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I don't think that much time actually passed in the Rey plot. Luke said he'd basically teach her in a day.
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Dec 25, 2017 18:14
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Arglebargle III posted:We don't know anything about the new republic. that they were born from the “alliance to restore the republic” does not exactly inspire confidence. and everything in the sequel movies leads you to the conclusion that they failed to fix the errors of the old government.
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Dec 25, 2017 18:15
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Arglebargle III posted:We don't know anything about the new republic. Canto Bright exists, so we at least know the New Republic was at least permissive of slavery. Al Borland Corp. posted:One nitpick I've seen and subsequent explanation for said nitpick is The Last Jedi was released just a few days off from the first day of Hanukkah, so when that plot point came up I was half-expecting there to be some miracle of the force were the six hours of fuel lasts seven days. I still don't know if I'm relieved or disappointed that didn't happen.
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Dec 25, 2017 18:25
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Serf posted:that they were born from the “alliance to restore the republic” does not exactly inspire confidence. and everything in the sequel movies leads you to the conclusion that they failed to fix the errors of the old government. edit: and I don't think Chewie would be screwing around with a bunch of people that would put him back in chains once they reclaim power Grey Fox fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Dec 25, 2017 |
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Dec 25, 2017 18:26
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My read of The Old Republic and slavery was that it was de jure illegal, but also that the ability for the republic to enforce the laws against slavery were purposefully hobbled so that there was nothing they could do to actually stop it.
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Dec 25, 2017 18:34
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Grey Fox posted:But I'm unclear where you're getting the idea that the Republic was pro-slavery in government? Slavery was much more prevalent in the Outer Rim because the Republic couldn't be arsed to intervene in local affairs. Just because slavery existed doesn't mean the Republic was down with it like the Empire was. droids are held in bondage, clones are a slave army and they appear to have no issues with planets practicing slavery if TPM is anything to go by
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Dec 25, 2017 19:02
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Note, also, that the Jedi are essentially slaves.
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Dec 25, 2017 19:22
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Ok those are all fair points. The anti-slavery Republic is primarily lip service.
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Dec 25, 2017 20:16
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McCloud posted:Yes, people like Han, Luke and Leia whose strong convictions defeated the empire, restored the republic and ushered in a new era of peace and prosp..oh...oh wait, no that's not quite how it worked out, did it? No, what happened was, they instead apparently brought back a republic so inept and corrupt that the citizens of the galaxy didn't give a poo poo that the equivalent of Washington DC being nuked by spaze nazis, who then took power. Almost as if it's an indictment of liberal democracy and its potential to lead to fascism. Very weird, not at all relevant to today's society whatsoever.
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Dec 25, 2017 20:22
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WarEternal posted:Almost as if it's an indictment of liberal democracy and its potential to lead to fascism. Very weird, not at all relevant to today's society whatsoever. Yeah we should just go with communist dictatorships instead.
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Dec 25, 2017 20:25
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Instant Sunrise posted:My read of The Old Republic and slavery was that it was de jure illegal, but also that the ability for the republic to enforce the laws against slavery were purposefully hobbled so that there was nothing they could do to actually stop it. The planet with slaves was openly ruled by the same muppet gangster(?) during the period of the prequels and the original trilogy, who was allowed to maintain a monster pit with a different lethal giant muppet inside and a huge lethal sand vagina. Fantasy stories by their very nature resist complex conceptions of government because they require separate kingdoms that each have distinct absolute monarchs so that an episodic story can take place. The genre is inherently conservative, if not reactionary. This is why any notion of a representative democracy or republic in Star Wars will always have it looking inefficient and powerless, even if it’s supposed to be good, like in the new movies. It’s also obviously going to reflect the distortions and injustices of our own system that the filmmakers are blind to or accept as normal, like democracy seeming to mean they have more women ceos than the first order. I truly love hbomb, but sometimes he needs to draw a clearer line between ideology and representation when discussing what movies do.
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Dec 25, 2017 20:25
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Grey Fox posted:Ok those are all fair points. The anti-slavery Republic is primarily lip service. Padmé’s story is one of a well-meaning liberal slowly discovering that her beloved democracy isn’t nearly what she thought it was. It starts with learning just how racist her own society is against its neighbors and seeing that the Republic tolerates all these horrors at its periphery, and then she sees that she can do nothing to stop the inexorable march toward a pointless war. Anakin is alluring partly because he’s similarly aware of all that’s going wrong. The trouble is that he’s a young proto-fascist.
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Dec 25, 2017 20:26
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WarEternal posted:Almost as if it's an indictment of liberal democracy and its potential to lead to fascism. Very weird, not at all relevant to today's society whatsoever. One problem is that Star Wars has never made any suggestions about how its economy functions, and its heroes are mostly morally pure aristocrats who are most fit to rule by their inborn goodness, while the bad aristocrats ruin things by trying to overreach beyond what is natural.
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Dec 25, 2017 20:28
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Zoran posted:Padmé’s story is one of a well-meaning liberal slowly discovering that her beloved democracy isn’t nearly what she thought it was. It starts with learning just how racist her own society is against its neighbors and seeing that the Republic tolerates all these horrors at its periphery, and then she sees that she can do nothing to stop the inexorable march toward a pointless war. Anakin is alluring partly because he’s similarly aware of all that’s going wrong. The trouble is that he’s a young proto-fascist. The Jedi could have saved him but they only cared about decorum
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Dec 25, 2017 20:34
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WarEternal posted:Almost as if it's an indictment of liberal democracy and its potential to lead to fascism. Very weird, not at all relevant to today's society whatsoever. This is a sophism and a dumb meme. just another fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Dec 25, 2017 |
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Dec 25, 2017 20:39
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business hammocks posted:One problem is that Star Wars has never made any suggestions about how its economy functions, and its heroes are mostly morally pure aristocrats who are most fit to rule by their inborn goodness, while the bad aristocrats ruin things by trying to overreach beyond what is natural. It's provided enough of a framework for the audience to draw the conclusion that it's effectively a hypercapitalist future. The Trade Federation is a corporation large enough to hold a seat in the Senate, and the Separatists were materially backed by other megacorps.
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Dec 25, 2017 20:42
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Oh yeah here's something I thought I saw but I think I may have imagined because it didn't make sense and wasn't commented on. Could someone who's seen this more than one tell me if I imagined this?
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Dec 25, 2017 21:02
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Could someone who's seen this more than one tell me if I imagined this? You imagined it.
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Dec 25, 2017 21:11
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just another posted:Please don't repeat a dumb meme that I doubt you could elaborate on beyond "hmm, sounds provocative..." Huh? I agree with your other post, I dont think this film goes that far, but I wish it had. Especially the insinuation that just following orders would have resulted in a better outcome, and the fact that Rey kept the books was my main problem with the whole thing. Leia does make overtures towards the resistance being a sort of spark that will ignite revolution. Overall I found the themes pretty muddled, but it's more likely that the discord is between my desire for a more personally satisfying version of the film and the actuality than it is the film itself being confused about its themes.
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Dec 25, 2017 21:26
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WarEternal posted:Huh? I agree with your other post, I dont think this film goes that far, but I wish it had. Especially the insinuation that just following orders would have resulted in a better outcome, and the fact that Rey... was my main problem with the whole thing. Leia does make overtures towards the resistance being a sort of spark that will ignite revolution. Overall I found the themes pretty muddled, but it's more likely that the discord is between my desire for a more personally satisfying version of the film and the actuality than it is the film itself being confused about its themes. Sorry, edited it to be less of a jackass. What I meant was the whole "liberalism leads to fascism" meme which became popular on the forum around the time Trump was elected. It's a sophism. But yeah the film had a pretty clear message that good guys should be listened to and obeyed, because lots of people die if you don't. Between that and the reaffirmation of the Jedi Order, it's very reactionary.
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Dec 25, 2017 21:40
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i want hayden to be back in #9 to talk about unconditional love and look handsome
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Dec 25, 2017 21:59
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Wild Horses posted:i want hayden to be back in #9 to talk about unconditional love and look handsome Can you imagine how disappointed kylo ren would be to try meeting Darth Vader’s ghost and then have Christensen pick up and start giving him poo poo lines to run on Rey?
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Dec 25, 2017 22:07
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business hammocks posted:Can you imagine how disappointed kylo ren would be to try meeting Darth Vader’s ghost and then have Christensen pick up and start giving him poo poo lines to run on Rey?  I hate sand wow me too!
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Dec 25, 2017 22:32
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Ho ho ho! Merry Christmas from Santa Snoke!
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Dec 25, 2017 22:37
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Looks like the film is imploding at the box office. That sucks. I liked it. Probably means that so 9 is going to be a super-safe retread of ROTJ. Bleh.
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Dec 25, 2017 22:57
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Covok posted:Looks like the film is imploding at the box office. That sucks. I liked it. Probably means that so 9 is going to be a super-safe retread of ROTJ. Bleh. My surmise remains that it'll probably finish up around $900 million or so, which is very good but not for a Star Wars movie.
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Dec 25, 2017 23:01
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Wheat Loaf posted:My surmise remains that it'll probably finish up around $900 million or so, which is very good but not for a Star Wars movie. It's at eight hundred million now and that's before Christmas numbers, I think. I might be reading this wrong. Basing this off Box Office Mojo. So I think it's reasonable that it can beat a billion since it only needs another 200 million and it will be in theaters for a while. But I could easily be wrong. Frankly, I feel like Disney did bring this on themselves though. Their decision to release annually was a bad idea. I feel like the Han Solo movies actually going to bomb. Like bad for a normal movie. The reality is that this was not supposed to be something released annually. You do that and all the specialiness goes away. Doesn't matter how good the movies are at that point. It sucks as a Star Wars fan though. I actually like this new Direction, but there's no way they're going to commit to it now. Also, neo-nazis going to claim victory over this.
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Dec 25, 2017 23:05
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Covok posted:I feel like the Han Solo movies actually going to bomb. Like bad for a normal movie. So does Disney, apparently. If only because of all the other movies that are scheduled to come out around the same time (it's slated for a fortnight after Avengers, a week before Deadpool 2 and to a lesser extent Ocean's 8 and a fortnight before Incredibles 2). As for TLJ, I think the problem is that more or less everyone who wants to see it probably has seen it, and the poor word of mouth around it will put off other people who might have gone otherwise. Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Dec 25, 2017 |
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Dec 25, 2017 23:08
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Wheat Loaf posted:So does Disney, apparently. https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/12/25/can-star-wars-recover-from-last-jedis-rave-reviews-and-huge-grosses/#331b235d7d2e Well this gives me a little hope that the movie still going to do well. Essentially, this might just all be normal for a movie like this.
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Dec 25, 2017 23:15
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Covok posted:https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/12/25/can-star-wars-recover-from-last-jedis-rave-reviews-and-huge-grosses/#331b235d7d2e I've mentioned before that Forbes is very odd about this. They have two main movie guys from what I can tell. There's Scott Mendelson, who liked the movie and puts a fairly positive spin on everything, then there's Rob Cain, who didn't like the movie and has mainly commented that it (and probably the entire Star Wars franchise) is done for and there's no way back for it. They're both using the same numbers but they seem to have arrived at different conclusions from them. I think it'll be like Batman v Superman. That was another movie that was "supposed" to make a billion dollars, had a very big debut, dropped very steeply in its second week and ultimately fell short of what its studio wanted.
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Dec 25, 2017 23:27
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Wheat Loaf posted:I think it'll be like Batman v Superman. That was another movie that was "supposed" to make a billion dollars, had a very big debut, dropped very steeply in its second week and ultimately fell short of what its studio wanted.
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Dec 25, 2017 23:31
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Wheat Loaf posted:I've mentioned before that Forbes is very odd about this. They have two main movie guys from what I can tell. There's Scott Mendelson, who liked the movie and puts a fairly positive spin on everything, then there's Rob Cain, who didn't like the movie and has mainly commented that it (and probably the entire Star Wars franchise) is done for and there's no way back for it. They're both using the same numbers but they seem to have arrived at different conclusions from them. I'm in accounting. Let me tell you a little secret: numbers actually mean really little. Oh sure, you can derive a lot from numbers, but you're limited by your own perspectives. 2 + 2 will always equal 4, but is for a big number or a small number? Maybe that's a bad example, but I have definitely seen people take great numbers and say they're terrible and take bad numbers and say they're good. It all comes down to perspective. I once saw a company lay off a lot of people because they were expecting 16% growth in a year and they only got 10, which is still very good for a company that old. What really defines numbers is your expectations and your biases. They say, for example, you should always set your expectations with investors low because, if you don't meet them, you're punished, but, even if expectation were low, if you exceed them, you're rewarded. What I'm saying is, one of the guys like the movie so he can make the number say good things. One of the other guys is clearly one of the fans who absolutely despises it and want Star Wars dead because he didn't like one movie and is making the number say bad things. Maybe I'm being harsh on the latter, but if that's actually happening then it's not far off the mark.
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Dec 25, 2017 23:32
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Covok posted:I'm in accounting. Let me tell you a little secret: numbers actually mean really little. I think the numbers are really interesting especially as regards movies (I enjoy that kind of trivia) but I must confess I don't completely understand them.
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Dec 25, 2017 23:34
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Star Wars (the original) hasn't turned a profit on paper. No movie does.
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Dec 25, 2017 23:44
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jivjov posted:You imagined it. I feel like Mike when he thought Yoda was dancing in front of the fire
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Dec 26, 2017 00:20
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Numbers are only good if they're divisible by two AND three.
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Dec 26, 2017 00:50
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Arglebargle III posted:Numbers are only good if they're divisible by two AND three. That's a really, really, really subtle jab at the sequels.
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Dec 26, 2017 00:57
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Covok posted:Looks like the film is imploding at the box office. That sucks. I liked it. Probably means that so 9 is going to be a super-safe retread of ROTJ. Bleh. Maybe Disney needs to re-edit the existing films.
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Dec 26, 2017 01:08
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Covok posted:Looks like the film is imploding at the box office. That sucks. I liked it. Probably means that so 9 is going to be a super-safe retread of ROTJ. Bleh. This film was already super-safe. I'm not sure if I've ever seen a better example of an Operation Margarine story.
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Dec 26, 2017 01:10
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In the end does a big budget movie in Hollywood really turn a profit? They can do all kinds of poo poo with accounting there and get away with not paying taxes or actors or whatever by saying they didn't make a profit off Harry Potter or something and I think they've been sued at times for it. It probably depends on how the dude probably feels at the time, maybe this movie doesn't make movie producer Avatar all time #1 money and he goes in a pit of despair and says cancel all the Star Wars.
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