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Phobic Nest posted:When their behavior is always the same, does the difference really matter? It actually does matter because if Republicans were sane and cynical they'd know the truism that a good parasite doesn't kill the host. Instead they're insane and believe that if they just kill the host they can have it all!
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Dec 27, 2017 02:12
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Phobic Nest posted:When their behavior is always the same, does the difference really matter? You answered your own question: the difference matters because, unlike a job, most people can't just pack up and leave the country. We have to clean up the mess we have gotten ourselves into, and the only way to do that is to thoroughly understand its different aspects, including the motivations, worldviews and thought processes of prominent GOP politicians. Simple explanations like "oh, you know, they are just psychopaths" get in the way of this: like soundbites, they are easy to buy into, but conceal deeper truths.
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Dec 27, 2017 02:15
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Trabisnikof posted:It actually does matter because if Republicans were sane and cynical they'd know the truism that a good parasite doesn't kill the host. Instead they're insane and believe that if they just kill the host they can have it all! agreed. but i think alot of them are trying to push through as much awful poo poo as they can because i think they realize a blue wave will hit soon and trump isn't reliable.
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Dec 27, 2017 02:16
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https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/945815162505908224
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Dec 27, 2017 02:25
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I mean it’s true the nazi party kinda absorbed the entire existing beaurocracy. That said: gently caress em
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Dec 27, 2017 02:27
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Trabisnikof posted:There already is a state and local elections thread. The only one I’ve seen is for this year’s special elections. Will double check though
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Dec 27, 2017 02:37
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah. most of the republicans i know(least the small buesness/fiscal Rockefeller type ones hate his guts now. they also hate the tax bill. Oh yeah he's also pissed about the tax bill giving deepthroat to the multinational corporations that have been the bane of his existence as a small business owner.
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Dec 27, 2017 02:40
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enraged_camel posted:You answered your own question: the difference matters because, unlike a job, most people can't just pack up and leave the country. We have to clean up the mess we have gotten ourselves into, and the only way to do that is to thoroughly understand its different aspects, including the motivations, worldviews and thought processes of prominent GOP politicians. Simple explanations like "oh, you know, they are just psychopaths" get in the way of this: like soundbites, they are easy to buy into, but conceal deeper truths. I don't see much usefulness in psychoanalyzing politicians. Figuring out what makes voters tick and how to motivate seems a bit more effective to me, only going by recent news. But even then, getting more liberal people to vote seems far more important than trying to change the minds of conservatives. I come from a large family of Catholics who run the gamut from disappointed Republican to full-on conspiracy nutter but I know it's folly to ever convince them to vote for someone with a candidate with a D after their name.
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Dec 27, 2017 02:40
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 “Colonizing Mars is actually easy with Randian superman Elon in charge!” Is this written to a seventh grade level because only children are likely to believe it?
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Dec 27, 2017 03:01
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PPJ you do great work in this thread, but this posting of some no-mark extremely online teenager's awful no-good bad opinions does nothing for anyone
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Dec 27, 2017 03:06
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It has to do with the government and twitter... Library Of Congress Will No Longer Archive Every Tweet Not the president's every tweet, all of the tweets since 2010. Why. Why would you do that? What possible microscopic fragment of constructive/positive anything could this ever achieve? What. ow that hurt thinking about
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Dec 27, 2017 03:06
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KickerOfMice posted:It has to do with the government and twitter... why do you think
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Dec 27, 2017 03:08
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I kind of understand where Trump was coming from on the Andrew Jackson tweet considering how Jackson responded to the Nullification Crisis.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:08
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enraged_camel posted:why do you think They could have done it earlier.  e- But seriously, once it became... what it is now, this method of communication is as much worth recording as.... I can't think of anything less deserving to be preserved there right now. KickerOfMice fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 03:10
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What’s the counter to the erasing history argument when it comes to confederate statues and the renaming of schools and such? That’s the argument my parents are stuck on. Even my normally super liberal mom.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:11
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Arrgytehpirate posted:What’s the counter to the erasing history argument when it comes to confederate statues and the renaming of schools and such? Simple answer: taking down a statue of a confederate does not remove that confederate from the historical record. It also doesn’t remove the fact that said confederate had a statue from the historical record. Source: I am a [sometimes] paid historian.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:15
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Arrgytehpirate posted:What’s the counter to the erasing history argument when it comes to confederate statues and the renaming of schools and such? Statues and namesakes are for glorification, not memorization. You won't see any statues of Hitler or swastika artwork. If you want to preserve the statues, stick them in appropriate museums, not out in public. Secondly, most of those statues were made decades after the fact by people specifically trying to glorify the confederacy.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:15
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Arrgytehpirate posted:What’s the counter to the erasing history argument when it comes to confederate statues and the renaming of schools and such? History belongs in museums. Monuments and naming schools are about honoring and celebrating people. Move the statues to museums with explanations of who they are and what they did and not only isn't history "being erased" but its being given proper context. Its really a dumb argument. No offense to your parents. It sounds deep but really, the notion that we're "erasing" history by doing things like educating people on what the "Rebel Flag" actually is and why it started getting raised in the first place is kind of the opposite of "erasing history." STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 03:16
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STAC Goat posted:History belongs in museums. Monuments and naming schools are about honoring and celebrating people. Move the statues to museums with explanations of who they are and what they did and not only isn't history "being erased" but its being given proper context. The follow up to this is usually some comment defending the Confederacy as an attempt to protect states rights, which is also bullshit.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:19
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Arrgytehpirate posted:What’s the counter to the erasing history argument when it comes to confederate statues and the renaming of schools and such? there's about a million better ways to learn about US history than staring at statues. statues, namesakes, etc. serve to glorify historical figures so the consideration should be whether we want to glorify them or read about them in context of all the atrocious poo poo they did.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:20
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Arrgytehpirate posted:What’s the counter to the erasing history argument when it comes to confederate statues and the renaming of schools and such? History is in books, documentaries, and oral histories, not statues. Statues exist to memorialize or celebrate. Germany isn't full of Hitler statues or Goebbels Elementaries, and I'll guarantee you everyone there knows their WW2 history better than Americans.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:20
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There Bias Two posted:The follow up to this is usually some comment defending the Confederacy as an attempt to protect states rights, which is also bullshit. Well yeah but that's an entirely different argument and really if you're having that one then you're arguing with a racist (or someone so poorly educated and stubborn about it that they've managed to remain ignorant this long) and you're probably not going to get anywhere. The "erasing history" argument seems to try to appeal to a different angle and its nonsense since properly identifying names and statues for the ACTUAL historic figures they were and the things they did and stand for is basically what this is about. This reminds me that I saw Fox News airing an "Andrew Jackson: Hero Under Fire" special on Christmas Eve but didn't think to record it.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:23
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Keep the Confederate statues, but mount a plaque on all of them explaining that the Confederacy was fighting first and foremost to preserve chattel slavery, preferably with a quote from the cause of secession from the state the statue is in. Surely we can improve these historical monuments by adding more history to them, right?
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Dec 27, 2017 03:23
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i am the bird posted:Simple answer: taking down a statue of a confederate does not remove that confederate from the historical record. It also doesn’t remove the fact that said confederate had a statue from the historical record. Aside from the above stuff, you might also point out that the vast majority of the statues and monuments were not put up after the war but rather almost half a century or more later by rather racist and/or outright pro-secessionist groups that had nothing to do with the war and wanted to re-litigate the events and justification the south had for trying to secede from the union. See the Lost Cause types as an example. Incidentally, this is also why you can find statues of confederate "heroes" (Statues which more often than not are also associated with or were just straight proponents of slavery, though many of them are now being taken down.) in states that had literally nothing to do with the civil war. They're not historical at all if you look at the context as to why they were put up and kept up for so long. If anything many of the statues are ahistorical in that context. Rather, they were used as rallying points for bigots and as an intimidation tactic against minorities. Archonex fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 03:26
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Arrgytehpirate posted:What’s the counter to the erasing history argument when it comes to confederate statues and the renaming of schools and such? "do you know who Hitler is?" Followed by "Have you ever seen a statue of him?" I guess you could reverse the order We had a similar argument in Australia and Britain about Rhodes, who is one of the worst monsters of colonialism, yet whose name is attached to the most prestigious academic scholarship in the Commonwealth There Bias Two posted:The follow up to this is usually some comment defending the Confederacy as an attempt to protect states rights, which is also bullshit. Well, it's true, it's just that it was the states' rights to keep slaves.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:26
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Arrgytehpirate posted:What’s the counter to the erasing history argument when it comes to confederate statues and the renaming of schools and such? "So the statues of Lenin and Stalin should've stayed up in the former Warsaw Pact?" "The statue of Saddam Hussein should've stayed up?"
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Dec 27, 2017 03:27
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Also, you'd be hard pressed to find one single person who WOULD like to have every one of these statues removed, ground into dust, and thrown in a landfill - who would also like people to just erase history, forget everything that happened, let's just move on. Erasing history is what the statues still standing represent.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:28
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Archonex posted:Aside from the above stuff, you might also point out that the vast majority of the statues and monuments were not put up after the war but rather far later on by a rather racist group that wanted to re-litigate the events and justification the south had for trying to secede from the union. See the Lost Cause types as an example as an example. This is also why you can find statues of confederate "heroes" in states that had literally nothing to do with the civil war. That's the other thing. There's a fundamental difference between "Historical Sites" and "Monuments." Something marking a historical place or that has been standing from a historical time might have grounds to stay. Something erected in a town square 50 years ago to honor Civil War Generals ain't historical any more than the Hall of Presidents at Disney and Madame Tussauds Wax Museum are.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:29
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The statues were erected to erase history in the first place. Why are there tons of Statues of Robert E Lee, in places like Oregon no less, and much much fewer dedicated to Nat Turner if it's just about learning history and not glorification? Notice no one is saying we need to tear up historic Civil War battlefields in Virginia since those are actually about history. Ask what exactly someone that is coming in with no knowledge of the Civil War and the events that led to it and what happened after we are supposed to learn from a statue about how heroic some confederate General was. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 03:29
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KickerOfMice posted:Also, you'd be hard pressed to find one single person who WOULD like to have every one of these statues removed, ground into dust, and thrown in a landfill - who would also like people to just erase history, forget everything that happened, let's just move on. Erasing history is what the statues still standing represent. Well, more re-writing or white washing history but still.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:30
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STAC Goat posted:Well, more re-writing or white washing history but still. OMG you get what I mean! Yeah you're correct.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:32
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And here I am, still unable to get government funding for my Osama Bin Laden statue at Ground Zero.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:38
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The same people talking about how removing statues is erasing history would never in a trillion years agree to erecting statues honoring the people who were enslaved by the people depicted in those statues. You don't need to know a single other detail about people arguing against removing statues: sever, they are worthless and horrible and they will never change
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Dec 27, 2017 03:39
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empty whippet box posted:sever, they are worthless and horrible and they will never change Oh that's just silly.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:41
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Just saw this , https://www.thedailybeast.com/robert-mueller-may-indict-paul-manafort-again posted:And no one may feel more heat than Paul Manafort. In Washington legal circles, there’s a broad expectation that Mueller will file what’s called a superseding indictment of Manafort and Rick Gates, his erstwhile business partner—and alleged partner in crime. Gates and Manafort both pleaded not guilty when Mueller’s team filed their indictment on Oct. 30. Legal experts say there may be more charges to come.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:46
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Trabisnikof posted:It actually does matter because if Republicans were sane and cynical they'd know the truism that a good parasite doesn't kill the host. Instead they're insane and believe that if they just kill the host they can have it all! Nah they're fine being the biggest cancer fish in a drying coal mud pond.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:49
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WeAreTheRomans posted:PPJ you do great work in this thread, but this posting of some no-mark extremely online teenager's awful no-good bad opinions does nothing for anyone Sometimes I just catch gems and feel good stories while eggnog drinkin' and I don't have the time to make a full post https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/945827055043862528 https://twitter.com/APWestRegion/status/945831207241166848 cause life is just fun for some americans https://twitter.com/DavidBegnaud/status/945419960402300928
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Dec 27, 2017 03:49
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How Will Children Understand WWII Without America's Hitler Statues?
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Dec 27, 2017 03:55
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empty whippet box posted:The same people talking about how removing statues is erasing history would never in a trillion years agree to erecting statues honoring the people who were enslaved by the people depicted in those statues. You don't need to know a single other detail about people arguing against removing statues: sever, they are worthless and horrible and they will never change Because I think this deserves more than my "well that's just silly" (which it is) Guessing that someone won't believe you when you tell them the truth, and then then turning away from them, is an incredibly dickish thing to do. e- I'm not trying to start a personal attack/argument, but that's their family! KickerOfMice fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 03:56
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Statue of the great dictator: 
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Dec 27, 2017 04:05
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