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Arrhythmia posted:He is right that Dune isn't fascist though. Super nondemocratic and eugenic-y though Far weirder was the implication that most Sci Fi is fascist.
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Dec 26, 2017 02:25
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DebonaireD posted:Dune is good because its like the one sci fi franchise that isnt pro fascist and doesnt have a deep problem with women im harah, i was jamis property until paul killed him, now i belong to paul 
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Dec 26, 2017 02:28
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The Bloop posted:Super nondemocratic and eugenic-y though Yeah it's not like a socialist masterpiece
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Dec 26, 2017 02:37
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DebonaireD posted:The bene gesserit are not the bad guys, that's the emperor and the harkonnen. The witches are power brokers, royal advisors, commandos and the secret orchestrators of galactic events on the millenial scale. They hold all the cards and its not exactly clear that Paul is frustrating their carefully laid plans. Yeah that doesn't sound like an overarching sinister organization at all
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Dec 26, 2017 02:51
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The Bloop posted:Super nondemocratic and eugenic-y though Or that leftists made uniformly utopian sci fi. I mean Vonnegut alone. Heres a cool tidbit: Herbert started a multi decade career as a newspaperman before he hit 18. The dystopic setting of Dune can be seen as a reaction against the sci fi scene he navigated later which largely subsisted on wide eyed views of human nature that he probably had little patience for as a seasoned journalist. Another interesting tidbit is that Dune grew out of an article about the battle against desertification in Oregon.
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Dec 26, 2017 02:54
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Mein Kampf Enthusiast posted:Yeah that doesn't sound like an overarching sinister organization at all they are literal witches that stab children with poison needles for obscure ideological reasons lol
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Dec 26, 2017 02:59
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sebmojo posted:they are literal witches that stab children with poison needles for obscure ideological reasons lol #DuneHatesWomen
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Dec 26, 2017 03:00
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DebonaireD posted:Are Toto gonna be blasting out power chords while Paul conquers the worm? No? Then who gives a shiiiitt Trailer Music by Sunn O))) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a0Z2yndlOs fade up to thopters flying over arrakis FEAR. cuts to closeup of Paul reciting(I say Dev Patel, its gonna be weird with a pale white guy in a desert the entire time) FEAR IS THE MIND KILLER BATTLE SHOTS FEAR IS THE blah blah voiceover the entirety shots of benegesserit witches, assorted characters fromthe houses, esp House Harkonnen, more battles, fremen, knife fighting, a vague shape of a navigator in a tank, solid neon blue eyes, END WITH SHOT OF SANDWORM BREECHING smash cut to WINTER 2020
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Dec 26, 2017 03:10
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Really every faction in Dune hurts people for obscure ideological reasons, none moreso than the actual heroes.
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Dec 26, 2017 03:12
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Dec 26, 2017 03:19
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Let's talk about how homophobic dune is Heres my take: it's fairly
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Dec 26, 2017 03:36
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The Gene Gesserit show how twisted and hosed up religion is more than women, imo.
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Dec 26, 2017 03:39
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paul_soccer10 posted:Let's talk about how homophobic dune is Hell, hosed up if false
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Dec 26, 2017 03:42
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Arrhythmia posted:Hell, hosed up if false It's the straight line computation. Depend on it
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Dec 26, 2017 04:11
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I'm also wondering about people's take on what book 7 would've been. I don't like the version his son wrote, it was much too literal and dull and confusing. Was the final enemy the machines or was it a form of those Face Dancers who have achieved a sort of hive-mind? I read a really good summary of what the Face Dancer's final goal would be a while back, but can't find it.
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Dec 26, 2017 05:41
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Ccs posted:I'm also wondering about people's take on what book 7 would've been. I don't like the version his son wrote, it was much too literal and dull and confusing. But it was aliens
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Dec 26, 2017 05:59
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:I'm not saying the Honored Matres were fleeing from aliens. Aliens with computers. Or just humans from farther out who never gave up their computers. it was aliens
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Dec 26, 2017 06:30
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Face dancers goal is to make everyone a face dancer.
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Dec 26, 2017 08:54
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D U N E - T O T O
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Dec 26, 2017 14:15
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BIG MEATY SHITS posted:im harah, i was jamis property until paul killed him, now i belong to paul They are space muslims sheesh
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Dec 26, 2017 14:56
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Ccs posted:I'm also wondering about people's take on what book 7 would've been. I don't like the version his son wrote, it was much too literal and dull and confusing. Brian and KJA made it the machines which is retarded because Frank explicitly mentions that they are face dancers lol Also IIRC the entire "thousands of years of prepping humans to survive the final battle" thing AKA the entire overarching plot of the books is entirely invalidated when a literal deus ex machina appears and basically habd-waves away the final enemy, no wonder old-school Dune fans hated the Brian/KJA books lol
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Dec 26, 2017 15:01
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We saw you coming from the other sietch. 
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Dec 26, 2017 15:55
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Shageletic posted:The Dune miniseries but not the Children one. James Mcavoy was insanely charasmatic and it had pretty suprising level of production leve and the like. The best part about it, other than possibly McAvoy, was that they kept the actor for the Baron in Alia's head from the first miniseries. Any new version of Dune is going to suffer without that guy imo.
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Dec 26, 2017 15:57
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Zeniel posted:We saw you coming from the other sietch. 
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Dec 26, 2017 15:59
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Dec 26, 2017 16:10
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Ccs posted:I'm also wondering about people's take on what book 7 would've been. I don't like the version his son wrote, it was much too literal and dull and confusing. It was Face Dancers that had absorbed so many personas that they were becoming (or became) basically reverend mothers. It's pretty obvious from the last book when the 2 at the end were talking about the Masters and how they were always whistling at them.
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Dec 26, 2017 16:15
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I clearly remember the day my friend gave me a pretty battered copy of Dune, sometime around 1996 when I was a raging fantasy/sci-fi consuming teenager and boy it BLEW my loving mind. The images in my head is still as clear as day while I'm having a hard time remembering what my breakfast was today. Messiah of Dune and Children of Dune are pretty baller books, especially loving the Children of Dune for some reason. Messiah of Dune has Paul trying to teach Stilgar about power and old Terra citing how many people Genghis Khan and Hitler killed and Stilgar being "LMAO, I killed 6 billion people during the last war, those are rookie numbers" and Paul being all  I would like to use this opportunity to remind everyone that this happened in Chapterhouse Atreides: A spoiled nobleman gets butthurt because Duncan Idaho chaos dunks him in Ginaz during swordmaster training. The nobleman whatshisface then brings his own army to the planet and attacks the school, finds Duncan to have a 1v1, draws his katana then goes like "This blade is too good for you" and draws his kindjal dagger only to get stabbed in the face by Duncan. They are that bad and I will hate Brian Herbert forever for making me read that because of my blind nostalgia for his fathers books. Godbless.
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Dec 26, 2017 17:10
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:The best part about it, other than possibly McAvoy, was that they kept the actor for the Baron in Alia's head from the first miniseries. Any new version of Dune is going to suffer without that guy imo. The actor for the baron was really great.
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Dec 26, 2017 17:12
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Hes also the newsreader in hbos rome. No point to this post really but I like hbos rome
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Dec 26, 2017 17:13
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i was about to post the same thing lmao. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIMGmbbx37A
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Dec 26, 2017 17:14
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I'm reading Dune for the first time. The only thing that confuses me really is what the Kwisatz Haderach is supposed to be, and also what the idea is behind the... I forget the name, but something Mother that Jessica is turned into. I find that sometimes the book references things that I don't recognize, and wonder if I just missed something.
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Dec 26, 2017 17:43
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I'm curious about the "secret Jews" they talk about in one of the later books
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Dec 26, 2017 17:46
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actionjackson posted:I'm reading Dune for the first time. The only thing that confuses me really is what the Kwisatz Haderach is supposed to be, and also what the idea is behind the... I forget the name, but something Mother that Jessica is turned into. I find that sometimes the book references things that I don't recognize, and wonder if I just missed something. This covers it in depth. Crazy depth, and is heavily spoilered. You should get an understanding of it because, basically, it is the basis for the whole Dune enchilada. http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Kwisatz_Haderach
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Dec 26, 2017 17:51
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Kwisatz Haderach is also modern Hebrew for "jumping of the path" (more accurately it would be Kfitsat Haderech but close enough IMO)
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Dec 26, 2017 17:56
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Mein Kampf Enthusiast posted:I'm curious about the "secret Jews" they talk about in one of the later books The books are replete with Jewish references. An example from the Dune Wikia on the Kwisatz Haderach: quote:It's very likely that the term was borrowed by Frank Herbert from the Kabbala, the compilation of Jewish mysticism the core of which is entitled HaZohar (The Book of Splendor) ascribed to Rabbi Shimon bar-Yohai, ascribed by Jews to have been written in the 1st century C.E. Modern scholars ascribe it to a sephardic Jewish author around the 13th century. The term itself is Hebrew, K'fitzat ha-Derekh, literally, "The Leap of the Way," by means of which an initiate may travel some distance instantaneously, appearing to be in two or more places at once. Also, the title " Bene Gesserit", resembles an appellation of the Jewish people, Bene Jeshurun, especially as "Gesserit" is pronounced with a soft "G". "Bene Jeshurun" means, roughly "Sons of Israel". quote:Many words, titles and names (e.g. the Padishah Emperor Shaddam IV, Hawat, Bashar, Harq-al-Ada) in the Dune universe as well as a large number of words in the language of the Fremen people are derived or taken directly from Persian and Arabic (e.g. erg, the Arabic word for a broad flat landform, is used frequently throughout the novel). Paul's messianic name (Muad'Dib) means in Arabic "the teacher or maker of politeness or literature", and the prophesied appearance of one known as the "Kwisatz Haderach", meaning "one who shortens the way" borrows the Hebrew term Kefitzat Haderech (קְפִיצַת הַדֶּרֶךְ), a Kabbalistic Jewish term meaning one who can "clench the way", i.e. the distance between two places - and teleport. The Fremen language is also embedded with Islamic terms such as, jihad, Mahdi, Shaitan, and the personal bodyguard of Paul Muad'Dib Fedaykin is a transliteration of the Arabic Feda'yin. As a foreigner who adopts the ways of a desert-dwelling people and then leads them in a military capacity, Paul Atreides' character bears many similarities to the historical T. E. Lawrence. Lesley Blanch's The Sabres of Paradise has also been identified as a major influence upon Dune, with its depiction of Imam Shamil and the Islamic culture of the Caucasus inspirings some of the characters, events and terminology of Dune.
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Dec 26, 2017 17:59
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The son made some awesome prequel books.
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Dec 26, 2017 18:09
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Lukewarm Gazpacho posted:It was Face Dancers that had absorbed so many personas that they were becoming (or became) basically reverend mothers. It's pretty obvious from the last book when the 2 at the end were talking about the Masters and how they were always whistling at them. The summary I read talked about how the Face Dancers were an existential crisis for the Honored Matres and Bene Gesserit because they represent democracy or equality or something in contrast to the Matres and Gesserit tyrannical rule. It was well reasoned but I'm trying to figure how the Face Dancers would actually introduce equality to the universe other than by absorbing everyone.
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Dec 26, 2017 18:34
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Piggy Smalls posted:The son made some awful prequel books. ftfy
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Dec 26, 2017 18:35
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Piggy Smalls posted:The son made some awesome prequel books. please don't troll
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Dec 26, 2017 18:35
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Ccs posted:The summary I read talked about how the Face Dancers were an existential crisis for the Honored Matres and Bene Gesserit because they represent democracy or equality or something in contrast to the Matres and Gesserit tyrannical rule. It was well reasoned but I'm trying to figure how the Face Dancers would actually introduce equality to the universe other than by absorbing everyone. honored matres wiki article says they hate the tleilaxu because they bioengineered and enslaved their own women into axlotl tanks to create facedancers and those axlotl tank-women evolved in part into honored matres who are still mad about it, which is very stupid writing lol
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Dec 26, 2017 18:39
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