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Yeah and hey why did they have to blow up the Death Star and Star Killer? Why didn’t they just capture it and blow up the Sith/Empire planets and ships? God they suck af tactics. Yoda should be force haunting Snoke in his sleep so he can’t get good nights rest and then keeps making bad decisions.
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Dec 26, 2017 20:02
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Mullitt posted:This doesn't undermine anything. This wasn't an ideological kamikaze attack, it's a desperate move by a character who's watching everyone she knows get blown up. Wasnt her whole character based on "doing heroric flashy things because your desperate is foolish" though?
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Dec 26, 2017 20:03
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Dre2Dee2 posted:Wasnt her whole character based on "doing heroric flashy things because your desperate is foolish" though? No. Her character was don’t do stupid poo poo unnecessarily that gets everyone killed for no reason and show no remorse or understanding for deaths of comrades. There was no reason for Poe to have gone through with it, one Dreadnaught is nothing compared to what they lost and Snokes ship was just as or more powerful.The idea was the rebels could escape undetected but I think if I recall Benecio sold them out to live.
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Dec 26, 2017 20:09
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:She realised the evil of her bourgie upbringing and devoted herself to antifascist action to atone. She's not super bright so she leaves ideological factionism to more important characters. She's a bit of a tankie but she did good in the end so could be worse Let's briefly look at the costuming of the resistance in TLJ. Leia and Amilyn (lol) Holdo wear gorgeous and impractical dresses. The bridge crew wear military uniforms, the pilots wear flight suits and the flight crew wear jumpsuits. Except for Leia, Amilyn and her mousy subordinate, all these clothes look worn, even ragged. Recall Amilyn is an old friend of Leia, a literal princess. She clearly comes from great status and wealth and holds onto that despite fighting a rather desperate war. Therefore I posit that there is nothing about Amilyn suggesting a rejection of her upbringing. In fact, it seems more likely the opposite, that the Fo (who are not fascists but nondescript bad guys) threatens her privilege.
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Dec 26, 2017 20:10
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quote:Yeah and hey why did they have to blow up the Death Star and Star Killer? Why didn’t they just capture it and blow up the Sith/Empire planets and ships? God they suck af tactics. It only requires the thinnest tissue of justification to explain why they don't, which those movies provide and TLJ fails to.
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Dec 26, 2017 20:10
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Everyone points to the Fo's use of Starkiller base as some great evil but I'm not so sure. Alderaan in terms of plot was a 'peaceful planet' destroyed to send a political message of fear. In terms of narrative it represented a transformation of perspective, the heroes go looking for this fairy tale land and instead find the death star. In terms of plot, the Hosnian system was a military target. Hux ordered its destruction specifically to destroy the resistance fleet. It's like the bombing of Dresden and nothing like the Holocaust (for people bandying around accusations of genocide). In terms of narrative it represents the far reaching hand of the Fo, in other words their popular support. Only like 20 people in the galaxy care about the resistance. Sinding Johansson fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Dec 26, 2017 |
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Dec 26, 2017 20:17
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Basebf555 posted:I do wonder if introducing the hyperspace ramming tactic was a mistake long term, because it's gonna be tough to write a desperate space battle scene now without people going "hey why don't they just take one of their fighters and just hyperspeed ram that big ship?" You know drat well the first scene of episode 9 will be the FO new technology that prevents that tactic.
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Dec 26, 2017 20:27
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Waffles Inc. posted:Nah, they would have been blown to bits by the guns of the ship he destroyed approximately 2 seconds after they were tracked through lightspeed Eh, debatable. Firstly it’s not clear that the dreadnought could have fired with lethal force from that range while also keeping up in the chase. Second, if it could... they’d have still had a full size bomber wing with which to take it down.
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Dec 26, 2017 20:35
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CelticPredator posted:This only applies to complete idiots. Once a concept is introduced in a setting, like moving things with your mind,, it’d be very strange if it was never mentioned again, and if the protagonists are in a position when using this new idea makes sense but they don’t, you will naturally ask why not. Unless you’re a complete idiot.
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Dec 26, 2017 20:36
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Neither hyperspace nor using spaceships as weapons is a new concept, though; the pieces were there, Johnson was just the first to put them together. No one else had done the hyperspace kamikaze in universe probably for the same reason no one did it out of universe - they hadn't thought of it. Also pretty much every situation people have suggested using it in has been accomplished just as well without it; asking why everything isn't solved with a hyperspace kamikaze is like asking why every military problem in our world isn't solved with nuclear weapons.
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Dec 26, 2017 20:44
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Lord Hydronium posted:Also pretty much every situation people have suggested using it in has been accomplished just as well without it; asking why everything isn't solved with a hyperspace kamikaze is like asking why every military problem in our world isn't solved with nuclear weapons. 
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Dec 26, 2017 20:46
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Rian coming up with something cool that each previous director should've come up with does not a bad film make. I haven't heard any argument against it that doesn't involve previous films or hypocritical future films.
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Dec 26, 2017 20:48
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Chickenwalker posted:Rogue One was what you could call a flawed film with redeemable qualities. The space battle and Vader opening up the playbook on Rebel troopers was worth the price of admission alone. I was as cheering for this post until you misspelled tenets.
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Dec 26, 2017 20:48
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I think it’s pretty rare that your doomed-anyway, staffed-by-one-person-exactly capital ship is just sitting within point blank range of the enemy capital ship and not being fired upon while it charges its hyperdrive. We know that lightspeed kamikazes by smaller ships are not really effective from that scene at the end of Rogue One with the destroyers jumping in. So you probably need a lot of mass and close initial distance to do really dramatic damage and if you can safely reach and sit in that range under normal circumstances you’re probably winning a conventional battle and should just sit tight and keep firing your lasers.
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Dec 26, 2017 20:51
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Steve2911 posted:I haven't heard any argument against it that doesn't involve previous films This is what gets me. Literally every negative YouTuber review I've heard contains some version of "this movie killed Star Wars", and they seem to all miss that that was intentional
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Dec 26, 2017 21:02
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“Why didn’t they just...” is always followed by some dumb story ending bullshit that renders the idea of storytelling meaningless and just boils movies down to tactical documentaries.
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Dec 26, 2017 21:04
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precision posted:This is what gets me. Literally every negative YouTuber review I've heard contains some version of "this movie killed Star Wars", and they seem to all miss that that was intentional Lots of people I've seen are either praising the movie for being different or criticising it for being too different but I think Something Awful is the only place so far I've seen where people are criticising it for actually not being different at all. I don't know what to make of it. Surely they can't all be right. 
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Dec 26, 2017 21:09
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Wheat Loaf posted:Lots of people I've seen are either praising the movie for being different or criticising it for being too different but I think Something Awful is the only place so far I've seen where people are criticising it for actually not being different at all. I don't know what to make of it. Surely they can't all be right. They are both wrong, but the YouTubers are wronger.
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Dec 26, 2017 21:18
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Honestly, the only thing that can probably ever truly "kill" Star Wars is oversaturatuon. One entry in a nine movie series is not going to be enough. The public reaction to TLJ combined with the general sense of apathy for Solo is probably going to do more to adjust any plans for a franchise than the content of TLJ itself. And honestly, I for one welcome the boldness of TLJ. I don't agree with everything done in it, but it has me curious to see the follow up. And even though it's going to be an Abrams joint, at least it ain't gonna be Colin Treverrow.
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Dec 26, 2017 21:25
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Sinding Johansson posted:It's like the bombing of Dresden and nothing like the Holocaust (for people bandying around accusations of genocide). In terms of narrative it represents the far reaching hand of the Fo, in other words their popular support. Only like 20 people in the galaxy care about the resistance. The bombing of Dresden was a crime against humanity though?
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Dec 26, 2017 21:26
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:Holdo's a leftist, not a liberal. The liberals are the ones who refused to answer the distress call because it would be uncouth and taking the low road and/or the war profiteers The ones that refused to answer the distress calls are EVERYONE in the galaxy, not just liberals. Fart City posted:Honestly, the only thing that can probably ever truly "kill" Star Wars is oversaturatuon. One entry in a nine movie series is not going to be enough. The public reaction to TLJ combined with the general sense of apathy for Solo is probably going to do more to adjust any plans for a franchise than the content of TLJ itself. And honestly, I for one welcome the boldness of TLJ. I don't agree with everything done in it, but it has me curious to see the follow up. And even though it's going to be an Abrams joint, at least it ain't gonna be Colin Treverrow. I wonder how this will change Disney's plans. I bet they were thinking they had another Marvel type situation where they could pump out 3 movies a year. I hope the followup doesn't play it more safe. I still don't understand why the next spinoff is Solo instead of Obi-Wan or something with characters we don't know. Spacebump fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Dec 26, 2017 |
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Dec 26, 2017 21:30
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:It is worse than that - it's a corporate message.
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Dec 26, 2017 21:30
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Gatts posted:No. Her character was don’t do stupid poo poo unnecessarily that gets everyone killed for no reason and show no remorse or understanding for deaths of comrades. There was no reason for Poe to have gone through with it, one Dreadnaught is nothing compared to what they lost and Snokes ship was just as or more powerful.The idea was the rebels could escape undetected but I think if I recall Benecio sold them out to live. One unnecessary thing is to keep your plans for survival so secret that a sizeable portion of your crew believes you don't have a plan, and comes up with one of their own that results in mutiny
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Dec 26, 2017 21:31
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Leia said what the plan was. Out loud. Holdo just didn’t like Poe getting in her face acting like a jackass. But she saw how far he’d go to protect the ship and thought he was alright in the end. If not a bit hot headed. She didn’t know how bad he hosed up with DJ though.
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Dec 26, 2017 21:33
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People confusing insightful analysis with ramming everything into mindless political categories ITT
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Dec 26, 2017 21:39
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just another posted:What does that even mean? The movie is basically about how people relate to Star Wars the franchise, for example when Luke Skywalker talks about himself as a fictional character. A disillusioned character talk about how terrible and insubstantial the pre-Disney movies are, while the hopeful admirer counters that they should go back to them. The idea of religion giving you power to move rocks is dismissed as shallow and stupid, but it turns out that using religion to move rocks is cool and good. The villain wants to get rid of all the stupid bullshit in the Star Wars franchise like the Jedi. When everyone keeps talking about how they're the spark that will set the fire of rebellion, it means that they will give birth to a more perfect fandom, symbolized by young new Star Wars fans playing with merchandise. Rose is in awe when she gets to meet Resistance hero Finn. When she says that she loves Finn, she means that she's a fan. She doesn't love child slaves, which is why they're left behind. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Dec 26, 2017 |
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Dec 26, 2017 21:44
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CelticPredator posted:“Why didn’t they just...” is always followed by some dumb story ending bullshit that renders the idea of storytelling meaningless and just boils movies down to tactical documentaries. It's the conflict between the movie telling a story, and some fans trying to define a reality. Those two are never gonna fit comfortably.
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Dec 26, 2017 21:43
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Spacebump posted:I wonder how this will change Disney's plans. I bet they were thinking they had another Marvel type situation where they could pump out 3 movies a year. I hope the followup doesn't play it more safe. Do you suppose that was the plan? Ramping up to multiple Star Wars movies a year? I imagine there already have been (and when Solo disappoints as it's on course to do, there certainly will be) thinkpieces about how one movie annually is oversaturation.
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Dec 26, 2017 21:44
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just another posted:People confusing insightful analysis with ramming everything into mindless political categories ITT We’re just intoxicated by the discovery of this hyper-effective ramming technique.
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Dec 26, 2017 21:44
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Sinding Johansson posted:Everyone points to the Fo's use of Starkiller base as some great evil but I'm not so sure. Alderaan in terms of plot was a 'peaceful planet' destroyed to send a political message of fear. In terms of narrative it represented a transformation of perspective, the heroes go looking for this fairy tale land and instead find the death star. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOCYcgOnWUM
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Dec 26, 2017 21:45
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Wheat Loaf posted:Lots of people I've seen are either praising the movie for being different or criticising it for being too different but I think Something Awful is the only place so far I've seen where people are criticising it for actually not being different at all. I don't know what to make of it. Surely they can't all be right. TLJ is sort of the epitome of that - even its themes are explicitly about destroying the past vs. learning from it and improving on it. So I think a lot of the people that like it and hate it are latching onto whichever part they feel most strongly about. If you want Star Wars to change as little as possible, it's too different. If you want Star Wars to change a lot (or if you dislike Star Wars), you either like TLJ because it's the most explicit about that, or you hate it because despite the things it changes, it's still Star Wars and is still going to go with a lot of the same beats. I feel kind of out of place reading all that stuff from both directions because I like that weird balance, and think TLJ does a great job reaffirming a lot of the things I love about the saga while also taking it in interesting new directions. Compare to TFA, which I think leans way too hard on the conservative side and doesn't really add much new to the picture. Lord Hydronium fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Dec 26, 2017 |
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Dec 26, 2017 21:46
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Wheat Loaf posted:Do you suppose that was the plan? Ramping up to multiple Star Wars movies a year? I imagine there already have been (and when Solo disappoints as it's on course to do, there certainly will be) thinkpieces about how one movie annually is oversaturation. Marvel kind of proves more than one movie annually isn't over saturation. I can't imagine Disney had any other plan than to make as much money off of as many Star Wars movies as possible. They are doing better than WB/DC is with their movie universe but they just don't have it down yet. Maybe if they had Lucas in charge of the universe like Feige is with Marvel they could nail it. I think they are clearly trying to ramp up Star Wars output with the announced Rain trilogy. Those films, 9, Solo, and unnamed spinoff have them putting out 6 more movies in a short amount of time for the franchise. Solo disappointing shouldn't be looked to as over saturation. That movie has big problems, imagine how much worse it would do if it wasn't attached to one of the biggest franchises in film. Star Wars is a franchise where fans regularly try to tell others multiple long children's tv shows are worth watching. This excitement can be translated to film, it just has to be done right. Making a successful film universe appears to be more difficult than most studios realized, hence only the Marvel Universe really working well. (to a lesser extent the X-Men franchise but that universe was also going to include the new Fantastic Four until it bombed and everyone pretended they didn't have the casts pushing #AUniverseUnited on all their social media accounts.) Spacebump fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Dec 26, 2017 |
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Dec 26, 2017 21:50
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The movie is basically about how people relate to Star Wars the franchise, for example when Luke Skywalker talks about himself as a fictional character.
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Dec 26, 2017 21:59
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Spacebump posted:Solo disappointing shouldn't be looked to as over saturation. That movie has big problems, imagine how much worse it would do if it wasn't attached to one of the biggest franchises in film. I'm not sure. To the best of my knowledge, no Star Wars movie, whatever flaws they may have, has ever been looked upon as a "failure" (I've made my views on how TLJ will manage commercially clear here and elsewhere but that remains to be seen; it's been out for, what, three weeks?) so I must assume that potentially having a "failure" could diminish the brand. quote:Making a successful film universe appears to be more difficult than most studios realized, hence only the Marvel Universe really working well. (to a lesser extent the X-Men franchise but that universe was also going to include the new Fantastic Four until it bombed and everyone pretended they didn't have the casts pushing #AUniverseUnited on all their social media accounts.) Sure. I think the only one that's sort of worked is that Godzilla v Kong: Dawn of Amerikaiju one.
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Dec 26, 2017 22:01
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just another posted:This doesn't answer my question. You're reaching. He's right though. Movie still sucks. They should of just gone with The New Republic being cool and powerful and Luke & Co facing off against a big bad that's mad his dad got killed by Luke Skywalker during the destruction of the Death Star or something. Maybe shoehorn Plagues in there at the end.
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Dec 26, 2017 22:02
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just another posted:This doesn't answer my question. You're reaching. I answered your question why it was a corporate message. What Rose loves is the franchise, so she saves part of it. It's a message to love Star WarsTM.
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Dec 26, 2017 22:07
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Ferrinus posted:Eh, debatable. Firstly it’s not clear that the dreadnought could have fired with lethal force from that range while also keeping up in the chase. Second, if it could... they’d have still had a full size bomber wing with which to take it down. It had the range to shoot from space to the planet powerfully enough to leave a mushroom cloud visible in space And if the FO fighters were too far out of range to be supported, why would the rebel ones be any different?
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Dec 26, 2017 22:12
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I answered your question why it was a corporate message. What Rose loves is the franchise, so she saves part of it. It's a message to love Star WarsTM. I love how the whole thing is essentially, “the Rebels need to market themselves better!” and now Luke is their new spokesman
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Dec 26, 2017 22:13
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You know if they had placed some blurb at the beginning of this film about how the rebels ship was the fasted ship in the galaxy and had some super powerful secret engine this could of all been averted...alack and alas
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Dec 26, 2017 22:18
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I answered your question why it was a corporate message. What Rose loves is the franchise, so she saves part of it. It's a message to love Star WarsTM.
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Dec 26, 2017 22:23
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