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Also, homerun from TheOnion again- NEWS IN BRIEF - Trump Insists That Now, More Than Ever, Americans Must Stand Strong In Face Of Empathy taxes: 
KickerOfMice fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 04:10
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This whole mess of his could of been avoided if he simply wore some kind of face concealing hood. Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 04:29
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WeAreTheRomans posted:PPJ you do great work in this thread, but this posting of some no-mark extremely online teenager's awful no-good bad opinions does nothing for anyone I dunno I love watching people get dunked on twitter. PPJ you have a promising career in the Idiots on Social Media thread if you wanna post more dunks there.
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Dec 27, 2017 04:33
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:This whole mess of his could of been avoided if he simply wore some kind of face concealing hood. You have a point there. His hood should have a point too.
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Dec 27, 2017 04:45
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Arrgytehpirate posted:What’s the counter to the erasing history argument when it comes to confederate statues and the renaming of schools and such? US Army Blowing Up Giant Swastika at Nurenberg Parade Grounds.gif Woman Removing "Adolf Hitler St." name tag in Liberated Mariupol.jpg Monuments are put in by people with power to glorify something, usually distorting history as they go.
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Dec 27, 2017 04:48
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The argument about whether statues are honorary or historical is not really that relevant. What matters is that the history that they tell is a lie of omission.
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Dec 27, 2017 04:50
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empty whippet box posted:The same people talking about how removing statues is erasing history would never in a trillion years agree to erecting statues honoring the people who were enslaved by the people depicted in those statues. nah quote:You don't need to know a single other detail about people arguing against removing statues: nah quote:sever, they are worthless and horrible and they will never change nah source: two personal anecdotal instances there are demographics that can be reached with arguments along the lines of "how about we establish proper contextual spaces for this sort of thing" and "speaking of which, the historical context in which a lot of these statues were put up is horrible and should in fact be noted" there's a fairly strong and quasi-bipartisan push at and around the University of Texas to honor... uh, the black Texas Congressman who had a big hand in Texan public education, whose name I don't recall in my defense, I don't recall the name of the Confederate-commander-but-that's-incidental-to-why-they're-keeping-his-statue governor re: the University of Texas either edit: black public education dude wasn't a freedman as far as I can recall but you get the idea OneEightHundred posted:The argument about whether statues are honorary or historical is not really that relevant. What matters is that the history that they tell is a lie of omission. This is an even better point but whippet box was being a moron and rear end in a top hat and I wanted to call him out. Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 05:04
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Most of those confederate statues were made long after the civil war, closer to modern times, especially during times where there was pushback against expanding human rights for blacks. 20 minute takedown of the confederate statues argument right here by John Oliver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5b_-TZwQ0I Someone also made this very good point a while back in here: quote:Interesting thing about the whole "you can't erase history" argument is that the Confederacy existed for a grand total of about 4 years. Reconstruction, which has largely been forgotten about, lasted 12. Three times as long.
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Dec 27, 2017 05:19
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Arrgytehpirate posted:What’s the counter to the erasing history argument when it comes to confederate statues and the renaming of schools and such? many of these statues were put up after the war in the public square for the explicit purpose of reinforcing white supremacy over black southerners. people dont want to erase history, which is why statues on battlefields and at historic sites are left alone. ask them why there should be a statue of robert lee on the main drag in richmond, a city he was not from. ask them if it would be ok to build statues of union generals immediately adjacent to the statues of confederates the short argument would be, there are no statues of hitler or the nazis anywhere in germany. why is that? have people forgotten about hitler and the nazis? e: the poster above me reiterated a very good point. there are very few statues of james longstreet, who after the war pretty much completely renounced the confederacy and embraced reconstruction. this made him anathema to southern lost cause revisionists to the point that they tried to blame him for lee's loss at gettysburg, which was viewed at the time as the high water mark of the confederacy - the "we were so close" moment. really what lost gettysburg was jeb stuart, lee's cavalry commander, being absent for critical early phases of the battle, as well as uncharacteristic aggression and poor decision making from lee himself. longstreet was in many ways lee's right hand man (especially after the death of stonewall jackson) and for such a prominent confederate general to be effectively absent from postwar southern apologetics is extremely telling boner confessor fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 05:21
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Dumb Lowtax posted:Most of those confederate statues were made long after the civil war, closer to modern times, especially during times where there was pushback against expanding human rights for blacks. I want a goddamned hojillion memorials to Reconstruction heroes, especially the unpleasantly large number who were murdered or maimed. Longstreet and the Louisiana revolts are actually at the center of some of the arguments I like to make - the Colfax Massacre memorials and the related New Orleans Battle of Liberty Place Monument (commemorating the vicious shitheads whose revolt in New Orleans fell flat on its stupid horrible face although it briefly took Longstreet prisoner) are basically the most directly horrible prominent Confederate monuments I'm aware of so far. They make an excellent extreme case of "should these be left in place in their original location where they were meant to intimidate colored folks, or preserved for posterity in a These Are Horrible Things Commemorating A Horrible Past And Installed By Horrible People For Horrible Reasons exhibit?" the trickier application of my general position on the topic is the statues and monuments of no meaningful historical value but I think we could, as mentioned earlier in the thread, derive some useful lessons and inspiration from former Soviet republics' handling of their own statue surplus boner confessor posted:people dont want to erase history, which is why statues on battlefields and at historic sites are left alone. There was in the immediate past a kerfuffle about the removal of the statue on Nathan Bedford Forrest's grave on which I have swung from supporting removal -> lukewarmly opposing removal -> ambivalent, based on goon-provided information and arguments. edit to clarify a boner-confessor-post relevant detail: his gravesite wound up on a city park, not a graveyard, which adds a fun twist to the question of whether the city should pay to maintain it in its original position or, say, sell the park to a nonprofit so the nonprofit can remove the statue vvvvv I was too late Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 05:30
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imo statues of specific people should definitely be removed from public display in all cases except for battlefields and graveyards. i'm a bit more hesitant, but generally supportive, of removing memorials for generic soldiers or non-specific memorials to the confederacy. my own town has a confederate memorial behind the old courthouse and if you didn't look at it closely and read what it says, it's just an obelisk with CSA carved on it. it's been defaced and the city has voted to remove it, tho it's not sure how or to where yet, or if the city even has the authority to move it. at least parts of the civil war actually happened here and it's not some flyspeck town the war never really touched, or worse, a confederate memorial in a non-confederate stateGreyjoyBastard posted:There was in the immediate past a kerfuffle about the removal of the statue on Nathan Bedford Forrest's grave on which I have swung from supporting removal -> lukewarmly opposing removal -> ambivalent, based on goon-provided information and arguments. he was a big piece of poo poo but imo leave graveyards alone GreyjoyBastard posted:edit to clarify a boner-confessor-post relevant detail: his gravesite wound up on a city park, not a graveyard, which adds a fun twist to the question of whether the city should pay to maintain it in its original position or, say, sell the park to a nonprofit so the nonprofit can remove the statue ah, that's a weird case then. idk rebury him or axe the statue boner confessor fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 05:33
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I came out as nonbinary two days ago, and the venn diagram for people who were terrible about it and Trumpists was a loving circle. Economic anxiety. Sure.
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Dec 27, 2017 06:19
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"They were mainly put up by KKK members in the 20's and the 60's to intimidate black people protesting for civil rights. That's why they're usually near courthouses." This is pretty much all you have to say, tbh. If they argue it you're factually correct and can easily prove it with a 2 second google search. At that point they probably go "Huh, I didn't know that," if they are just uninformed, (which a lot of people are, this stuff is only starting to be realized in the public consciousness,) and even if they need to think about it for a while you've probably won them over. Or they were a racist to begin with and that doesn't bother them.
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Dec 27, 2017 06:28
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Classtoise posted:Oh don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are people who will have loving charts prepared that Breitbart told them proves why Certain People are abusing Food Stamps to trade lobster for AR-15s (which they have every right to own God Bless America) to shoot their pregnant girlfriends in the belly. But I figure until then I'll just challenge it and maybe it'll actually push someones dumb No charts so I don’t know how commonplace it is, but when I worked with adults with developmental disabilities a huge issue was food stamp mismanagement. Like, everyone I worked with loving wasted them and it was frustrating to see. Pretty much everyone on my caseload cashed out the cash portion as soon as they could and used it to buy video games and entertainment poo poo and then would complain that they didn’t have enough to eat. One guy that drove me nuts would just buy bulk frozen chicken and rice for as cheap as possible, and then would use the rest to buy pure junk food or massively overpriced luxury food. He would also sell food he bought to buddies for video game money. Again, my caseload had some developmental issues but I imagine it’s super common to waste it on garbage. We have so much lovely junk food available that the processed garbage route is a very easy way to go. I don’t think it’s really a food stamp problem as much as it is that many people in poverty are likely to also be at a lower education level, more impulsive with purchases, and less likely to have the luxury of thinking about nutritional value when many are struggling to just keep their heads above water. The worst part is that some people knew how the game the system hard, and others who truly needed it usually weren’t assertive or capable enough to get what they needed without help.
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Dec 27, 2017 06:45
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KickerOfMice posted:Also, homerun from TheOnion again- The Onion's really nailing it lately. I'm just going down the page going, drat. drat. Da-yum.
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Dec 27, 2017 07:02
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holy loving poo poo what a god drat hero.
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Dec 27, 2017 07:12
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KickerOfMice posted:Not that I'm trying to throw Paul Ryan a rope, he's a destructive rear end in a top hat too, I just think it's a different diagnosis. Mitch is a amoral manipulative psycho. Ryan is a naive true believer who thinks he's saving the world The Kochs are true believers too, especially Charles. But they aren't naive like Ryan.
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Dec 27, 2017 07:21
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My favorite memorial is the one in SF that's dedicated to the guy who shot Ataturk as revenge for the Armenian Genocide.
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Dec 27, 2017 07:41
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twistedmentat posted:My favorite memorial is the one in SF that's dedicated to the guy who shot Ataturk as revenge for the Armenian Genocide. Where's the statue of Rand Paul's neighbour?
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Dec 27, 2017 07:51
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Katt posted:Where's the statue of Rand Paul's neighbour? We're waiting to erect that one for when he hopefully finishes the job.
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Dec 27, 2017 07:53
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LividLiquid posted:I came out as nonbinary two days ago, and the venn diagram for people who were terrible about it and Trumpists was a loving circle. sorry you had to deal with that  even well meaning people can be pretty awful at understanding/respecting non-binary identities, so I can only imagine. but hey, congratulations on coming out!!! It's exciting!! Stressful, but coming out/transitioning feels really good, too. 
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Dec 27, 2017 08:06
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Gnossiennes posted:sorry you had to deal with that
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Dec 27, 2017 08:09
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Katt posted:Where's the statue of Rand Paul's neighbour? I would like to suggest, if it hasn't been done already, that we start referring to Rand Paul's rear end-kicking as the Bowling Green Massacre.
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Dec 27, 2017 08:11
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twistedmentat posted:My favorite memorial is the one in SF that's dedicated to the guy who shot Ataturk as revenge for the Armenian Genocide. The Spanish put up a shrine to Magellan in the Phillipines and the Phillipines later added a big statue of the guy who killed Magellan next to it.
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Dec 27, 2017 08:12
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LividLiquid posted:I came out as nonbinary two days ago, and the venn diagram for people who were terrible about it and Trumpists was a loving circle. Hey, for whatever it's worth coming from someone like me, I wanna know you are cool and awesome and hope for the best in anything you do. You be you.
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Dec 27, 2017 08:17
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FuturePastNow posted:The Spanish put up a shrine to Magellan in the Phillipines and the Phillipines later added a big statue of the guy who killed Magellan next to it. Sort of like the Rampaging bull/Brave little girl statues then. Minus the part where the gay illuminati feminists have the original artist assassinated to keep him from disrupting their narrative that girls can be brave.
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Dec 27, 2017 08:18
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LividLiquid posted:I came out as nonbinary two days ago, and the venn diagram for people who were terrible about it and Trumpists was a loving circle. These people are garbage and you are 1000% a cool and good person who shouldn't have to deal with this poo poo because of who you are. You are you and gently caress anyone who makes you feel bad for being non-binary.
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Dec 27, 2017 08:44
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Belated happy holidays to all the folks in this thread, I got to have a semi-civil conversation with my boomer father during christmas. Just a few days before Christmas he slapped me with the literal quote of "we had this saying when I was a kid, it was about lifting yourself up by your bootstraps" in response to my asking if he can help me/my mom out financially since she is unable to work her decently-paying nannying job anymore and now has to work in a call center for 350 dollars a week full time (she also might be getting fired due to idiots at the top loving up a major contract for the company), I make a good wage but it's nowhere near enough for her medical costs and such. I shared with him that huffpo article about how hosed things have gotten for millennials and he's gained a new appreciation for how badly America has gotten hosed up over the last few decades, especially for my generation. So thanks to whoever posted that originally. I still think he will never really turn to my side since he's intensely xenophobic and racist due to his absurdly white Illinoisian upbringing, but at least he's starting to lessen up on the "millennials are lazy and useless" stupidity people his age seem to love to parrot. There Bias Two posted:The follow up to this is usually some comment defending the Confederacy as an attempt to protect states rights, which is also bullshit.
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Dec 27, 2017 09:13
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I'm still dumbfounded that "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" is literally impossible, meant to mean "an impossible act", and still it tips off no one that "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" might not be practical. The word entitled, now meaning its exact opposite might be the worst, but like bad apples, they are isolated and do not corrupt others.
Babylon Astronaut fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 09:36
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The GOP has always excelled in phrase appropriation. It doesn't have to make sense or even be accurate or appropriate, it just has to be short, memorable, and biting enough to be survive as a talking point. It also helps if you can come up with one that doesn't apply to your richest supporters and makes your poorest think you're recognizing their struggle.
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Dec 27, 2017 09:54
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Does anyone have that millennial article?mistaya posted:"They were mainly put up by KKK members in the 20's and the 60's to intimidate black people protesting for civil rights. That's why they're usually near courthouses." This is pretty much all you have to say, tbh. If they argue it you're factually correct and can easily prove it with a 2 second google search. At that point they probably go "Huh, I didn't know that," if they are just uninformed, (which a lot of people are, this stuff is only starting to be realized in the public consciousness,) and even if they need to think about it for a while you've probably won them over. Or they were a racist to begin with and that doesn't bother them. The more important thing for them is to get mad upon realizing that they were intentionally misled (in this case through omission) on an issue. Somewhere down the line, someone who knew better (even if it was the original statue builders) chose to lie to them about the story it worked. They should be enraged about being used like this with a knowingly false narrative that turns out to have been crafted in bad faith with the goal of bringing back slavery. But they never are. Probably has a lot to do with Prester Jane's internal narrative / external narrative gap, where they are just telling you they believe crap to win an argument and it's not actually as important a point to them as they say. Happy Thread fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 10:39
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Dumb Lowtax posted:Does anyone have that millennial article?
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Dec 27, 2017 10:44
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The two biggest differences in the confederate vs the US constitution are slavery and the funding of improvements to waterways. Which one do you think people took up arms for??
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Dec 27, 2017 10:45
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Babylon Astronaut posted:The two biggest differences in the confederate vs the US constitution are slavery and the funding of improvements to waterways. Which one do you think people took up arms for?? "But the majority of Southerners never owned slaves! Owning a slave was like owning a BMW! Only the richest Southerners could own a lot, and only the upper middle class could afford one or a few!" Yet another example of how "what's old is new again" - poor Southerners took up arms to defend ~STATEZ RAIGHTZ~ because...SURVEY SAYS...they *probably* all stupidly saw themselves as working their way *toward* being ~one'a them fancey farmers whut could afford a nigra'r two sumday~, the same way the GOP keeps their biggest and most loyal morons on a leash by saying their loving with the tax code will make everyone millionaires and billionaires someday, so long as you believe in the ghost of Ronald Reagan and American Jesus. Oh, and of course, the old chestnut that the faithful, poor, and meek get their *true* reward when they go to ~Heaven~. Meanwhile, *rich* Southerners rallied the rabble with that bullshit rhetoric because they realized if they were able to retain the power to own slaves and utilize slave labor, they'd create a society that would have been the equivalent of modern China today. Super low-cost labor almost entirely centered in the hands of the rich and wealthy. If the South had won the war or fought to a stalemate and retained sovereignty, it'd be a feudal society where all below a well-defended societal and wealth line would've been either serfs or slaves - the same thing we're inching our way toward now. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 11:07
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Arrgytehpirate posted:What’s the counter to the erasing history argument when it comes to confederate statues and the renaming of schools and such? Just have them listen to Notes on an Imagined Plaque to be Added to the Statue of General Nathan Bedford Forrest, Upon Hearing that the Memphis City Council has Voted to Move it and the Exhumed Remains of General Forrest and his Wife, Mary Ann Montgomery Forrest, from their Current Location in a Park Downtown, to the Nearby Elmwood Cemetery.. It's only about 10 minutes. Also, feels good that after the initial 2015 broadcast (when the Forrest statue's removal was blocked), it finally came down on the 20th.
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Dec 27, 2017 11:43
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So evidently January is going to be Infrastructure Month.
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Dec 27, 2017 12:54
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So we'll get a full month of outrageous tweets from Trump to make us forget about infrastructure. Nice!
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Dec 27, 2017 12:56
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I knew most of this already but holy gently caress does that not make me mad E: especially the conversation with older people about home ownership, gently caress off with the I bought my first house when... poo poo
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Dec 27, 2017 13:01
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Arrgytehpirate posted:What’s the counter to the erasing history argument when it comes to confederate statues and the renaming of schools and such? i mean, again, we have holocaust memorials in germany. if you want to have visible reminders of your history, nobody is stopping you. but the holocaust memorials aren't exactly about how great the holocaust was, you know. they honor the victims. so if you want statues about the civil war, how about building some monuments to the black slaves woh built the white house and everything else?
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Dec 27, 2017 13:02
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Babylon Astronaut posted:I'm still dumbfounded that "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" is literally impossible, meant to mean "an impossible act", and still it tips off no one that "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" might not be practical. The word entitled, now meaning its exact opposite might be the worst, but like bad apples, they are isolated and do not corrupt others. I feel like “bootstrapping” is a term that goes back long before being used in a modern economic context, for what it’s worth, probably in a tongue-in-cheek way before it lost its sense of original meaning. It’s why we call starting up a computer “booting” it after all.
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Dec 27, 2017 13:10
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