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evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

Is the housing crisis in San Francisco caused by the same logistical limitations as seen in Manhattan or are other things at work there?

That's mostly caused by San Francisco utterly refusing to rezone enough areas for high-rise apartment buildings so they pack people very inefficiently into their available space.

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The Glumslinger
Sep 24, 2008

Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?


Hair Elf

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

Is the housing crisis in San Francisco caused by the same logistical limitations as seen in Manhattan or are other things at work there?

Sf's is largely caused because idiots think that SF needs to keep the charm of a small city and that means no new construction over 4 stories except in very select parts of town.

Its so dumb

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

evilweasel posted:

That's mostly caused by San Francisco utterly refusing to rezone enough areas for high-rise apartment buildings so they pack people very inefficiently into their available space.

So what are the excuses Bay Area people make against building a ton of big apartment buildings? It's something entirely selfish I'm sure.

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

So what are the excuses Bay Area people make against building a ton of big apartment buildings? It's something entirely selfish I'm sure.

MAH COMMUNITY

KickerOfMice
Jun 7, 2017

[/color]Keep firing, assholes![/color]

Spaceballs the custom title.
Fun Shoe

The Glumslinger posted:

Sf's is largely caused because idiots think that SF needs to keep the charm of a small city and that means no new construction over 4 stories except in very select parts of town.

Its so dumb

That is something a suburban homeowner's association would posit.

e- Not so much dumb as a thunderingly worthless rule.

KickerOfMice fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Dec 21, 2017

HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011

Increased crime, “those people,” neighborhood charm, too much local traffic, too much noise, etc.

I live in a NorCal city that has some issues with developing and I’ve attended planning committee meetings.

Star Man
Jun 1, 2008

There's a star maaaaaan
Over the rainbow

evilweasel posted:

Manhattan is bounded by water on two sides, so it has less ability to expand out and diffuse property prices. There are also a number of industries where it's basically you live in NYC, or you don't work in that industry (or don't work at a high level) at all. And the subway system - which is very good in Manhattan, less good outside Manhattan, and pretty Manhattan-centric where it's good outside Manhattan (basically all lines converge on Manhattan and there are few subway lines that travel between the outer boroughs without crossing through Manhattan first) - means that living in Manhattan is miles more convenient than anywhere else. The complete inability to drive in Manhattan also means that if you want to live outside it, you're limited to places with good transit into Manhattan. And, of course, almost all the main jobs are in Manhattan.

Manhattan's just not that big compared to, like, Wyoming. Basically every square inch of land is used, there's just not any more short of building new residential highrises (which took a serious beating in the financial crisis, and it's only been relatively recent that any besides high-end expensive poo poo started getting built again). Plus, apparently people have been using dirty money funneled through LLC's for years to purchase Manhattan real estate since nobody paid close attention to that sort of thing until very recently pushing up very high-end property prices and incentivizing the development of more high-end places compared to more moderately priced places.

I mean, don't get me wrong: people paying those rents are not poor. They're doing alright for themselves, they should not be complaining that they're poor. But they're not really paying for luxury, they're paying for the ability to live in the city they work in.

I don't think people paying three grand a month to live in Manhattan are living in fat mansions and like I said: I understand and accept that some places cost more to live than others.

I just think it's loving crazy to look at the average price of a studio in Manhatten and think, "Yes, $2.5k per month is acceptable."

Nothus
Feb 22, 2001

Buglord
Stalling and nimbying everything also pumps up their own property values astronomically. They're selfish and shortsighted, but not stupid.

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.
I've always had a huge thing for those conceptual mega structures that house like 100,000 people. I hope we see some of that in our lifetime. Though I expect they'd be an awful idea compared to just new efficiently planned and designed neighborhoods.

Dmitri-9
Nov 30, 2004

There's something really sexy about Scrooge McDuck. I love Uncle Scrooge.

KickerOfMice posted:

RE: gentrification, I learned recently that here in my transplant hometown (Pittsburgh) The entire Hill District was bulldozed to make space for a bigass parking lot and the hockey team's new arena. Yeah that was one of the black neighborhoods, absolutely houses and little shops. It's been going on for quite a while, there are just craft-beer craving Amazon employees living in gentrified neighborhoods now.

:(

e- http://wesa.fm/post/what-do-pittsburgh-penguins-have-do-affordable-housing#stream/0

Heres a good explainer re parking requirements and how they make urbanism impossible

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/11/20/we-forbid-what-we-value-most

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

A real hellraiser


Shimrra Jamaane posted:

I've always had a huge thing for those conceptual mega structures that house like 100,000 people. I hope we see some of that in our lifetime. Though I expect they'd be an awful idea compared to just new efficiently planned and designed neighborhoods.

An arkology, I believe

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

Star Man posted:

I don't think people paying three grand a month to live in Manhattan are living in fat mansions and like I said: I understand and accept that some places cost more to live than others.

I just think it's loving crazy to look at the average price of a studio in Manhatten and think, "Yes, $2.5k per month is acceptable."

Many people don't! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_Is_Too_Damn_High_Party

Sadly, just because you don't find it acceptable doesn't mean a lot to the landlords :v:

Burning_Monk
Jan 11, 2005
Mad, Bad, and Dangerous to know

Al Borland Corp. posted:

An arkology, I believe

Arcology, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcology

Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004

The Trump-Haley version of 'you're either with us or against us' is going about as well as it did for Bush.

https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/943877719292563456

Nothus
Feb 22, 2001

Buglord
I think a better question is why an industry built on a global communications network feels the insatiable need to cram everyone into a single smallish city on a geologically unstable peninsula.

turnip kid
May 24, 2010
https://twitter.com/seanhannity/status/943881108810293249

lol

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

Nothus posted:

I think a better question is why an industry built on a global communications network feels the insatiable need to cram everyone into a single smallish city on a geologically unstable peninsula.

That's where the people with the skills they need are. The company might be just as happy having their offices in Nebraska or the like, but the employees don't feel like moving there and Nebraska doesn't have the people.

Invalid Validation
Jan 13, 2008




Saw on Facebook some people justifying tax cuts cause it helps small business too! Like maybe all three of them left in the state. You don't have to just go along with everything because it's a republican thing. God just think for yourselves for once.

The Glumslinger
Sep 24, 2008

Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?


Hair Elf

Nothus posted:

I think a better question is why an industry built on a global communications network feels the insatiable need to cram everyone into a single smallish city on a geologically unstable peninsula.

Because in person meetings are way more effective

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.
I'm talking about the X-Seed 4000

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Seed_4000

The Macaroni
Dec 20, 2002
...it does nothing.

Squalid posted:

I’m not sure toll bridges are a good example of bad Republican policy since they are actually fairly progressive in the sense they disproportionately fall on wealthier people who drive more and farther while being less likely to use public transit. Cleaning up on Virginian commuters certainly isn’t bad fiscal policy.
Don't confuse toll highways with toll bridges. There are alternate routes to toll highways, even if they're slower or less direct. But unless you have a jetpack or hovercraft, you don't always have a way to get over rivers that dodges a toll. This is one of the reasons Hogan has popularity in rural areas.

Example A: the $4 toll on I-95 at the Maryland/Delaware border is entirely optional. If you're ok adding 15 minutes to your trip, there are multiple routes around it.

Example B: there are exactly three road routes over the Susquehanna river. Two have an $8 toll (with commuter plans that reduce the cost by orders of magnitude). The third option takes you over a two lane road through rural Pennsylvania. If you're driving from Baltimore to anywhere north, going the third option will add 45-60 minutes to your trip each way, assuming the weather is ok and the local roads aren't iced/snowed/flooded out.

Gynocentric Regime
Jun 9, 2010

by Cyrano4747

Nothus posted:

I think a better question is why an industry built on a global communications network feels the insatiable need to cram everyone into a single smallish city on a geologically unstable peninsula.

Same reason entertainment fled NY in the early 80s and went to LA, then in late 90s and early 00s flooded back. Everyone agrees it's the place to be if you are in tech and so it is, it's got "the juice".

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Invalid Validation posted:

Saw on Facebook some people justifying tax cuts cause it helps small business too! Like maybe all three of them left in the state. You don't have to just go along with everything because it's a republican thing. God just think for yourselves for once.

Small Business = Any S Corp.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

The Glumslinger posted:

Because in person meetings are way more effective

Also, many people just plain don't like working remotely because it can feel isolating.

Dmitri-9
Nov 30, 2004

There's something really sexy about Scrooge McDuck. I love Uncle Scrooge.

Nothus posted:

I think a better question is why an industry built on a global communications network feels the insatiable need to cram everyone into a single smallish city on a geologically unstable peninsula.

It has a very desirable climate, and like most of california there are beaches and mountains close to eachother.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004


Could he be any better at obliterating his own points? Like, does he practice?

CuddleCryptid
Jan 11, 2013

Things could be going better

Bicyclops posted:

Could he be any better at obliterating his own points? Like, does he practice?

Hannity is a big believer in martial arts, where the first thing you have to master is how to safely faceplant.

Tatsuta Age
Apr 21, 2005

so good at being in trouble


The Glumslinger posted:

Because in person meetings are way more effective

So move the whole office location

KickerOfMice
Jun 7, 2017

[/color]Keep firing, assholes![/color]

Spaceballs the custom title.
Fun Shoe

Dmitri-9 posted:

Heres a good explainer re parking requirements and how they make urbanism impossible

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/11/20/we-forbid-what-we-value-most

That is actually a really well written and informationally dense article about modern construction in cities.

:discourse: Thanks.

Read this.

crime fighting hog
Jun 29, 2006

I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out
So is tomorrow going to be the firing of Mueller or has that been debunked? I honestly don't know what to expect anymore.

Not that I had much to expect lately...

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

crime fighting hog posted:

So is tomorrow going to be the firing of Mueller or has that been debunked? I honestly don't know what to expect anymore.

Not that I had much to expect lately...

The gently caress are you talking about?

DrPop
Aug 22, 2004


https://twitter.com/UR_Ninja/status/943890860772556801

thank

loving

satan

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

crime fighting hog posted:

So is tomorrow going to be the firing of Mueller or has that been debunked? I honestly don't know what to expect anymore.

Not that I had much to expect lately...

Nobody's heard anything that really gave those rumors any more substance.

Colin Mockery
Jun 24, 2007
Rawr



Tatsuta Age posted:

So move the whole office location

If you have too many queer people, sometimes that still isn’t enough to get buy-in from a critical mass of your employees and you run the risk of losing a lot of people who are hard to replace (especially if they’ve been with your company long enough to have accumulated a lot of niche company-specific knowledge).

Xae
Jan 19, 2005

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

The gently caress are you talking about?

The rumor is Trump will fire Mueller over Christmas while everyone is "distracted".

empty whippet box
Jun 9, 2004

by Fluffdaddy

crime fighting hog posted:

So is tomorrow going to be the firing of Mueller or has that been debunked? I honestly don't know what to expect anymore.

Not that I had much to expect lately...

Nobody expects mueller to be fired outside of gut feelings that it'll happen.

Dmitri-9
Nov 30, 2004

There's something really sexy about Scrooge McDuck. I love Uncle Scrooge.

crime fighting hog posted:

So is tomorrow going to be the firing of Mueller or has that been debunked? I honestly don't know what to expect anymore.

Not that I had much to expect lately...

Mueller is going to get a box with gaudy gold wrapping paper on Christmas day that says "ya fired biiiiiitch"

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

Tatsuta Age posted:

So move the whole office location

Many educated professionals prefer living in cities rather than in areas with low cost of living and won't be interested in moving. And that's also rational because once they move to bumfuck nowhere, they lose the ability to easily get a new job in their industry.

crime fighting hog
Jun 29, 2006

I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

The gently caress are you talking about?

There was talk around Monday that rumors on the hill were Trump was going to shitcan Mueller on the 22nd. Guess it was just talk after all!

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happyhippy
Feb 21, 2005

Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup
Pillbug

Invalid Validation posted:

Saw on Facebook some people justifying tax cuts cause it helps small business too! Like maybe all three of them left in the state. You don't have to just go along with everything because it's a republican thing. God just think for yourselves for once.


mcmagic posted:

Small Business = Any S Corp.

Republicans in the past have said that 'small business' is any business upto 500 employees.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevecooper/2012/09/20/the-government-definition-of-small-business-is-b-s/#3eab7a8360a1

But here, its upto 1500 employees. 99.7% of all US businesses are 'small'.

So yeah, total bullshit. Its like counting in 6 year olds for senior benefits.

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