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Trabisnikof posted:Which means it is funded for 1 month longer than the rest of the government. No, it's not. The funding is retroactive to October 1, 2017.
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Dec 23, 2017 01:30
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Democrats pushing to fund the government and refusing to let the Republicans defund the government is part or a right wing plot to defund the government. lmao
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Dec 23, 2017 01:31
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Only by voting to defund the parts of the government Republicans dont like can we protect the parts of the government they dont like from the Republicans devious plot to defund the parts of the government they dislike!
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Dec 23, 2017 01:34
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2013: republicans shut down the government for literally no reason and are rewarded with control of the senate by the energized base in 2014 2017: Democrats refuse to shut down the government out of a fear of appearing partisan, de energize their base and gently caress up an easy wave election in 2018 lmao
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Dec 23, 2017 01:34
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Raskolnikov38 posted:2013: republicans shut down the government for literally no reason and are rewarded with control of the senate by the energized base in 2014
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Dec 23, 2017 01:41
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karthun posted:So when the government shuts down and CHIP is defunded, the real long term goal of republicans, republicans can then blame the democrats for shutting down the government and ending funding for CHIP because they held out for DACA. No doubt that’s what the Republicans would say, but it’s a simple argument in favor of CHIP and DACA, that Democrats care about kids. Republican don’t. Both are popular programs and by linking them you broaden the constituency for support for both. Without them linked, there’s a risk that DACA will expire permanently while CHIP gets funded, and Democrats will have taken part in a political child arbitrage, which is decidedly a worse position to be in. When you’re trying to win the messaging war, keeping it simple is key. Maybe none of this will matter and DACA will be extended, but that’s a big risk, and we should be concerned. Democrazy fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Dec 23, 2017 |
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Dec 23, 2017 01:41
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The reason a government shutdown plays well to the Republican base is that they want to live in the Mad Max timeline because they think they'll get to be Lord Humungus. That doesn't really apply to the Democratic base.
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Dec 23, 2017 01:45
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Kilroy posted:It's not clear that a government shutdown will energize the Democratic base, though. pissing in the eyes of republicans even if it fails is going to hype up the base
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Dec 23, 2017 01:47
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Raskolnikov38 posted:pissing in the eyes of republicans even if it fails is going to hype up the base
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Dec 23, 2017 01:56
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Kilroy posted:It's not clear that a government shutdown will energize the Democratic base, though. Not doing anything to get CHIP and DACA through will really piss off the democratic base, though. The Pod Save America folks are pissed about it, for crying out loud. There were dreamers risking deportation this week in Schumer's office. Indivisible is already calling democrats who voted for the CR the "deportation caucus." This isn't left versus center or primary chat.
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Dec 23, 2017 01:56
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joepinetree posted:Not doing anything to get CHIP and DACA through will really piss off the democratic base, though. The Pod Save America folks are pissed about it, for crying out loud. There were dreamers risking deportation this week in Schumer's office. Indivisible is already calling democrats who voted for the CR the "deportation caucus." This isn't left versus center or primary chat.
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Dec 23, 2017 02:01
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I guess though even if it doesn't help, it doesn't hurt, and at least it's doing something as opposed to sitting on their fat asses all day trying out new excuses for not doing anything.
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Dec 23, 2017 02:03
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joepinetree posted:Not doing anything to get CHIP and DACA through will really piss off the democratic base, though. The Pod Save America folks are pissed about it, for crying out loud. There were dreamers risking deportation this week in Schumer's office. Indivisible is already calling democrats who voted for the CR the "deportation caucus." This isn't left versus center or primary chat. Don't get ahead of yourself.  Although I guess laying on the pressure is something I'm fine with even if my fishmechy side rebels at the language.
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Dec 23, 2017 02:07
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Raskolnikov38 posted:2013: republicans shut down the government for literally no reason and are rewarded with control of the senate by the energized base in 2014 That's not what happened. The shutdown was very unpopular, but it got quickly and heavily overshadowed by the Obamacare website problems.
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Dec 23, 2017 02:08
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Lycus posted:That's not what happened. The shutdown was very unpopular, but it got quickly and heavily overshadowed by the Obamacare website problems. There was no way that 2014 was going to be anything other than a Dem wipeout even in the best of circumstances. The flaming ball of anti-Obama rage was at its height.
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Dec 23, 2017 02:11
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Kilroy posted:I guess though even if it doesn't help, it doesn't hurt, and at least it's doing something as opposed to sitting on their fat asses all day trying out new excuses for not doing anything.
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Dec 23, 2017 02:12
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Raskolnikov38 posted:2013: republicans shut down the government for literally no reason and are rewarded with control of the senate by the energized base in 2014 The difference is that the Republican base is almost as ecstatic over the idea of shutting down government as they are about gutting it in its entirety. The democratic base tends to care about government working, about all the people hurt by a shutdown, and about a bunch of dead kids who were denied healthcare funds because of a stunt that wouldn't budge Republicans in congress or at home a single inch.
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Dec 23, 2017 02:13
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The point isn't to go "woohoo, we shut down the government" it's to say "we did literally everything in our power to resist the GOP's agenda of literally killing children. Now do everything in your power by voting those fuckers out, so we never have to go to this kind of extreme again."
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Dec 23, 2017 02:19
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Mornacale posted:The point isn't to go "woohoo, we shut down the government" it's to say "we did literally everything in our power to resist the GOP's agenda of literally killing children. Now do everything in your power by voting those fuckers out, so we never have to go to this kind of extreme again." A point of note although I'm not sure how important it is in the messaging to sane people: the GOP already proposed to fund CHIP with ACA cuts. So in this particular case killing children is their consolation prize, not their primary goal.
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Dec 23, 2017 02:31
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twodot posted:Did I miss a thread of this conversation? Government shutdowns directly hurt a lot of people, including children that Democrats are theoretically trying to help.
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Dec 23, 2017 02:36
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Kilroy posted:I guess though even if it doesn't help, it doesn't hurt, and at least it's doing something as opposed to sitting on their fat asses all day trying out new excuses for not doing anything. Whatever happened to taking a stand? You want Democrats to throw a big shitfit with impeaching judges in a dick measuring contest but are “meh” about fighting for sick kids? 
yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Dec 23, 2017 |
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Dec 23, 2017 02:38
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Raskolnikov38 posted:pissing in the eyes of republicans even if it fails is going to hype up the base Maybe we should just fight for DACA and CHIP because it’s the right thing to do? Lot of internet tough guys ITT clutching their pearls about ~political capital~. Though I do think that the actual voter fallout will be minimal and Republicans will loving cave in the end. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Dec 23, 2017 |
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Dec 23, 2017 02:42
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Kilroy posted:I guess though even if it doesn't help, it doesn't hurt, and at least it's doing something as opposed to sitting on their fat asses all day trying out new excuses for not doing anything. I mean it does hurt in that the government is shut down. The question is whether or not that outweighs the damage of CHIP and DACA not being protected. I don’t think it does. Edit: never mind you acknowledged this already.
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Dec 23, 2017 02:42
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yronic heroism posted:Whatever happened to taking a stand? You want Democrats to throw a big shitfit with impeaching judges in a dick measuring contest but are “meh” about fighting for sick kids?  impeaching lovely judges is pure upside - here you have to weigh the cost of the shutdown itself, the effect it will have on 2018 (everyone here seems to think it will energize the base but that's not clear to me), whether it will actually help with DACA and CHIP, and you're assuming that Republicans are going to get the vapors or something over a shutdown which I don't think is a slam dunk. If you can make a convincing argument for even one of these things, then I'm for it.
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Dec 23, 2017 02:48
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Lol “the effect on 2018.” You think CHIP will somehow poll worse than “because we can” impeachment proceedings? But that’s beside the point - the fact that you’re freaking out over polls when it comes to sick kids but none of your other bullshit pet causes speaks volumes. I guess Chapo ain’t giving CHIP much attention these days.
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Dec 23, 2017 03:00
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yronic heroism posted:Lol “the effect on 2018.” Funny how you lose your mind every time a leftist talks about just doing the right thing, hemming and hawing about optics and politics and endless bullshit to justify not helping people, but as soon as one says "hey will this actually help?" you... well you still lose your mind but now it's because Hey Just Do The Right Think Okay? I mean let's talk about making the Democratic party more democratic, again, to get a better feel where you fall on the "Just loving Do The Right Thing" axis
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Dec 23, 2017 03:18
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Kilroy posted:I'm not "freaking out over polls" you dumb poo poo, I'm not sure what the effect will be either way. And if I thought shutting down the government would help with DACA or CHIP I'd be for it regardless of the polls. I've already said exactly this, like what twice? The democratic party should be more democratic. Nice goalpost shift though.
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Dec 23, 2017 03:21
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Raskolnikov38 posted:2013: republicans shut down the government for literally no reason and are rewarded with control of the senate by the energized base in 2014 Whatever it takes to tank the 2018 elections for the dems.
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Dec 23, 2017 04:50
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Honestly, I feel like if you don't think Dems can win the PR battle on "tried to save children from disease and the destruction of their families" then it's time to start giving up on democracy in America and start planning to murder as many Republicans as you can get away with.
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Dec 23, 2017 06:15
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Mornacale posted:Honestly, I feel like if you don't think Dems can win the PR battle on "tried to save children from disease and the destruction of their families" then it's time to start giving up on democracy in America and start planning to murder as many Republicans as you can get away with. Tried to save them by stopping veterans benefits and stopping kids cancer treatments. A winning formula
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Dec 23, 2017 07:31
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Mornacale posted:Honestly, I feel like if you don't think Dems can win the PR battle on "tried to save children from disease and the destruction of their families" then it's time to start giving up on democracy in America and start planning to murder as many Republicans as you can get away with. These people think Trump is a genius saint who champions moral values, the PR battle is lost.
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Dec 23, 2017 07:34
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*corporate shill bad Dems start to show spine on behalf of poor people in a way not first endorsed by weird Twitter* “Whoa guys I just want show trial judicial impeachments and armed revolution that my twitter bros and I will definitely win because our neckbeards are great gun accessories. Not sure we should be getting crazy and refusing to vote for a GOP funding resolution or anything.”
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Dec 23, 2017 07:43
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socialsecurity posted:These people think Trump is a genius saint who champions moral values, the PR battle is lost. You're never going to convince a Trumper that Democrats did anything except rape children in the basement of a pizza parlor. Democrats can, however, begin the process of rebuilding faith in such things as 'We will actually fight for someone besides our corporate mega-donors'. That's kind of a long process at this point and they should maybe get started on it sooner rather than later.
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Dec 23, 2017 07:47
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yronic heroism posted:*corporate shill bad Dems start to show spine on behalf of poor people in a way not first endorsed by weird Twitter* 
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Dec 23, 2017 08:29
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“I’ll do anything to stop the fash, my bonny lads. There’s only a 15 percent chance I vote for their funding resolution.”
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Dec 23, 2017 10:10
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Mornacale posted:Honestly, I feel like if you don't think Dems can win the PR battle on "tried to save children from disease and the destruction of their families" then it's time to start giving up on democracy in America and start planning to murder as many Republicans as you can get away with. Yeah, if nothing else, the sheer hostility among the tireless Dem defenders against the very thought that the party should actually do some politics does pretty conclusively prove that the Democrats are, in fact, a waste. And not to repeat myself, but you lot who think the GOP is super eager to shut down the government and how advantageous it'd be to them still has to explain why they haven't done so themselves. It's not like they've been shy about doing unpopular poo poo this year, so why exactly would this be something that they absolutely need the Dems to do?
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Dec 23, 2017 10:33
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Tried to save them by stopping veterans benefits and stopping kids cancer treatments. A winning formula No this is what the Republicans theatened to do to them if they tried to save them. What they actually did was propose the budget fund them and told the republicans to support that or else. Theres a pretty big difference, but nice to know you think the dems should bend the knees to the Republicans every time they issue a threat, I am sure that will work out wonderfully GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Dec 23, 2017 |
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Dec 23, 2017 13:28
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At this point you might as well shut down the government and just start a new one while the old one is locked up. You could probably get most of the civil service on you side, I doubt they'd have any particular attachment to the current government if a better one opened up shop, and that's assuming they haven't already been shitcanned by the Republicans. Start collecting taxes and providing services, and let the old government just go bankrupt and wither away. Move back to the historical capital in Philadelphia or New York or something. The capital always looked kind of tacky, might as well take the opportunity to build something that looks nice. I recommend something like Albany, that looks dope as hell. I mean, our current government is defective enough it'd probably be smart to be prepared to just drop it and make a new one anyway. Rockopolis fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Dec 23, 2017 |
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Dec 23, 2017 15:16
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Rockopolis posted:At this point you might as well shut down the government and just start a new one while the old one is locked up. You could probably get most of the civil service on you side, I doubt they'd have any particular attachment to the current government if a better one opened up shop, and that's assuming they haven't already been shitcanned by the Republicans. Start collecting taxes and providing services, and let the old government just go bankrupt and wither away. Dual Power here we go 
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Dec 23, 2017 15:40
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| # ? May 25, 2024 21:32 |
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Start the world's most passive-aggressive civil war?
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Dec 23, 2017 15:43
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