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This happened yesterday, seems like English speaking international media is not paying much attention to it, but the Venezuelan government voided the passports of 130 kids who were in Maiquetia yesterday, as part of a humanitarian mission by an NGO to reunite them with their parents in Peru. They literally left the kids stranded in the airport and arrested the 4 women who were handling the whole thing and who were authorized to fly them there. The justification so far seems to be that it is apparently illegal for minors to fly out without a legal guardian, the thing is, all of them had notarized permits from at least one of their parents allowing them to travel with the NGO workers. This is a well known procedure, going to summer camps abroad was very common back in the day, that requires the exact same permit and never resulted in kids being stranded on an airport, so it's all bullshit.
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Dec 17, 2017 11:01
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fnox posted:This happened yesterday, seems like English speaking international media is not paying much attention to it, but the Venezuelan government voided the passports of 130 kids who were in Maiquetia yesterday, as part of a humanitarian mission by an NGO to reunite them with their parents in Peru. No, but Venezuelan hospitals made front page again today: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/17/world/americas/venezuela-children-starving.html Also that car overpass in the first photo looks flimsy as gently caress. Edit: After having read the article, god drat it's depressing. Venezuela looks like it's set to become the world's largest concentration camp. Saladman fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Dec 17, 2017 |
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Dec 17, 2017 12:55
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fnox posted:This happened yesterday, seems like English speaking international media is not paying much attention to it, but the Venezuelan government voided the passports of 130 kids who were in Maiquetia yesterday, as part of a humanitarian mission by an NGO to reunite them with their parents in Peru. They literally left the kids stranded in the airport and arrested the 4 women who were handling the whole thing and who were authorized to fly them there. I'm hearing that some 13 of the permits where fake, which is why they were stopped. This introduces a couple of questions: 1) If 13 of them where fake, what about the remainder of the children? 2) Under what capacity are they fake? It's no secret that the quickest and easiest way (as in, the only way at all) of getting any form of document in Venezuela is through bribery. Did they do that and it just so happened to be that whomever processed it was lazy and didn't go the extra mile to make the documents "genuine"? The NGO people are under arrest, which would to a certain extent answer question 1 (apparently it's down's syndrome children or something to that effect, which may trigger some exceptions), but no word on 2. Don't think we'll ever get that answer. P.S. Anyone know anything new on the Petro?
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Dec 17, 2017 18:56
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That's Tarek William Saab saying that there were fake permits. Still, the NGO claims they didn't actually handle any of the permits, those were handled by the parents, and knowing how things work there, it's very likely that they had to pay someone to even get this filed, which is where the supposed errors could have come from. In any case, it makes no sense to prevent all 130 children from leaving the country.
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Dec 18, 2017 00:04
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https://twitter.com/ReutersVzla/status/942548716925411329 Guess the Russians have stopped taking IOUs.
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Dec 18, 2017 02:12
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Fallen Hamprince posted:https://twitter.com/ReutersVzla/status/942548716925411329 As a dictator it's important to line the pockets of the friends you are expecting to either help you massacre your people or provide you safe haven when you flee. Plus it'd gently caress over any new government by giving Russia some major leverage over them.
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Dec 18, 2017 04:19
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So I hear everything is cool and fine in Venezuela, unlike what this evil propaganda story from the New York Times says. Is it true what this friend of a friend says, that "Isayen Herrera, who co-authored this, writes for one of the leading fascist papers in Venezuela"?
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Dec 18, 2017 13:51
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Absurd Alhazred posted:So I hear everything is cool and fine in Venezuela, unlike what this evil propaganda story from the New York Times says. I can’t tell if you’re serious or not, but no she is a writer for El Nacional which, if someone considers it fascist, is so outlandishly bullshit you should probably stop calling them a friend. I really hope you’re missing a /s tag, but with idiots like Borneo Jimmy and Homework Explainer in this forum it’s really hard to tell. Saladman fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 15:19
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Attorney General Tarek William Saab got into a Twitter fight over the weekend that makes Donald Trump look like a Nobel Prize winner. A Twitter user named Esteban Gerbasi replied to one of Saab's tweets about the detention of the 130 children who were on their way to see their parents in Peru on Friday. Gerbasi called Saab "garbage from hell", to which Saab replied: https://twitter.com/TarekWiliamSaab/status/942194077294096384 quote:Coward... come here and say that threat that you've written from some toilet in Miami so I can split your face in two. Another Twitter user replied to Saab's threat, asking if it constituted a violation of Venezuela's strict hate speech laws. Saab replied:  quote:No buddy, a duel so I can beat the poo poo out of a coward who threatens me from abroad through Twitter is just that. Let him defend his threat to my face on a public sidewalk. Absurd Alhazred posted:So I hear everything is cool and fine in Venezuela, unlike what this evil propaganda story from the New York Times says. One interesting thing to note is that De Zayas says that there is no humanitarian crisis, but he admits that "there are shortages, scarcity, and distribution delays, etc.”. In other words, everything that the opposition has been saying for years now about medicine, food, and infrastructure deficiencies is in fact true, but there's no humanitarian crisis. This sounds like a definitional issue. The UN is a huge bureaucracy largely in the business of ordering a world that has no order. You don't have to look very hard for examples of the UN failing to recognize some crisis, or deciding to take action only when it is too late. To add to what Saladman said, El Nacional is a Venezuelan institution. It's the largest independent newspaper in the country still in existence. What your friend of a friend is doing is exactly what Trump does when he yells "FAKE NEWS!". When you discredit the source, you don't have to think about the content. Does this friend of a friend dispute anything in the article? What about the other author, Meridith Kohut? Is she a fascist, too? Does this friend of a friend dispute the fact that the article took five months of research to put together? That it involved speaking to doctors in 21 public hospitals? Does this friend of a friend dispute the images or the stories in the article? If so, how? Waving your hand and saying "This is a fascist newspaper/author/publication/FAKE NEWS" is the easiest way to make things you don't agree with disappear.
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Dec 18, 2017 17:14
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That attorney general acts just like a neonazi thug. Promptly resorts to physical violence.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:21
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I already imagine Saab has a mouth full of gold theath and a set of brass knuckles in his jacket if he is acting like that.
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Dec 19, 2017 03:03
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Saladman posted:I can’t tell if you’re serious or not, but no she is a writer for El Nacional which, if someone considers it fascist, is so outlandishly bullshit you should probably stop calling them a friend. Sorry if the sarcasm wasn't obvious. And not only is HomeEx in this forum, he's now a mod.  Chuck Boone posted:One interesting thing to note is that De Zayas says that there is no humanitarian crisis, but he admits that "there are shortages, scarcity, and distribution delays, etc.”. In other words, everything that the opposition has been saying for years now about medicine, food, and infrastructure deficiencies is in fact true, but there's no humanitarian crisis. This sounds like a definitional issue. The UN is a huge bureaucracy largely in the business of ordering a world that has no order. You don't have to look very hard for examples of the UN failing to recognize some crisis, or deciding to take action only when it is too late. Thanks for the details! I mean, she used to be my Facebook friend before I got tired of her for exactly this type of guilelessly assimilating anti-"Imperialist" propaganda, if I recall correctly (it's been years). My remaining friend is still not a lost cause, I hope. My immediate response was "should we take the word of a UN functionary who went over there for a visit or a 5-month expose following 21 hospitals?". She hasn't responded yet, we'll see how it goes.
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Dec 19, 2017 03:32
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At approximately 2:30 AM yesterday morning, an unknown number of men in uniform approached a National Guard headquarters near Los Teques, Miranda state. The men were dressed in black uniforms and wore DGCIM patches that identified them as members of the army's counterintelligence unit. The men told the National Guard soldiers on duty at the front door that they were executing a search warrant on the premises, and the soldiers let the men in. Once inside, the men subdued the soldiers inside the headquarters, tying their hands and placing them kneeling in a room. The men then proceeded to steal 26 AK-103 rifles and 108 magazines, as well as three 9 mm pistols and 67 9 mm bullets. Before making their exit, the attackers spray painted "ART. 350" and "LIBERTAD 350" on the walls of the headquarters. The "350" in the graffiti is in reference to article 350 of the Constitution, which establishes the duty to rebel against tyrannical rule. Yesterday, Oscar Perez took responsibility for the attack on the headquarters. You might remember Perez as the renegade police officer the man who commandeered a helicopter to throw grenades and shoot at several government buildings in Caracas in late June. The video below shows some of the graffiti on the headquarters's walls. The video was taken either by Perez himself or one of his men: https://twitter.com/EquilibrioGV/status/942869527561244673 This YouTube video shows the operation as it took place. In the video, you can see Perez's men clearing the headquarters, subduing soldiers, stepping on pictures of Chavez and Maduro, and carrying off equipment. Here is the video, along with my translation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMJyzeyBUFY quote:
Absurd Alhazred posted:Thanks for the details! I mean, she used to be my Facebook friend before I got tired of her for exactly this type of guilelessly assimilating anti-"Imperialist" propaganda, if I recall correctly (it's been years). My remaining friend is still not a lost cause, I hope. My immediate response was "should we take the word of a UN functionary who went over there for a visit or a 5-month expose following 21 hospitals?". She hasn't responded yet, we'll see how it goes. No worries. The other thing to consider is that the two arguments may be true at the same time. It may be the case that there is no humanitarian crisis in Venezuela according to a strict UN definition, and also that there's a tremendous amount of suffering caused by the corruption and mismanagement of the Maduro regime which is directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds or thousands of people each year. Keep in mind that some of humanity's worst crimes (the Rwandan genocide and the Srebrenica massacre to name just two) happened while the UN twiddled its thumbs. A tragedy is still a tragedy even if it doesn't have the UN's seal of authenticity.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:48
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Perez is doing a good job making himself out to seem like a real-life Batman.
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Dec 19, 2017 18:48
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Saladman posted:Perez is doing a good job making himself out to seem like a real-life Batman. He's either going to be executed or become a future leader of Venezuela at this point.
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Dec 19, 2017 21:58
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Yeah, that video is pretty remarkable. Perez is obviously doing a good job at evading the authorities. I remember that on June 27 (I said in an earlier post that it was the 28th--it was the 27th) when he stole that helicopter and started throwing grenades at the Supreme Court building, the country was frozen. Remember that this was at the height of the anti-government protests. People didn't know how to make sense of what was happening. Perez wanted to start a nation-wide insurrection, but the helicopter attack was such a bizarre chapter in this sad story that people genuinely didn't know what to think or how to react. There were even rumours that Perez was part of a government ploy to force the opposition leadership to join his insurrection so that they could then be eliminated as violent coupists. Perez has been relatively quiet in recent weeks, but he's put out a handful of YouTube videos since June. I think it's clear from the video that he's still trying to start an insurrection. The fact that he lectured the captured soldiers about how it's their duty to rebel against the regime makes that clear, I think. I wonder when we'll see him next...
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Dec 19, 2017 22:08
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The fact that he's evaded capture kind of does make it seem like he must have some support within the armed forces or something, but if there's a sizable amount of support for him you'd think they'd just overthrow the government already. That whole situation just seems bizarre, and I don't blame people for having conspiracy theories about what's going on there at all.
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Dec 19, 2017 22:25
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Sinteres posted:The fact that he's evaded capture kind of does make it seem like he must have some support within the armed forces or something, but if there's a sizable amount of support for him you'd think they'd just overthrow the government already. That whole situation just seems bizarre, and I don't blame people for having conspiracy theories about what's going on there at all. A lot of Venezuelan posters have described how effectively the Chavez and Maduro administrations cultivated the support of the army and other instruments of the state through patronage. However that kind of graft also has the side-effect of degrading these organizations usefulness when they are needed to face outside threats. When promotion is decided by ideology or personal relationships, it degrades professionalism. When soldiers and police earn their living by shaking down grocery stores or smuggling, they have less interest in the hard-work of intelligence gathering needed to detect anti-government groups like that headed by Oscar Perez. This is one reason dictatorships will often appear most secure just before the fall, as the delicately balanced system of fear and graft holding the system together collapses. Perez is playing a very savvy media game if nothing else. The way he emphasizes that he stands with the army while promising to violently stand against the colectivos is some deft rhetoric. I'm not sure of what to make of his religious statements. Venezuelans, do they have any obvious political connotations to you? Thus far we haven't seen much evidence that he has any substantial backing. I counted five men including Perez in the video. Clearly they have plenty of arms now, but what are they going to do with them? If Perez wants a national uprising I suspect he will have to organize it himself, and that's going to require his movement to scale up a lot from here, which will inevitably lead to bloody encounters with the police and army.
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Dec 20, 2017 03:09
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Chuck Boone posted:At approximately 2:30 AM yesterday morning, an unknown number of men in uniform approached a National Guard headquarters near Los Teques, Miranda state. The men were dressed in black uniforms and wore DGCIM patches that identified them as members of the army's counterintelligence unit. The men told the National Guard soldiers on duty at the front door that they were executing a search warrant on the premises, and the soldiers let the men in.  quote:No worries. The other thing to consider is that the two arguments may be true at the same time. It may be the case that there is no humanitarian crisis in Venezuela according to a strict UN definition, and also that there's a tremendous amount of suffering caused by the corruption and mismanagement of the Maduro regime which is directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds or thousands of people each year. Keep in mind that some of humanity's worst crimes (the Rwandan genocide and the Srebrenica massacre to name just two) happened while the UN twiddled its thumbs. A tragedy is still a tragedy even if it doesn't have the UN's seal of authenticity. Yeah, I can see that. I imagine this same person would be all about how corrupt the UN was if it were about a regime she didn't have a vested interest in apologizing for.
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Dec 20, 2017 03:19
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Yeah, I can see that. I imagine this same person would be all about how corrupt the UN was if it were about a regime she didn't have a vested interest in apologizing for. Bingo. The United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights has been very vocal in his condemnation of the Maduro regime's brutal repression of political dissent all year, and that's pretty much how regime supporters have brushed him off.
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Dec 20, 2017 04:46
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Chuck Boone posted:Bingo. The United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights has been very vocal in his condemnation of the Maduro regime's brutal repression of political dissent all year, and that's pretty much how regime supporters have brushed him off. LOL that's going to be fun to bring up if she ever does bother responding.
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Dec 20, 2017 04:48
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Squalid posted:Venezuelans, do they have any obvious political connotations to you? Chavez used to make mention of Jesus in his speeches. I don't think he did it often (don't really remember, to be honest), but when he did he really went to town with it. At some point this lead to his wandering jews comment, which can be most charitably described as "peculiar". Then after his death we had someone (Maduro, I think) announce that Chavez would be doing some reforms up in heaven (yeah, really) and rosaries with Chavez' face began popping up. Chavez statues also began being sold in santería type stores; and then there was the whole Maduro/bird incident, where Chavez possessed a bird to communicate with Maduro. I'm not sure what I'm trying to communicate with this post. I guess it's that religion is not entirely and completely separate from at least Chavista politics, but I don't know how to make a coherent point with the information I have provided.
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Dec 20, 2017 11:01
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Furia posted:Chavez used to make mention of Jesus in his speeches. I don't think he did it often (don't really remember, to be honest), but when he did he really went to town with it. At some point this lead to his wandering jews comment, which can be most charitably described as "peculiar". Religion was a big part of his speech for a while, until he had some arguments with the Venezuelan church representatives. He used to carry a cross necklace and take it out, kiss it and use it as a prop on his rants, back when he was trying to sell the new Constitution.
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Dec 20, 2017 12:01
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If the UN isn’t recognizing a humanitarian crisis, my best guess as to why would be that crises of this scale aren’t so out of the ordinary in countries similar to Venezuela. Like, in that horrifying NYT article about starving children, the acute problem was on one hand that there was specifically a serious shortage of baby formula and medical supplies, and on the other hand that poor people had access to so little food that their children are abandoning their families in search for more. This kind of deprivation is something that can be found in the poorest strata in a lot of places, but that media tends to pay attention to quite selectively, focusing on whichever country has the best-selling crisis porn available at the time. The political story in Venezuela is much more special, what with how political decisionmaking had made the effects of the dutch disease much worse (further reduced the relative profitability of investing in industry that would have made Venezuela more self-sufficient) and the ruling party has not managed the crisis proper any better (supporting demand with new money when it wasn’t profitable to answer the demand with increased production). And of course how they are going for a dictatorship in order to not lose power when they become unable to suppress people’s understanding of the scale of their failure. I don’t buy the common implication that they refused international aid because dictators are vain and will go to any lengths to conceal their failures though. Accusing them of that is like the oldest trick in the book to paint foreign leaders as cartoonishly evil, incomparable to the regular human kind of evil most of the leaders we tolerate are. PSUV likely were genuinely trying to avoid becoming a western neocolonial subject, hosed up, and are becoming a russo-chinese one instead, but have to keep on that track regardless of results because everyone else hates their guts now. And whatever strings are attached to possible aid, well, it’s not like any of the powerful countries have a habit of letting human suffering get in the way of strongarming nations into advantageous business deals.
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Dec 20, 2017 12:43
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Furia posted:the whole Maduro/bird incident, where Chavez possessed a bird to communicate with Maduro. I really want this part broken down further.
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Dec 20, 2017 17:08
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Furia posted:Chavez used to make mention of Jesus in his speeches. I don't think he did it often (don't really remember, to be honest), but when he did he really went to town with it. At some point this lead to his wandering jews comment, which can be most charitably described as "peculiar". No I see where you are going. Goofy religious stuff is just normal from aspiring politicians 
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Dec 20, 2017 17:16
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Just ate some christmas hallacas which was sad because every person involved in their making fled Venezuela in the past two years and never plan to return but very happy because holy moly they were delicious and so that knowledge will now be preserved.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:19
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Yesterday, the Constituent Assembly approved two measures that made headlines throughout the day. One measure restructured Caracas' administrative landscape, and the other took a step toward prohibiting opposition parties from participating in next year's presidential election. As you read on, please keep in mind that the in Venezuelan law Constituent Assemblies exist only to draft new constitutions, not to act as pseudo-legislatures because the government in power lost the legislative branch. The first measure dissolved the Metropolitan District of Caracas. Up until yesterday, Caracas was divided into four municipalities, which were all located inside the boundaries of the capital district. The five municipalities each have a mayor, and the capital district did as well. The last capital district mayor was Antonio Ledezma, who is a leading opposition figure who escaped regime custody in November. Ali Mansour, who was left running the capital district after Ledezma was arrested in 2015, says that the government did not notify the city government about the dissolution, and that approximately 5,000 workers at the city have no lost their jobs. The opposition reaction to the measure so far ranges from indignation over the arbitrariness of the dissolution to outrage, since some view the measure as the government literally erasing opposition political positions from the map. The second measure amends the requirements for political parties to participate in an election. The Constituent Assembly decided yesterday that in order for a political party to take part in a given election, it must have participated in the election immediately preceding it or else it must undergo an onerous and lengthy validation process. This is a direct response to Maduro's call on December 10 to ban any party that did not take part in the municipal election that day from participating in the presidential elections. The measure is complete nonsense even by Venezuela standards, since it in effect creates an obligation to participate in elections. It just so happens that the biggest opposition parties--Accion Democratica (AD), Voluntad Popular (VP) and Primero Justicia (PJ) decided to not participate in the December 10 municipal election. It looks like the Constituent Assembly couldn't bring itself to outright banning them from taking part in the presidential election, so they came up with this convoluted way of throwing more obstacles in their way in order to "reward and strengthen" political participation in elections, as Constituent Assembly president Delcy Rodriguez put it. Here's where things start to get really dumb: PJ is the party that is leading the highly controversial talks with the PSUV. The party has taken tons of flak from the rest of the opposition for its willingness to sit down with the regime. One of its negotiators, Luis Florido, said yesterday through his Twitter account that it was [url=http://www.el-nacional.com/noticias/politica/florido-paradojico-que-anc-anule-partidos-que-estamos-dialogo_216283"paradoxical"[/url] for the government to attack the opposition in this way--and PJ in particular--given their eagerness to negotiate. uncop posted:I don’t buy the common implication that they refused international aid because dictators are vain and will go to any lengths to conceal their failures though. Accusing them of that is like the oldest trick in the book to paint foreign leaders as cartoonishly evil, incomparable to the regular human kind of evil most of the leaders we tolerate are. PSUV likely were genuinely trying to avoid becoming a western neocolonial subject, hosed up, and are becoming a russo-chinese one instead, but have to keep on that track regardless of results because everyone else hates their guts now. And whatever strings are attached to possible aid, well, it’s not like any of the powerful countries have a habit of letting human suffering get in the way of strongarming nations into advantageous business deals. I think that this is a fair assessment of the matter, but I want to suggest a couple of points to complicate this take:
Barudak posted:Just ate some christmas hallacas which was sad because every person involved in their making fled Venezuela in the past two years and never plan to return but very happy because holy moly they were delicious and so that knowledge will now be preserved. Yes! We got our batch last week. I'm having my first one on Sunday!
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Dec 21, 2017 16:00
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Barudak posted:Just ate some christmas hallacas which was sad because every person involved in their making fled Venezuela in the past two years and never plan to return but very happy because holy moly they were delicious and so that knowledge will now be preserved. Here in Madrid you can now find Venezuelan restaurants loving EVERYWHERE. I have about 20 different ones that will deliver tequeños to my place, and just yesterday I went to the movies and the theater was offering tequeños alongside popcorns. It was a bit surreal. My English friend sent "neat" but I was flipping the gently caress out. TEQUEÑOS.
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Dec 21, 2017 17:27
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https://sputniknews.com/military/201704061052354294-su30-jets-venezuela-russia/
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Dec 21, 2017 21:51
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what on earth would they need fighter jets for other than paying off Russia to keep backing them, of course
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Dec 22, 2017 00:27
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The Venezuelan Air Force already has a bunch. The latest purchase was in 2015, half a billion for 12. IDK why the military wants them, they could fit way more cocaine in a bomber like the Su-34.
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Dec 22, 2017 00:36
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Hugoon Chavez posted:Here in Madrid you can now find Venezuelan restaurants loving EVERYWHERE. I have about 20 different ones that will deliver tequeños to my place, and just yesterday I went to the movies and the theater was offering tequeños alongside popcorns. It was a bit surreal. My English friend sent "neat" but I was flipping the gently caress out. TEQUEÑOS. I am extremely jealous of that movie theater.
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Dec 22, 2017 20:14
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GreyjoyBastard posted:what on earth would they need fighter jets for That and the fact any kind of international deal tends to be used to divert a percent of the reported Dollars for personal use...
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Dec 23, 2017 00:34
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I just heard about an American friend currently in the midst of a worldwide trip saying that his Caribbean trip might involve a trip to Venezuela. I pointed out the zoo animal thing and I hope that was enough.
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Dec 23, 2017 04:46
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https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/944675013889875969 lmao
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Dec 23, 2017 22:30
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I’m in Cuba right now watching TeleSur on TV and it’s showing a huge salsa party going on in Caracas. My Spanish is pretty lovely but from what I can gather from the ticker at the bottom, it looks like Colombia is being riven by assassinations and war, while America is falling apart at its core
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Dec 26, 2017 00:38
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Saladman posted:I’m in Cuba right now watching TeleSur on TV and it’s showing a huge salsa party going on in Caracas. My Spanish is pretty lovely but from what I can gather from the ticker at the bottom, it looks like Colombia is being riven by assassinations and war, while America is falling apart at its core Getting harder and harder to disagree, although I think things in Colombia have got a lot better.
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Dec 26, 2017 01:09
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And Canada expelled the Venezuelan ambassador and chargé d’affaires in retaliation. I still find it incredible that the US hasn't done so yet.Saladman posted:I'm in Cuba right now watching TeleSur on TV and it's showing a huge salsa party going on in Caracas. My Spanish is pretty lovely but from what I can gather from the ticker at the bottom, it looks like Colombia is being riven by assassinations and war, while America is falling apart at its core From what I've heard from people I know that live in Caracas, this was the most silent Christmas Eve they've ever witnessed. No fireworks, no music, not even Christmas decorations. Several cities had power outages during the entire day. fnox fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Dec 26, 2017 |
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Dec 26, 2017 11:28
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It has to be really weird to be in Caracas at New year's Eve and not have your eardrums explode while you wonder when you walked into a war zone. poo poo was insane with the fireworks.
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Dec 26, 2017 11:46
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