FlamingLiberal posted:Sadly i’m sure they couldn’t use HYDRA for this movie Disney can't use HYDRA?
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Dec 20, 2017 14:42
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| # ? May 11, 2024 17:49 |
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ArmyOfMidgets posted:Disney can't use HYDRA? Disney most definitely could. But I am not sure the deal will have gone through by the time this movie is done.
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Dec 20, 2017 14:53
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Had a thought earlier, while there's no way we're likely to get a full movie of FF or any other newly acquired properties under the Marvel banner before 2020, what do you suppose the chances are that we get some kind of cameo in a stinger at the end of Infinity War?
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Dec 20, 2017 15:23
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Probably zero.
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Dec 20, 2017 15:30
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Infinity War is already done, it's all post-production now. Maybe something at the end of whatever Avengers 4 is going to be called.
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Dec 20, 2017 15:33
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CzarChasm posted:Had a thought earlier, while there's no way we're likely to get a full movie of FF or any other newly acquired properties under the Marvel banner before 2020, what do you suppose the chances are that we get some kind of cameo in a stinger at the end of Infinity War? With how long the regulatory stuff is going to take, not really possible.
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Dec 20, 2017 15:33
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The soonest we could probably get any kind of stinger in a movie w/reference to Fox properties is 2019 with Captain Marvel. Disney and Fox don't expect this to be final (if it even goes through) until at least late 2018. Until that time, Disney will certainly hedge their bets and leave Fox properties out in the cold if for no other reason than to keep them devalued to keep Fox from wanting to pull out.
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Dec 20, 2017 15:53
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And Captain Marvel has the skrulls, which the named ones of belong to Fox, so the timing works out perfectly in that one
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Dec 20, 2017 17:25
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How fast could they have an insert showing the Xavier institute during some "look at how far reaching poo poo is?"
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Dec 20, 2017 17:45
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CzarChasm posted:Had a thought earlier, while there's no way we're likely to get a full movie of FF or any other newly acquired properties under the Marvel banner before 2020, what do you suppose the chances are that we get some kind of cameo in a stinger at the end of Infinity War? A burly white guy steps up in front of the camera and yells out "Thing Ring, do your thing!"
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Dec 20, 2017 18:01
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Samuringa posted:Infinity War is already done, it's all post-production now. Maybe something at the end of whatever Avengers 4 is going to be called. I mean, yes, but there's definitely enough time to do a quick like couple weeks of reshoots for a like post-credits teaser on IW, especially if it's like Nick Fury saying "We have to call in the mutants", or Nick Fury looking though old SHIELD memorabilia and finding a faded FF costume, or so on. I mean, they're not doing that, that's literally millions of dollars for a like two minute scene at most, but it's definitely possible considering DC Studios did substantial reshoots on JL earlier this year.
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Dec 20, 2017 19:29
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Why would they want to do anything the DC movie dumpster fire does?
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Dec 20, 2017 19:37
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Almost every big budget picture does massive reshoots at this point. They workprint it, then focus test it, then based on that will usually rework it to accentuate the things people liked while downplaying what they didn't as best they can. Sometimes this works very well (Rogue One and Force Awakens had people worried a lot because they both went through massive reshoots) and sometimes it doesn't at all (Justice League).
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Dec 20, 2017 19:47
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We don't actually know that. The reshoots might have been what gave it the few positives it has.
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Dec 20, 2017 19:50
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We do know from the moustache, and the reshoots are honestly some of the better material, though they're also the parts that bizarrely pretend Superman was always a good, fun dude.
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Dec 20, 2017 19:52
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Aphrodite posted:We don't actually know that. The reshoots might have been what gave it the few positives it has. Yeah, I worded that poorly. Though with Justice League, you can plainly tell which Superman scenes were reshoots simply by the bad CGI of his face (in other words, pretty much all of Superman's scenes).
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Dec 20, 2017 20:09
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Maybe they're going to save the FF or Mutant teaser for Infinity War 2? Maybe Earth is destroyed or ravaged and then someone will use the Infinity Gauntlet to make an All-New All-Different Earth.
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Dec 20, 2017 20:28
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Maybe just keep them separate? That way they can take different approaches in style and story structure. Have FF and X-Men cross over with each other and sort of be their own thing. Even set it in the 60's or 70's. Unlikely, sure, but I don't think it's a bad idea.
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Dec 20, 2017 20:32
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BiggerBoat posted:Maybe just keep them separate? That way they can take different approaches in style and story structure. Have FF and X-Men cross over with each other and sort of be their own thing. Even set it in the 60's or 70's. Something I'm wondering, but would the X-Men's tone even really fit into the current MCU? I mean, their deal is that the world hates and fears them because they're born and develop these amazing powers, right? And the world still loves the Avengers, last I checked. Hell, even Spider-Man isn't treated like a menace in his film, but as a local hero that everyone likes.
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Dec 20, 2017 20:41
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amigolupus posted:Something I'm wondering, but would the X-Men's tone even really fit into the current MCU? I mean, their deal is that the world hates and fears them because they're born and develop these amazing powers, right? And the world still loves the Avengers, last I checked. Hell, even Spider-Man isn't treated like a menace in his film, but as a local hero that everyone likes. This is basically the case in the comics for years though. The double standard of the adoration given to heroes like the Avengers compared to the publics distrust of the X-Men is a major part of the whole metaphor. That's why in Ultimates they are telling the world that Wasp got her powers from a science experiment when she's actually a mutant. Even in 616 they put Wolverine on the Avengers so your average person could see him chilling with Captain America and think "maybe mutants are cool after all". I think the dichotomy helps sell the X-Men as outcasts better.
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Dec 20, 2017 21:13
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amigolupus posted:Something I'm wondering, but would the X-Men's tone even really fit into the current MCU? I mean, their deal is that the world hates and fears them because they're born and develop these amazing powers, right? And the world still loves the Avengers, last I checked. Hell, even Spider-Man isn't treated like a menace in his film, but as a local hero that everyone likes. I've mentioned this basically every time it's brought up, but: quote:The mutants, up until Whenever Disney Gets the License Back, have been hidden from view by a combination of Professor X, Jean Grey, or both, with either or both of them using Cerebro or something like it to cast a memory alteration "spell" over the world so everyone forgets mutants exist. Unfortunately, some sort of threat or disease specifically and solely targeting mutants forces Prof X to seek outside help, dropping the facade. This 1) reintroduces the mutants, 2) explains why nobody ever mentioned them up to this point, 3) keeps everything that happened to them in FOX-verse variously canonical depending on if Marvel/Disney wants to keep it, and 4) actually makes the rest of humanity hate and fear the mutants, because they've basically been introduced by admitting they've been tampering with everyone's brains, which is both an extreme violation and an impression of how powerful mutants can be. It basically solves all canon problems simultaneously while also firmly Otherizing and marginalizing mutants, which is what their status must be for their stories to work. This is directly in response to "how can the Fox canon be folded into the MCU in a way that makes sense", but if they just decide to straight-up reintroduce mutants they can just reintroduce Professor X as a guy who has been, up to that point, basically mind-wiping the entire world and/or have Jean Grey suddenly inherit the Phoenix Force. Because, yeah, for the mutants to work in any media they have to be both persecuted and a minority, and as it currently stands in the MCU the only way to do that is for them to do something both bad and on such a breathtakingly huge scale that it would make people instantaneously fear mutants as both potentially amoral actors and as so mind-bogglingly powerful that there's a legitimate concern they could destroy us at any second. Debuting Professor X as some telepath who can basically enslave the whole world if he so wanted or Jean Grey as basically the same thing but with a crazy killer god inside of her accomplishes either.
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Dec 20, 2017 21:17
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I've never really followed X-Men in the comics but did they ever try to explain the seeming double standard of liking superheroes but hating mutants by making the X-Men generally palatable to the public when they're big flashy superheroes but making mutants hated and feared when they're regular members of the community? Like I don't want to torture the real world analogies too much but in reality you can have people who love black entertainers but wouldn't give a black person a job, or they can laugh along with the flamboyant theatrics of gay men on a sitcom but would disown their own son if he came out of the closet. Edit: But also I can see why mutants might be feared because nobody is safe from becoming one. If the general public understands most superheroes to be people who were intentionally made that way (and nobody knows Spider-Man's origin) then mutants are scarier because your kid might suddenly manifest crazy powers. And rationally you couldn't blame existing mutants for that but if you're scared then fear turns to anger, etc. Lobok fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 21:21
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Ojjeorago posted:Why would they want to do anything the DC movie dumpster fire does? remember how Lord and Miller's Han Solo movie no longer has Lord and Miller attached?
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Dec 20, 2017 21:23
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purple death ray posted:This is basically the case in the comics for years though. The double standard of the adoration given to heroes like the Avengers compared to the publics distrust of the X-Men is a major part of the whole metaphor. That's why in Ultimates they are telling the world that Wasp got her powers from a science experiment when she's actually a mutant. I think the Big Difference and why that, rather pat, explanation doesn't work within the confines of the MCU is that the mutants were there from the beginning of the 616 and were basically introduced as a hated and feared race of people, especially if you consider Giant-Size X-Men/Uncanny as the "true" beginning of the X-Men (even though you can see elements of the "X-Men are minority representation" in the original run). It was basically presented as a conceit that you had to buy into to read the comic, so it's an inherent part of suspension of disbelief. Questioning why the X-Men and mutants are hated in the 616 when the Avengers are adored is like questioning why doesn't Peter Parker just sell his web-fluid and make way more money, be way more financially secure, and overall do more overall good with the fortune he would make than being a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man; the conceit is he's a ground-level superhero, and not a millionaire, so he just doesn't do so. In the MCU though the mutants haven't been around, so unless they just do a MASSIVE retcon and just pretend that mutants were always there (which would actually be pretty cool), the mutants have to be introduced into the universe, which means they arrive after people seem more-or-less fine and even accepting of superheroes, which means that there has to be a justification, no matter how flimsy, of why people hate mutants. It's the problem with them not being there from the beginning; unless they pretend like they always were, you can't just do what Marvel did re: mutants and use "people hate them" as a fundamental building block of MCU mutant stories. Because they weren't, and aren't. Lobok posted:I've never really followed X-Men in the comics but did they ever try to explain the seeming double standard of liking superheroes but hating mutants by making the X-Men generally palatable to the public when they're big flashy superheroes but making mutants hated and feared when they're regular members of the community? Like I don't want to torture the real world analogies too much but in reality you can have people who love black entertainers but wouldn't give a black person a job, or they can laugh along with the flamboyant theatrics of gay men on a sitcom but would disown their own son if he came out of the closet. Dazzler's whole deal is basically literally this. She's one of "the good ones".
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Dec 20, 2017 21:29
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If thanos uses the infinity gauntlet to gently caress with the universe they can just say mutations started because of that
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Dec 20, 2017 21:33
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Avengers work with government + saved the world a bunch = people are ok with them Mutants are a bunch of weirdos with no oversight + never saved the world yet = people not okay with them That's really all they'd need to do
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Dec 20, 2017 21:55
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but the avengers also worked with shield who was also hydra
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Dec 20, 2017 22:11
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Mutants save the world like all the ding dang ol time. They save it from like, other mutants.
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Dec 20, 2017 22:15
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Did we miss the whole civil war thing where the avengers broke up over govt oversight
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Dec 20, 2017 22:18
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The X-Men characters work fine in the context of the broader Marvel Universe, but I've always thought that the concept would work better in a self-contained universe where mutation is the sole source of superpowers. Various writers have attempted over the years to explain why mutants are so much more hated and feared than people who acquire superpowers by other means, but I've never found any of those explanations terribly convincing. Yeah, bigotry is rarely rational, but there's literally no outward difference between mutants and other superpowered humans. It just doesn't seem like a distinction that any bigot would actually bother to draw.
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Dec 20, 2017 22:21
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Not mutant supers would get treated the same way islamaphobes in America treat Sikhs
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Dec 20, 2017 22:43
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People don't hate or fear "X-Men" they hate and fear mutants. Every teenager going through mutant puberty has the potential to have a serious accident discovering their powers and hurt or kill innocent bystanders. If the MCU wants to say mutants have been around a while but in low enough numbers that the public isn't aware and let's say some catastrophic event (Thanos)caused our evolution to jump a bit, the mutant scare could be a new thing. Just because people are cool with the Avengers doing 9/11 (Civil War pointed out that they kinda aren't) doesn't mean that they can't panic when mutant bar mitzvahs start popping off in their own back yard. Edit: It's going to be hilarious when Ms Marvel is reworked to be a mutant because the Inhuman brand is spoiled. Sgt. Politeness fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 23:05
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The MCU has been filling this niche with the Inhumans ever since the Terrigen went worldwide. Complete with right wing paramilitary groups that want to kill them on sight. You’ve even got the “anyone could manifest at anytime” angle too.
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Dec 20, 2017 23:09
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site posted:Did we miss the whole civil war thing where the avengers broke up over govt oversight How was that resolved anyway? I'm pretty sure I saw the movie but all I remember is Tonys mom got killed or something and then he punched captain america It's retarded to have heroes like Thor and Hulk without at least having them cooperate with the government of the country they're blowing poo poo up in
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Dec 20, 2017 23:12
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You'd pretty much have to treat super powers the way society treat guns; ok in the "right" hands, like soldiers and cops, but frightening in the "wrong", like gangs and terrorists. It helps that most superheros in the current MCU either work directly with the government, like the core Avengers, or keep a low profile, like the various magic users or Defenders. Likewise, most work primarily in big cities, so most of America doesn't expect to find them hanging around their back yard. So, while they may consider Captain America and Iron Man heroes, that doesn't mean their going to just trust the punk neighbor kid when they start shooting laser beams or moving things with their mind.
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Dec 20, 2017 23:13
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Zzulu posted:How was that resolved anyway? It wasn't. They split up and Team Cap are still fugitives.
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Dec 20, 2017 23:22
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What was captain america-mans argument again?
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Dec 20, 2017 23:27
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Eventually Donald trump is gonna be your boss
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Dec 20, 2017 23:29
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Zzulu posted:What was captain america-mans argument again? He loves Bucky. And what if Hydra again? Also freedom. (He was going to sign despite all his other objections until he found out Tony had Wanda under house arrest.)
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Dec 20, 2017 23:41
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site posted:Eventually Donald trump is gonna be your boss More accurately "Eventually the UN will be full of Donald Trumps" Aphrodite posted:(He was going to sign despite all his other objections until he found out Tony had Wanda under house arrest.) Which is pretty petty in the grand scheme of things.
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Dec 20, 2017 23:57
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