|
Calaveron posted:It's what the rich juggalos drink I'm going to allow this.
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 16:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 15:25 |
|
|
I'm still wondering what is happening with McCabe.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 16:42
|
|
|
paternity suitor posted:People are anti union and they don't know why. The answer is effective advertising/messaging/propaganda, whatever you want to call it. It has almost no bearing in reality, it's based on fictions and fantasies and anecdotes. But 40 years of brainwashing is hard to fix. when I was 16 and I got a kroger job after school. The union dues took $50 out of my paycheck that was $100 after taxes. leaving me with $50 take home pay. I switched jobs thats my story
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 16:42
|
|
|
Nice piece of fish posted:... unions being literally illegal and getting murdered by a literal private army owned by rich people, I don't entirely understand why you all can't do it. When large workers' demonstrations happen in America, there will be fantastic new non-lethal crowd control measures like Raytheon's ADS and it's scaled down Jailers' version to inflict burning pain on crowds of uppity proles. No pesky blood or bodies to make the news headlines.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 16:42
|
|
|
Space Gopher posted:Aladdin Iago is short and has a funny voice. Yeah okay, this. Hieronymous Alloy posted:so we aren't gonna hear anything about the Trump / Mueller meeting yesterday are we There is a non-zero chance that he/his lawers wussed the gently caress out. After that, smart money's on it being impotent posturing that doesn't actually change anything.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 16:45
|
|
|
Alter Ego posted:The result last time was Republicans sweeping back into power in the House and cutting the Democratic majority in the Senate by 2/3. What will happen this time, I wonder? Democrats will gain control just in time to be wholly blamed for the engineered collapse of the country.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 16:45
|
|
|
Space Gopher posted:Aladdin Iago is short and has a funny voice. Just saw this, this is amazing. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 16:46
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/943160025714954241 https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/943283054369562624
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 16:53
|
|
|
hanales posted:I'm still wondering what is happening with McCabe.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 16:56
|
|
|
Petr posted:Remember when people thought that things mattered because the ACA survived repeal? You're the most tedious poster in a thread of tedious posters and I wish you would stop
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 16:57
|
|
|
Flapjack Monty posted:Democrats will gain control just in time to be wholly blamed for the engineered collapse of the country. If they do nothing to try and reverse this poo poo (even if they know Trump won't sign any of it), then they'll deserve it. No more decorum for the sake of decorum.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 16:59
|
|
|
Tim Raines IRL posted:You're the most tedious poster in a thread of tedious posters and I wish you would stop I wish Congress would stop giving him fuel but we don't get what we want.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:00
|
|
|
Hoo boy... https://twitter.com/reemadamin/status/943504977254903808 Btw follow Reema for the play by play. She’s done a phenomenal job of live tweeting the recount process.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:01
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/JWPascale/status/943502100381790208 https://twitter.com/JWPascale/status/943508260325380097 well, uh, things may be getting even more interesting! I think what probably happened is that: (a) you can't vote for both candidates, so the recount considered a ballot that voted for both candidates as void as to that race. so this ballot was not counterd (b) the argument is that the intent of the ballot is clear - the voter made a mistake, crossed out the vote for the D, then voted for the R. this is confirmed by the rest of the ballot voting R. (c) the republican candidate wants that ballot counted, for him, which would make the race tied and require a coin flip to determine who wins
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:02
|
|
|
Ballz posted:Hoo boy... Hanging chad, doesn't count
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:03
|
|
|
Does anyone really like ACA? It's a drain on our economy
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:04
|
|
|
Alter Ego posted:If they do nothing to try and reverse this poo poo (even if they know Trump won't sign any of it), then they'll deserve it. No more decorum for the sake of decorum. Pretty much. For that plan to work it takes complicity on the part of the Democrats to just let it happen or get beaten at elections by a party that is trying its hardest to be as unpopular as possible. There's ways to stop it and if they just let it happen they deserve it although the rest of us will pay the price.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:06
|
|
|
echronorian posted:Does anyone really like ACA? It's a drain on our economy Low effort, 1/10
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:06
|
|
|
So the Democratic argument why the vote should not be counted is this, apparently: (a) there's two recount officials, one D, one R. if they agree on how a ballot is to be counted, it's counted that way. (b) during the recount, the republican agreed the ballot could not be counted. therefore, both officials agreed that the ballot didn't count, and the count was certified. (c) it is this specific R recount official who, knowing the results of the election, has decided he made a mistake, and has written a letter saying he thinks it should be counted (d) but it's too late - he signed off on the ballot, he can't change his mind now. Both arguments are reasonable. At the time, I think I would agree that was a vote for the Republican. But I also don't think that his observer can sign off on the ballot not counting, then change their mind only after they know the result.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:07
|
|
|
echronorian posted:Does anyone really like ACA? It's a drain on our economy Yes,
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:07
|
|
|
Democrats are raising a similar argument about "it's too late" - any contested ballots must be segregated. The court took a look, the GOP says they found it (clipped with two other voided ballots) the Dems say that's not good enough. https://twitter.com/reemadamin/status/943513188993249280
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:09
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:So the Democratic argument why the vote should not be counted is this, apparently: Yeah it sounds like it's pretty clear that was a Republican vote but once something is signed off on you don't get to say "WAIT WE DIDN'T MEAN IT" when it actually really matters. They should have considered this before signing. Honestly if this goes to a coin flip and we lose I will be way more angry than if they just found two extra Republican votes somehow.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:10
|
|
|
echronorian posted:Does anyone really like ACA? It's a drain on our economy Won’t anyone think of the corporations!?
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:10
|
|
|
Doesn't the polling station tell you to go back and get a new ballot if you want to undo a mistake? If the voter didn't follow that procedure that would be an argument in favor of not counting it.echronorian posted:Does anyone really like ACA? It's a drain on our economy I for one love it when the government knocks on my door and hands me a burlap sack containing your tax dollars
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:10
|
|
|
echronorian posted:Does anyone really like ACA? It's a drain on our economy hosed up if true
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:12
|
|
|
haveblue posted:Doesn't the polling station tell you to go back and get a new ballot if you want to undo a mistake? If the voter didn't follow that procedure that would be an argument in favor of not counting it. gently caress the GOP, they already successfully destroyed any argument about considering voter intent when deciding whether a ballot should be counted back in 2000. None of the Al Gore write-ins or hanging or dimpled ballots were counted. Nice to see them on the short end of this stick for once.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:12
|
|
|
Alter Ego posted:gently caress the GOP, they already successfully destroyed any argument about considering voter intent when deciding whether a ballot should be counted back in 2000. None of the Al Gore write-ins or hanging or dimpled ballots were counted. Nice to see them on the short end of this stick for once. Unless they pull this out because gently caress consistently. 2000 election should be the trump card for this kind of bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:14
|
|
|
I’m seeing a lot of media coverage of the tax bill along the lines of “the tax bill will become more popular once regular folks start seeing their taxes going down”. I think this fundamentally misreads the current mood of the nation - people are increasingly seeing how the system is rigged to benefit mega-corporations and the ultra-wealthy, and they know that this bill is a massive giveaway to those groups. And if the Repubs are dumb enough to push for cutting SS/Medicare right now... well, that definitely won’t end well for them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:16
|
|
|
haveblue posted:Doesn't the polling station tell you to go back and get a new ballot if you want to undo a mistake? If the voter didn't follow that procedure that would be an argument in favor of not counting it. I think there's no moral way to argue that the obvious intent of a vote should not count while also opposing all of the Republican efforts to put roadblocks in front of voting. I want, in this very specific case, the court to decline to count the vote on technical grounds and I can justify that to myself by the fact that Dems won the overall vote count overwhelmingly - but I think that ultimately that's the wrong decision. I think we know what that voter wanted, and their intent shouldn't get discarded because the Republican observer hosed up. On the other hand, it's really important to have the decisions being made before you know the impact of those decisions, you shouldn't get a do-over once you know the result because that makes the process less fair.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:17
|
|
|
Alter Ego posted:If they do nothing to try and reverse this poo poo (even if they know Trump won't sign any of it), then they'll deserve it. No more decorum for the sake of decorum. You should probably look up the tax deal Schumer was cooking up with R senators back in 2016.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:19
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:I think there's no moral way to argue that the obvious intent of a vote should not count while also opposing all of the Republican efforts to put roadblocks in front of voting. I want, in this very specific case, the court to decline to count the vote on technical grounds and I can justify that to myself by the fact that Dems won the overall vote count overwhelmingly - but I think that ultimately that's the wrong decision. I think we know what that voter wanted, and their intent shouldn't get discarded because the Republican observer hosed up. Yeah if the intent of the voter was argued at the time I think I would be begrudgingly ok with it (although bitter since the Republicans made it clear they don't actual care about voter intent). Now it feels like they are scrambling to find any vote they can with any justification; rules should be followed if they are already set.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:20
|
|
|
DaveWoo posted:I’m seeing a lot of media coverage of the tax bill along the lines of “the tax bill will become more popular once regular folks start seeing their taxes going down”. I think this fundamentally misreads the current mood of the nation - people are increasingly seeing how the system is rigged to benefit mega-corporations and the ultra-wealthy, and they know that this bill is a massive giveaway to those groups. Yeah, I love how Paul Ryan's brilliant plan to get away with SS/Medicare cuts was to...not seek reelection. Did he forget that there are 230+ other Republicans that maybe don't want every old person in their district pissed off at them? The AARP was very successful at pushing back last time a Republican administration tried to cut Social Security and Medicare....let's hope they got another fight in them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:21
|
|
|
DaveWoo posted:I’m seeing a lot of media coverage of the tax bill along the lines of “the tax bill will become more popular once regular folks start seeing their taxes going down”. I think this fundamentally misreads the current mood of the nation - people are increasingly seeing how the system is rigged to benefit mega-corporations and the ultra-wealthy, and they know that this bill is a massive giveaway to those groups. Are voters stupid enough to celebrate their 300 dollar tax cut when republicans just gave the Trump kids a billion and change? Quite possibly.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:21
|
|
|
the insane thing about the tax bill is that if you look at the breakdown by income, even the super rich aren't seeing any real break. only the ultra, ultra rich. and a lot of ultra rich people have a lot of their money filtered through shell companies or offshore accounts, so even a lot of them don't qualify. there's a bit where some guy - mcconnel? - is talking to a room full of R donors and going 'hey, who's excited for that tax break?' and only one guy raises his hand. the republicans managed to gently caress up 'more money for us, gently caress you.'
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:21
|
|
|
Christ, yes the ACA has had a huge part of it wrecked. But it's still way better than if the GOP had accomplished the full repeal that they wanted. The people kicked off their insurance would have been doubled. As it is the majority of people who are going to lose it are choosing too drop it. Yes that'll end up pricing out a ton of other people as well but the damage is still smaller.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
echronorian posted:Does anyone really like ACA? It's a drain on our economy Zero effort, buddy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
DaveWoo posted:I’m seeing a lot of media coverage of the tax bill along the lines of “the tax bill will become more popular once regular folks start seeing their taxes going down”. I think this fundamentally misreads the current mood of the nation - people are increasingly seeing how the system is rigged to benefit mega-corporations and the ultra-wealthy, and they know that this bill is a massive giveaway to those groups. I don't even think you need to go that far. The tax cut is, in dollar amounts, less than the payroll tax cuts in the Obama stimulus bill. Something around 90% of people didn't notice that one. Nobody is gonna notice a $4 variation in their paycheck and figure out it's because of the tax bill.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:On the other hand, it's really important to have the decisions being made before you know the impact of those decisions, you shouldn't get a do-over once you know the result because that makes the process less fair. So it's one of those situations where no matter what it's going to be weird for all involved.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:22
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:I think there's no moral way to argue that the obvious intent of a vote should not count while also opposing all of the Republican efforts to put roadblocks in front of voting. I want, in this very specific case, the court to decline to count the vote on technical grounds and I can justify that to myself by the fact that Dems won the overall vote count overwhelmingly - but I think that ultimately that's the wrong decision. I think we know what that voter wanted, and their intent shouldn't get discarded because the Republican observer hosed up. I think the procedural grounds are a really good hill to die on - because now what is the deadline for Democrats to talk to their recounters so they can issue similar letters? The Republicans saw they lost, did a whip-round and wrote a letter about a borderline ballot. The Democrat recounters saw they won, and didn't have to write any letters. Reopening the process would be pretty unfair at this point.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 15:25 |
|
|
evilweasel posted:I think there's no moral way to argue that the obvious intent of a vote should not count while also opposing all of the Republican efforts to put roadblocks in front of voting. I want, in this very specific case, the court to decline to count the vote on technical grounds and I can justify that to myself by the fact that Dems won the overall vote count overwhelmingly - but I think that ultimately that's the wrong decision. I think we know what that voter wanted, and their intent shouldn't get discarded because the Republican observer hosed up. That's what matters to me. Regardless of everything else, both observers signed off on it. Undoing that would be inappropriate at this point.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 17:24
|
|
