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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I answered your question why it was a corporate message. What Rose loves is the franchise, so she saves part of it. It's a message to love Star WarsTM. Rose may be a corporatist herself, and it may be a de facto endorsement of the already existing franchise, but there is nothing inherently "corporate" (ie. pro-capitalist) about that message. Or centrist, for that matter. It's an apolitical bromide.
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Dec 26, 2017 23:32
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Ferrinus posted:Eh, debatable. Firstly it’s not clear that the dreadnought could have fired with lethal force from that range while also keeping up in the chase. Second, if it could... they’d have still had a full size bomber wing with which to take it down. The FO would've just eviscerated the bombers based on how many got through when the Resistance had a tangible, major advantage.
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Dec 26, 2017 23:39
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Ferrinus posted:I think it’s pretty rare that your doomed-anyway, staffed-by-one-person-exactly capital ship is just sitting within point blank range of the enemy capital ship and not being fired upon while it charges its hyperdrive. Of course Rogue One retcons this but you can pick plenty of problems in its explanation too.
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Dec 26, 2017 23:50
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My wife and I saw TLJ again today and the whole cloaking thing is handled very weirdly. The first mention of cloaking comes from Del Toro when he’s clicking away on a keypad entering Snoke’s ship, he says “now we’ll be off their scopes”, then when the rebel transports are taking off you hear someone say almost the exact same line as BDT. Then when Poe wakes up, what Leia explains isn’t anything to do with a cloaking device, it’s “they’re not monitoring for small ships”. Furthermore, what Del Toro overhears Poe say isn’t anything to do with a cloak, it’s that the rebels are loading transports. Period. So the info BDT gave to the empire is that the rebels were launching transports, and that’s it. As far as Leia explains to Poe, Holdo’s plan was...I guess the recognition that the empire wasn’t on the lookout for transport vessels? Which is extraordinarily odd because the same transports appear on the little computer screens on Hux’s ship every time we see one of the rebel ships lose their fuel and die. They’re also clearly visible out in space from the bridge. Like, in the shots. It’s...odd. Also watching ANH right now and when Vader launches the fighters during the Death Star attack, red leader says, “fighters incoming” followed by Luke being all, “they’re not appearing on our scopes!” And then red leader telling everyone to “pick up your visual scanning”. So I suppose TIE fighters...naturally cloak? On the whole I was wrong earlier in the thread about all the cloaking stuff, but after seeing it again it’s even more confusing
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Dec 26, 2017 23:55
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Waffles Inc. posted:It’s...odd. Also watching ANH right now and when Vader launches the fighters during the Death Star attack, red leader says, “fighters incoming” followed by Luke being all, “they’re not appearing on our scopes!” And then red leader telling everyone to “pick up your visual scanning”. So I suppose TIE fighters...naturally cloak? The nature and power of sensor technology in the Star Wars franchise has always been weird and insane. Imperial capital ships, per Episode V, apparently lack the ability to detect that another ship has attached itself to the ship's superstructure.
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Dec 26, 2017 23:58
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The movie is basically about how people relate to Star Wars the franchise, for example when Luke Skywalker talks about himself as a fictional character. just another fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 26, 2017 23:59
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HannibalBarca posted:The nature and power of sensor technology in the Star Wars franchise has always been weird and insane. Imperial capital ships, per Episode V, apparently lack the ability to detect that another ship has attached itself to the ship's superstructure. Even as late as the FO there’s a person on the bridge looking through a submarine periscope, too. Also once Vader launches his fighters during the Death Star battle the laser turrets stop firing until Luke’s trench run, its even commented upon. I love how shipboard batteries are all manually fired and apparently have a hard enough time distinguishing targets that when Vader is out they don’t even take the chance to fire
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Dec 27, 2017 00:02
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Bruceski posted:It's the conflict between the movie telling a story, and some fans trying to define a reality. Those two are never gonna fit comfortably. If the context and narrative are coherent, fans won’t try to “define the reality” because it will have been defined for them in-universe. But coherent context and narrative are both lacking in this film.
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Dec 27, 2017 00:31
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How come it made perfect sense to me
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Dec 27, 2017 00:32
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Did anyone not do a spit-take when they saw Leia's corpse in space use the force to pull herself back, because I was laughing my rear end off in disbelief THAT WAS AWFUL, CMON GUYS. poo poo, let Poe or Finn do something, give em 2 minutes to shine with a daring rescue
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Dec 27, 2017 00:37
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Dre2Dee2 posted:Did anyone not do a spit-take when they saw Leia's corpse in space use the force to pull herself back, because I was laughing my rear end off in disbelief That was actually one of the moments I though fit most with the OT.
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Dec 27, 2017 00:40
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Dre2Dee2 posted:Did anyone not do a spit-take when they saw Leia's corpse in space use the force to pull herself back, because I was laughing my rear end off in disbelief It was cool I think OP Although because of poor Carrie Fisher I wish they’d killed Leia in this movie so the next one doesn’t have to start with a funeral or something
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Dec 27, 2017 00:41
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Waffles Inc. posted:It had the range to shoot from space to the planet powerfully enough to leave a mushroom cloud visible in space Yeah, but it was standing still then. Also, it's in keeping with the rest of the movies that rebel fighters are more capable of independent operation - TIEs don't have hyperdrives, require the pilot to wear a helmet because they lack internal life support, etc.
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Dec 27, 2017 00:53
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Waffles Inc. posted:It was cool I think OP I hope they cover her death in the title crawl of IX. "Leia died on the way home to her home planet."
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Dec 27, 2017 00:56
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Dre2Dee2 posted:I hope they cover her death in the title crawl of IX. "Leia died on the way home to her home planet." Her home planet doesn't exist anymore. 
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Dec 27, 2017 00:58
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Chucat posted:The FO would've just eviscerated the bombers based on how many got through when the Resistance had a tangible, major advantage. They didn't have a tangible, major advantage at any point in the movie. The opening scene was them getting caught as they attempted to evacuate and flee.
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Dec 27, 2017 01:02
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Ferrinus posted:Yeah, but it was standing still then. Also, it's in keeping with the rest of the movies that rebel fighters are more capable of independent operation - TIEs don't have hyperdrives, require the pilot to wear a helmet because they lack internal life support, etc. Kylo’s seemed fine and he had to turn back too. His seemed as advanced as the rebel ships. Sure seems like if the bombers got torn to shreds by a squad of ties launched from just the dreadnaught itself that Kylo, the dreadnaught ties and those of the other star destroyers would be more than enough. Who knows tho Ferrinus posted:They didn't have a tangible, major advantage at any point in the movie. The opening scene was them getting caught as they attempted to evacuate and flee. The entire reason for Poe’s crank call is to buy time, time that he uses to charge up his engines in order to blitz the towers that would have blown the bombers away. That’s a huge advantage Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 01:02
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Waffles Inc. posted:Kylo’s seemed fine and he had to turn back too. His seemed as advanced as the rebel ships. No one ever crosses the galaxy on their personal TIE. I think the imperial fighters are all tethered to support platforms as a matter of course. I guess it's possible that Luke's was an old model X-wing and the new ones have TIE-esque range restrictions as a cost-saving measure but there's not much reason to draw that conclusion. quote:The entire reason for Poe’s crank call is to buy time, time that he uses to charge up his engines in order to blitz the towers that would have blown the bombers away. That’s a huge advantage Yeah, but one that would've been preserved across hyperjumps. Poe had already blitzed most of the deck post-prank call when he was ordered to retreat.
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Dec 27, 2017 01:13
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Am I the only one who was amused that Force Yoda was a puppet instead of the CG type Yoda from the prequels?
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Dec 27, 2017 01:20
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Ferrinus posted:
Totally fair point
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Dec 27, 2017 01:21
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ROCK THE HOUSE M.D. posted:Her home planet doesn't exist anymore. I know, it would be awesome to see that kind of blatant slip-up haha Also I got sad when they called up Maz on the space phone about a code cracker after 10 minutes of walking around, and she's with a rocket pack fighting some dudes and all I could think was "wow, that looks way more exciting than the movie im watching right now"
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Dec 27, 2017 01:23
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ROCK THE HOUSE M.D. posted:Her home planet doesn't exist anymore.
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Dec 27, 2017 01:27
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or they could toss her in a trash compacter
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Dec 27, 2017 01:29
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Dre2Dee2 posted:I know, it would be awesome to see that kind of blatant slip-up haha I like your idea of covering it in the crawl though, we don't need a funeral scene or CGI Leia to begin the movie.
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Dec 27, 2017 01:30
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Ferrinus posted:Yeah, but one that would've been preserved across hyperjumps. Poe had already blitzed most of the deck post-prank call when he was ordered to retreat. The fighters were also late in scrambling iirc, so the bombers had more time to get there, whereas if they tried to bomb the dreadnought after the hyperspace jump/pursuit, the FO probably would've realized their ship lacked close range support and just deployed fighters around it or something. The bombers just seemed like absolute garbage though so I dunno.
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Dec 27, 2017 01:32
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Gatts posted:Am I the only one who was amused that Force Yoda was a puppet instead of the CG type Yoda from the prequels? Although he looked good in the prequels (and I think changing him from a puppet to CG in the Phantom Menace blu-ray was a good idea), I feel like CG Yoda would've looked out of place if he'd been used.
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Dec 27, 2017 01:36
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What exactly is the resistance's goal? I assumed their best case was to depose Snoke and somehow seize control of the First Order. You know, like how revolutions do? So Rey managed to convince Kylo Ren into rejoining the good side and they brought down Snoke. What the hell did she WANT to happen? Did she just want to run out, blasters blazing, steal a ship then do it again next week once they've organized a new emperor? Like, how is it turning evil for Kylo Ren to recognize the power vacuum they just created and take advantage of his legitimacy to rule? What better possible arrangement could Rey have for restoring the Jedi Order than being handed the right hand position to the rightful emperor, who has already proven his sympathy to her?
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Dec 27, 2017 01:46
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Chucat posted:The fighters were also late in scrambling iirc, so the bombers had more time to get there, whereas if they tried to bomb the dreadnought after the hyperspace jump/pursuit, the FO probably would've realized their ship lacked close range support and just deployed fighters around it or something. The FO launched fighters at Poe when he was still flying around being an rear end in a top hat, I think, not after the bombers turned up. Now, on the balance, it was PROBABLY better to kill the dreadnaught before rather than after the jump, but it's not actually clear cut and it's not like anybody on the Resistance's side knew they'd be getting followed through hyperspace at all.
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Dec 27, 2017 01:50
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Someone please overdub Poe flying at the Dreadnought with "LEEROOOY JENNNKINS" tia
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Dec 27, 2017 01:54
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MixMastaTJ posted:What exactly is the resistance's goal? I assumed their best case was to depose Snoke and somehow seize control of the First Order. You know, like how revolutions do? So Rey managed to convince Kylo Ren into rejoining the good side and they brought down Snoke. kylo explicitly says he wants to destroy the institutions of the past--including the jedi--so uh, no i don't agree that rey could've more easily restored the jedi order by joining him
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Dec 27, 2017 01:54
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I'm reminded of the Dark Empire comics, in which Luke joins the Emperor's clone as his new apprentice with the intention of bringing him down from within, but realises that the dark side will always corrupt you, even when you get into it with the best intentions (which was what happened in the prequels a decade after these comics were published - there's a possibly apocryphal story that Lucas said they were his favourite EU stories; I don't know if that's true or not but they're pretty close to what I imagine a Lucas sequel trilogy would have looked like if he'd done it in the early 90s).
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Dec 27, 2017 02:02
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Brother Entropy posted:kylo explicitly says he wants to destroy the institutions of the past--including the jedi--so uh, no i don't agree that rey could've more easily restored the jedi order by joining him Isn't that also what both her and Luke concluded? That the restoration of the Jedi Order meant letting go of past institutions? Rey left the island after looking into the dark side and finding out her fear was pointless. Luke decided to burn the original Jedi texts so that the order could never be rebuilt. I get that Kylo was dramatic but it still seems like Rey's best option was to try working with Kylo. Otherwise, why even show up?
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Dec 27, 2017 02:05
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You wanna really subvert my expectations? I would never in a million years bet Disney would have the guts to have Hux poison Kylo Ren, while Rey is sentenced to space jail for manslaughter because of accidental force boulder dropping. Carrie Fisher's daughter, whats-her-name, leads the 6 rebels who are left against Hux's First Order. They meet eye to eye, and fall in love. Kid Fisher betrayed the 2 rebels left, and they create a new galactic Empire that provides universal healthcare for all. They have a child who is half boy, half girl, half dark, half light. End scene.... or IS IT? Find out in Episode X: I WAS MY OWN WORST ENEMY
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Dec 27, 2017 02:07
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MixMastaTJ posted:What exactly is the resistance's goal? I assumed their best case was to depose Snoke and somehow seize control of the First Order. You know, like how revolutions do? So Rey managed to convince Kylo Ren into rejoining the good side and they brought down Snoke. The Resistance wasn't a revolution; up until part way through TFA they were a paramilitary organisation loosely associated with the legitimate government of the galaxy (the Republic). After that they were just trying to not die.
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Dec 27, 2017 02:07
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Ferrinus posted:The FO launched fighters at Poe when he was still flying around being an rear end in a top hat, I think, not after the bombers turned up. she just kinda forgot until it gave her the chance to go to a casino
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Dec 27, 2017 02:10
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I'm willing to bet any money the disney committee will double down on OT material for episode IX after all the "backlash" TLJ has gotten.
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Dec 27, 2017 02:15
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Episode IX: Return of the Profitsss
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Dec 27, 2017 02:20
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if ep ix starts with a loathsome alien gangster who has kidnapped one of the leads prepare for the lamest movie of your life
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Dec 27, 2017 02:23
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Episode IX: The Legend of Luke's Ghost His ghost pulls up his old X-wing and he rides with R2 as he shoots a proton torpedo in the Super Planet Battering Ram Star Killer II
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Dec 27, 2017 02:23
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Kevin Palpatine posted:if ep ix starts with a loathsome alien gangster who has kidnapped one of the leads prepare for the lamest movie of your life As if Disney would bother to make a major character an alien
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Dec 27, 2017 02:24
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