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Dick Burglar posted:I was not aware of this character. I googled her: Gross fetishism is the backbone of L5R. Just mention Kachiko and a fanboy somewhere wi wank themselves into a stupor over her magic vagina. But its ok you know because shes 'smart'.
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Dec 24, 2017 12:24
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Aramoro posted:Kachiko Scorpion fanboy here so  Seriously though I don't remember magic girl parts. I get the uncomfortable feeling there was some fiction I never read where she suppressed Fu Leng-Hantei that way...I thought she just poisoned him. With tea. If there was anything weird about Kachiko I'd say it was the virgin-whore thing. She was Rokugan's most notorious and shameless hot and hedonistic seductress BUT ACTUALLY she never sealed any deals and was always faithful to her husband ('cept re: Hoturi). So yeah that was kind of a pedestal she was on, and that was weird. Sounds like it's for the best I checked out of the story before Korimi became a thing. I'd never heard of her before.
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Dec 24, 2017 20:57
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L5R from the start had a problem where every story lead or major dev had a favorite clan and then stuck their samurai waifu into that clan as well. From the weird virgin/whore thing with Kachiko on, you can pretty much figure out who was in charge for any release by looking at which clan got the most sympathetic write up and most new stuff, and then which fetishized female character got a disproportionate amount of attention.
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Dec 24, 2017 21:25
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SuperKlaus posted:Scorpion fanboy here so Well not literally magical but you get the idea. Just awful awful writing. You could see the fanboys whipped into a frenzy by the concept that Kachiko and Hotaru might not be 'involved' in the new fiction. Not that thry could possibly just be intellectual equals but it has to be romantic as well.
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Dec 24, 2017 21:45
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As I understand it, Ree Soesbee received death and rape threats over Doji Shizue. I wish I could say that's unusual for the L5R community but, well... I've seen it at its best, and I've seen it at its absolute darkest worst. Aramoro posted:You could see the fanboys whipped into a frenzy by the concept that Kachiko and Hotaru might not be 'involved' in the new fiction. Not that thry could possibly just be intellectual equals but it has to be romantic as well. But they are romantically involved in the story. Or at least they were. They established that in an early fiction. Or are you saying before they revealed that, fanboys were upset that their relationship might not be canon? Edit: Also, I believe Kachiko was John Wick's girlfriend's insert character. His was Bayushi Yojiro, if my sources are correct. Just in case you didn't think it was weird/awkward enough. Spookyelectric fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Dec 24, 2017 |
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Dec 24, 2017 22:04
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Spookyelectric posted:
Before it was revealed, no obviously they're happy to have thier lesbianism to wank over. Its tragically awful writing which makes L5R a dirty secret really. They can't just have Kachiko being clever, it has to be seducing people,and in turning showing othet characters to be idiots.
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Dec 24, 2017 22:23
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Um... okay.
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Dec 24, 2017 22:26
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Spookyelectric posted:Um... okay. I know card games are not the best places to look for good fiction but it could try being non awful at least.
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Dec 24, 2017 22:32
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I'm just trying to think of a place in the current fictions where she acts like a seductress as you describe, and I can't really recall one. There's a point in one of the pack fictions where she shows her wrist to the Oromo Daimyo to distract him. But that's not really seduction, per se. I think that's the only one, right? The rest of the fics so far don't really characterize her as they did in the old game, at least that's what I thought. Which fiction or scene from the new canon am I forgetting?
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Dec 24, 2017 23:09
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At least there's enough 'woke' people to shame the guy who posted the anime Kachiko in a bikini by a pool on the Facebook group. I really wish there was some kind of equivalent for straight white guys that you could use to make them feel as uncomfortable as women do when those things get posted. But hey "it's just boobs, lol".
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Dec 25, 2017 12:38
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PaybackJack posted:At least there's enough 'woke' people to shame the guy who posted the anime Kachiko in a bikini by a pool on the Facebook group. I really wish there was some kind of equivalent for straight white guys that you could use to make them feel as uncomfortable as women do when those things get posted. But hey "it's just boobs, lol". You mean with all the bishi Crane running around shirtless there isn't L5R yaoi out there?
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Dec 25, 2017 18:34
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PJOmega posted:You mean with all the bishi Crane running around shirtless there isn't L5R yaoi out there? I'm sure there is but my problem is really less with the art, and more with the type of misogyny it attracts. Don't get me wrong; I definitely lean towards the 'anime is a lazy form of art' camp(and I say this having dated a girl who created highly sexualized anime art for a living so I know how quick she can turn the stuff out), but if posting that kind of art didn't also lead to a dozen posts about the sexual acts that grown men would perform on said character or a dozen more posts with eye rolling innuendo; it would be easier to put up with.
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Dec 25, 2017 19:16
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PaybackJack posted:I'm sure there is but my problem is really less with the art, and more with the type of misogyny it attracts. Don't get me wrong; I definitely lean towards the 'anime is a lazy form of art' camp(and I say this having dated a girl who created highly sexualized anime art for a living so I know how quick she can turn the stuff out), but if posting that kind of art didn't also lead to a dozen posts about the sexual acts that grown men would perform on said character or a dozen more posts with eye rolling innuendo; it would be easier to put up with. Ugh, I've stayed away from any anime art community for so long I forgot how it'd be filled with such comments. Fair enough.
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Dec 25, 2017 19:23
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Spookyelectric posted:I'm just trying to think of a place in the current fictions where she acts like a seductress as you describe, and I can't really recall one. It's right in the very first fiction, Her Father's Daughter. Quote, page 8: "Each of the Scorpion’s movements was deliberate and calculated even as she spoke. From a kimono slit to reveal almost scandalous glimpses of her legs as she walked, to a head tilted just enough to expose a barely appropriate amount of shoulder, Bayushi Kachiko was all about effect—and that effect was the seductive promise of more."
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Dec 25, 2017 19:49
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I must've forgotten that it was more than a glimpse of wrist to the Otomo Daimyo. I do think they turned that aspect of Kachiko down several notches compared to her older portrayals.
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Dec 25, 2017 21:25
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They have toned it down a notch but cast against the context of the fanbase it still comes across as sleazy. Right now there are 3 ways it can go really, she either has genuine feelings for Hotaru and is a traitor to the clan,or she doesn't and is just trying to play Hotaru which works or it doesn't. You could play this whole thing out without the romantic relationship just fine. People would think it was really weird if Shoju and Toturi had a thing going on. It just exists because of lazy writing, 'Kachiko is a seductress, she seduces people! Hotaru is a woman? Kachiko is a seductress, she seduces people, how transgressive of us!' or a blatent attempt to appeal to those guys with thier Kachiko T&A card sleeves.
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Dec 25, 2017 21:37
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I mean, I was happy to see they were maintaining a romantic relationship between Hotaru and Kachiko because of the potential for conflict between duty and their personal feelings. But whatever, guess I'm just a perv that likes lazy writing?
Spookyelectric fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Dec 26, 2017 |
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Dec 25, 2017 23:55
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The relationship in the original was a game more than true love, her true love was always Shoju in old fiction. We already know its not going to go the same way anyway as it seems unlikely Kachiko's only child is going to be Hotaru's. Anyway, each to thier own.
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Dec 26, 2017 00:23
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The best counter to scorpion seductress women is shirtless bishi scorpion seductor men clearly. I don't think characters who use sexiness are innately always bad characters, even if they often are. It is just one trait. I hope kachiko is genuinely in a happy relationship and not just using everyone, but that's because her 'using people' thing makes her very one note seeming, which is the real issue - any character that has just one note is bad. Many old l5r characters were incredibly one note with no depth beyond one signature trait (being the sexy one, being the genius strategist, being the great dueler, being the most artsy crane, being a dragon who uses physical force over anything else, etc.) None of these are innately terrible traits. They all just can be, Though.
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Dec 26, 2017 01:07
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Agreed, 100%. I would definitely enjoy a little more character complexity than we got the first time around.
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Dec 26, 2017 01:16
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Aramoro posted:...Right now there are 3 ways it can go really, she either has genuine feelings for Hotaru and is a traitor to the clan... Still quite new to the story, but what precludes her having genuine feelings and still be loyal to the clan?
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Dec 26, 2017 03:46
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Aramoro posted:The relationship in the original was a game more than true love, her true love was always Shoju in old fiction. We already know its not going to go the same way anyway as it seems unlikely Kachiko's only child is going to be Hotaru's. Yknow with the Egg of Pan Ku floating around somewhere waiting to be adapted into new canon a new Bayushi Dairu who has two mommies isn't out of the question.
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Dec 26, 2017 18:20
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Speaking of the egg of Pan Ku, to what degree are dragons actually a thing in L5R? There's clearly plenty of mythical creatures running around, with kami spirits powering shugenja wizardry and the crab clan regularly dealing with supernatural threats, but aside from a clan being named after dragons and the aforementioned dragon egg, I'm not sure I remember anything about actual dragons being around in the world. Edit: L5R wiki says they're basically primal forces and they had their own piece of the heavens called the dragonlands. Also wasn't there a super evil dragon who was the result of CORRUPTION? Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Dec 26, 2017 |
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Dec 26, 2017 18:45
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I ran a Mantis deck in the old game that ran both the Thunder Dragon and the Shadow Dragon. Shadow Dragon was probably who you were thinking about.
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Dec 26, 2017 18:48
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Dick Burglar posted:Speaking of the egg of Pan Ku, to what degree are dragons actually a thing in L5R? There's clearly plenty of mythical creatures running around, with kami spirits powering shugenja wizardry and the crab clan regularly dealing with supernatural threats, but aside from a clan being named after dragons and the aforementioned dragon egg, I'm not sure I remember anything about actual dragons being around in the world. Yes, the Shadow Dragon was the result of the Air Dragon getting corrupted by the Shadow. Because he had to give someone a piggy back ride.
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Dec 26, 2017 18:55
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I don't know if it was laziness or brilliance but I kind of loved the Dragon champ being an actual dragon.
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Dec 26, 2017 18:58
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Satsu could transform into a dragon. Just like the champions before him. Supposedly all the kami had shapeshifting abilities corresponding to their totem animals, but I don't think this was ever really portrayed. Also take anything you read on the wiki with a grain of salt. It's often wrong. It's a good starting point if you're looking for something, though!
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Dec 26, 2017 19:56
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Spooky, I never heard of the Kami shapeshifting into animals, I know Yokuni could shapeshift into a Dragon and Fu-Leng could go Evil Dragon but I dont recall any other Kami even hinting at it. The idea of Hida becoming a Giant Crab with probably a weak spot has a certain appeal.
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Dec 26, 2017 20:08
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It always seemed to me that the actual celestial dragons spent more time posing as people than as actual dragons. Looking at the cards, and that time when Phoenix had "buy dragons for cheap" as a game mechanic, you'd think the drat things were flying all over the place.
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Dec 26, 2017 20:17
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I think Way of the Unicorn mentions that Shinjo could turn into a Ki-Rin, and Shiba is described once (can't remember where though) as turning into a Phoenix. Also Way of the Dragon says that all the Kami could turn into dragons, probably. Clearly Hida got the worst (best) deal of the bunch.
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Dec 26, 2017 20:20
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Spookyelectric posted:I think Way of the Unicorn mentions that Shinjo could turn into a Ki-Rin, and Shiba is described once (can't remember where though) as turning into a Phoenix. Also Way of the Dragon says that all the Kami could turn into dragons, probably. Not only could Shinjo turn into a ki-rin, she had kids as one. Foals? Whatever. Her children could also become ki-rin, and I think all but one of them chose to stay as ki-rin rather than humans. It has led to endless jokes about unicorns being close to their horses. Also, even if Akodo didn't actually turn into a Lion, he screamed hard enough to bring down a mountain pass on a shadowlands army.
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Dec 26, 2017 21:48
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Kachiko chat sent me to Google and I saw "Bayushi Kurumi." Is that a real card because yikes.
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Dec 26, 2017 23:07
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SuperKlaus posted:Kachiko chat sent me to Google and I saw "Bayushi Kurumi." Is that a real card because yikes. Yup. Every version you see in google is real.
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Dec 26, 2017 23:17
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jadarx posted:Yes, the Shadow Dragon was the result of the Air Dragon getting corrupted by the Shadow. Because he had to give someone a piggy back ride. Greatest hero of the Empire Shiba Aikune is not just "some guy"! Too bad he was one of the guys that pointlessly died with Hantei Naseru because the players picked wrong for Emperor.
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Dec 27, 2017 01:37
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Greatest hero of the Empire Shiba Aikune is not just "some guy"! Yeah, he wasn't just some guy--sounds more like a nobody to me. Dude sure died like a nobody.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:59
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Dick Burglar posted:Dude sure died like a nobody.  The death of Naseru is still a sore spot for me, even years later. What a stupid waste.
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Dec 27, 2017 04:07
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SuperKlaus posted:Kachiko chat sent me to Google and I saw "Bayushi Kurumi." Is that a real card because yikes. Steve Argyle has stopped selling the worst of the T&A artwork that hes done but luckily he'll still print the playmats if you know the one you want as someone is advertising on the Facebook group. Semi naked women on playmats coming to a tournament near you soon if you're lucky.
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Dec 27, 2017 13:37
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Shiba turning into a phoenix seems kinda ofd when he didn't know what totem his can should have until he had a vision of one. But this is L5R I guess.
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Dec 27, 2017 21:44
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What's a good splash for Scorpions now that the Imperial Cycle is done? Crab seems like a very clear winner (I like Pathfinder's Blade with Hiruma Ambusher and Watch Commander) but I wonder if y'all got insights into neat tricks with other splashes I've overlooked.
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Jan 5, 2018 22:11
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SuperKlaus posted:What's a good splash for Scorpions now that the Imperial Cycle is done? Crab seems like a very clear winner (I like Pathfinder's Blade with Hiruma Ambusher and Watch Commander) but I wonder if y'all got insights into neat tricks with other splashes I've overlooked. Crab is definitely the most popular, but I like also like Phoenix for going for the dishonor win.
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Jan 5, 2018 22:17
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