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Best producer/showrunner? This poll is closed. |
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| Verity Lambert |
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30 | 15.31% |
| Barry Letts |
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7 | 3.57% |
| Phillip Hinchcliffe |
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32 | 16.33% |
| John Nathan-Turner |
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6 | 3.06% |
| Russell T Davies |
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33 | 16.84% |
| Steven Moffat |
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50 | 25.51% |
| Chris Chibnall (I am from the future) |
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38 | 19.39% |
| Total: | 196 votes | ||
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I share many misgivings about the Xmas episode, I don't buy that the Testimony is, if not actually evil, actually good, but perhaps that will be explored later. Very happy for our first look at 13 and I hope at some point she can own 10 like 11 did, I'm very pro that. I personally wish that the TARDIS was given more credit as a sentient being which can handle all of time and space and has a better idea of where the Doctor is needed than the Doctor him/herself, that's just something I wanted to add because boy am I tired of the "oh no the Tardis is blowing up with a new Doctor" routine. But I'm disappointed that the poll didn't include Graham Williams who produced some of my favourite classic Who ever and did it under trying circumstances 
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Dec 27, 2017 04:54
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Stabbatical posted:a big influence for Moffat's Testimony. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Light_of_Other_Days Maybe been said here already, but I would say Arthur C Clarkes The Light of Other Days had a bit of influence on Testimony. Ill spoiler the end of the book here just in case someone wants to read it The main character just suddenly 'wakes' up and its the future. The future society decides to imprint everyone who ever existed into the quantum foam of the universe so they could exist forever.
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Dec 27, 2017 04:59
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ewe2 posted:I share many misgivings about the Xmas episode, I don't buy that the Testimony is, if not actually evil, actually good, but perhaps that will be explored later. Very happy for our first look at 13 and I hope at some point she can own 10 like 11 did, I'm very pro that. I personally wish that the TARDIS was given more credit as a sentient being which can handle all of time and space and has a better idea of where the Doctor is needed than the Doctor him/herself, that's just something I wanted to add because boy am I tired of the "oh no the Tardis is blowing up with a new Doctor" routine. Testimony will not return, or if it does, it will return in a mediocre Big Finish in 15 years. Take the story at face value and accept the premise that it's not an evil plot, maybe?
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Dec 27, 2017 05:02
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I will really miss this control room, it was the best we've had in the entire revival.
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Dec 27, 2017 05:19
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Rhyno posted:I will really miss this control room, it was the best we've had in the entire revival. further violating gender stereotypes Thirteen will just throw all her poo poo on the floor and tidy up maybe once a month
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Dec 27, 2017 05:24
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Chokes McGee posted:further violating gender stereotypes Thirteen will just throw all her poo poo on the floor and tidy up maybe once a month I didn't know that I was the new Doctor.
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Dec 27, 2017 05:34
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My grandfather is dying so I 'm on call to visit him and will not see this in theater as planned, so I downloaded it, and I really, really, don't like it so far. All respect to people who loved it, and I hope you continue to enjoy it, but Bradly sounds more like an early Cyberman than One, he's intentionally personified as a sexist in a way that one wasn't, and there's nothing else going on so far. It was a huge mistake to actually show Hartnell, because it emphasizes how much Bradley is doing an impersonation, and they keep playing him as a confused, buffonish idiot. I just watched the whole Hartnell run, and this is not One. I'm only fifteen minutes in. I really, really hope that it improves enough to say goodbye to Capaldi on a high note. 
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Dec 27, 2017 05:47
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Bicyclops posted:My grandfather is dying Sorry to hear that man. Hope it's relatively a peaceful time for him.
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Dec 27, 2017 05:52
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I'm surprised that Moffat resisted the urge to revisit the All 13!! moment from 12's POV.
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Dec 27, 2017 06:00
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Burkion posted:Sorry to hear that man. Hope it's relatively a peaceful time for him. Thank you. It's been a really weird, emotionally roller coaster Christmas, with a baby on the way and my grandfather dying on his own terms, in his house, saying goodbye in dribs and drabs. Anyway, I don't like Bradley stumbling around a stereotypical, confused old man. I think it robs One of all of the charming personality he had. Shoving sexist language is also insult to injury. I'm sort of glad I didn't see this in a row of people wearing TARDIS dresses, because I would have been groaning through my popcorn and detracting from their enjoyment. Sorry if my pessimism here is doing that for anyone in the thread, but this special stinks, worse than the superhero one. e: "Can't we just pretend that that never happened?" Yes, thank you, Twelve, let's.
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Dec 27, 2017 06:01
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I've seen criminally little of the First Doctor's run. What are his strongest serials, would you say Bicyclops?
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Dec 27, 2017 06:08
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Burkion posted:I've seen criminally little of the First Doctor's run. That's a tough one, and one that people a little better experienced than me should answer. Let's pick nine: I'm a sucker for An Unearthly Child and The Daleks, Planet of Giants The Dalek Invasion of Earth, The Rescue, The Space Museum, The Ark, The Celestial Toymaker (has major racism issues), The War Machines and The Tenth Planet. Dalek Invasion of Earth, War Machines and Tenth Planet are almost entirely due to Hartnell's acting. He does often play an out-of-touch grandpa, but one with cunning who always supports his wards more than himself, even when he indignantly pretends not to.
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Dec 27, 2017 06:17
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Didn't the First Doctor have to be stopped from braining some random dude with a rock, or something? Like most people watching the show now, I haven't seen more than a few bits of One and have zero interest in watching older stuff.
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Dec 27, 2017 06:24
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jivjov posted:I'm surprised that Moffat resisted the urge to revisit the All 13!! moment from 12's POV. MisterBibs posted:Didn't the First Doctor have to be stopped from braining some random dude with a rock, or something? Like most people watching the show now, I haven't seen more than a few bits of One and have zero interest in watching older stuff. Though, also like Capaldi, he mellowed out and was an unambiguous Good Guy before too long
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Dec 27, 2017 06:30
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MisterBibs posted:Didn't the First Doctor have to be stopped from braining some random dude with a rock, or something? Like most people watching the show now, I haven't seen more than a few bits of One and have zero interest in watching older stuff. Keep in mind that the character of the Doctor wasn't written as it would become, and that Hartnell had his own ideas about the role that started to become fleshed out a few years into it. That said, the rock thing is one of those glaring examples of the Doctor not being the character we know nowadays. Edit so I can keep this somewhat in track with the new episode: did anybody wonder why they hired two actors to play former companions when they were only seen at the very beginning and that was it? I get that Moffatt probably wanted to redo some of the Tenth Planet scenes, but considering how Bradley's last scene in the show went, it seemed kinda pointless to have a Ben and Polly when they ended up being an afterthought.
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Dec 27, 2017 06:30
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MisterBibs posted:Didn't the First Doctor have to be stopped from braining some random dude with a rock, or something? Like most people watching the show now, I haven't seen more than a few bits of One and have zero interest in watching older stuff. In like the second episode, yes. The first three serials of Doctor Who are about him learning to respect people outside of Susan and him. I'd suggest watching the five minute clips of Hartnell 1) doing his "I shall be back. Yes, I shall be back" speech 2) his arguing with Ian and Barbara in the Chase when they want to go home and 3) his asking Victoria if she wants to come along if you want to get some quick instances of his character. He was needy and proud, but he values his companions over him, and eventually would selflessly put their needs in front of his.
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Dec 27, 2017 06:35
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I can't imagine anybody would watch this episode and think "gee, now I want to see more stories with One" which is a bit poo poo compared to virtually every other multi-Doctor story.
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Dec 27, 2017 06:38
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Burkion posted:What are his strongest serials, would you say Bicyclops? I'm not Bicyclops, buttttt...... even if you don't watch the rest of the serial, you owe it to yourself to see at least the first episode of An Unearthly Child. The Daleks is great in parts but has a lot of padding, and The Aztecs is a lot of fun with a surprisingly dark ending and a very nice commentary on how modern sensibilities aren't necessarily universal. The Dalek Invasion of Earth is superb, absolutely watch it. The Romans is a blast as is The Time Meddler, both are more comedic than other stories of the time. The Ark isn't actually all that great but has one of the absolute best cliffhangers in Who history. The War Machines I thoroughly enjoy but it feels like a proto-UNIT/Pertwee era story that just so happened to feature the 1st Doctor. If you could only watch ONE Hartnell story though, I'd say The Dalek Invasion of Earth. It's my absolute favorite of Hartnell's run.
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Dec 27, 2017 06:39
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Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:
Yeah, what was the point of that? Moffat is really big on introducing a concept and then returning to it with a new perspective and imbuing it with new meaning, it's a part of what makes so many of his other stories have impact and symmetry . It really feels like something was cut there, because they had all these weird, pregnant lines that felt like they ended with an ellipses, and then we never went back there. There's something about the special that felt weirdly unfinished, like there were a bunch of loosely connected concepts thrown together at the last second, like a Terry Nation script. If it weren't for the fact that there was a lot of time between this and the previous episode and the fact that it has so many Moffat signatures, I'd say it was a franken-script in which someone else's half-finished concept was given to somebody else or there was a rushed deadline. A lot of it felt like it lacked intention and was just trying to hit some of the notes.
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Dec 27, 2017 06:44
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The Romans and The Time Meddler are fun, but sometimes humor doesn't travel as well, and I feel like that's true of the Romans. I love it, but the Nero scenes just don't work as well in today's climate. The Time Meddler is mostly still funny, but I think it works best in context, and I think Stephen's intro is one of the weakest of One's companions. I guess I also have to agree that The Ark isn't that great overall, it just has one of the better twists of like, all of televised Doctor Who, and it's not as padded as some of the other serials (The Daleks, much as I love it, is definitely padded to hell in the second half, and The Dalek Invasion of Earth carries a bit of its weight in the first half).
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Dec 27, 2017 06:50
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Chokes McGee posted:The best part was the "Huh, that's neat! Now that I'm thinking about it, wasn't Twelve generally depicted as one of the best pilots? He brought in the TARDIS around a moving pilot in Into the Dalek, landed some other fairly improbable marks, and the only time he really landed wrong at all was when the Boneless threw him off course. Of all the Doctors, he should've been the one who could plot a stable course so his successor could land it safely. So the fact he didn't? Dick move, Twelve.
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Dec 27, 2017 06:51
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" followed by immediately going into ACTION DOCTOR mode when the TARDIS blows up as usual. She barely got a chance to see her new face before she's hanging on for dear life.
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I should have clarified By Criminally Little I meant "I've seen all of the Dalek episodes, the Tenth Planet and Unearthly Child" (and the THree Doctors)
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Dec 27, 2017 06:51
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Hey, nerds. I came out as nonbinary two days ago. That's me in a fishnet-armed dress in a picture I sent out to every friend and family member who's connected with me on social media. Let me tell you all what this moment meant to me, the day after I came out to my family and my friends. The day after I laid it all on the line and it went better than it should've, but still left me with a handful of people who knew and loved me saying, "No. You're not allowed to be you." The Doctor, looking at her face in the mirror of the console of her Tardis, saw herself. And she didn't crack some stupid loving joke like Missy has been, about her womanhood. Because as well-meaning as Moffat is, he's ignorant. He's not purposefully an rear end in a top hat, I don't think. He just doesn't get it sometimes. The Doctor. She didn't look at herself, and say, "Oh, Jeez! What now? Whackadyschmackadydoo!" She didn't have a companion there to make a dumb joke about how different she was. She didn't look confused, or bemused, or anything gross. It wasn't weird that she was a woman. She looked into the mirror, and she saw her face. her face. And she smiled. Gleefully. And she said, "Oh, brilliant." And everybody like me got to feel a little more alive than we usually do. Because, yes, that's a moment we have. When we take a selfie, or we look in the mirror, and we finally go, after a lifetime of seeing a stranger in the mirror (in my case only about half the time,) "Yeah. That's it. That's finally my face." I have no representation on television or in movies. None. And yesterday, I got representation not just from a show I love, but a cultural institution that has existed for over fifty years. Something that sustained me in the hardest parts of my life. Something that has existed for decades upon decades gone by, looked at me, and was like, "Yo. You matter." And I can't even explain to you how important that was to me. Not to get too personal, but my own Catholic mother, in her sixties, was... exactly how you'd expect. And having Doctor Who tell me I was alright being me was a big loving deal. Also, I live in Seattle and shouldn't even have an opinion on this, but The Daily Mail can suck it. This was life-changing for me.
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Dec 27, 2017 07:01
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Burkion posted:I should have clarified The Azteks is probably the most universally agreed upon serial after that, and I get why (it's got the "You can't change history, not one line!" moment, and the Doctor kind of tottering on his own and getting caught in a romantic encounter), but it's not really among my favorites. It's got the stock Historical Villain as established by Marco Polo, way too many Star Trek-y hand-to-hand combat fights, and it a little too much divide and conquer. I do like it for giving a lot of material to Jacqueline Hill. If you haven't seen The Chase, I think it's a good one to watch. It takes place just after Susan departs, and One deals with the Vicki situation so incredibly gently and protectively when it comes to Vicki but with absolutely incendiary anger when it comes to Vicki's monster. There are points where it's dated, but you can see the DNA for a Tennant serial inside of it. I will say, for the current special, I really liked those last five minutes in the TARDIS. That's a good goodbye to Moffat era, didactic and direct though it might be. I wish the rest of the episode had been like that. e: LividLiquid, I'm really glad you had the courage to be yourself, and I hope that you're surrounded by people who support and bolster you in your identity. Congratulations on finding a place of comfort in expressing your nonbinary identity. I'm glad you felt comfortable telling us all here, in the Doctor Who thread! 
Bicyclops fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 07:09
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LividLiquid posted:Hey, nerds. I came out as nonbinary two days ago. Congratulations! And thanks for sharing your story! You are extremely brave. I was already on board with Jodie Whittaker as Doctor, and I thought about how cool it is for little girls to see something of themselves in this character, but I’m ashamed to admit that I didn’t think about how important it would be for someone who is non-binary. I’m glad for the perspective. Best of luck going forward!
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Dec 27, 2017 07:13
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Bicyclops posted:Yeah, what was the point of that? Moffat is really big on introducing a concept and then returning to it with a new perspective and imbuing it with new meaning, it's a part of what makes so many of his other stories have impact and symmetry . It really feels like something was cut there, because they had all these weird, pregnant lines that felt like they ended with an ellipses, and then we never went back there. There's something about the special that felt weirdly unfinished, like there were a bunch of loosely connected concepts thrown together at the last second, like a Terry Nation script. I was thinking this as I rewatched, any character conflicts are implied at best and nothing really happens in the story to resolve them. The First Doctor sees this big montage about how he's going to become The Doctor Of War, and... never mentions it again, except right at the end. Still, Capaldi saving the Captain can resolve that conflict, and I can see why the First Doctor would decide to go ahead with regeneration... but why does Capaldi decide to go ahead with it? He pretty much just says "ah what the hell" rather than anything happening to make him change his mind. Also the Captain does gently caress-all! He just mopes around, says he doesn't want to die, then willingly goes to die without anything happening to change his mind either. He only exists as a part for Mark Gatiss to play and to drop the most obvious twist on earth when he reveals his name. The most notable emotional beats are just cribbed from earlier episodes as well. "Can't I rest" from Heaven Sent, big goodbye speech imparting life lessons like "never eat pears" from Hell Bent, a million words about how being kind is ace from The Doctor Falls. I know Moffat's got a reputation for reusing concepts and story beats, but I've never got the impression before that he straight up copied lines from his previous episodes It got the tone right, but as far as stuff happening in the episode I think this one was basically a dud.
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Dec 27, 2017 07:14
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I'm really worried that my last line sounded sarcastic, on re-reading it, and I want to make sure that I express that I absolutely meant it. I'm really glad that that this particular place, where we all talk about a piece o' media and sometimes exchange Christmas presents, felt like a safe enough place for talking about coming out. I think that's good. Yeah, I agree with most of this. That five minute scene that's literally just a recitation of some of the better Moffat notes is great, but the reasons behind it are tenuous. And the high concept of "seized before the end of your life so that your memories can be used for the greater good" is right up my alley and right up Doctor Who's alley, it just feels like they fumbled the ball the time. And the regeneration scene itself was great.
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Dec 27, 2017 07:20
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Oh, and eveything you've ever expected to support you once your gender changes? Gone. It dumps you out of its door unceremoniously and leaves you grasping at its door, like, "Please. No. What?"
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Dec 27, 2017 07:45
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TL posted:Congratulations! And thanks for sharing your story! You are extremely brave.
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Dec 27, 2017 07:52
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LividLiquid posted:Hey, nerds. I came out as nonbinary two days ago. Good for you, Livid, and I'm really happy Doctor Who gave you a lift when it was needed
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Dec 27, 2017 08:26
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It's not the best serial of the era, but The Space Museum would probably act as a pretty good "counterpoint", or whatever you might say, to Twice Upon a Time's depiction of the First Doctor. You get to see more of the cheekier, more warmly mischievous side that the Doctor had developed by then, and the younger female companion of the time spends the story fostering armed revolution.LividLiquid posted:Not to get too personal, but my own Catholic mother, in her sixties, was... exactly how you'd expect. And having Doctor Who tell me I was alright being me was a big loving deal. Great to hear that the show was able to do that for you, thanks for sharing. Hopefully your ma comes around.
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Dec 27, 2017 09:08
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The annoying thing with this episode was I called it - I turned to my dad after the ending and said "so how many idiots do you think are going to make 'LOL Woman Driver' jokes?" I'm not surprised - but I'm disappointed that I called it. Also best of luck Livid!
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Dec 27, 2017 09:14
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Good on you Livid. I saw your posts in d&d too, and I'm sorry you're being made to go through what you're going through. I hope certain people find their better angels, but in any case, don't ever be ashamed of who you are. You are unique in the universe - there is only one Livid Liquid, and there will never be another  Bicyclops posted:Thank you. It's been a really weird, emotionally roller coaster Christmas, with a baby on the way and my grandfather dying on his own terms, in his house, saying goodbye in dribs and drabs. First up, sorry to hear about your grandfather, dude. But from my own experience with my own grampy, getting to go at home is about the best one could hope for given the circumstances. I hope he's comfortable and peaceful. Anyway, 'stereotypical confused old man' (with added sexism) is exactly what was so irritating about Bradley's portrayal/the writing. One could have a sharp tongue, but he was usually impish and clever with it, and especially at this point in Hartnell's portrayal he was also pretty gentle towards people. This was more like Patrick Moore in a wig. Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 09:52
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DoctorWhat posted:Testimony will not return, or if it does, it will return in a mediocre Big Finish in 15 years. Take the story at face value and accept the premise that it's not an evil plot, maybe? You're wrong.
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Dec 27, 2017 10:00
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2house2fly posted:I remember when there were rumours Capaldi was going to have amnesia his whole first series (rumours that were weirdly not dispelled by the early leaks of the first 5 episodes) I was sure the big finale was going to be him vworping into the Day Of The Doctor climax and the "all 13" moment was going to involve him absorbing memories from all his previous incarnations to become himself again. It would have been beautifully terrible Ironically he would remember his time as the 8th doctor, meaning he still wouldn't know who he was.
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Dec 27, 2017 10:50
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LividLiquid posted:Oh, and eveything you've ever expected to support you once your gender changes? Gone. It dumps you out of its door unceremoniously and leaves you grasping at its door, like, "Please. No. What?" I am super sorry to hear this, because I myself was pretty lucky' work, family and friends were all fine with me coming out as trans, but I always need to keep in mind I'm a lucky one. I agree that it's absolutely the right thing to see from Thirteen, and I'm so happy that you could find some strength in it. Yes, it would've been totally valid narratively to have her be really taken aback or uncomfortable with this, but that wasn't what they did. No, she's totally on board with this, more than any previous Doctor save maybe Six. And that's fantastic, for both the girls watching to see that being a girl is something to be excited about, and for the trans and non-binary people to see a pretty goddamn big show depict someone in a similar position to them, and to have them be happy. Sure, it's not the be-all end-all, but it's everything we needed. BTW: If you want some cool people on these forums to talk to about this, come to the trans CCCC thread! We've got a couple non-binary folks, and they're a support network I couldn't have done my own journey without.
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Dec 27, 2017 10:51
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just wanna say love you all <3
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Dec 27, 2017 10:57
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LividLiquid posted:Hey, nerds. I came out as nonbinary two days ago. 
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Dec 27, 2017 11:00
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Box of Bunnies posted:It's not the best serial of the era, but The Space Museum Yeah I strongly considered adding that one to my list, it's a lot of fun and it's got that pretty great cliffhanger of the Doctor and companions finding their immediate future results in their living bodies being turned into waxwork statues but it's an easy story to forget or overlook because most of everything it does well, other stories do better. That said:  
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Dec 27, 2017 12:28
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Crossposting from the scale modeling thread in DIY. Here's a thing I made these last few days, an absurdly huge 10th Doctor TARDIS interior papercraft kit I recently found on Ebay for 2 bucks. There was no scale printed on the outside of the box, so this really surprised me in how much bigger it was on the inside. 
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Dec 27, 2017 13:37
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