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TheDeadlyShoe posted:That's lazy as all hell and bad film making. We don't actually need to keep things consistent or make sense, the audience should just always assume things make sense and proceed accordingly. Noone's asking for perfection. Even within the context of just TLJ they don't establish why they didn't kamikaze earlier. I mean they explicitly showed one of the other ship captains going down with his ship pointlessly! Their strategy at that point was different? The kamikaze decision is pretty clearly a last minute shift once the Vice Admiral realizes the FO is firing on the escape shuttles.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:08
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:e: It's a low loving bar to clear. All you have to do is establish the situation is exceptional for some reason. *ANY* reason. Uh the entire Resistance is moments away from being obliterated. Granted, the Rebels/Resistance do seem to find themselves in that fix a few times previous.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:08
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Edit dammnit
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Dec 19, 2017 16:08
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You know how I know this movie was good? Because people have very strong opinions about it and are passionate in their reactions.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:10
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tadashi posted:You know how I know this movie was good? Because people have very strong opinions about it and are passionate in their reactions. This a complete non-sequitur If they showed three hours of Luke hanging out with Porgs normal people would hate it and the fanboys would defend it as a “necessary departure from series norms”.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:14
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tadashi posted:You know how I know this movie was good? Because people have very strong opinions about it and are passionate in their reactions. I’m passionate that the script needed at least on more rewrite and the film a much better editor.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:15
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Let's say Rey busts out five lightsabers and murders everyone on the whole flagship once she gets on there. Why didn't she do this earlier? What the hell's going on? Oh, nm, the audience should just assume that she didn't do it earlier because of unexplained reasons that do, I assure you, make sense. Also, no need to discuss this with anyone or mention things as a possibility. Movies should just be nonstop montages of unexplained cool explosion scenes. Ship cannons were trained on the fleeing transports because they decided the cruiser was an empty vessel, didn't have time to reacquire and stop it in time. It's in the text.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:16
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kidkissinger posted:This a complete non-sequitur Nah, people would run out of things to talk about in that movie pretty quick. People are going to be talking about this movie for a long time.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:17
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quote:If this is what you're taking away from this discussion you're being incredibly disingenuous The way you're using it, you could C+P that in response to any critical point made about any aspect of any movie ever. Useless. I never criticized the 'events'. "The Rebels destroy the pursuing fleet" is a plot point and one they could have achieved lots of ways. Hyperspace kamikaze is actually a good one! I loved the art of it. The problem is that the writing did absolutely no work whatsoever to support it. It's like making a monster movie where a guy pulls out a gun and shoots the monster at the end. He had the gun all along, it woulda worked all along, and its never explained why the didn't just shoot the monster earlier. It makes the monster a paper tiger whose threat is entirely superficial, being treated as serious by the characters because they are required to treat as serious rather than as a consequence of the course of events. It undermines the plot by opening it up to question. It undermines characters by making them look stupid. I made fun of Leia's Space Twitter plan earlier but I don't actually have any objections to that being what happened. It fits with Leia's character and it could plausibly either work or not. In a film with a different tone you could have had Admiral Ackbar (heretofore absent) jump in and help save the day. They *specifically* make the point during the movie that they can't just radio the whole galaxy with their cruiser, they need special equipment. You're the one saying they didn't need to do this. You're the one saying they should fly to the base and use the radio there without ever explaining why they couldn't radio from the ship. Because, apparently, it shouldn't be necessary for the writers to establish that. e: quote:Ship cannons were trained on the fleeing transports because they decided the cruiser was an empty vessel, didn't have time to reacquire and stop it in time. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 16:17
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tadashi posted:You know how I know this movie was good? Because people have very strong opinions about it and are passionate in their reactions. You can also tell it's good because it's really easy to defend it just using the text. I'd say the majority of criticisms ITT have come from people simply not noticing pretty obvious stuff. Maybe they're on their phones during the movie?
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Dec 19, 2017 16:19
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Waffles Inc. posted:Movies are not documentaries, there is no talking head military expert who is going to appear and say, "it was at that moment with the holdo maneuver that we realized we could just create junker ships to shoot at enemies" Like I said in my post, I don't care. I was just pointing out that not every scenario has to jump to Al Qaeda. It was a cool scene as far as I care
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Dec 19, 2017 16:20
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quote:Let me put it another way: why was no one calling for the rebel alliance to use their fighters as kamikaze death weapons after a single A-Wing destroys a super star destroyer?
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Dec 19, 2017 16:21
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Outside of the text I presume if the cannons had fired on the cruiser it would have broken up and not caused damage. Perhaps thats why its not a common tactic. I've seen people who thought rose died so its always possible people miss things and thats okay.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:21
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Penpal posted:What anime did Rian crib the visual language of the suicide jump from? It's so reminiscent of something I've seen before but I can't put my finger on it. When I saw it I thought it was excellent, but I had and still have the biggest sense of deja vu re: the light branching out and three different angles in a silent second
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Dec 19, 2017 16:22
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A question to people who're nitpicking the hyperspace kamikaze. What was going through your mind as you saw it in the movie?
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Dec 19, 2017 16:24
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thrawn527 posted:Nah, people would run out of things to talk about in that movie pretty quick. People are going to be talking about this movie for a long time. Packing a movie to the gills with incoherent crap isn’t really an improvement here
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Dec 19, 2017 16:25
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Yes, after they spent half of the movie establishing the cruiser was out of range. I really dislike discussing granular-ly like this because I can already see how the argument is going to continue to get smaller, but the cruiser was in range at the time of the scene, it had to turn around before it accelerated. They focused their fire elsewhere and it cost them.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:25
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That's not how hyperspace works !!!
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Dec 19, 2017 16:26
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Mr. Flunchy posted:A question to people who're nitpicking the hyperspace kamikaze. What was going through your mind as you saw it in the movie?
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Dec 19, 2017 16:26
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kidkissinger posted:If they showed three hours of Luke hanging out with Porgs normal people would hate it and the fanboys would defend it as a “necessary departure from series norms”. If it was shot like a documentary and narrated by Attenborough that'd be a great film.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:26
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Mr. Flunchy posted:You can also tell it's good because it's really easy to defend it just using the text. I'd say the majority of criticisms ITT have come from people simply not noticing pretty obvious stuff. Maybe they're on their phones during the movie? I really only see people who don't seem to like the plot and keep notching things up to "Writing!" or "Editing!". As far as the suicide plot goes, maybe this clears things up in terms of how that progressed as a strategy: 1. From early on, there was a secret plot among the leadership to get close to the planet with the Rebel base then stealthily sneak away to the planet while someone pilots the last ship until it runs out of fuel. The less people know about it, the better because: 2. Oh gently caress, somebody on the FO Star Destroyer betrayed the Resistance, told the FO the secret plan so now they're firing on the escape ships so something drastic needs to happen to save them. tadashi fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 16:27
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Schwarzwald posted:If it was shot like a documentary and narrated by Attenborough that'd be a great film. Don’t get me wrong, it would be head and shoulders better than the actual movie
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Dec 19, 2017 16:27
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Sharkopath posted:I really dislike discussing granular-ly like this because I can already see how the argument is going to continue to get smaller, but the cruiser was in range at the time of the scene, it had to turn around before it accelerated. They focused their fire elsewhere and it cost them. I'm not nitpicking some detail of VFX. The cruiser being out of range is a major plot point. If the ship's coming back to where Snope's ship can blow it up, it should be established as a plot point rather than assumed.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:28
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A Terrence Malick film set on Ach two involving the porgs, Luke and the unrequited love of the a caretaker nurse would own.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:29
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Can someone explain what the gently caress happened with Luke at the end. Like, did he die in that explosion at the tree and was just sixth sensing us the rest of the movie? For a fantasy adventure movie, at a bare minimum I’d like to be able to comprehend what the gently caress I watched.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:29
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kidkissinger posted:Can someone explain what the gently caress happened with Luke at the end. Lol are you fake posting.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:30
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:I'm not nitpicking some detail of VFX. The cruiser being out of range is a major plot point. If the ship's coming back to where Snope's ship can blow it up, it should be established as a plot point rather than assumed. Theres a dialogue line where they announce that even though it's in range, the ship is empty and isnt worth firing on now that they can get shots on the transports. It's established in dialogue, pacing, and visually that they made a mistake only targeting the transports and the cruiser is now turning around to destroy them and they can't stop it in time.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:31
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kidkissinger posted:Can someone explain what the gently caress happened with Luke at the end. Why wouldn't the most obvious explanation be the best and easiest one? Sharkopath posted:Theres a dialogue line where they announce that even though it's in range, the ship is empty and isnt worth firing on now that they can get shots on the transports. "There goes another one." "Hold your fire. There's no life-forms..." tadashi fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 16:31
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kidkissinger posted:Can someone explain what the gently caress happened with Luke at the end. Luke exploded and then was reborn as a porg
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Dec 19, 2017 16:32
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:I was surprised. I thought Holdo was going to try to block the shots as a different form of self sacrifice. I thought it was a cool explosion. I thought pretty much the same. It was shocking, awe-inspiring and perfectly cinematically executed. It had a huge emotional wallop. Why would you want to tinker with that moment by overexplaining it or spoiling the surprise (or worse, changing it so it simply didn't happen at all because it's apparently implausible by the rules of the fictional universe)?
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Dec 19, 2017 16:32
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euphronius posted:Lol are you fake posting. Did he just die from exhaustion? If he did then why bother having him not actually be there. Why not just have him properly Obi-wan out?
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Dec 19, 2017 16:32
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kidkissinger posted:Can someone explain what the gently caress happened with Luke at the end. He did a crazy force projection thing that drained him and he passed on, is what I thought. A cool thing is that his projection was so powerful it changed the lighting of the salt planet to the sunset of his island home. The force binding and connecting, etc etc.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:32
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Mr. Flunchy posted:A question to people who're nitpicking the hyperspace kamikaze. What was going through your mind as you saw it in the movie? A was a bit agog at the effect, which was awesome, followed very quickly by "that was cool but why don't they just do it all the time?" Another fix-in-one-line-of-dialog for me, though. Have someone on the Empire side earlier during the chase say something about 'they can't even target us so we dropped all our shields to save gas.' Then maybe you could even have a last panicked "Shields u--" before it hits.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:34
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The entire sequence of every AT-AT shooting him is so dumb and devoid of tension. Why is this movie trying so hard to be a matrix sequel.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:34
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kidkissinger posted:Did he just die from exhaustion? Both happened imho. Exhaustion and joined the force because all of his knots were finally untied. Are you also asking why he didn't travel to The Salt planet?
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Dec 19, 2017 16:34
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Are you asking why they don't choose to blow up their capital ships all the time ?
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Dec 19, 2017 16:35
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kidkissinger posted:Can someone explain what the gently caress happened with Luke at the end. This one really isn't had to figure out. Like, there can be some question on whether or not he was overexerted from the force projection and dying, or if he just decided it was time to ascend and did just that (like how Obi-Wan didn't actually die, because Vader's blade never hit him, he ascended right before he would die). Which is fine, btw, and is just creating fun discussions and some open-endedness, not being incoherent. But to not even figure out that it's one of these is you really having a hard time paying attention to what is in front of you. What the hell would make you think he died at the tree? Nothing in the movie says this is happening.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:35
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:I made fun of Leia's Space Twitter plan earlier but I don't actually have any objections to that being what happened. It fits with Leia's character and it could plausibly either work or not. In a film with a different tone you could have had Admiral Ackbar (heretofore absent) jump in and help save the day. They *specifically* make the point during the movie that they can't just radio the whole galaxy with their cruiser, they need special equipment. You're the one saying they didn't need to do this. You're the one saying they should fly to the base and use the radio there without ever explaining why they couldn't radio from the ship. Because, apparently, it shouldn't be necessary for the writers to establish that. You're again doing a thing where you're creating fanfiction and then wondering why it wasn't in the movie. Furthermore, you're now suggesting that what I'm saying is that, what, all explanations be removed from the movie? The truth is that the movie explains the events that are unfolding, even if that explanation is counter to the plot or what characters say. For instance, it's clear that Holdo's "cloaking devices" were fake and that she had placed her trust in a ruse, since it's clear that the ships never cloak and never uncloak. Similarly, the fact that the other rebel ships do not kamikaze but Holdo does suggests that she alone has this special power in some capacity. You're interested in writing fanfiction while there are people interested in discussing what actually happened in the movie. I'm sorry TheDeadlyShoe but admiral ackbar is not Holdo and he did not jump in and help save the day. It didn't happen and it never will
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Dec 19, 2017 16:36
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It's a lot easier to sell Force-based projections in a movie where that has already happened than it is to sell the idea that Luke somehow snuck past all of the First Order into that cave.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:36
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kidkissinger posted:Did he just die from exhaustion? He did Obi-wan out, his body disappeared and he just left his robes. Also I like the lil' porg fellas they ain't bad
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Dec 19, 2017 16:36
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