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The most ironic thing about the ending is that Chloe actually seems like she's on the mend and is genuinely happy for a time. Then later Rachel disappears and she's suddenly back at square one (maybe even a little worse now that Rachel's attitude and mannerisms seem to have rubbed off on her). As much as she won't admit it, Chloe is a goddamn hero (she might be a little selfish, but when push comes to shove she almost always puts protecting those she loves over her own personal safety) and is probably one of the strongest people in the whole town (you'd almost have to be to put up with the kind of poo poo she did for so many years without killing yourself). If anything, she's almost too good for Rachel who, while not a bad person per se, has too much of her parents in her (her father is human garbage and her mom has the same free spirit on top of her addiction). This is probably why she wound up hooking up with Frank (who, like Chloe, did seem to genuinely love her), she just doesn't have the emotional maturity to handle a relationship like that (which is too bad because Chloe is probably the best thing that ever happened to her). Larryb fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 15:32
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Just finished the episode and i did enjoy it despite it feeling a bit rushed and some of the plot points not standing up too well if you think about them too much. Kudos to Deck Nine for it actually turning out well. As regards the end i chose to lie to Rachel because the game was pushing the message of "sometimes it's better to lie to protect someones feelings" pretty hard during the episode. Also, if you've payed LiS you know that Chloe and Rachel are on borrowed time so it seemed really lovely to ruin her last few months to "do the right thing". I was fine with the ending stinger, it would have been weird not to address what happens to Rachel eventually. It has actually left me wanting more and LiS 2 can't come soon enough but it is going to have a hella hard time living up to this setting and cast of characters.
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Dec 20, 2017 15:36
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I would say the main weakness of Episode 3 which branches into everything else about it is that it's got the least amount of screentime between Rachel & Chloe, whose interactions are by far the strongest aspect of the prequel. Deck Nine more or less acknowledges this by frontloading so many great character moments into the first two episodes, but then it's almost like they have to reluctantly go about the business of actually including a plot and so the back half of Hell is Empty is spent hitting every story beat measure for measure. Writing is hard work and who knows what constraints they were working under but I maybe would have chosen to include more of Rachel into the structure of this episode. It's an odd priority shift to spend so much time establishing their relationship onscreen only for Rachel to become a mostly passive element in its last hours. I could see what they were going for though because it's a mirror image of the same power dynamic shift we saw between Chloe and Max in Life is Strange. But overall, I want to say I am pleased with how this turned out and I'll be sad to see Arcadia Bay go. I don't think Before the Storm was ever a story that needed to be told, but since market forces made it an inevitability in the eyes of Square-Enix, I'm glad that this project was given to a group of #1 Life is Strange fans who sincerely cared about creating a worthwhile addition to the series.
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Dec 20, 2017 15:57
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Well that left a horrible taste in my mouth!Paul Zuvella posted:Not done yet, but this episode seems kind of... The scenarios and tensions never matched the dialogue, everything felt like a dream sequence not just that surreal conversation with Sera. There was no themes, there was no character consistency. The logic jumps to burning evidence on the guy who stabbed your friend, or the weird scene with Elliot being a bit shouty but not actually that much - like why is Chloe of all people suddenly acting so meek and why is calling the police a better plan than just kicking him in the bollocks? And during the hospital scene, especially noticeable with Elliot - why was everyone....*LONG SIGH* talking....so....slowly...and...awkwardly? *LONG INTAKE OF BREATH* Like....something out of...a JRP...G? Deck Nine nailed the hell out of eps 1 and 2, they were way better than they had any right to be. They had STYLE, they had inspiring shots and music, they had good small character moments and dramas and they PERFECTLY hit that LiS vibe, all while having to deal with the constraints of a prequel. There's not a single good scene here. We have a zombie-like Chloe who suddenly never brings up all the tonally-jarring stabbings and headkickings and doesn't ask questions. Macaluso posted:
VagueRant fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 16:18
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If anyone's curious on how to get Rachel to meet Sera at the end, here's a video detailing the whole process (Spoiler Warning): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8xj4cFW7NM If you think about it, the real villain of BtS is actually James Amber. Even if it was out of love he still refused to give Sera a second chance (to be fair, what she did wasn't great but she doesn't really seem like a horrible person either), actively hid her existence from Rachel for years (such as holding on to letters she sent) and even tried colluding with a drug lord to keep her quiet. No matter what his intention that was still an evil act and he shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. Plus, if Chloe lied and Rachel somehow later found out anyway I think that would probably make the situation even worse. So gently caress it, I told Rachel the truth in the end. Poor Rose though, she's way too good for that family. 
Larryb fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 16:24
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The big problem is that they just take away Rachel for a huge portion of the episode, and Rachel & Chloe's relationship is the strongest part of the prequel. They really should have gone a different direction so she would be by Chloe's side during all the stuff that happens in the second half of the game. The Elliot scene shoulda had both, the ending confrontation should've had both, etc. It would've been better. Macaluso fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 16:32
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VagueRant posted:~snip~ While I agree with pretty much everything you said, can you please spoiler tag this as not everyone will have played the thing that just came out yesterday!
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Dec 20, 2017 16:34
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You'd think there could be some interesting character drama or satisfying emotional moment in Rachel talking to the annoyingly robotic woman who raised her, who she only just found out was not her bio-mum. Some positive cartharsis, maybe even have your choices influencing the way that relationship goes, dare I say some "feels"? NOPE. They have no scenes! Rachel does not even talk about her! What?! EDIT: Paul Zuvella posted:While I agree with pretty much everything you said, can you please spoiler tag this as not everyone will have played the thing that just came out yesterday! VagueRant fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 16:39
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I don't know that the scene with Eliot really needed him to be more shouty than he was. Like, I was already incredibly uncomfortable just from his body language and how he was acting. I thought they did a good job with that scene.
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Dec 20, 2017 16:49
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I thought calling into question all of Chloe's actions since meeting Rachel was a good point of contention, but would have been better if they found another vessel for this other than Eliot.
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Dec 20, 2017 16:56
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exquisite tea posted:I thought calling into question all of Chloe's actions since meeting Rachel was a good point of contention, but would have been better if they found another vessel for this other than Eliot. Yeah, Eliot was a bad choice for that. First off the game goes to great lengths to make you, the player, love Rachel just as much as everyone else does. So even though he has SOME valid points (some are just him obviously being jealous) you are immediately put on the defensive. And in game obviously it's Chloe and her girlfriend so SHE would be defensive about it too, and then of course Eliot is being a mega creep and super threatening. It works well from a "the game is trying to make me feel defensive over Rachel" angle, but it drops the ball on actually getting you to consider the stuff he says. Someone like Steph probably would've been a better choice for that frankly edit: Like it was funny how the game actually made me feel, in real life, like "how dare you?" when Eliot was saying that stuff Macaluso fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 17:03
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Kinda thought (almost hoped, just because it would've been the first interesting thing in the episode) that he was going to reveal some things that would cast Rachel in a different light. Like the tinfoil theories that she was watching Chloe bullshit her way into the concert and had actually been manipulating her this whole time for some selfish reason. But no, he was just making weird unreasonable statements like kinda trying to blame her for getting you expelled when it's obviously just a choice you made, and she even tried to back you up. There was no actual conflict created there. Viridiant posted:I don't know that the scene with Eliot really needed him to be more shouty than he was. Like, I was already incredibly uncomfortable just from his body language and how he was acting. I thought they did a good job with that scene. So the fact she seemed to take Elliot seriously played really weird to me. Figured she'd tell him to gently caress off and then jump out the window because that wouldn't be any more ridiculous than what else she'd done in that room.
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Dec 20, 2017 17:20
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Eliot is a jealous Pricefield shipper confirmed.
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Dec 20, 2017 17:23
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Yeah, the thing is that Eliot was such a non-entity throughout the game that this sudden confrontation seemed kind of out of left field for me. It might have worked better if it was Steph (or hell, possibly even William/the Raven) trying to warn Chloe about Rachel instead. Also, Chloe seemed way more calm about the whole situation than she should have been and probably should have bit back a little more. Despite that (and stuff like Damon getting killed off screen and Rachel not being able to meet her mom unless the player fulfills certain conditions they would have no way of knowing about beforehand), I still liked the episode well enough and still think the game as a whole was an enjoyable experience.
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Dec 20, 2017 17:39
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exquisite tea posted:I thought calling into question all of Chloe's actions since meeting Rachel was a good point of contention, but would have been better if they found another vessel for this other than Eliot. This in particular was what I think annoyed me more than anything. The game places hints and implies that Rachel is not on the up-and-up with you and multiple people allude to her being manipulative and fake and just using chloe. These themes are also present in the original and is a huge part of the mystery there. But that's not actually what the game is about, Chloe never confronts Rachel about it, Chloe never really thinks about it critically, chloe never really has to face this issue head on so it might as well just not be there. It is a huge missed opportunity because THAT should have been the climax of this strory, not these weird drug dealer merrick plotline. The game tried to wear too many hats and thus it detracts from the one thing that is actually good; the rachel/Chloe stuff. Instead of Chloe having to battle with the idea that Rachel is manipulating her and having to face it you have a bunch of people telling her that its happening and she never really ever acknowledges it, it's bizarre. Like think about this. What if the conclusion of the game is Rachel/Chloe meeting Sera and realizing she is actually exactly what her father says she is; destructive, manipulative and dangerous in ways that mirror what Rachel is doing to Chloe, Chloe can realize this, and can confront her and face the idea that maybe their relationship was not as real as she thought. Not only is this more interesting imo, it would lead better into the events of the original. It would have to be set way closer to season 1 than BiS is though for it to really work. You could have Chloe and Rachel's relationship deteriorate, either because Chloe is doubting Rachel's realness or because Chloe called Rachel out, leading to Rachel going to Frank. Now that everything is said and done, I'd probably rate the episodes as the following: Ep 1: 3/5 Ep 2: 4/5 Ep 3: 2/5 I really think that Episode 3 is maybe actually bad but I'm still too close to it to really tell. In terms of an overall series I'd probably give it a 3/5? Good, but I'm not going to play it 3 times over like I did with Season 1. For context I'd probably rate the first season like this: Ep 1: 4/5 Ep 2: 3/5 Ep 3: 4/5 Ep 4: 5/5 Ep: 5: 4/5 Paul Zuvella fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 17:43
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exquisite tea posted:I think the end choice to the original Life is Strange is brilliant because it is 100% utterly connected to its central theme: "How far would you go to save the life of a best friend?" Ultimately the final decision casts the character arcs of both Max and Chloe in direction opposition: In order for Max to achieve what she's set off to do and complete her transformation, she needs to let the storm hit. In order for Chloe to live for something other than herself and complete her own arc, she has to be euthanized via time travel and reverse everything Max has done. To me Bay vs. Bae comes down to what kind of story Life is Strange was to you, and who it was more about. To me, both games come down to the question of what's more important: your own personal happiness, or facing reality head on with open eyes. I chose the Bay ending, and chose to tell the truth here for much the same reasons. Both times, the seemingly happy ending sours in my mind when I think about what the likely consequences for everyone involved are going to be even if it seems happy in the short run. But in the longer view, doing the thing that sucks now may ultimately be for the best. May.
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Dec 20, 2017 17:58
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I agree that this probably would have been a stronger thematic arc for Rachel & Chloe, or really any conclusion that included Rachel in the second half of the episode. As it stands the game kind of ideates upon the sins of the past repeating themselves with the whole Sera:Rachel parallel, but instead of Rachel's more manipulative characteristics becoming exacerbated by the presence of her mother suddenly re-entering her life, the actual text of Before the Storm gives us no real reason to dislike Rachel besides the foreknowledge of things she will do three years later, oh and she's kind of impulsive I guess. There is no reason from what we can actually see to doubt Rachel's feelings for Chloe, and we never get an alternative perspective that would cast doubt upon all the things she's said and done up to this point. Instead, the theme of BtS kind of shifts one of illusion vs. reality, and how growing up involves learning when to tell the truth and when to protect people from harm. That's fine but Rachel plays a very passive role in this scenario. I liked Season One's final decision better because it cast Max's and Chloe's core motivations in direct opposition to one another in the last moment of the game.
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Dec 20, 2017 18:03
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Cythereal posted:To me, both games come down to the question of what's more important: your own personal happiness, or facing reality head on with open eyes. I chose the Bay ending, and chose to tell the truth here for much the same reasons. Both times, the seemingly happy ending sours in my mind when I think about what the likely consequences for everyone involved are going to be even if it seems happy in the short run. But in the longer view, doing the thing that sucks now may ultimately be for the best. Saving Chloe has nothing to do with Max's own happiness. By the end of Episode 5, Max has thrown absolutely everything away in order to rescue Chloe's life. She rejected her perfect 100% S-Rank ending in San Francisco, went back to the Dark Room on the off-chance that maybe she could find ANOTHER photo to resurrect a still very-much dead Chloe, and by that point had totally broken down her own body and mind. It's single-minded obsession, the one and only thing she has attempted to do over and over again since the story began, and is what inspires Chloe to offer herself after seeing all she's put her through. Max's personal happiness was a total non-factor at that stage, ethos of the player notwithstanding. exquisite tea fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 18:18
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exquisite tea posted:Saving Chloe has nothing to do with Max's own happiness. By the end of Episode 5, Max has thrown absolutely everything away in order to rescue Chloe's life. She rejected her perfect 100% S-Rank ending in San Francisco, went back to the Dark Room on the off-chance that maybe she could find ANOTHER photo to resurrect a still very-much dead Chloe, and by that point had totally broken down her own body and mind. It's single-minded obsession, the one and only thing she has attempted to do over and over again since the story began, and is what inspires Chloe to offer herself after seeing all she's put her through. Max's personal happiness was a total non-factor at that stage, ethos of the player notwithstanding. And yet, choosing to walk away might be the healthiest choice Max can make, sitting down and asking herself if this is really worth it, if Chloe is really worth killing everyone else in the town.
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Dec 20, 2017 18:21
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Cythereal posted:And yet, choosing to walk away might be the healthiest choice Max can make, sitting down and asking herself if this is really worth it, if Chloe is really worth killing everyone else in the town. Yeah, at that point Max is so far gone that she basically tells Chloe, "gently caress the world, you're all that matters to me". Chloe saw what she was doing to her friend and, by choosing to sacrifice herself, Chloe was trying to save Max just as much as she was trying to save the town (hell, maybe it was also her way of making amends for the fact that she ultimately couldn't help Rachel). Like I said, I never really understood the Sacrifice Chloe ending until playing BtS and seeing people talking about it in this thread gave me a greater appreciation for it (to the point where I might end up going that route if I decide to replay the original). Deep down, Chloe is a good person who, when push comes to shove, will usually put those she loves over her own personal safety (we even see a bit of that in Before the Storm) and I think that if she knew the truth, the Chloe Max saw in the bathroom might have done the same thing. It just sucks that she dies a hero but nobody but Max will ever know the truth (including the Chloe that got sacrificed). To nearly everyone else, Chloe will be remembered as a delinquent or, at best, a troubled girl who lost her way. Larryb fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 18:25
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exquisite tea posted:She rejected her perfect 100% S-Rank ending in San Francisco (Do we still get banned for just saying "lol"?)
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Dec 20, 2017 18:26
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I've gone back and forth on this a few times but I believe the end choice to Life is Strange depends on what kind of story the game was to you. If you think it's a game about Max, then you must choose Bae to successfully complete her character arc. If you think it's really more about Chloe, then you must choose Bay.
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Dec 20, 2017 18:26
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exquisite tea posted:I've gone back and forth on this a few times but I believe the end choice to Life is Strange depends on what kind of story the game was to you. If you think it's a game about Max, then you must choose Bae to successfully complete her character arc. If you think it's really more about Chloe, then you must choose Bay. I see it as a game about Max, and her ultimately choosing to reject an obsession and a relationship that while passionate was ultimately unhealthy.
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Dec 20, 2017 18:30
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Cythereal posted:I see it as a game about Max, and her ultimately choosing to reject an obsession and a relationship that while passionate was ultimately unhealthy. I personally see it as more Chloe's game since she's the one that gets most of the focus and is one of the few characters that actually has a noticeable arc (and let's face it, is far more interesting than Max) and we don't really learn a whole lot about Max herself, but I can see how someone could think otherwise. Think of it kind of like MGS2, Raiden is the one you spend most of the game playing as but Snake is still technically the main character. If you think about it, Max and Chloe actually develop backwards from each other as the story goes on, the latter grows as a person while the former gradually deteriorates to the point that by the time we get to the final scene the two have more or less completely swapped roles. Larryb fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 18:37
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exquisite tea posted:I've gone back and forth on this a few times but I believe the end choice to Life is Strange depends on what kind of story the game was to you. If you think it's a game about Max, then you must choose Bae to successfully complete her character arc. If you think it's really more about Chloe, then you must choose Bay. I think its a story about max and I chose Bay fight me
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Dec 20, 2017 18:42
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 me, this game has destroyed me mind body and soul.I lied to Rachel. I feel like total goddamn poo poo for doing it (just like I did sacrificing Chloe at the end of season 1), but I did it because that's what Sera wanted. James was utterly irrelevant (although being an utter goddamn fucker). I'm sad that I apparently missed out on a second round of D&D by protecting Mikey, but it was worth it. I didn't realise I could spar with Drew over the pudding, though. Or how to graffiti his cast. I feel like Chloe's anger over being lied to by Rachel over Frank in season 1 actually works either way Before The Storm ends - if she told the truth, then of course she'd be angry over the lie, while if she'd been holding that secret for so long, she'd probably be channelling her own self-loathing over having to carry it - and at least from her perspective, Chloe kept it for (to her) a good reason as opposed to Rachel's far more innocuous deception. Oh god, I just realised how loving terrible my Chloe felt over lying to Rachel after finding her body in the junkyard. Now it makes her choosing to sacrifice herself that much worse. Still, at least I got Elliot expelled. gently caress that guy. I can't wait to get my heart stomped on all over again in Farewell. Edit: I think Life is Strange was about both Max & Chloe. And how one gave her life for the sake of the other.
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Dec 20, 2017 18:45
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Paul Zuvella posted:I think its a story about max and I chose Bay fight me The game repeatedly mocks you for attempting to alter the flow of time without some terrible disastrous consequence, and then in its final moments suggests that jusssst one more photo jump will magically fix everything! I say as a big Maxine Caufield fan, eff that poo poo. Max's entire heroic journey begins and ends with one goal -- rescue Chloe's life, and in order for her arc to complete she must save the Bae. The girl needa take the 'W' here.
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Dec 20, 2017 18:49
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That and the whole theory of the tornado being a result of Chloe surviving was based on nothing but a random guess by noted science class failure Warren
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Dec 20, 2017 19:00
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why did Sera spend all that time and effort looking for Rachel when she just gives up at the end and tells Chloe to lie to her?
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Dec 20, 2017 19:04
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DeathChicken posted:That and the whole theory of the tornado being a result of Chloe surviving was based on nothing but a random guess by noted science class failure Warren True, I don't think there's any real proof that the tornado was necessarily Max's fault beyond Warren's theory. She probably just took it at face value because she was already at the end of her rope by that point so what's one more "gently caress you" from the universe? succ posted:why did Sera spend all that time and effort looking for Rachel when she just gives up at the end and tells Chloe to lie to her? If you take Rachel's bracelet in Episode 2, make the right choices during the conversation (the whole thing is kind of like a stealth Backtalk section only it's presented like a normal conversation) and/or give the bracelet to Sera when she's leaving there's a little extra scene during the ending where Sera meets Rachel and Chloe at the lighthouse and the two are finally reunited. Still kind of weird though. I posted this earlier but here's a video that goes through the whole process needed for this to happen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8xj4cFW7NM Larryb fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 19:05
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succ posted:why did Sera spend all that time and effort looking for Rachel when she just gives up at the end and tells Chloe to lie to her? She really, really likes Heroin
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Dec 20, 2017 19:15
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Echoing everyone's comments that this was the weakest episode of the series. I'm not sure if it was just because I didn't engage with this episode as much as the others, but all the choices seemed a bit arbitrary. Looking at people's responses here I think that is true. Did it matter if I took the photograph or not? Well no, David doesn't show up again, he's still an rear end in a top hat at the start of LIS. Does it matter who I blame? Well no, apparently it never comes up again. Does it matter if I tell the truth or lie? Well no, Rachel and Chloe are still together. Some elements were fun (the D&D bits as always), but beyond that I think it was hamstrung by being a prequel. I knew nothing terrible could happen to Rachel. There was no danger in confronting Damon. Eliot doesn't show up in the rest of the series. The writing for certain characters was also pretty bad. It's a shame, but hopefully the bonus episode will be better. Time to go back and play the original.
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Dec 20, 2017 19:15
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I honestly completely forgot about the photo thing with david, that's how little it matters.
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Dec 20, 2017 19:17
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The photo choice with David is more like "confirming what the player already thinks about the character." If you think David is deep down a good person despite being an intrusive rear end in a top hat, then taking the photo gives that impression. If you refuse the photo because you think David is a fascist dick, then he immediately gets nasty with Chloe. The option is there to reassure the player that their pre-existing perspective on David was the right one.
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Dec 20, 2017 19:22
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Paul Zuvella posted:I honestly completely forgot about the photo thing with david, that's how little it matters. I actually really liked that scene. I played Chloe COMPLETELY abrasive to David the entire time but this was the first time David was, no only 100% real with her, but also attempted to connect with her in any REAL way. I don't care that that choice didn't amount to anything, just as a character moment I loved it.
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Dec 20, 2017 19:22
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Not gonna lie I did hesitate for a second there but ultimately I slampicked REFUSE because that's how Bluebeard rolls biatches.
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Dec 20, 2017 19:24
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Macaluso posted:I actually really liked that scene. I played Chloe COMPLETELY abrasive to David the entire time but this was the first time David was, no only 100% real with her, but also attempted to connect with her in any REAL way. I don't care that that choice didn't amount to anything, just as a character moment I loved it. That's why I decided to accept the photo. Yeah it doesn't help much seeing as three years later he's barging into her room and loving hitting her (not to mention spying on his new family with hidden surveillance cameras) but I give him points for making a legitimate effort at least. Larryb fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 19:49
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EvilHawk posted:Echoing everyone's comments that this was the weakest episode of the series. What those choices do is affect how you perceive and interpret the story. Does Rachel know the truth or not? Those are big implications for you to assemble your own headcannon about what Chloe is thinking or feeling during Life is Strange. In my opinion, if you're waiting for BTS to gamify your choices by altering the story at this point, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Torgo2727 fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 20:23
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I quite liked this episode, certainly much more than s1e5. I'll admit, several scenes didn't quite gel with me. (Burning the evidence and stealing the money seemed too...stakes-less? And Eliot's confrontation, didn't seem to add much to the story, though I felt the same way about Shadow Max in the diner too. And count me in with the people who were baffled by the Sera scene not being a dream sequence.) The bits I liked felt much stronger though, and as a whole it felt tighter than LiS. Chloe's conversations with her Dad were all great to watch, and I loved the themes of holding on to fantasy/accepting painful truth. Seeing David and Joyce dancing while Chloe is sitting in the dark stairwell, framed by the bars of the banister. Watching Rachel and Chloe take the pictures Max finds in the first episode. I didn't mind the stinger, but I can't argue that it's not gratuitous. All in all, I like it better than S1. LoseHound fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 21:25
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I think a better way to handle the end that I saw someone suggest was to have the stinger be Chloe putting up the missing person posters. Same general idea the end stinger wants to get across, but I feel would've felt less... gross.
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Dec 20, 2017 21:35
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