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this is the biggest, baddest double dip exit scam i have ever seen and i am loving every second of it.
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Dec 20, 2017 06:30
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:this is the biggest, baddest double dip exit scam i have ever seen and i am loving every second of it. Same Wonder how much they “gained”
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Dec 20, 2017 06:58
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tehinternet posted:Wonder how much they “gained” By their counts, about $64,000,000.
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Dec 20, 2017 07:11
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Wait, people are spending $1000's on rigs to earn a bus boy hourly wages in a day? You are probably better off being a bus boy for an hour a day! I think the hardware depreciates faster than what they earn anyway. gently caress wait, what am I doing trying to rationalize this.
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Dec 20, 2017 13:33
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There are huge turnkey industries out there for dumb poo poo like arcades, prize machines or atms where it takes forever to earn back your initial investment. Crypto mining isn't particularly unique compared to those, and shares a lot of the same risks. Yes people will invest a bunch for a trickle of passive income. Its probably easier to sell your mining hardware than some pos claw machine, though.
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Dec 20, 2017 14:00
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Funking Giblet posted:Wait, people are spending $1000's on rigs to earn a bus boy hourly wages in a day? You are probably better off being a bus boy for an hour a day! I think the hardware depreciates faster than what they earn anyway. gently caress wait, what am I doing trying to rationalize this. For capital outlay of around 20k (6x RX580x8 rigs) you can make around $60-62k (projected) in a year gross. Power usage should be roughly 6500-7500w before cooling, which is around 60 amps 120v so you can certainly squeeze that into an average home or upgrade service. Once you set this up, you can also work a real job at the same time  Granted these rough numbers don't account for changing difficulties/block rewards, valuations, government regulation or hacks/scams involving fake internet money.From my perspective I can see why some people are trying to do cryptomining full time, the low capital required, short ROI period, and high potential rewards makes it very appealing. People in poorer countries could earn a very generous income from mining. There certainly are risks though, which is an understatement. I suppose this is roughly as risky as opening a restaurant though which is hilarious in it's own right.
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Dec 20, 2017 16:56
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At least with a restaurant you can eat the food when it inevitably fails  I don’t know, I mine because I have the gaming hardware, but buying stuff specifically to mine? Ehhhhhh... If you’re really into crypto currency for the money you can get, and you had 20k around, why not just buy the fake moneys and trade ? you’ll make more in less time. You seem to be taking it seriously
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Dec 20, 2017 17:16
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:If you’re really into crypto currency for the money you can get, and you had 20k around, why not just buy the fake moneys and trade ? you’ll make more in less time. You seem to be taking it seriously In theory, mining is profitable regardless of the underlying crypto prices going up or down, as long as they don't crash AND keep high difficulty. The thing that you're missing about mining is that for whatever reason, idiots are willing to pay 80% of new price for used recent GPUs right now. If your mining doesn't work out, just sell your stuff to gamers. And yeah, the payback period is still a couple months so if you make it that far while selling your crypto as you go, you are now purely in the black. It's a bet that the crypto market won't explode in the next 3 or 4 months, basically.
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Dec 20, 2017 17:21
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You are hedging your risk with mining vs buying directly. Coins can go to zero, hardware still holds value, but I would peg it closer to 50% not 80% when the fire sale happens. Though you would have to calculate whether the tax savings from hardware depreciation is worth more than the value you would get on the secondary market sale of the cards. Some people are serious about investigating trends and making money 
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Dec 20, 2017 17:53
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Risky Bisquick posted:You are hedging your risk with mining vs buying directly. Coins can go to zero, hardware still holds value, but I would peg it closer to 50% not 80% when the fire sale happens. Yeah, 80% is what my friends are managing to sell cards that don't mine well or have fan issues for right now while the music is still going. P.S. don't buy any used GPUs in the next couple years. At all.
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Dec 20, 2017 17:56
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Twerk from Home posted:P.S. don't buy any used GPUs in the next couple years. At all. This is extremely the truth. A friend of mine bought a used RX580 and couldn't get drivers to recognize it, even through several clean (including repartition and format) installs of Windows. Had him grab the latest VBIOS for that specific model and flash it. Turns out someone had flashed some hosed up hacked mining BIOS onto the poor thing, probably failed just enough for it to still be able to provide a display but not enough to fail to boot, and dumped it on Craigslist.
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Dec 20, 2017 18:02
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Twerk from Home posted:Yeah, 80% is what my friends are managing to sell cards that don't mine well or have fan issues for right now while the music is still going. GTX1070s are going at nearly full price on EBay. It’s insane. It’s all insane.
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Dec 20, 2017 18:05
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Miners are blindly flashing their cards with bios dumps from a site called anorak.tech. Great times great times
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Dec 20, 2017 18:10
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Twerk from Home posted:P.S. don't buy any used GPUs in the next couple years. At all. Or, you know, buy cards from EVGA to they have a really good 3-year transferable warranty. Edit: It's not like last time where all the mining cards were reference R9 290 blowers, lol
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Dec 20, 2017 18:23
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Zero VGS posted:Or, you know, buy cards from EVGA to they have a really good 3-year transferable warranty. Does that transferable warranty apply if the last guy flashed a bad BIOS onto it and then ran it in a humid sealed box for 8 months?
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Dec 20, 2017 18:23
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Twerk from Home posted:Does that transferable warranty apply if the last guy flashed a bad BIOS onto it and then ran it in a humid sealed box for 8 months? Probably depends on how much strawberry juice is on it.
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Dec 20, 2017 18:25
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Twerk from Home posted:P.S. don't buy any used GPUs in the next couple years. At all. Hardly. Just don't be stupid about it: (1) Don't buy it off Craigslist. Ever. Just don't. (2) Buy NVidia. (3) Buy a card from a manufacturer that does serial-based warranties, so you can get support if you have issues. If you do that, things will be fine. Other than possibly burning out a fan (which would be covered under warranty), there's very little that mining can do to hurt the cards, especially since with this current generation of NVidia cards, you can't flash the BIOS to unlock crazy voltages anymore. AMD you should just stay away from entirely, but that's more a price:performance issue.
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Dec 20, 2017 18:28
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This Crypto bubble has to be just doing gangbusters for AMD and Nvidia. I wonder what their plan is for the crash and if they are trying to constrain supply some to prevent difficulty curves from getting out of control and allowing ASIC miners to become profitable like they did for Bitcoin.
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Dec 20, 2017 21:08
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Nitrousoxide posted:This Crypto bubble has to be just doing gangbusters for AMD and Nvidia. I wonder what their plan is for the crash and if they are trying to constrain supply some to prevent difficulty curves from getting out of control and allowing ASIC miners to become profitable like they did for Bitcoin. Pretty sure NVIDIA's plan is "release ampere" and they go back to raking in the bucks as everyone is forced to upgrade to keep their efficiency competitive. Pascal is already way more efficient at mining than Polaris, Ampere is going to be beastly when the chips are down and profits are low.
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Dec 20, 2017 21:22
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I don't know AMD so well, but Nvidia DGAF about mining and kind of doesn't like it. Miners are buying gaming segment cards, but instead of gamers they're only buying cards based on a nebulous profitability rather than every generation to play new games. They'd rather have consistent long term sales from gaming than miners using up all of the supply now. Miners buying cards now makes it harder for them to build mind share with new customers when the narrative changes from "These cards are good" to "These cards are good, but overpriced". When kids are at the 8-13 age they're not buying anything directly but brand affinities are getting built subconsciously that pay off in 5-10 years. That's the Nvidia and Nvidia partner stance, I don't know people at AMD and partners to get their comments.
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Dec 20, 2017 21:26
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craig588 posted:I don't know AMD so well, but Nvidia DGAF about mining and kind of doesn't like it. Miners are buying gaming segment cards, but instead of gamers they're only buying cards based on a nebulous profitability rather than every generation to play new games. They'd rather have consistent long term sales from gaming than miners using up all of the supply now. Miners buying cards now makes it harder for them to build mind share with new customers when the narrative changes from "These cards are good" to "These cards are good, but overpriced". When kids are at the 8-13 age they're not buying anything directly but brand affinities are getting built subconsciously that pay off in 5-10 years. That's the Nvidia and Nvidia partner stance, I don't know people at AMD and partners to get their comments. NVIDIA makes enough cards that miners can't really buy them out the same way they can do AMD. It's a fringe benefit of their crazy market share. Dunno, if they wanted to fix prices they could just ramp production a little more. Mostly they just need more 1070s, 1060s are a little on the high side but not terribly far out of whack, and the 1070 Ti is bang-on at MSRP. I kinda think NVIDIA likes this new world where they can sell at/above MSRP for an entire generation at a time. That probably goes for AMD too, but they are clearly afraid of repeating their mistake with the 290 overproduction when the bubble popped on them. But again, the fix is just "release a newer and more efficient card", boom nobody cares about your old cards anymore. A big part of the problem comes back to AMD's habitual rebranding and lack of R&D spending. AMD definitely gets the poo poo end of the stick though, they are just perpetually out of stock on all their products and Vega is a turd apart from mining (bearing in mind its huge die and insanely expensive VRAM subsystem) so they are extremely vulnerable to mining popping if prices collapse. At least they've been able to keep 580s in stock this time, even if prices are out of whack again. Lisa Su said a "single-digit percentage" of their sales are from mining, I think there is some serious lying-with-statistics going on there. Maybe single-digit percentages of AMD's total revenue, or including OEM sales and poo poo. It makes up a huge percentage of their retail add-in-board sales and probably >80% of retail Vega sales (easily 99% at the moment, given current pricing). Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 21:32
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craig588 posted:I don't know AMD so well, but Nvidia DGAF about mining and kind of doesn't like it. Miners are buying gaming segment cards, but instead of gamers they're only buying cards based on a nebulous profitability rather than every generation to play new games. Depends on your definition of generation, but gamers don't have to buy every generation. Miners frequently will if the efficiency means enough. Paul MaudDib posted:Mostly they just need more 1070s Is TSMC even going to make more 1070s because I figured the ti was going to be a defacto replacement. It's basically a repurposed 1080 that didn't quite pass QC, in the same way that 1060 3GBs were chips that had one CUDA core fail and were repurposed instead of being thrown away. The 1070 was basically it's own unique manufacturing, so I figured it was effectively retired in manufacture and the plant would focus on making 1060, 1080, and ti fabs. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 21:39
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Craptacular! posted:Is TSMC even going to make more 1070s because I figured the ti was going to be a defacto replacement. It's basically a repurposed 1080 that didn't quite pass QC, in the same way that 1060 3GBs were chips that had one CUDA core fail and were repurposed instead of being thrown away. The 1070 was basically it's own unique manufacturing, so I figured it was effectively retired in manufacture and the plant would focus on making 1060, 1080, and ti fabs. Yields probably favor going with the 1070 Ti nowadays but to be honest die-harvesting is always a racket, literally everyone gimps functional chips in order to fill demand for downmarket SKUs for both CPUs and GPUs. Once you get past the initial launch phase yields are always great, but people want lots of the cheap chips, and you don't have nearly enough actually broken ones to fill demand. If they want to retire the 1070 then fine but then don't turn around and bitch about losing mindshare after you've left a giant void in the extremely popular midrange of the market. Or, drop the price of the 1070 to fill that space. Right now there is just nothing between $260 and $450. (also, the way it works is that 1060s are GP106 and 1070/Ti/1080 are all on GP104, it's the same die, you don't try to make 1070s it's just what is left over when you try to make a 1080 and it is partially broken. 1060 die-harvests become 1060 3 GBs.) Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 21:50
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Aren't 1060 and 570's the better mining cards at the moment though? You loose ~20% performance but cut your capital costs by almost 50%. They have a payback of 2-3 months instead of 6 months. This reduces your exposure to the risk of the bubble popping and you can just buy more 1060 or 570 cards to get the same hashing capability at a lower initial expense but slightly higher physical space requirement and a tiny increase decrease in margin due to higher electricity costs
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Dec 20, 2017 22:16
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Nitrousoxide posted:Aren't 1060 and 570's the better mining cards at the moment though? You loose ~20% performance but cut your capital costs by almost 50%. They have a payback of 2-3 months instead of 6 months. This reduces your exposure to the risk of the bubble popping and you can just buy more 1060 or 570 cards to get the same hashing capability at a lower initial expense but slightly higher physical space requirement and a tiny increase decrease in margin due to higher electricity costs The rest of the system costs money too, though. At current prices yeah, the 1060 and 570 make more sense, but if you could get a 1070 for $375 or so there would be a reasonable argument for it. Frankly the 1080 and 1070 Ti are not a bad deal for miners either, just not for ethereum. They're roughly twice as fast as a 1060 at Neoscrypt and Equihash, and basically cost twice as much, so performance-per-dollar is the same and you are getting more bang out of the rest of your system. And if the market dumps they will be better for gaming, and probably less susceptible to market flooding. It's basically just the 1070 that is drastically out of whack. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 22:23
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Nitrousoxide posted:This Crypto bubble has to be just doing gangbusters for AMD and Nvidia. I wonder what their plan is for the crash and if they are trying to constrain supply some to prevent difficulty curves from getting out of control and allowing ASIC miners to become profitable like they did for Bitcoin. I don't know about AMD but NVidia's bread and butter these days is high performance computing, as in datacenters full of Tesla cards. This cryptocurrency mining poo poo is barely even a blip. You can buy a 2U system that costs $100k and is basically just graphics cards, and datacenters are being built that are just full of these kinds of systems. QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 22:53
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QuarkJets posted:You can buy a 2U system that costs $100k and is basically just graphics cards, and datacenters are being built that are just full of these kinds of systems. What's price/performance on those for mining?
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Dec 20, 2017 23:49
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divabot posted:What's price/performance on those for mining? Nobody buys these cards to mine with. Your looking at maybe a 25% increase in hash rate for 3-5x the price. Server farms are paying the massive premiums on these because they come with ridiculous amounts of VRAM which is useless for mining.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:20
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Alzion posted:Nobody buys these cards to mine with. Your looking at maybe a 25% increase in hash rate for 3-5x the price. Server farms are paying the massive premiums on these because they come with ridiculous amounts of VRAM which is useless for mining. yeah, thought it'd be something like that. They'd also be more robust and less likely to burn out when hammered 24/7 for months.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:28
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divabot posted:yeah, thought it'd be something like that. They'd also be more robust and less likely to burn out when hammered 24/7 for months. There's really no secret sauce in the server grade silicon for longevity. Auto GPU Boost is disabled for the compute cards and their typically set to run at sustained lower clock setting for 24/7 use. If your worried about burning out a card from sustained use you can use MSI Afterburner to set your own custom voltage curve, and max power setting on consumer cards.
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Dec 21, 2017 01:21
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QuarkJets posted:I don't know about AMD but NVidia's bread and butter these days is high performance computing, as in datacenters full of Tesla cards. This cryptocurrency mining poo poo is barely even a blip. How ironic the GPU vendor making the real bank isn't the one who is shoulder deep dabbling in buttcoins.
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Dec 21, 2017 01:28
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NiceHash is back up and saying that they will pay everyone back who's wallet loss is above 0.0001 BTC. https://www.nicehash.com/attack-learn-more
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Dec 21, 2017 01:37
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Nitrousoxide posted:NiceHash is back up and saying that they will pay everyone back who's wallet loss is above 0.0001 BTC. Is it still $100-ish minimum cashouts?
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Dec 21, 2017 02:22
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divabot posted:yeah, thought it'd be something like that. They'd also be more robust and less likely to burn out when hammered 24/7 for months. Case in point, if you buy GPUs directly from NVidia then you void the warranty if you run their consumer-grade hardware (ie the GTX 1080) in datacenter conditions (ie 24/7 use, packed against other GPUs). Their consumer-grade hardware is designed to be run at full load some of the time. Their higher-end hardware is designed to be run at full load all of the time. Alzion posted:There's really no secret sauce in the server grade silicon for longevity. Auto GPU Boost is disabled for the compute cards and their typically set to run at sustained lower clock setting for 24/7 use. There is secret sauce, but it's the same secret sauce that's been used by hardware developers for decades: effective cooling, throttling in case the hardware is abnormally warm, and shutting down if the hardware gets too hot. All modern GPUs have these capabilities. That secret sauce is part of the reason why the P100 is passively cooled and the GTX 1080 isn't. You can assume that the P100 is going to be in a well-ventilated datacenter, whereas the GTX 1080 needs to be able to run underneath some dumbshit's desk with a stack of mountain dew cans blocking half of the case fans. These potentially poor operating conditions is why every GPU needs to be able to throttle back or shut down to prevent damage to itself. Of course, those safeguards don't matter much if the user accidentally or intentionally disables them, which is where your risk lies if you buy a used mining card
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Dec 21, 2017 02:51
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Nitrousoxide posted:NiceHash is back up and saying that they will pay everyone back who's wallet loss is above 0.0001 BTC. I'm checking it out but I can't get past starting the excavator server.
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Dec 21, 2017 02:57
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Zero VGS posted:Is it still $100-ish minimum cashouts? More like $160ish thanks to the recent BTC runup. Doesn't look like they've changed their payout schedule at all, which is probably a vote to stay with Winminer or similar for people with normal-person earnings per day, since at $4/day it'd take about 40 days to get 0.01 BTC and actually get paid to an external wallet. Nicehash posted:Payments schedule for sellers:
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Dec 21, 2017 02:59
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Zero VGS posted:Is it still $100-ish minimum cashouts? The homepage says "Payments from 0.001 Bitcoin" which is about $16.64
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Dec 21, 2017 03:00
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Nitrousoxide posted:The homepage says "Payments from 0.001 Bitcoin" which is about $16.64 That is only a payout to a nicehash wallet. it is more for an external wallet.
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Dec 21, 2017 03:01
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Zero VGS posted:Or, you know, buy cards from EVGA to they have a really good 3-year transferable warranty. I bought a used firesale 290 in 2014 from a miner, gamed on it for three years, and resold it back to another miner for the same price  That was like two weeks before I started mining myself otherwise I'd probably still have it.
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Dec 21, 2017 03:05
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HamHawkes posted:I'm checking it out but I can't get past starting the excavator server. same. Nicehash is up but not "up" up apparently some people have gotten the AMD version working and I havent seen any reports of legacy working Ill try again tomorrow. All the other miners I have been using meanwhile still work great
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Dec 21, 2017 03:22
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