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Xae posted:The idea of using any type of formation when there are people who can cast chain lighting or fireball is dumb as gently caress. As opposed to when you're being shelled by cannons. E: Again, the official reason is because halberds are metal, which I accept since they totally are.
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Dec 20, 2017 20:27
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Night10194 posted:As opposed to when you're being shelled by cannons. Cannons aren't as accurate or devastating. Note that when they became that devastating in real life no one fought in formation any more.
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Dec 20, 2017 20:30
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Warhammer FB but Arcanum happens.
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Dec 20, 2017 20:31
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Dandywalken posted:Warhammer FB but Arcanum happens. That always seemed like the logical next step, anyway: Warhammer Industrial Battle or whatever.
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Dec 20, 2017 20:38
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Much unlike places such as Switzerland, home of the pike block and renowned for its wide open fields, or Bavaria or Austria or even the Czech Republic, also known for their grassy steppe. Yes, Switzerland. Aka the place that's mountains and... wide open fields in the shadows of said mountains, with something like 90% of the people and practically anything of actual relevance and value being in said latter parts. And similarily, it's funny how the rise of pike warfare just happened to coincide with the beginning of large-scale deforestation in places like Bavaria, Austria and the Czech Republic - places which, mind you, were at their worst comparable with the nicer parts of the Empire. IE, the parts that background-wise do see use of pikemen. Now how many troll-size or larger gribblies were roaming around Switzerland at that time again? And how big was the chance that marching an army through any random forest could end up in a few thousand local Beastmen and whatever other things decided to tag along with them deciding to go bushwhacking said army? Or that your pike block would end up facing a mob of 400+-pound musclebound assholes covered in enough armor to be functionally immune to being stabbed? quote:Pikes are not included for very reasonable reasons, not because pike and shot would be lame and OP in tabletop game from 1980 That's a nice theory and all, but it runs into a little issue. That being that pike and shot was entirely doable on the tabletop (either by using the Dogs of War pike units in an Empire army or going pike&crossbow via a pure Dogs of War lineup) and that it was not exactly "lame and OP", either. quote:There were no decades-long conflicts in hilly areas defined by pike and shot formations. Not one of those has ever happened. Warhammer makes sense. yep. Unironically, yes. Pike units in any actual battle near-religiously kept themselves to flat areas because a pike unit trying to fight on broken ground will pretty quickly gets its poo poo ruined by practically any other kind of infantry. But hey, I guess all game developers ever are just completely unthinking idiots and we must always try to poo poo on anything they do in an obnoxious, passive-aggressive manner. Under no circumstances should anyone ever be allowed to try and make sense of a fantasy game world and rationalise anything in it. After all, where would we be if fiction made any sense? Magni fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 20:48
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Any advancing of Hams' timeline should've been primarily done for the inclusion of even fancier uniforms and new hats.
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Dec 20, 2017 20:49
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Xae posted:The idea of using any type of formation when there are people who can cast chain lighting or fireball is dumb as gently caress. This is why the Empire has marksmen equipped with scoped and rifled long guns. e: For real, though, I'd love to see a Imperial Gunnery School/College of Engineers themed DLC. They have armored handgunners that use hochland long rifles, the repeaters and grenade launchers that outriders get, hand grenades, and the Imperial Engineers ride around on robot horses. turn off the TV fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 20:55
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Cool thing on the Tomb Kings stream/CA Reddit posts: Arkhan has a unique building chain that allows him to recruit some basic VC units and one powerful one. Also, you can't confederate with Settra because he does not serve.
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Dec 20, 2017 21:09
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MilitantBlackGuy posted:Cool thing on the Tomb Kings stream/CA Reddit posts: Arkhan has a unique building chain that allows him to recruit some basic VC units and one powerful one. I was a little worried that as a DLC faction they'd end up feeling like a bit of an afterthought, but so far they seem at least as good as the main factions. Getting rid of the mini-campaign and just focusing on implementing them in the main campaign was a good call.
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Dec 20, 2017 21:19
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Magni posted:Yes, Switzerland. Aka the place that's mountains and... wide open fields in the shadows of said mountains, with something like 90% of the people and practically anything of actual relevance and value being in said latter parts. And similarily, it's funny how the rise of pike warfare just happened to coincide with the beginning of large-scale deforestation in places like Bavaria, Austria and the Czech Republic - places which, mind you, were at their worst comparable with the nicer parts of the Empire. IE, the parts that background-wise do see use of pikemen. there is not a single god damned thing about mummies in this post and you should be ashamed of that
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Dec 20, 2017 21:21
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MilitantBlackGuy posted:Cool thing on the Tomb Kings stream/CA Reddit posts: Arkhan has a unique building chain that allows him to recruit some basic VC units and one powerful one. Apparently Khalida starts in Lybaras in ME, too. That's going to be quite the clusterfuck.
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Dec 20, 2017 21:23
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Getting fired up for Tomb Kings, making me wonder if I should go back and grab some of the DLC for 1 I missed. Chaos, Beastmen, and Grim and Grave. Grim and Grave seems real light on content, and from what I hear Chaos and Beastmen aren't particularly fun in ME?
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Dec 20, 2017 21:41
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Yarrington posted:Getting fired up for Tomb Kings, making me wonder if I should go back and grab some of the DLC for 1 I missed. Chaos, Beastmen, and Grim and Grave. Grim and Grave seems real light on content, and from what I hear Chaos and Beastmen aren't particularly fun in ME? I'd wait until Norsca get fixed to buy Chaos, just because they obviously interact a lot.
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Dec 20, 2017 21:47
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Chaos in ME seems like it could be a serious slog if only because you would be spending so much time waiting for the AI to process its turns.
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Dec 20, 2017 21:57
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turn off the TV posted:Apparently Khalida starts in Lybaras in ME, too. That's going to be quite the clusterfuck. Ugh, chariots on those jungle maps
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Dec 20, 2017 22:04
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Its Rinaldo posted:Ugh, chariots on those jungle maps Chariots aren't really her thing so it's not a big issue, she's into archers and constructs.
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Dec 20, 2017 22:07
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Panfilo posted:How would the AI manage it? Part of the problem is the AI doesn't demolish buildings. Seems like you could utterly cripple a TK faction simply by spamming 'damage building' agent ability on their settlements
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Dec 20, 2017 22:35
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Which book is the one with the barbarian queen being duped by the junk-khopesh? I need to read this for reasons.
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Dec 20, 2017 23:02
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Zore posted:Cannons aren't as accurate or devastating. They did though, in fact people fought in formation in the fuckin 100 years war to the 30 years war to the american civil war to ww1... and yes, they used formations in the great war and it wasn't bc they were OH SO DUMB. Turns out moving in formation is good and useful. hams is goofy and all but don't spread dumb pop history in the ham thread under my watch. We even use formations here in TYOOL 2017 in Afghanistan or donbas or Syria. Formation works.
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Dec 20, 2017 23:03
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Innerguard posted:Which book is the one with the barbarian queen being duped by the junk-khopesh? I need to read this for reasons. Gortrek and Felix: The Serpent Queen.
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Dec 20, 2017 23:28
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Please don't bring tactical realism into a warhams thread
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Dec 20, 2017 23:47
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turn off the TV posted:This is why the Empire has marksmen equipped with scoped and rifled long guns. Agreed. If there's one thing the AI Empire comps are missing, it's even more annoying ranged poo poo to Benny Hill across the battlefield (see also: outriders, pistoleers, handgunners, crossbow dark riders, norsca, and 90% of the WE roster). It isn't annoying at all to have to bring 5 units of cav and put the battle on fast forward so you don't need to chase them to the ends of the Earth with infantry. I'd also love to see ranged be less effective than it is (more like TT) and do less morale damage, but that's what Boyz Will Be Boyz is for
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Dec 20, 2017 23:52
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The actual reason for the Empire not using pikes is because they are a Tilean and Estalian thing, it would be the same as admitting that these fuckers are better than the men of the Empire at warfare and we cannot have that.
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Dec 20, 2017 23:54
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evol262 posted:Agreed. If there's one thing the AI Empire comps are missing, it's even more annoying ranged poo poo to Benny Hill across the battlefield (see also: outriders, pistoleers, handgunners, crossbow dark riders, norsca, and 90% of the WE roster). Is there any reason you couldn't bring ranged for some reason? Basically any semblance of ranged infantry will see off almost any skirmish cav. I agree that its a little annoying how archers can get range/RoF/damage/accuracy bonuses with lords, tech, vet, etc, while anti-ranged units just kind of stay static. Even light cav starts falling off a bit in general. e: I'd rather see it doing more morale damage but decrease accuracy in general. That way it'd still be a decent counter to larger targets like monsters, etc while being less effective against general troops. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Dec 21, 2017 |
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Dec 21, 2017 00:00
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evol262 posted:
This mod seems cool. Hadn't heard of it before.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:05
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Do ITT people not realize that pikes were used against armored warhorses for centuries? There's not much an orc brings to the table that a plate-clad knight doesn't.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:09
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unwantedplatypus posted:Do ITT people not realize that pikes were used against armored warhorses for centuries? There's not much an orc brings to the table that a plate-clad knight doesn't. An orc is like twice as strong as a man, significantly tougher when is comes to a wound debilitating them and regenerates wounds quickly. So mano e orco a plate clad knight would be able to fight an orc, but the orc is just as likely to stove in his helmet with a rock. Orcs would merrily knock aside pikes and eat the odd death to get to the chewy man middle of a pike formation.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:11
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Yeah, if I recall, one of the big deals about Pike formations is that horses and poo poo don't really want to charge them, and that's part of their effectiveness, Orcs... much... braver, shall we say.
I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:18
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I mean they can also just yank the pikeman out of formation pretty easily. Or just the pike. Idk. Maybe OP should ask the milhist thread why pike formations aren't used in Warhammer.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:20
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Please stop trying to compare Warhammer combat to historical combat. It's extremely stupid and pointless
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Dec 21, 2017 00:20
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This is my favourite thread
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Dec 21, 2017 00:26
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Rygar201 posted:Please stop trying to compare Warhammer combat to historical combat. It's extremely stupid and pointless More or less stupid and pointless than the highelves ME campaign?
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Dec 21, 2017 00:28
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I unironically want a pike and shot mod for empire now.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:30
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Rygar201 posted:Please stop trying to compare Warhammer combat to historical combat. It's extremely stupid and pointless It's fun, you joyless L'Anguillian peasant.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:30
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JBP posted:An orc is like twice as strong as a man, significantly tougher when is comes to a wound debilitating them and regenerates wounds quickly. So mano e orco a plate clad knight would be able to fight an orc, but the orc is just as likely to stove in his helmet with a rock. Orcs would merrily knock aside pikes and eat the odd death to get to the chewy man middle of a pike formation. Pike and shot warfare didn't intend for the pikemen to be fighting lots of infantry, that what the shot, cavalry, swords and halberds were for. The goal of the pike and shot formation was to defeat infantry with firepower before they could reach the pikes, while the pikes defended the guns from cavalry. If infantry did make it to the pikes then they would bust out the swords and halberds.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:38
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JBP posted:It's fun, you joyless L'Anguillian peasant. The people of L'Anguille are known for their revolutionary ferver, not being boring. That would be the people of Aquitaine, where the province is so boring that they turn to civil war just to have something to do.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:47
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Re tomb king mechanics, it would be interesting to see some sorta combination of Dawn of War Necrons, and Age of Empires 3 Ottomans: you can't build certain units, but they spawn for free on a timer. You can increase the speed of the timer with certain buildings and techs. You still need to pay for elite units, but you've got this base of free skeletons just constantly appearing at the closest available stack.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:51
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Total War: Warhammer 2 - Settra Ek's Revenge
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Dec 21, 2017 00:54
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What's the go-to mod right now to stop the blue tide? I want to restart my campaign but don't want half the old world covered by the Dwarfs faction by turn 80.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:59
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Ynglaur posted:What's the go-to mod right now to stop the blue tide? I want to restart my campaign but don't want half the old world covered by the Dwarfs faction by turn 80. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1208360552 http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1188012713 I've used either of these from turn 1 and they still seem to be pretty tough. Greenskins still dead before turn 50 on my 4 different ME campaigns the past month lol. Also Skaven, barely see any Skaven armies while on Vortex Skrolk was really rocking it with numerous armies.
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Dec 21, 2017 01:24
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