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Evek posted:Voyager's ending blows because there is no buildup like DS9 and is no where clever enough to wrap up the series like TNG. It just kind of... ends. If there had been any buildup, they pitched it the second they had the triumphant return followed up by a "but how did we get here?" storyline. I get that they wanted to frame it in an interesting way, but they put the orgasm first and then expected us to sit through a bunch of experimental humping and poking with the promise of another orgasm, really, I swear, it's coming.
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Dec 22, 2017 14:35
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Oh, he is! He's definitely part of getting them home. Just not in the finale. When they actually get home.
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Dec 22, 2017 14:38
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Well, I think everyone can agree at least, Enterprise had the best ending, right?
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Dec 22, 2017 14:56
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Tom Guycot posted:Well, I think everyone can agree at least, Enterprise had the best ending, right? I have complete faith Disco will top this.
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Dec 22, 2017 15:06
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Tom Guycot posted:Well, I think everyone can agree at least, Enterprise had the best ending, right? You fool, there is no end to space
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Dec 22, 2017 15:06
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skasion posted:I have complete faith Disco will top this. Can anything bend or break you?
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Dec 22, 2017 15:21
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Should I be watching Discovery or is it a turd?
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Dec 22, 2017 15:25
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Windows 98 posted:Should I be watching Discovery or is it a turd? Why not both? It's hard to say. It honestly feels like the whole first half of the season might be not so much set-up as a set-up, if that makes sense. It has some cool stuff and some good actors but also some real shite and I still maintain that it doesn't feel Trekky (but that could be the setup) because it's not much of an ensemble or very hopeful or thoughtful. It's a generic Sci-Fi action show wearing star trek PJs right now, but it's not a terrible one. I'm really hoping things improve to where I can actually enjoy it as Trek.
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Dec 22, 2017 15:31
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marktheando posted:Or are there any actually good episodes of Voyager? Yes, I’ve seen the one where Paris and Janeway turn into lizards and gently caress. I watched some Voyager recently, and enjoyed it. I started with Scorpion (season 3 finale) and just read the episode description on Netflix, skipping any that didn't sound entertaining. I feel like I watched about half the episodes and that was good. You could take that approach. For actual episode recommendations, I thought the highlights were: Future's End Scorpion Year of Hell Message in a Bottle Living Witness One Drone Think Tank Equinox Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy Pathfinder Blink of an Eye Inside Man Body and Soul Author, Author Renaissance Man
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Dec 22, 2017 15:37
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 Pictured: an early hovercar
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Dec 22, 2017 15:40
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Windows 98 posted:Should I be watching Discovery or is it a turd? Its not horrible, it just doesn't really have the feel of what you think of as 'star trek'.
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Dec 22, 2017 15:42
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Windows 98 posted:Should I be watching Discovery or is it a turd? I couldn’t recommend that you watch it so far. The first season had by all accounts a pretty troubled production and that comes across in what you see. Is it wholly terrible? No and that’s the worst part. You can see where the good ideas were, unlike say Voyager which is so inoffensive and void of ideas it’s hard to feel bad about. It’s a real mess in some ways, in other ways it’s right up to modern “prestige tv” standards, a good bit of what they try they fail at and what they don’t fail at outright is often really bad idea to begin with. Sometimes it feels like it is playing catch-up to every sci-fi show that has aired since the last time Trek did anything groundbreaking or remotely interesting (DS9, I mean, which is a lot to catch up on). Other times it feels like it’s recapitulating Enterprise’s mistakes exactly. It is getting a second season and we’re only halfway through the first, so even if it dies after that it still has a good bit of room to improve.
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Dec 22, 2017 15:44
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The Bloop posted:
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Dec 22, 2017 15:59
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My Disco take: too early to say. It started bad but has improved and shown signs of Trek poking through. I would not say it is good right now but I can see looking back at it as the traditional bad first season.
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Dec 22, 2017 16:04
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Grand Fromage posted:My Disco take: too early to say. It started bad but has improved and shown signs of Trek poking through. I would not say it is good right now but I can see looking back at it as the traditional bad first season. This is essentially why I'm still hopeful. That and being a hopeless optimist
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Dec 22, 2017 16:32
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The time loop episode was legit good. I'd say three of the nine eps so far are good, and for first season Trek that's not a bad batting average.
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Dec 22, 2017 17:14
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"We're doing about as well as a show that was grossly mismanaged by a pill-popping senile alcoholic!"
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Dec 22, 2017 17:18
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:"We're doing about as well as a show that was grossly mismanaged by a pill-popping senile alcoholic!" You're describing a large percentage of TV.
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Dec 22, 2017 17:22
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:"We're doing about as well as a show that was grossly mismanaged by a pill-popping senile alcoholic!" That reminds me, I'm about due to do a re-read of the Engel book. I suppose I'll get on that when I finish fact-checking the Solow / Justman one.
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Dec 22, 2017 17:22
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Equinox is weird. Its good, but it also throws a much more interesting show in your face and takes it away from you. So watch it if you enjoy being blueballed.
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Dec 22, 2017 17:41
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Windows 98 posted:Should I be watching Discovery or is it a turd? Don't bother unless you hear about a TNG season 3-style upswing in quality later in it's run; right now it sucks massive donkey balls. It looks stupid, sounds stupid, and is full of weak rear end in a top hat characters doing stupid poo poo. Literally any other sci fi show on TV right now would be more worth your time.
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Dec 22, 2017 17:49
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Tighclops posted:right now it sucks massive donkey balls. It looks stupid, sounds stupid, and is full of weak rear end in a top hat characters doing stupid poo poo. Literally any other sci fi show on TV right now would be more worth your time. The opposite of all of the above, actually
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Dec 22, 2017 17:52
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I'd say Discovery is fairly equatable to Voyager at the moment. It's Star Trek, but not consistently good Star Trek. The characters are either paper-thin or not quite likeable, there's baffling story decisions, weak "twists", and subpar writing. But it occasionally shows signs of life, and once or twice it's actually shown signs of being good... eventually. The Harry Mudd episodes are the highlight of the show so far, thanks mostly to Rainn Wilson absolutely owning the role. It's totally watchable and you may even come away enjoying it, but I'm not 100% sure I can recommend it in its current form. Maybe wait until the first season is completed, it strikes me as a show that would fare better in a binge-watching situation where you aren't left with odd cliffhangers for weeks at a time. Stay far away from the Discovery thread though, that place is full of misplaced vitriol and people rooting for the show to fail out of spite.
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Dec 22, 2017 18:00
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There are a lot of people who will give the show a wider berth than it deserves because they don't want to look like some shithead trekkie, but the reality is that it's just a somewhat expensive looking mess whose makers are banking on you cutting them way more slack than you otherwise would because of the IP
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Dec 22, 2017 18:22
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Timby posted:That reminds me, I'm about due to do a re-read of the Engel book. I suppose I'll get on that when I finish fact-checking the Solow / Justman one. Are you writing up your findings on Inside Star Trek? If so I'd love to read what you come up with.
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Dec 22, 2017 18:31
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Equinox is weird. Its good, but it also throws a much more interesting show in your face and takes it away from you. That's pretty much Voyager in a nutshell.
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Dec 22, 2017 18:35
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Are you writing up your findings on Inside Star Trek? If so I'd love to read what you come up with. There were enough things wrong in there (much of the Courage stuff being absolute bullshit being the red flag for me) that I decided to start writing it down, so, yeah, I'll put it out there somewhere.
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Dec 22, 2017 18:38
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The reason I ask is because I am now halfway through season 4 of my first time through TNG, and it’s slightly driving my girlfriend crazy. She is a fan of the recent films and is willing to give Discovery a try because I spun it to her as “modern Trek. Less talking and debating” (I don’t actually know if this is true). I want to find some common Trek ground she can tolerate to help sway her into being a little more invested in the universe as a whole, and therefore hopefully more willing to stay invested when I put TNG on. What’s crazy is The Orville is essentially her favorite show right now. It’s the whole reason we started watching any Trek at all. And Orville is extremely TNG.
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Dec 22, 2017 18:58
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Windows 98 posted:Should I be watching Discovery or is it a turd? https://youtu.be/fMP5OKXrwCQ It is loving garbage
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Dec 22, 2017 18:59
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Peachfart posted:https://youtu.be/fMP5OKXrwCQ God drat it’s like the CW aired Star Trek
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Dec 22, 2017 19:09
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Windows 98 posted:God drat it’s like the CW aired Star Trek lmao that's exactly what I said when I saw that clip for the first time too.
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Dec 22, 2017 19:12
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Windows 98 posted:God drat it’s like the CW aired Star Trek I mean, the CW's parentage being considered, it did air Star Trek. Also the CW is good.
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Dec 22, 2017 19:22
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DoctorWhat posted:I mean, the CW's parentage being considered, it did air Star Trek. I watch all the CW hero shows and am a comic obsessed dork. I wasn’t implying the CW sucks. It does have a distinct style though. Maybe a style that doesn’t work so well with Star Trek. But I will certainly reserve judgement until I see a few episodes. Was probably going to start watching tonight.
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Dec 22, 2017 19:26
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Thanks for the Voyager recommendations. I’ll also join those saying Discovery is good. The worst episodes are still better than most sub par Trek Episodes and the best episodes are legit very good. I do wish Fuller had stayed on, but the current show runners seem to know what they are doing- the mid season finale was excellent. And it looks great and the main cast are all good or very good actors. It’s serialised in the modern prestige tv style and they have updated the uniforms, ships and alien designs for 2017, so you will be disappointed if maintaining visual continuity with TOS and keeping up the old “planet of the week” formula are dealbreakers for you.
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Dec 22, 2017 19:31
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The CW's parentage aired Voyager. Not a strong point in its favor.
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Dec 22, 2017 19:33
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Tighclops posted:There are a lot of people who will give the show a wider berth than it deserves because they don't want to look like some shithead trekkie, but the reality is that it's just a somewhat expensive looking mess whose makers are banking on you cutting them way more slack than you otherwise would because of the IP Or it could be that the show has had a difficult birth complicated by a season arc left in shambles after the bizarre pilot and we're still pushing through the tonally uneven remains that the new showrunners stapled together from scraps. I give Discovery a wide berth because I recognize that the spectre of Fuller's awful story still hangs over the show and we aren't likely to see anything new until season 2. If it's still poo poo after two seasons then I'll know not to bother with anything further. I know it's a tired excuse, but name a Trek show (besides TOS) that hasn't had a troubled first season.
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Dec 22, 2017 19:34
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Or it could be that the show has had a difficult birth complicated by a season arc left in shambles after the bizarre pilot and we're still pushing through the tonally uneven remains that the new showrunners stapled together from scraps. I give Discovery a wide berth because I recognize that the spectre of Fuller's awful story still hangs over the show and we aren't likely to see anything new until season 2. If it's still poo poo after two seasons then I'll know not to bother with anything further. Orville
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Dec 22, 2017 19:36
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Peachfart posted:The CW's parentage aired Voyager. Not a strong point in its favor. UPN was a bad joke in the first place because it was born solely out of Paramount's desire to form a fifth network, a desire so desperate that they partnered with a loving boat company (that happened to own like a dozen local stations for diversification reasons) to fund it.
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Dec 22, 2017 19:36
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Speaking of, Spike is rebranding itself as Paramount Network next month, and they’re airing a few original shows in the hopes they can start some new prestige dramas.
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Dec 22, 2017 19:38
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Baronjutter posted:Orville I'll admit to liking the Orville, but let's recognize that most of the first season has been cherry-picked A and B plots from TNG episodes stapled together with different characters. I literally started to write a big long effort-post detailing all the plots The Orville was aping before it became a huge read and I gave up counting.
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Dec 22, 2017 19:39
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