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I do wonder if introducing the hyperspace ramming tactic was a mistake long term, because it's gonna be tough to write a desperate space battle scene now without people going "hey why don't they just take one of their fighters and just hyperspeed ram that big ship?"
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Dec 26, 2017 16:17
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Turtlicious posted:I really like the Prequels, Obi Wan has an amazing character arc. Eh, not really. It’s played well but there isn’t any important arc. I urge you to check out Clone Wars. They handle Anakin and Obi Wan really well. And the new apprentice Ahsoka is one of the best characters in Star Wars with an actual true arc. She rejects the idea of the Jedi in the end and goes on her own. The events leading up to that are done much better than the fall of Anakin in the movies. TheBigBudgetSequel posted:Uh, TLJ is one of the best of the series, the prequels have nothing to do with it. It’s a step above the Prequels at its best.
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Dec 26, 2017 16:22
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Steve2911 posted:Why has no one considered that no one had attempted the ram before Holdo and she didn't actually know what would happen? Because George Lucas never thought or doing it.
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Dec 26, 2017 16:26
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:Uh, TLJ is one of the best of the series, the prequels have nothing to do with it. If the best of the series is boring, depressing and almost completely uninteresting then Star Wars is pretty dire. I do want to say though, visually I really liked most of the throne room scene and the fight on the blood dust planet at the end.
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Dec 26, 2017 16:31
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The shots of Holdo's aftermath was one of the best shots in all of Star Wars.
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Dec 26, 2017 16:32
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So far in terms of sheer spectacle I don't think they've topped the finale of Rogue One, where the Star Destroyer falls into the shield and everything explodes. The hyperspeed ram in this one came close but didn't quite get there imo.
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Dec 26, 2017 16:39
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Basebf555 posted:So far in terms of sheer spectacle I don't think they've topped the finale of Rogue One, where the Star Destroyer falls into the shield and everything explodes. The hyperspeed ram in this one came close but didn't quite get there imo. Rogue One’s sense of scale, perspective and giving things weight was great. We had shots that weren’t common place and it really put a good sense into how big or lumbering these ships were. Even the shots of the Death Star and the nuclear impacts of the laser fire.
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Dec 26, 2017 16:56
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:It is worse than that - it's a corporate message. hey at least its honest
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Dec 26, 2017 17:01
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LinYutang posted:Narrator: "It wasn't interesting."
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Dec 26, 2017 17:04
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Basebf555 posted:I do wonder if introducing the hyperspace ramming tactic was a mistake long term, because it's gonna be tough to write a desperate space battle scene now without people going "hey why don't they just take one of their fighters and just hyperspeed ram that big ship?" Something something the flagship didn't have it's secondary shields activated because it was diverting energy to try and extent the range on its lazers. Also unless a ship is big enough to generate a minutely-more-than negligible gravity field you wouldn't have the inertial collapse, furthermore the
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Dec 26, 2017 17:04
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I skipped 50 pages and you stupid nerds are still arguing about hyperspace kamikaze
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Dec 26, 2017 17:07
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Because poor taste, terrorism (don’t want Rebel Alliance to be Al Quesa/ISIS right?), storytelling impact, etc. This is a story, save the ramming for dramatic impact than tactical realism has to make logical real world sense poo poo or whatever.
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Dec 26, 2017 17:07
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Rogue One was what you could call a flawed film with redeemable qualities. The space battle and Vader opening up the playbook on Rebel troopers was worth the price of admission alone. The Last Jedi doesn't really have any of that. It's there to satisfy itself and its creator's sense of intellectual superiority at the cost of making a coherent or entertaining film. It shows all the classic flaws of a film school short. Trying to do too much, not focusing on the small moments, having a plot that's too busy and too complex for its own good. Plots should be simple - 1, 2, 3. Characterization should be complex. It's the Nolan disease - everyone wants to have some overly convoluted rear end pull plot to show how brilliant they are. Star Wars was from its inception a study of the monomyth - it was all about simplification and finding the lowest common denominator everyone could relate to. Everyone needs to go loving read Syd Field and Joseph Campbell. Screenwriters have to conform to screenwriting norms or their scripts get thrown in the trash. Likewise there's nothing new under the sun with storytelling in terms of its core tenants and underpinnings - in order to be better storytellers filmmakers really need to stick to brass tacks and not try to be so wanky with plot. Chickenwalker fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Dec 26, 2017 |
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Dec 26, 2017 17:09
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Noonsa posted:Sometimes I think the Chicken Little "OMG Star Wars ruined forever by TLJ" have some valid points, but then I read poo poo where people think that Luke brushing the dust off his shoulder is some hip-hop pop culture reference and then I realize that they are irrational little self-entitled crybabies. Real talk: if you believe this you need to work on your media literacy. Not everyone who disagrees with you is the same person.
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Dec 26, 2017 17:25
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CelticPredator posted:Because George Lucas never thought or doing it. Because Star Wars combat is World War 1 and World War 2 in space, and ramming was never particularly devastating for warships of that era. This is another example of fans getting in to the writing office and misunderstanding what the thing they love was about in the first place. Hyperdrive isn't real.
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Dec 26, 2017 17:26
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Luke facing down Kylo and the AT-ATs was pure Star Wars and if the 8 year old inside you wasn't grinning form ear to ear the entire time then why even watch these movies at all?
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Dec 26, 2017 17:31
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Arglebargle III posted:Because Star Wars combat is World War 1 and World War 2 in space, and ramming was never particularly devastating for warships of that era. I don't think it matters either way, but warships were successfully ramming each other all the time in World War II. It was noted as a particularly effective tactic against surfaced submarines.
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Dec 26, 2017 17:40
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Basebf555 posted:So far in terms of sheer spectacle I don't think they've topped the finale of Rogue One, where the Star Destroyer falls into the shield and everything explodes. The hyperspeed ram in this one came close but didn't quite get there imo. vader parking his ship in front of the fleeing rebels really spells out how bad poo poo is going to go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4gpgZO7NEQ
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Dec 26, 2017 17:50
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Vitamin P posted:Something something the flagship didn't have it's secondary shields activated because it was diverting energy to try and extent the range on its lazers. Also unless a ship is big enough to generate a minutely-more-than negligible gravity field you wouldn't have the inertial collapse, furthermore the i think everyones fine with some bullshit explanation. it would have been very easy to establish in the movie, at several points beforehand. for example, 'divert shield power to forward batteries, i want those transports destroyed!'
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Dec 26, 2017 17:55
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"The last thing we need is loose canon fly boys going off the handle and getting people killed  " she said, steering her ship for a kamikaze light speed attack that didnt work.
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Dec 26, 2017 18:14
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Reminder that the Last Jedi is the best Star Wars movie.
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Dec 26, 2017 18:21
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I appreciate that the ramming attack demonstrates that Star Destroyers are actually obsolete as weapons of war, like battleships in ww2 or aircraft carriers now, but still sucking up immense resources as prestige items
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Dec 26, 2017 18:23
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I seriously can't believe people are nitpicking the coolest spaceship scene in a Star Wars movie. What does it matter that it hasn't been shown before? The Star Wars universe is so inconsistent and nonsensical that it shouldn't matter at all.
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Dec 26, 2017 18:23
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my wife didn't notice the kid using the Force to get the broom at the end. do we think that kid is gonna be the star of the next trilogy?
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Dec 26, 2017 18:29
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precision posted:my wife didn't notice the kid using the Force to get the broom at the end. do we think that kid is gonna be the star of the next trilogy? Probably not, and I extremely hope not. Kids are terrible.
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Dec 26, 2017 18:32
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Mullitt posted:I seriously can't believe people are nitpicking the coolest spaceship scene in a Star Wars movie. It's a question of aesthetic discontinuity. Physics have been introduced in the quasi-naval engagements of Star Wars, and this undermines them. The attack is even presented as a giant breach that tears the visuals apart. Also it's done by a purple-haired liberal socialite, which is a waste. It should have been Kylo Ren who ordered a kamikaze attack on the Resistance, because he's the character that wants to destroy old institutions.
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Dec 26, 2017 18:36
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Mymla posted:Probably not, and I extremely hope not. Kids are terrible. Oh no I meant "the grown up version of that kid" since presumably the next trilogy will be another 10-20 years in the future
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Dec 26, 2017 18:48
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:It's a question of aesthetic discontinuity. Physics have been introduced in the quasi-naval engagements of Star Wars, and this undermines them. The attack is even presented as a giant breach that tears the visuals apart. This doesn't undermine anything. This wasn't an ideological kamikaze attack, it's a desperate move by a character who's watching everyone she knows get blown up. It has to be surprising to make it have more impact to the audience and the characters. In many ways it's a logical extension of the more physical, weighty spaceships we've seen in the new Star Wars films. This kinda stuff wasn't possible with the old film making technology in the OT and the prequels went a more cartoony direction with the space battle.
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Dec 26, 2017 18:55
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Holdo's a leftist, not a liberal. The liberals are the ones who refused to answer the distress call because it would be uncouth and taking the low road and/or the war profiteers
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Dec 26, 2017 18:59
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CelticPredator posted:Because George Lucas never thought or doing it. Or perhaps because it's dumb and from now on every space scene will need a concvoluted reason as to why people aren't ramming spaceships everywhere
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Dec 26, 2017 19:01
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Mullitt posted:This doesn't undermine anything. This wasn't an ideological kamikaze attack, it's a desperate move by a character who's watching everyone she knows get blown up. The character is a leader in a military uprising. It's by definition an ideological act. The reason it doesn't seem like that is because the character's ideology is vague establishment liberalism, so the attack is incongruous. Mullitt posted:In many ways it's a logical extension of the more physical, weighty spaceships we've seen in the new Star Wars films. This kinda stuff wasn't possible with the old film making technology in the OT and the prequels went a more cartoony direction with the space battle. You seem to have imagined a point where Star Wars was not cartoony in all respects.
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Dec 26, 2017 19:02
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The character is a leader in a military uprising. It's by definition an ideological act. The reason it doesn't seem like that is because the character's ideology is vague establishment liberalism, so the attack is incongruous. And now I remember why it's never worth discussing Star Wars on this forum.
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Dec 26, 2017 19:06
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:Holdo's a leftist, not a liberal. The liberals are the ones who refused to answer the distress call because it would be uncouth and taking the low road and/or the war profiteers What leftist ideal does Holdo stand for?
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Dec 26, 2017 19:06
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McCloud posted:Or perhaps because it's dumb and from now on every space scene will need a concvoluted reason as to why people aren't ramming spaceships everywhere they could insert a scene in a new film where a ramming attack doesnt work, or even a blurb like 'Hyper deflectors up, lets not have a repeat of last year', and fix it. but it is dumb and bad that it even needs fixing when they couldve preempted the problem.
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Dec 26, 2017 19:08
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They could make it a flaw that only affects big non spherical ships and the next movie could be Hux whining about Kylo’s Need to have triangular ships bigger than his grandpas even though everyone has known for millennia that giant triangular ships are susceptible to hyperspace ramming but Kylo is all “No kill the past except when it comes to giant triangular ships don’t bury those bigger bigger!” and the movie ends with all of the main characters in quick succession hyperspace ramming their ships into Kylo’s planet sized triangular ship (called a Elephantine Star Destroyer in the illustrated supplementary material) but even though that damages the ship it’s not until a heretofore unknown boy sends a broom into hyperspace from across the galaxy which Rose (the only character who didn’t die ramming Kylo’s ship) watches from a nearby planet as the broom goes right into The Elephantine Star Destroyer’s exhaust port (explained in a later movie to have been discovered by Chewie and a team of Porgs) resulting in a massive explosion and celebrations across the galaxy (including Porg Planet in a later special edition).
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Dec 26, 2017 19:26
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Sinding Johansson posted:What leftist ideal does Holdo stand for?
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Dec 26, 2017 19:34
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For several minutes I didn't even recognize her as Laura Dern, I thought she was Carol from The Walking Dead with a wig on
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Dec 26, 2017 19:38
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The whole slow chase thing for the whole movies makes no sense much like all Star Wars battles. It is like the Empire is sworn to use tactics to build to a point of self sacrifice of the enemy that resolves a bad story to the desired conclusion. There must be another bad baddie that needs new force users so he can eat their souls and so he controls all these bad stories for that end. And that bad baddie is Mickey Mouse and his end is all the money in the world.
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Dec 26, 2017 19:45
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McCloud posted:Or perhaps because it's dumb and from now on every space scene will need a concvoluted reason as to why people aren't ramming spaceships everywhere This only applies to complete idiots.
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Dec 26, 2017 19:53
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McCloud posted:Or perhaps because it's dumb and from now on every space scene will need a concvoluted reason as to why people aren't ramming spaceships everywhere Not really because Star Wars is not concerned about Internet people arguing space tactics
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Dec 26, 2017 19:57
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