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A player unbound by any goon participation could have crushed Morocco easily at that point. We didn't gently caress up by rivalling Morocco, we hosed up by failing to build a strong enough country. Remember when we picked Humanism Ideas, which would have solved the religious issue in our country forever, and the Ulema undermined it at every turn?
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Dec 21, 2017 17:31
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Simply put, having us play the role of internal parties with their own disparate interests, while truer to real life, undermines our power in a way that the AI countries don't have to worry about.
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Dec 21, 2017 17:32
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I hope that at the end of Eu4 we'll get access to the original scenario file. It looks like a interesting start.
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Dec 21, 2017 17:41
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unwantedplatypus posted:Simply put, having us play the role of internal parties with their own disparate interests, while truer to real life, undermines our power in a way that the AI countries don't have to worry about. 
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Dec 21, 2017 17:49
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Aeromancia posted:I hope that at the end of Eu4 we'll get access to the original scenario file. It looks like a interesting start. I intend to release it, but I'm still playing on 1.21 (to make sure the save never corrupted during an update), so it'll take a little while to update the mod to the current version and get rid of all the bugs (there are a lot).
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Dec 21, 2017 17:54
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unwantedplatypus posted:Simply put, having us play the role of internal parties with their own disparate interests, while truer to real life, undermines our power in a way that the AI countries don't have to worry about.
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Dec 21, 2017 19:31
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Frionnel posted:A player unbound by any goon participation could have crushed Morocco easily at that point. We didn't gently caress up by rivalling Morocco, we hosed up by failing to build a strong enough country. Lol "Blind aggression cannot fail, it can only be failed." Rivaling a country you can't defeat is a fuckup, regardlessof why you can't defeat them.
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Dec 21, 2017 19:49
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I said we could have defeated them at that point. Morocco wasn't any stronger than France and we defeated France in that same update. We simply kept postponing it (i'm at fault for this too) and Morocco quickly eclipsed everyone. By the point they started conquering India they were unstoppable. Meanwhile we didn't do much except half assedly try to solve the religious rebel issue. Also, it would have been boring as gently caress to have an eternal hugbox with Morocco and i didn't want to expand much into France, so i regret nothing.
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Dec 21, 2017 22:21
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from literally the start of the LP I saw our natural goals as rule over the Western Med and was always pushing for that, but so long as Morocco was useful wanted to keep them on-side. They broke it off with us and at that point we were mopping up Iberia. If we had actually COMMITTED right then and there we'd have easily been able to smash them, but the Taifas could never hold power long enough for us to actually proceed instead of being bound by the rules not to conquer stuff.
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Dec 21, 2017 22:27
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Frionnel posted:A player unbound by any goon participation could have crushed Morocco easily at that point. We didn't gently caress up by rivalling Morocco, we hosed up by failing to build a strong enough country. How did we undermine it at every turn, by converting what little land we could? That didn't screw us. By building mosques? that didn't screw us. How is this our fault. Besides, all of the "good friendly christians" we had under our wing took every chance to revolt or rebel when they could. Dont blame the noly faction to never hold power for our country being in poop, we did no wrong.
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Dec 21, 2017 22:53
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I see we’re now at the finger-pointing blame game infighting portion of this goon LP, it took longer than I was expecting.
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Dec 21, 2017 23:03
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All these arguments over the meta game miss the point, for me anyway. Win, lose, whatever, as long as we’re living in interesting times to roleplay in.
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Dec 21, 2017 23:15
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 If only you guys could have all seen that the only thing that really mattered was founding colonies and making enough gold to swim in it like Scrooge McDuck. the nation could be in such a better place now.
Ikasuhito fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Dec 21, 2017 |
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Dec 21, 2017 23:23
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:All these arguments over the meta game miss the point, for me anyway. Win, lose, whatever, as long as we’re living in interesting times to roleplay in. That's easy for you to say, you're dead!
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Dec 21, 2017 23:25
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Ralepozozaxe posted:How did we undermine it at every turn, by converting what little land we could? Converting a province raises revolt risk until it is finished. And for at least one turn you guys did it in the most recently conquered provinces; This means, assuming our missionary strenght was still low even with the Ulema in second that we had provinces with revolt risk above 10 for long periods of time. Speaking purely in game mechanics terms here, we were provoking them into revolting, and it may not have caused a disaster, but certainly didn't help at all. The only thing that could have helped was raising autonomy on conquered provinces but everyone including me forgot to do that. Not that i hold this against you guys, by the way. There was not much else the Ulema could have done, it was in character and it made for an entertaining race to see what side would prevail. My point is it's wrong to point everything bad that happened to us to the decision to antagonize Morocco. We actually should have picked Humanism earlier, too, but it took a while for everyone to realize how bad the problem was. Lord Cyrahzax posted:All these arguments over the meta game miss the point, for me anyway. Win, lose, whatever, as long as we’re living in interesting times to roleplay in. This. Frionnel fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Dec 22, 2017 |
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Dec 21, 2017 23:31
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I will say the Madhi and Qatalunya have done a good job of converting provinces. They both get an A+.
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Dec 21, 2017 23:44
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I don't really see the need for all this finger pointing. We rolled the dice and they didn't land in our favour. And Morocco was weaker than andalus for at least half the game. (also hashim did a whole slew of suboptimal plays, but meh. He's better than grey hunter)
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Dec 21, 2017 23:51
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:All these arguments over the meta game miss the point, for me anyway. Win, lose, whatever, as long as we’re living in interesting times to roleplay in. At the same time, if you take too many hits you can't do much of interest.
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Dec 21, 2017 23:54
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I'm not upset, really (well, maybe a little at the collapse of Al-Andalus, but I spent a long time trying to get it unified in the first place), I just want to get the events down as solidly as possible so that when we are totally devoured in Vicky, then I can point fingers.Dance Officer posted:I don't really see the need for all this finger pointing. We rolled the dice and they didn't land in our favour. And Morocco was weaker than andalus for at least half the game. Were they? I thought they were pretty consistently our equals?
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Dec 22, 2017 00:21
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They were our equals, yes. A united Iberia should be stronger than a united Morocco in EU4, but we weren't united. Edit: Assuming Hashim didn't change the development of provinces in the region too much, in that update he linked Andalus had over 414 development, while Morocco was around 250. But they never had to deal with back to back wars against France. Frionnel fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Dec 22, 2017 |
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Dec 22, 2017 00:24
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Yeah I mean if you want to point to the A#1 source of our troubles, then that'd be France A) Existing and B) being right next to us. Well, after we conquered everyone between us and them anyway, but there was literally no way that wasn't going to happen.
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Dec 22, 2017 00:47
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paragon1 posted:Yeah I mean if you want to point to the A#1 source of our troubles, then that'd be France A) Existing and B) being right next to us. You know, just once I'd like to see an LP without France in it. It just seems like a constant that is driven to always exist no matter how ahistorical the rest of the world gets. Gothlp doesn't count because there, we are France.
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Dec 22, 2017 09:17
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Ralepozozaxe posted:How did we undermine it at every turn, by converting what little land we could? That didn't screw us. By building mosques? that didn't screw us. How is this our fault. Besides, all of the "good friendly christians" we had under our wing took every chance to revolt or rebel when they could. Dont blame the noly faction to never hold power for our country being in poop, we did no wrong. Unless you're expanding very fast and not getting gigantic amounts of WE it's very to avoid 90% of revolts in EU4, however one thing which is almost guaranteed to create revolts is converting high development provinces without having enough missionary power to make that process fast enough to beat the rebel timer. An active missionary is +6 RR, usually if you're going to commit to a conversion strategy you stack missionary strength bonuses so that this doesn't happen, but that's what happens when you're RPing / have a bunch of angry goons forcing you to take bad decisions V  VNewMars posted:You know, just once I'd like to see an LP without France in it. It just seems like a constant that is driven to always exist no matter how ahistorical the rest of the world gets. Gothlp doesn't count because there, we are France. France isn't even that scary usually in EU any more, the France in this game is about the most aggressive I've seen in an EU game for absolutely ages, probably because it had a muslim Spain.
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Dec 22, 2017 09:24
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In normal EU4, ai France doesn't have much chance to expand anywhere due to most of the other European majors hating it and being in an alliance against it. A Spanish-Austrian alliance is usually enough to block France from expanding. There haven't been European majors aside from France and Andalus, and now Bavaria I guess, in this game. Plus we were Muslim in Christian lands, so it was really hard to get alliances to begin with.
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Dec 22, 2017 11:02
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People are right, The Ulema converting singular led to our demise, that increased revolt risk in one province at any one time really killed us.
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Dec 22, 2017 14:05
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In normal EU4 France is only as much of a problem that you allow it to be, because it's pretty easy to absolutely cripple them early on if you know what you're doing.
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Dec 22, 2017 14:30
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If you guys are all so good you should sign up for the next MapGoons multiplayer and wreck face
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Dec 22, 2017 14:55
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Obliterati posted:If you guys are all so good you should sign up for the next MapGoons multiplayer and wreck face i am comically bad at eu4
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Dec 22, 2017 15:37
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QuoProQuid posted:i am comically bad at eu4 Then you'll fit right in
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Dec 22, 2017 15:42
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Ralepozozaxe posted:People are right, The Ulema converting singular led to our demise, that increased revolt risk in one province at any one time really killed us. Revolt Risk works on a province by province basis, but revolts work on a regional basis. A single missionary in Galicia converting christians will be contributing to the chance to revolt of all provinces where christians rebels are a valid option. So don't be surprised if they revolt. Trying to convert with lovely missionary strength is what players do when they WANT rebels! And like i said, this didn't lead us to our demise. I was just another one in a series of suboptimal plays we made that weakened Andalus as a whole. Think of all the manpower we wasted dealing with them. Obliterati posted:If you guys are all so good you should sign up for the next MapGoons multiplayer and wreck face This thread alone should be proof that nobody here is good at EU4. Frionnel fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Dec 22, 2017 |
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Dec 22, 2017 15:42
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The real reason were a fractured mess is because every faction (except the Diwan) voted to kill Andalusia in that one voting session. The positive is that the Madhi and Qatalunya have become bright shining stars of the future while we continue to barely cling to life. Particularly the Madhi, who seem like the power playing on the peninsula. What I’ve really learned is that AJ_Impy has always been right, and from now on I will listen to my brother in faith.
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Dec 22, 2017 17:23
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Dansar Rabb Al'Ustul saw what happened during that fateful session of the Majlis, and noticed the change in music. He packed up his belongings as soon as he could, and set sail for Gharbia. He never bothered to vote.
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Dec 22, 2017 17:37
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Ralepozozaxe posted:What I’ve really learned is that AJ_Impy has always been right, and from now on I will listen to my brother in faith. Thus, is truth revealed. The Dalai Ullama's legacy shall rise again.
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Dec 22, 2017 17:49
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Ralepozozaxe posted:The real reason were a fractured mess is because every faction (except the Diwan) voted to kill Andalusia in that one voting session. The positive is that the Madhi and Qatalunya have become bright shining stars of the future while we continue to barely cling to life. Particularly the Madhi, who seem like the power playing on the peninsula. The Mahdi has a lot of territory, but a lot of it is poo poo land (No offense meant to any actual Spaniards here). Qatalunya would be a far more powerful V2 country than the Mahdi's because it actually has people in it.
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Dec 22, 2017 18:41
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AJ_Impy posted:Thus, is truth revealed. The Dalai Ullama's legacy shall rise again. The Dalai Ullama's rise and fall will still be the stuff of legends long after his death.       Honestly one of the best things Ralepozozaxe's come up with in the thread.
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Dec 22, 2017 20:15
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that loving stake burning picture gets me every goddamn time
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Dec 22, 2017 20:42
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AJ_Impy posted:Thus, is truth revealed. The Dalai Ullama's legacy shall rise again.  You have done well in my absence child, but now I am back . We can now truly do Allahs work.
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Dec 22, 2017 20:53
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Dance Officer posted:(also hashim did a whole slew of suboptimal plays, but meh. He's better than grey hunter) Yeah, for all of our faults at least we haven't had every country try to kick us in because of massive aggressive expansion. That would be Bavaria. 
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Dec 22, 2017 21:30
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Are people blaming this on Hashim somehow? We basically voted to tank Andalusia three votes In a row. #hashimdidnowrong
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Dec 22, 2017 22:36
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Affi posted:Are people blaming this on Hashim somehow? We basically voted to tank Andalusia three votes In a row.
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Dec 22, 2017 22:39
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