Kokoro Wish posted:For those still interested, The Root did a video interview with Cornel West regarding his "fued" with Coates. The angle that was brought up in this thread of Coates' mischaracterization of Malcom X's legacy is indeed gone over.  
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Dec 24, 2017 04:58
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Yup, I really need to source thing better when friends send me things. I've had that kind of thing on my mind when discussing things with relatives and friends, especially after Charles Barkley's comments after the Alabama election and Jones' moves since: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC4wZRf2YoU&t=117s On the other side of that, still agreeing with West about Coates, though. Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Dec 24, 2017 |
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Dec 24, 2017 05:07
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Thing about West is he always knows exactly what he is doing. There are a lot of times he speaks publicly where to know what he is saying you have to either be certain things or know certain things. He seems to have a tendency to go after people who know what he is doing and reject it or reject some part of it. Or reject that it should be spoken only to an audience in the know. I think Obama and Coates are examples of this. He's kind of an rear end in a top hat. But a lot of his thought can't be ignored. It also shows up in a surprising number of progressive/liberal seminaries.
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Dec 24, 2017 07:47
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nothing to see here folks, just your average everyday blue-checkmark twitter journalist
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Dec 24, 2017 08:12
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Eric Garland is not a journalist, he's a crazy person lmao
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Dec 24, 2017 08:29
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I spend way too much time reading about politics to not know this, but who the poo poo is eric garland and why do we care he had a meltdown on twitter?
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Dec 24, 2017 08:30
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:I spend way too much time reading about politics to not know this, but who the poo poo is eric garland and why do we care he had a meltdown on twitter? http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/12/what_the_hell_is_wrong_with_america_s_establishment_liberals.html He's the Game Theory guy. Edit: as an aside, if Sam Kriss, the guy who wrote this article, sounds familiar, it's because he was later accused of sexual misconduct and mostly exiled from journalism. So it's awful people all the way down. Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Dec 24, 2017 |
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Dec 24, 2017 08:32
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Paging RuanGacho, and anyone interested in the Justice Democrats organization or the Young Turks. https://twitter.com/justicedems/status/944356205476106240
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Dec 24, 2017 08:45
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Lightning Knight posted:Paging RuanGacho, and anyone interested in the Justice Democrats organization or the Young Turks. man, there's some top tier handwringing about him being forced out. yeah, a guy can reform, but it's way better for the justice dems to have a leader that wasn't saying poo poo like: "Rule 1: There must be some serious making out by the third date. If I haven’t felt your tits by then, things are not about to last much longer. In fact, if you don’t get back on track by the fourth date, you’re done."
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Dec 24, 2017 08:54
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That was 20 years ago lol. It seems like he's changed quite a bit since then.
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Dec 24, 2017 09:00
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:That was 20 years ago lol. It seems like he's changed quite a bit since then. He also still refuses to explicitly acknowlege the Armenian genocide, so
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Dec 24, 2017 09:11
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icantfindaname posted:He also still refuses to explicitly acknowlege the Armenian genocide, so That's funny I thought he had but he just said he doesn't know enough to say it happened or not.
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Dec 24, 2017 09:38
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Cenk Uygur is perhaps the most annoying person I have ever seen or heard of.
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Dec 24, 2017 09:42
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Badger of Basra posted:Shutting down the government is a tactic and DACA is a good reason to use it imo I understand chip and daca ate important and worth fighting for. unfortunately the voters have pushed the gop into complete and utter control of the government. the only tool the minority party has to influence the government is to threaten to break the government the gop is a monster that enjoys destroying things. They break things routinely which doesnt leave the democrats with many tools to work with if the government shuts down in the eyes of the voters its the democrats fault. both parties should pass clean budgets without strings attached. Keeping the government functioning isnt a game democrats should play. Well have to fight for Daca and chip on a different battlefield. And if on that battlefield the gop still wont budge then they own that decision completely. If people dont like it they can vote democrats into power If getting hosed by the gop who was given complete control of the government by the voters isnt enough motivation for liberals to get out and vote then the fuckings will continue until they decide to vote democrats into power
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Dec 24, 2017 10:36
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Crowsbeak posted:Obama really will be like JFK remember more for what he "symbolized" then what he did. Also I would argue he will be the last neoliberal leader of a country tried to make their utterly immoral system seem like it could work for all. obama is not king. he is hamstrung by our flawed system. He tried to make big change in healthcare and the American voters vomited a gop majority ending any further major accomplishments he might have had. Obama was every bit as amazing as he seemed in the beginning. unfortunately Americans are just stupid and undermined his presidency. They gave control of the government to the gop and deserve the pain they will feel until such time as they sweep the gop away....which seems to be happening
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Dec 24, 2017 10:56
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"Obama: a better President than America deserved" seems like a statement most people on this forum would agree with regardless of their relative assessments of Obama or America respectively (because no matter how bad any given poster thinks Obama was, they likely believe Americans generally are worse).
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Dec 24, 2017 11:31
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icantfindaname posted:He also still refuses to explicitly acknowlege the Armenian genocide, so If I was a prominent media personality of Turkish descent who visited family in Turkey frequently I wouldn't say poo poo about the Armenian genocide either. I disagree in principle with getting done for blog posts you made 20 years ago. Especially if they were just as bad as rules for dating him. But there was more sexist stuff than that and he's been a bit... off about women ever since then too. Some comment here on his show, a tweet there, etc. Honestly I've been expecting a Cenk sexual assault callout ever since those started ramping up. Something about the guy. Maybe it's just former Republican stink, maybe it's not. So I more disagree on the idea that _someone_ should be done for 20 year old blog posts (unless they're like 70 or something, it's more that a 40 year old shouldn't get done for their politics at 20), than think Cenk specifically shouldn't have been asked to resign. Futuresight fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Dec 24, 2017 |
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Dec 24, 2017 11:37
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Main Paineframe posted:Seeing the Dems stand up and fight for something will absolutely energize the base. Meanwhile, if the Republicans stop people's Social Security checks and Medicare payments from going out in order to avoid having to fund children's healthcare, the Republican base are going to be furious. It's easy to say that Republicans don't care about government services, but a lot of their voters use and depend on those. If the government skips a round of disability checks or shuts down the VA hospitals, there's gonna be a lot of angry old white people with guns marching outside Republican offices in places like Tennessee and Mississippi. I agree with this less because I want their voters to pressure them to not eat as many faces (nice side effect) and more because their voters deserve to be punished. The regimes hilariously ineffectual attempts to do anything about the heroine epidemic fall into the same category.
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Dec 24, 2017 12:41
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Futuresight posted:If I was a prominent media personality of Turkish descent who visited family in Turkey frequently I wouldn't say poo poo about the Armenian genocide either. if you name yourself after the group that ended up committing the armenian genocide, you don't get to play coy. you either explicitly say "oh we only mean the first progressive phase of the young turk movement, not the genocidal late one" or you're a shithead.
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Dec 24, 2017 12:50
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:Cenk Uygur is perhaps the most annoying person I have ever seen or heard of. I know, it’s mesmerizing
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Dec 24, 2017 14:19
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Ganson posted:the heroine epidemic What, like, Wonder Woman? Also doing something explicitly to punish voters is stupid and spiteful. You get dem voters out by giving them something to believe in, not someone to poo poo on. Part of the calculus for dems is that their base is not spiteful old racist white people, so they have to act differently than republican politicians in order to get elected. This doesn't mean "don't fight for stuff" but it does mean that doing things out of spite isn't going to energize enough of their base to bring them out. Basically, shutting down the government over DACA might be worthwhile (I'm not really sure it is, given the things that stop happening during a government shutdown affect dem voters far more than republican ones, but it's arguable and republicans might blink first because Trump is a moron) but just doing it to punish people who pull the R lever isn't going to do anything good for us. LITERALLY MY FETISH fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Dec 24, 2017 |
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Dec 24, 2017 14:28
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icantfindaname posted:He also still refuses to explicitly acknowlege the Armenian genocide, so This is a lie. I've seen him mention it several times. The latest was in relation to the Rohingya genocide where Cenk brought up the Armenian genocide up as a thing that also happened.
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Dec 24, 2017 15:01
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Why is there a weather website called weather underground?
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Dec 24, 2017 15:03
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Why is there a weather website called weather underground? Pretty easy niche to fill: a static html page with a banner add, today's date, and a chart of temperature v depth
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Dec 24, 2017 15:20
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Cenks cohost is Armenian who, IIRC, lost family in the genocide. Maybe he still denies it but I can't see how at this point.
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Dec 24, 2017 15:51
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The Young Turks haven’t been relevant since the Bush administration. Lotta strange hand-wringing on this one.
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Dec 24, 2017 16:33
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Ornedan posted:This is a lie. I've seen him mention it several times. The latest was in relation to the Rohingya genocide where Cenk brought up the Armenian genocide up as a thing that also happened. Huh. Well, I guess that's better than nothing at least
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Dec 24, 2017 17:17
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icantfindaname posted:He also still refuses to explicitly acknowlege the Armenian genocide, so I avoided the young turks specifically because anything involving the word "turks" usually comes hand in hand with armenian genocide denial.
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Dec 24, 2017 18:21
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dbukalski posted:obama is not king. he is hamstrung by our flawed system. Honest question, just to get some idea where you stand politically - what are your feelings on Bill Clinton (politically, since I'd like to think most decent liberals would no longer like him as a person)? The issue with Obama is that he took certain actions (a good example is the oft-mentioned Geithner appointment) that were unrelated to Republican obstruction and don't make any sense given a "Obama was secretly left-wing" narrative. But if you're relatively centrist politically, it might make sense to come away from Obama's presidency with a positive impression.
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Dec 24, 2017 19:18
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Geithner's an odd case if you believe inside reports from the Obama administration at all because Obama was reportedly pretty livid when he discovered Geithner was doing literally nothing about criminal and malfeasant bankers and funds. It's still the worst thing about Obama's presidency to me, but my inclination at this time is that it was more about Obama's blind faith in technocratic "if you hire smart people they will do good things" and relative inexperience in managing large complex organizations. although then Holder didn't really break out the baseball bats on his end either also I'm a social democrat open to incrementalism, which makes me centrist if not conservative in relation to this thread 
Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Dec 24, 2017 |
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Dec 24, 2017 19:44
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If Obama was so livid he coulda fired the fucker at any time, but instead chose to keep him on until 2013. and the same thing applies to Holder, so I'm not sure I believe said insider reports are much more than post-facto asscovering. Either that or Obama wanted to keep somebody he knew was loving up in office for some inexplicable reason, which doesn't look very good either.
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Dec 24, 2017 19:59
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Obama promised to literally walk picket lines with striking workers if their collective bargaining rights were threatened: https://youtu.be/SA9KC8SMu3o 
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Dec 24, 2017 20:33
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B B posted:Obama promised to literally walk picket lines with striking workers if their collective bargaining rights were threatened: i think he meant "cross" that picket line
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Dec 24, 2017 20:50
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Supporting the coup in Honduras, or the Saudi intervention in Yemen also make no sense from the "Obama is a leftist who was constrained by intransigent republicans" perspective. Of course, anyone who still believed that after Obama and his people went all in for Theresa May in the UK will likely still not be convinced.
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Dec 24, 2017 20:56
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joepinetree posted:Supporting the coup in Honduras, or the Saudi intervention in Yemen also make no sense from the "Obama is a leftist who was constrained by intransigent republicans" perspective. Of course, anyone who still believed that after Obama and his people went all in for Theresa May in the UK will likely still not be convinced. By the end of the 20's, assuming there is one, we'll all dislike Obama as much as people are now starting to dislike Bill. Some of us, of course, are just ahead of the curve.
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Dec 24, 2017 20:57
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C. Everett Koop posted:By the end of the 20's, assuming there is one, we'll all dislike Obama as much as people are now starting to dislike Bill.. Only if he turns out to be a sex creep.
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Dec 24, 2017 21:00
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B B posted:Obama promised to literally walk picket lines with striking workers if their collective bargaining rights were threatened: Obama promised to end the ICE raids and then expanded them to unprecedented levels. He also promised to close Guantanamo on the premise that holding prisoners with no charge was immoral, then unvieled a plan to do the same thing, only in the US instead of Cuba. Pretended to be against the Iraq war and then fought for a status of forces agreement to preserve it. Obama was a conman
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Dec 24, 2017 21:44
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Nomiki Konst, reporter for The Young Turks and member of the Unity Reform Commission, who previously went viral for her rant about DNC funding during a meeting, has an interview where she talks more about politics within the actual DNC, the commission and internal struggles thereof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGPt31tJUyU
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Dec 24, 2017 22:52
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GreyjoyBastard posted:It's still the worst thing about Obama's presidency to me, but my inclination at this time is that it was more about Obama's blind faith in technocratic "if you hire smart people they will do good things" and relative inexperience in managing large complex organizations. Honestly, I agree about it being related to Obama's general feeling that you could rely on "smart/skilled" people (which generally happens to be defined as people with industry experience). I disagree with an interpretation that Obama was corrupt in the sense of actively trying to enrich (for example) the financial industry with an understanding that it wasn't good for the country. That being said, I think that sort of "having faith in other industry 'experts'" perspective is its own sort of corruption and probably describes most corruption on the Democratic side of the spectrum. Regarding incrementalism, I feel like it's misleading to consider it some either/or thing where the options are "incrementalism" or violent revolution. Like, from my perspective (and probably many others on the left), something like single-payer or a dramatic tax increase on the wealthy IS incrementalism. The bad kind of incrementalism that is usually criticized is an attitude that any positive progress, no matter how small, is a good and acceptable outcome*. The issue with this viewpoint is that it ignores the opportunity cost. For every year various good things aren't accomplished, more people continue to suffer. It's for this reason that I believe this sort of "as long as things work out in the end" incrementalism is fundamentally a product of privilege. There should be a sense of urgency to achieve a more equitable society, because there's a steep cost for every year we continue to not have one. * I think it's actually debatable whether the results of Democratic Party leadership will actually be considered positive in the long run. Their inaction on addressing various major issues could be considered a kind of harm through inaction. joepinetree posted:Supporting the coup in Honduras, or the Saudi intervention in Yemen also make no sense from the "Obama is a leftist who was constrained by intransigent republicans" perspective. Of course, anyone who still believed that after Obama and his people went all in for Theresa May in the UK will likely still not be convinced. My very generous interpretation of this is similar to the one GreyjoyBastard mentioned about appointing Geithner; I think that Obama simply listened to the recommendations of his staff and thought "I guess they know better than I do." (This isn't really a defense so much as a different interpretation of the way he was bad.) (It seems a little weird IMO to combine both foreign policy and domestic economic/social policy under the header of "leftism." Like, both those things are important, but I don't think they're strictly related; someone could have ideology intended to create an equitable society while also being a hawk with terrible ideas about interventionism being helpful. Then again, I do think it makes sense to include social issues under "leftism", since they're just another type of inequality to address. I guess maybe you could draw a similar parallel to foreign policy?) Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Dec 25, 2017 |
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Dec 24, 2017 23:54
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Chomskyan posted:Obama promised to end the ICE raids and then expanded them to unprecedented levels. Not closing Guantanamo was particularly egregious
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Dec 25, 2017 01:20
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