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WampaLord posted:People seem to rarely consider the opportunity cost he gave up in pursuing bipartisan compromise. If he had done some of this stuff (particularly prosecuting Wall Street), who knows where we might be right now. Yeah, in all likelihood he would have faced less Congressional opposition over time, since the 2010 and 2014 losses would have been minimized.
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Dec 19, 2017 19:43
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WampaLord posted:People seem to rarely consider the opportunity cost he gave up in pursuing bipartisan compromise. If he had done some of this stuff (particularly prosecuting Wall Street), who knows where we might be right now. Incidentally the new tax bill really fucks Wall Street over. Trump: Accidental socialist? https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/18/business/dealbook/tax-bill-wealthy.html
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Dec 19, 2017 19:43
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Koalas March posted:My guess: Trump would still be elected on a wave of white rage, and they'd still be rolling back everything Obama's ever done. I dunno, if concrete advances had been made to address poo poo like voter suppression he might not have been elected.
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Dec 19, 2017 19:45
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Koalas March posted:My guess: Trump would still be elected on a wave of white rage, and they'd still be rolling back everything Obama's ever done. This seems pessimistic as hell. I think pretty much everyone would have appreciated seeing some bankers get heavily hosed for dooming the economy.
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Dec 19, 2017 19:45
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Kilroy posted:It's not impossible for a cisgender straight white male to be a champion of progressive causes, but it sure as hell decreases the odds. It only decreases the odds if you treat racial groups as ideological monoliths. Instead of toying with race essentialism and "jokes" about genocide, what if we voted for people who were good, instead of people who were bad?
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Dec 19, 2017 19:46
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WampaLord posted:This seems pessimistic as hell. I think pretty much everyone would have appreciated seeing some bankers get heavily hosed for dooming the economy. Nah yts would still be mad. Trust. I mean, can you really blame a black person for being pessimistic about this country? It fucks us at every turn. Obama was our first big "win" since the 60s and even that barely counts and now the country threw a fit because he was elected in the first place. I legit suggest reading the piece on Trump being America's "first white President" if anyone hasn't already. Ironically I'm pretty sure it was written by Coates.
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Dec 19, 2017 19:50
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Typical Pubbie posted:It only decreases the odds if you treat racial groups as ideological monoliths. Who was joking about genocide
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Dec 19, 2017 19:51
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WampaLord posted:People seem to rarely consider the opportunity cost he gave up in pursuing bipartisan compromise. If he had done some of this stuff (particularly prosecuting Wall Street), who knows where we might be right now. We still would have had racist backlash, but the younger voters who swept him into office in 2010 would have been more engaged and willing to vote in 2010. Also he would have had to have kept his campaign apparatus intact after the election and used it to help dems in those midterms.
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Dec 19, 2017 19:54
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Koalas March posted:Nah yts would still be mad. Trust. I completely agree with that piece but i feel comfortable saying that if the banks and the rich had been taken down a peg it could have been one of the dozens of things that prevented Trump from happening.
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Dec 19, 2017 19:56
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Koalas March posted:I legit suggest reading the piece on Trump being America's "first white President" if anyone hasn't already. Ironically I'm pretty sure it was written by Coates. I got you. Read this, folks.
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Dec 19, 2017 19:58
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Koalas March posted:Nah yts would still be mad. Trust. No of course I can't blame you for that, but I still think there was a massive opportunity to be had and it's a shame he passed it up.
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Dec 19, 2017 19:59
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The Tea Party movement was astroturfed as all hell and so the rich would have put a lot more money into their fake-populist tea party.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:01
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Koalas March posted:My guess: Trump would still be elected on a wave of white rage, and they'd still be rolling back everything Obama's ever done. I have to disagree here. If Obama had done popular poo poo from the get-go, you'd most likely have seen better results in 2010, most critically on the state level, which is where the real GOP cheating and voter suppression takes place. There's a definite knock-on effect at play here.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:02
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Koalas March posted:Nah yts would still be mad. Trust. I don't blame liberals for being pessimistic when their leaders refuse to fight for them. Koalas March posted:Who was joking about genocide It's hilarious that you don't remember this happening.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:05
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Instant Sunrise posted:The Tea Party movement was astroturfed as all hell and so the rich would have put a lot more money into their fake-populist tea party. I think any more money into the Tea Party would have been diminishing returns. They did their job of creating the lie that there was a populist movement of conservatives that only angry about how Obama specifically ruined their lives (ignoring that they started up the minute he was inaugurated) and the media was more than happy to artificially inflate their numbers by taking selective shots and writing articles about them and their totally sincere concerns constantly. There wasn't much more they could ask for than that since they reached the point of saturation where you bought into it or understood what they were REALLY angry about.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:06
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Typical Pubbie posted:
i think she saying that the calls for genocide weren't a joke, they were in earnest. speaking for myself, this is true. i am unironically in support of white genocide
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Dec 19, 2017 20:08
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Typical Pubbie posted:It only decreases the odds if you treat racial groups as ideological monoliths. Nah, cisgender white straight dudes are unreliable allies not because of race essentialism but because we are by definition privileged people who do not view the problems of marginalized people in a fully textured way. Sorry you're salty about that but it's true, and it takes literal conscious effort to avoid implicit bias. Also "actually we should vote for people based on merit  " is just world theory nonsense, if we don't actively seek out and put forward minority candidates we'll invariably trend towards less minority representation because white privilege and patriarchy exist my dude.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:09
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That's why I put genocide in scare quotes.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:10
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Typical Pubbie posted:I don't blame liberals for being pessimistic when their leaders refuse to fight for them. Are you talking about way back with people who aren't even participating in this specific conversation?? Post the quotes for context.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:10
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Calibanibal posted:i think she saying that the calls for genocide weren't a joke, they were in earnest. speaking for myself, this is true. i am unironically in support of white genocide You are so edgy you could write for South Park.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:11
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RuanGacho posted:I completely agree with that piece but i feel comfortable saying that if the banks and the rich had been taken down a peg it could have been one of the dozens of things that prevented Trump from happening. first thought: yes second thought: not necessarily in a way that would've lowered his angry white people numbers. Calibanibal posted:i think she saying that the calls for genocide weren't a joke, they were in earnest. speaking for myself, this is true. i am unironically in support of white genocide I mean I'm not saying I'm for white genocide I'm just saying that at the end of the day and even in the best case utopian scenario y'all still gonna be here exploiting the land you stole from my ancestors. just saying.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:12
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Lightning Knight posted:Nah, cisgender white straight dudes are unreliable allies not because of race essentialism but because we are by definition privileged people who do not view the problems of marginalized people in a fully textured way. Sorry you're salty about that but it's true, and it takes literal conscious effort to avoid implicit bias. Hmm, yes, white men can't view the problems of marginalized people in a textured way. That's why I support people who stand by as a cabal of truly vile and heartless people loot the whole drat planet. Also, no one is saying we shouldn't actively search out POC candidates holy poo poo
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Dec 19, 2017 20:12
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Koalas March posted:Yes, I, the privileged queer black woman who lives in the rust belt, in Detroit no less, in a black suburb, below the poverty level does not give a gently caress about black wealth. You need to either stop using this as a dumb cudgel or tell me how many guapcoins you invested in 😂😂😂 I wonder if you'd want Obama as president for life if you were the child of a deported immigrant I don't know why you're cheering on a man (ok I do, the color of his skin) who has eviscerated minority communities across the country but being a member of the media and relatively informed I can only assume you're in a position where you didn't feel those impacts. Or maybe you really do think Obama could have done nothing to save the thousands of families who got foreclosed on for being defrauded by the banks. Either was it's pretty sad and a pretty bad take imo.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:12
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When all the ytes r ded who will make make syrup? A future of dry pancakes is no future at all.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:13
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What is yter?
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Dec 19, 2017 20:13
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BarbarianElephant posted:You are so edgy you could write for South Park. thanks
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Dec 19, 2017 20:14
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WampaLord posted:What is yter? youtuber
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Dec 19, 2017 20:14
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Typical Pubbie posted:Hmm, yes, white men can't view the problems of marginalized people in a textured way. That's why I support people who stand by as a cabal of truly vile and heartless people loot the whole drat planet. What? What does that have to do with what Kilroy said? Any time anyone brings up "we should focus on making sure we have minority candidates and representation in progressive movements/socialism" it is immediately met with "but why can't we just focus on having good candidates?  " as if these things are mutually exclusive, or that there aren't literally tens of thousands of progressive/socialist minorities who could and would run for office, or that somehow tons of white dudes won't still find their way into government just fine.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:15
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lotta fragility itt
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Dec 19, 2017 20:15
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Koalas March posted:https://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com/dr-cornel-west-seems-to-believe-ta-nehisi-coates-is-wr-1821393317 Thank you for providing these pieces. They have been very illuminating. I have limited grounds to criticize Coates or West, for their disputes is tied in a black American experience in which I am not a part. But one thing I would like to say is that I am dismayed by the personal nature by which West addresses Coates’ arguments in his Guardian article and the personal nature in which others have subsequently denounced West. Neither person make perfect messengers, but their ideas are valuable outside whatever imperfections they might have. Much in the same way that Nikita Khrushchev was an imperfect messenger, but the Secret Speech has value.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:16
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WampaLord posted:What is yter? yt, as in whitey. So, "whiter." It's a black twitter meme.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:16
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Koalas March posted:lotta fragility itt you mean like just writing off a prolific black thinker because he had the balls to criticize Obama? Koalas March posted:I've had problems with West for awhile (going back to his criticisms of Obama) and after this poo poo I'm done.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:16
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Koalas March posted:lotta fragility itt 
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Dec 19, 2017 20:16
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jesus this thread is a cancer.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:17
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Lightning Knight posted:What? What does that have to do with what Kilroy said? "but don't you get it? a poc made an off the cuff comment/joke and was venting about making Obama emperor for life. WE CAN NOT LET THAT STAND. also I, a yt, care more about minority issues than you because of a shitpost you, a poc, made on the internet" - yts itt
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Dec 19, 2017 20:17
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Lightning Knight posted:yt, as in whitey. So, "whiter." It's a black twitter meme. Ohhhhhhhhhh, that makes sense finally.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:18
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go cry more about white genocide dude
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Dec 19, 2017 20:18
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self unaware posted:you mean like just writing off a prolific black thinker because he had the balls to criticize Obama? It's almost like context matters and the specific criticism that bothers a lot of black people was West explicitly asserting that Obama isn't black (enough) because of his unique background, and otherwise questioning his black identity, which is a sore spot for a lot of black people and tied up in a lot of black intellectual/political debate historically. No Butt Stuff posted:jesus this thread is a cancer. agreed
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Dec 19, 2017 20:18
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Whoa lk is a white dude?BarbarianElephant posted:You are so edgy you could write for South Park. Calib is great, his jokes are always really dry and they make me laugh.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:19
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Lightning Knight posted:It's almost like context matters and the specific criticism that bothers a lot of black people was West explicitly asserting that Obama isn't black (enough) because of his unique background, and otherwise questioning his black identity, which is a sore spot for a lot of black people and tied up in a lot of black intellectual/political debate historically. actually saying you're done with cornell west because he critisized TNC and obama is pretty much the definition of fragility especially considering his history and contributions
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Dec 19, 2017 20:21
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