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syscall girl posted:Mega-agreedo. Connor at least got redeemed in the final stretch of episodes, after he found out Angel had his mind wiped so he could grow up as a normal kid. Connor understood what and why he did it, and appreciated him for it. Redeemed what had been an awful character, personally.
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Dec 20, 2017 16:24
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Cowslips Warren posted:My main point with the Kingsguard was that since they KNEW Rhaegar was dead (and I'd still love to see someone give that news to Lyanna. Oh hey secret princess? Yeah your dad and brother were killed, your other brother's fighting a war to rescue you, and your prince husband rear end in a top hat is dead now. Yay?) and the baby Jon Snow was his, why the gently caress didn't one of them run the hell away with that kid, because they'd have no way of knowing he wouldn't be killed asap? Rhaegar, rear end in a top hat that he was, told them to guard the Tower, but I'm pretty sure he meant the people in the Tower and not the stones direct. The Kingsguard couldn't run away with Baby John Snow because he wasn't born yet. We literally get to see him be born (and Lyanna die) soon after Ned fights and defeats all them. Lyanna was in labor while the fight was going on. It's possible that they might have been able to move Lyanna before Ned and crew arrived but we don't know the exact timeline of how long they had been there and what condition she was in to travel. Basically the Kingsguard were following the last order given to them by their Prince: Protect my wife and (unborn) child and don't let anyone take them from the Tower.
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Dec 20, 2017 21:05
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Also if you were given a choice which would you take: A)go on the run with the heir to the throne, spending the rest of your short life as an outcast before you and your charge are inevitably hunted down and murdered in a ditch, causing your family to be stripped of their social standing and probably also murdered B) a valiant last stand that keeps your and your family's honour intact, and results in your charge passing to his uncle, Lord NicestManInWesteros The real irrational irritating moment if that Ser Anime dicks about with dual wielding, instead of his awesome meteorite sword.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:20
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Also if you were given a choice which would you take: One of his swords is his awesome meteorite sword
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Dec 21, 2017 00:33
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Valid points all, but once news that Rhaegar was dead and the loving King was dead, any idiot worth his loving Kingsguard armor would look at pregnant Lyanna and think hmmm this all will end well, or we can try to save the last of Rhaegar's blood. They had no way of knowing if stark would kill the baby regardless. Because even if Ned Stark had died, there would have been many many others who would have eventually gone after them. I mean technically Rhaegar is right on part with Ramsay Snow, in terms of sheer stupidity and short-sighteness, if not selfish evil. The very very least he could have done was smother Elia after she had their second child, since she was so weak from childbirth anyway, and at least save his two children from their horrible deaths, instead of disgracing her and running off to marry an idiot teenager. Ramsay is only more evil because we see the poo poo he does direct rather than the absolute mess Rhaegar did.
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Dec 21, 2017 02:39
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Cowslips Warren posted:Valid points all, but once news that Rhaegar was dead and the loving King was dead, any idiot worth his loving Kingsguard armor would look at pregnant Lyanna and think hmmm this all will end well, or we can try to save the last of Rhaegar's blood. They had no way of knowing if stark would kill the baby regardless. There's no way Ned Stark would have killed his nephew - especially if Lyanna had survived childbirth, and the KG would totally have known it. I disagree about Rhaegar - he loved Elia, and there's prescedant for multiple marriages with Targs (it's a miracle that neither were his sister) Book Rhaegar also doesn't divorce Elia, and all the mess comes from The Mad King murdering Ned's dad when he (rightly) demand to know what the gently caress is going on. My favourite little detail about aSoIaF is in the Barristan chapters. All the fans love these hypothetical discussions - what if the KG had gone on the run, if only Robb had joined with Renly and Stannis, etc - and that's exactly what Barristan spends his time doing. If he'd acted differently during the Defiance of Duskendale the Mad King wouldn't have been quite so mad. Rhaegar first met Lyanna at the Tourney at Harrenhall, when he won and named her the Lady of Beauty or something. And Barristan has spent 20 years beating himself up over the fact that if he'd managed to beat Rhaegar then the Rebellion would never have happened. Barristan is a book reader, it owns.
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Dec 21, 2017 10:49
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Just speaking of the show (in the books it was clear Rhaegar's parents hated each other and his mom suffered many miscarriages, which is why Viserys surviving was such a big deal....none of which was touched in the show, and yes Targs had married multiple wives before, but it had fallen out of practice since the whole Aegon the Unworthy thing, just as Rhaegar's great grandfather had tried to keep the incest thing gone too), Varys also comes off as a whiny tool. In the books he has the backup prince and is clearly working him into power, in the show he just looks like a traitor to anyone he serves and later decides he doesn't like. Lastly for Ned, Honorable Dumb Ned, if he had already told a lie to everyone about Jon Snow being his bastard, there's no way he couldn't have told Cat the baby was Benjen's, but he'd joined the Wall so Ned wanted him to keep his honor and they'd raise the baby. Cat might have accepted that. And as bad as the show has gone off the rails, I will say that in the books, most everyone is so so so much more horrible in general, with the maybe exception of King Robert (who actually at first wanted the marriage to work and tried to provide for his bastard....until Cercei threatened to kill her) and Khal Drogo didn't rape Dany.
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Dec 21, 2017 13:36
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Drogo raped her in the books. Wasn't she like 12 or 13 too.
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Dec 21, 2017 13:42
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Mu Zeta posted:Drogo raped her in the books. Wasn't she like 12 or 13 too. No, he didn't. Rather the opposite; AAMOF. She is young and scared, and her brother basically sold her, but Drogo is quite kind and gentle with. So much, she enjoys it and loves him afterwards.
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Dec 21, 2017 13:53
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Mu Zeta posted:Drogo raped her in the books. Wasn't she like 12 or 13 too. Yeah. In the books he initially sort of played nice until Dany said yes, but a "yes" doesn't really count when "no" simply is not an option. There was only ever one way that night was going to end.
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Dec 21, 2017 13:58
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sixth and maimed posted:No, he didn't. Rather the opposite; AAMOF. She is young and scared, and her brother basically sold her, but Drogo is quite kind and gentle with. So much, she enjoys it and loves him afterwards. I haven't read it in a while but she only started enjoying it later. Also she's a kid (12-13) so it's rape.
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Dec 21, 2017 13:58
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Time you re-read the books then, because she was very much enjoying it at the moment. I might be wrong but the books mention she had an orgasm, even. I'm not disputing the whole sick pedo angle but given some of the other scenes in the books, this was almost as goods as it gets (in the George R. R. Martin universe, that is).
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Dec 21, 2017 14:10
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So it's not rape because she liked it got it
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Dec 21, 2017 14:13
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Mu Zeta posted:Drogo raped her in the books. Wasn't she like 12 or 13 too. Mu Zeta posted:So it's not rape because she liked it got it Don't start moving the goalposts just to score internet points. You meant a violent rape, regardless of her age. I just pointed out that no, that's not how it happened in the books. I also mentioned it was sick pedo stuff and typical for George R. R. Martin.
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Dec 21, 2017 14:23
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So, was it sufficiently rape for you, then because I really don't know what point you're trying to make here?
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Dec 21, 2017 14:28
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Gorilla Salad posted:So, was it sufficiently rape for you, then because I really don't know what point you're trying to make here? I don't know what the hell you mean with "sufficiently rape", but I was just pointing out the difference between the books and tv series in this instance. If you somehow want to turn that around to make me some kind of rape apologist, go right ahead.
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Dec 21, 2017 14:33
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Mu Zeta posted:Drogo raped her in the books. Wasn't she like 12 or 13 too. sixth and maimed posted:No, he didn't. Rather the opposite; AAMOF. She is young and scared, and her brother basically sold her, but Drogo is quite kind and gentle with. So much, she enjoys it and loves him afterwards. I mean, I don't what else to say here. Your point seems to be that he didn't rape her because she enjoyed it and Stockholm Syndromed herself to him afterwards. She was literally sold to him as a child and had no ability to refuse his advances, how is that not rape?
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Dec 21, 2017 14:44
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Gorilla Salad posted:I mean, I don't what else to say here. Your point seems to be that he didn't rape her because she enjoyed it and Stockholm Syndromed herself to him afterwards. Ah, I see your point. Looks like I wasn't clear enough. I was just trying to point out she wasn't violently raped as in the tv series. Not disputing it was rape, just that portrayal of how it happened in the book and the tv series was different.
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Dec 21, 2017 14:49
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sixth and maimed posted:No, he didn't. Rather the opposite; AAMOF. She is young and scared, and her brother basically sold her, but Drogo is quite kind and gentle with. So much, she enjoys it and loves him afterwards. You're literally arguing here that despite her being too young to consent, and not being in a position to say no without violence, she was not raped because she enjoyed it. You're a rape apologist. This whole thing about violent rape is not a good smokescreen. No one used the word violent, they said he raped her and you replied 'no he didn't'. Besides, trying to draw some big distinction between violent and non-violent rape is also a lovely thing to do. Basically you have outed yourself as having lovely opinions about rape, take the opportunity to consider them and change them.
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Dec 21, 2017 15:00
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Cowslips Warren posted:Just speaking of the show (in the books it was clear Rhaegar's parents hated each other and his mom suffered many miscarriages, which is why Viserys surviving was such a big deal....none of which was touched in the show, and yes Targs had married multiple wives before, but it had fallen out of practice since the whole Aegon the Unworthy thing, just as Rhaegar's great grandfather had tried to keep the incest thing gone too), Varys also comes off as a whiny tool. In the books he has the backup prince and is clearly working him into power, in the show he just looks like a traitor to anyone he serves and later decides he doesn't like. One of the improvements the show made was having Cat "forgive" or regret her hatred of J Snow. I'm a softy but I appreciated that. Would still trade it for Lady Stoneheart but compromises.
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Dec 21, 2017 15:56
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jabby posted:... Yeah sorry, I hosed that up. In no way I meant to sugarcoat rape but I put my foot in my mouth.
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Dec 21, 2017 16:35
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jabby posted:You're literally arguing here that despite her being too young to consent, and not being in a position to say no without violence, she was not raped because she enjoyed it. You're a rape apologist. It seemed to me like he was expecting one kind of conversation to be happening (whether the rape in the books was depicted as the rape in the show) and was responding to that, instead of the conversation that was actually happening in front of him. End result, he looks like a pedo rape apologist 
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Dec 21, 2017 16:53
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another point is, shes repeatedly violently raped in the book every night after the first one
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Dec 21, 2017 16:56
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I know that isn't the entire show's premise, but talking about it, this makes Game of Thrones seem like a weird choice to make as a tv show. I mean the same for IT, but I think they just didn't acknowledge that part at all.
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Dec 21, 2017 17:17
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I never read the books but I do remember my then-girlfriend saying "that was a lot rapier than the book scene" when she saw it air. I never asked for specifics. My rationally irritating movie moment is that the opening sequence of Valerian is the most interesting part and then the multidimensional stuff is never really used again. Also it irritates me that the movie is named Valerian when Laureline is every bit as important of a character. That's bullshit.
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Dec 21, 2017 17:32
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RareAcumen posted:I know that isn't the entire show's premise, but talking about it, this makes Game of Thrones seem like a weird choice to make as a tv show. I mean the same for IT, but I think they just didn't acknowledge that part at all. That's why one of the first things they did was age up many of the characters. (Well, that and so they could give her nude scenes I guess.)
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Dec 21, 2017 17:33
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Aphrodite posted:That's why one of the first things they did was age up many of the characters. Yeah. And that just makes a lot of sense just on a filming basis too considering how long the show's running.
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Dec 21, 2017 17:34
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violent sex idiot posted:another point is, shes repeatedly violently raped in the book every night after the first one when it comes to views on rape, I'm going to defer to noted subject matter expert violent sex idiot not being sarcastic about your post, I just noticed the username coincidence lol
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Dec 21, 2017 17:45
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My IIMM about the Valerian movie was how apparently these amazing suits let Valerian bulldoze through a space station (presumably killing thousands by flooding and gas poisoning), but Laureline is unable to use it to escape a cage made of sticks.
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Dec 21, 2017 17:50
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My IIMM about Valerian is how good the first five minutes are and how bad the rest of the movie afterwards is. Those first five minutes deserved to be in front of a better movie.
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Dec 21, 2017 17:56
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Also why would you cast that scrawny dweeb as your lead
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Dec 21, 2017 17:58
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Polaron posted:My IIMM about Valerian is how good the first five minutes are and how bad the rest of the movie afterwards is. Those first five minutes deserved to be in front of a better movie. Also Rihanna is a shapeshifting blue blob thing who only turns into Rihanna in different outfits. What is even the point? Just have her be Rihanna who can change her outfits, instead of a blue blob that only looks like Rihanna sometimes. That movie was a turd.
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Dec 21, 2017 18:02
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Rihanna already looks like a sexy alien, so why even hide that
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Dec 21, 2017 18:06
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And when she's not looking like Rihanna anymore, she still has the Rihanna voice. Because they don't want to put a filter over her voice, not when they're paying all that money for her to be in it.
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Dec 21, 2017 18:26
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I enjoyed Valerian while on an airplane, watching it without sound but with subtitles on, and drunk on Jack & Cokes.
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Dec 21, 2017 18:35
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Ignite Memories posted:I never read the books but I do remember my then-girlfriend saying "that was a lot rapier than the book scene" when she saw it air. I never asked for specifics. To make matters even worse, Jason Momoa said that one of the reasons he likes the genre of sci-fi/fantasy is that his character can "rape beautiful women."
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Dec 21, 2017 18:35
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Ignite Memories posted:My rationally irritating movie moment is that the opening sequence of Valerian is the most interesting part and then the multidimensional stuff is never really used again. Also it irritates me that the movie is named Valerian when Laureline is every bit as important of a character. That's bullshit.
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Dec 21, 2017 20:02
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Ignite Memories posted:I never read the books but I do remember my then-girlfriend saying "that was a lot rapier than the book scene" when she saw it air. I never asked for specifics. Khal Drogo groomed Kelly C. in the book. In the show he made her cry with his big horse cock. Which is better?
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Dec 21, 2017 20:04
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10 Beers posted:To make matters even worse, Jason Momoa said that one of the reasons he likes the genre of sci-fi/fantasy is that his character can "rape beautiful women." That probably was a joke, albeit in very poor taste. Edit: I am not a rapist for suggesting a joke might have been a joke. I do not condone the joke.
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Dec 21, 2017 20:27
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Armacham posted:That probably was a joke, albeit in very poor taste. Momoa released a statement apologizing and calling it a tasteless joke that he regrets making. Not that you have turn your opinion around on him if you dislike him, but he did acknowledge it was a poo poo thing.
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Dec 21, 2017 20:30
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