|
dont even fink about it posted:Finally George Lucas is here to explain that wars are bad and politicians lie, except--get this--he does it badly, because he is clever. I'm just saying, as cheesy as the presentation of events in Episode II is, the events themselves are entirely believable. People- even important leaders- get whipped up into a war frenzy and don't ask important questions? Two people fall in love despite it not being a well advised relationship on any level? Kid who was raised a slave and separated from his mother at a young age turns out pretty hosed up? Like, I totally get people disliking the prequels because of the dialogue and the acting. But the actual story makes a lot of sense to me. It rings true.
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 06:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 23:06 |
|
|
the jedi rush headlong into an attack on the separatist hideout and proceed in getting owned while yoda makes the decision to take the slave army that was bought and paid for into the fray. by the time the dust settles, the republic finds that it now has an army and of course they just passed the military creation act that makes such a thing possible
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 06:52
|
|
|
Yeah the prequels make sense as a sequence of events, they do not however make sense as a half drama half action romp half weird psychodrama doomed romance. The Jedi Order is just that fuckin' dumb. None of us is as dumb as all of us etc.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 07:03
|
|
|
The prequels are an interesting story of a galactic democracy falling to pieces with the entire cast being either complicit or blind to it, in an era where the mystic Jedi have fallen prey to cold rationality and get used to strongarm constituents, and every hero was some kind of rear end in a top hat or failure who arrived at their Zen tranquility after losing everything. The execution may not be perfect but there is something hilarious about people decrying the prequels as bad subversive and then cheering the good subversiveness of TLJ when the prequels were so good at upsetting what everyone thought they knew that people still get upset about the Jedi not being wandering Ronin. See, I think it comes down to one thing: the prequels lack a single character who is 'in on it'. That is to say exists as the audience window into the world, someone who, say, exists to be the sole voice of reason and decry the failures of the immoral Republic and how the Jedi have lost their way! And so people think that you're supposed to think the Jedi are the good guys and the midichlorians are the truth behind the Force and so on. I also think, as much as I dislike AOTC, the confrontation between Yoda and Dooku is kind of great. It reads like something on a stage, where the actors have to say obvious things to make up for, y'know, being two guys on a stage. It's a much better scene when you cut away the awkward visuals. Likewise, the dialogue throughout the prequels is incredibly non-naturalistic. Like, the Anakin and Obi-Wan stuff in RotS highlights that they're two zealots who are as blind as each other and just shout at each other. They weren't ever exactly best friends! Weird movies. More fun to talk about and study than watch, really.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 07:12
|
|
|
The non-naturalistic dialogue of the prequels makes sense when you consider that not a single one of the featured characters has lived life in conditions that anyone could describe as natural.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 07:30
|
|
|
Just got back from my third viewing, movie is still excellent. The cinematography is insanely good and now I am really sad we will revert to a bunch of bullshit handheld shots and lens flares for Ep IX
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 07:30
|
|
|
Milky Moor posted:See, I think it comes down to one thing: the prequels lack a single character who is 'in on it'. That is to say exists as the audience window into the world, someone who, say, exists to be the sole voice of reason and decry the failures of the immoral Republic and how the Jedi have lost their way!
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 07:35
|
|
Martman posted:Sounds a bit like Palpatine. Maybe less "voice of reason" and more "gently caress these guys, am I right?" Basically. He's chewing that scenery because he pulled the wools over the eyes of every single person in the Republic, including the mystical super warriors who live next door, and it was all so easy. Like, gently caress, if I was Sheev I'd be cackling and making dumb voices and pulling stupid faces because by God you've earned it at that point. "Power! Unlimited power!" is a taunt, a gloat, a victory cry and Palpatine's whole motto. Hell, the Republic sucks and doesn't deserve to survive is the whole reason Dooku - a political idealist - takes the secret of Sidious to the grave instead of blurting it out.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 07:42
|
|
|
Milky Moor posted:They weren't ever exactly best friends! This sentence does not warrant an exclamation point.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 07:51
|
|
|
Star Wars is so named because it's about these wars, and about the galaxy they take place in. The Empire Strikes Back and The Force Awakens are the exceptions, the most Hollywood of the eight, the ones that focus the most strongly on individuals and the least on the world they live in. At the opposite end I would say are Attack of the Clones and Rogue One. The last time I watched The Force Awakens - as part of watching going through the whole series - what struck me strongly right from the very beginning was that the opening crawl was primarily focused on individuals and secondarily on the factions that were at star war, whereas in all the other films (including The Last Jedi), the opening crawl was chiefly about the state of the war and only dropped the names of characters to indicate who's working for whom. This detail is very telling about the biggest complaint I have about that movie, which is that it does not establish what's at stake should the heroes fail. Revenge of the Sith strikes an excellent balance between character-focus and setting-focus, and does so in a way that is very classically structured. If you had a chorus that came on and sang about all the events that took place off of Coruscant instead of cutting away to show them, it could be an ancient Greek stage play. In The Last Jedi, the most common complaint that I see others make is that the scenes on Canto Bight are "pointless." They are not. Those are the parts of the movie that are demonstrating what the star war is actually about. Without that arc, you'd be left with the same problem as The Force Awakens: you don't have a war, you've just got a bunch of people in distinguishable uniforms killing each other because they're enemies.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 07:56
|
|
Yaws posted:This sentence does not warrant an exclamation point. From my point of view it does warrant an exclamation point!
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 07:57
|
|
|
Bleck posted:The non-naturalistic dialogue of the prequels makes sense when you consider that not a single one of the featured characters has lived life in conditions that anyone could describe as natural. The prequels are a pathway to many situations some would consider to be... unnatural. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 08:20
|
|
|
Powered Descent posted:The prequels are a pathway to many situations some would consider to be... unnatural. "Anakin, do you enjoy gladiator holograms?"
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 08:23
|
|
|
Why couldn’t Episode 3 focus entirely on Sheeeeeev for 2 hours instead of everyone else.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 08:28
|
|
|
Bleck posted:The non-naturalistic dialogue of the prequels makes sense when you consider that not a single one of the featured characters has lived life in conditions that anyone could describe as natural. You're right, it's not that Lucas is a terrible writer or director, it's that all the characters have unique life circumstances
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 08:52
|
|
|
I Before E posted:"Anakin, do you enjoy gladiator holograms?" Fucken' LOL
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 08:53
|
|
|
Is there a decent explanation anywhere on the events following return of the jedi leading up to the force awakens.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 09:09
|
|
|
Otto Von Jizzmark posted:Is there a decent explanation anywhere on the events following return of the jedi leading up to the force awakens. No.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 09:11
|
|
|
Otto Von Jizzmark posted:Is there a decent explanation anywhere on the events following return of the jedi leading up to the force awakens. The Alliance to Restore the Republic restored the Republic, and it turned out to be as contradictory and doomed as the last Republic. Some wealthy Imperial revanchists bought a bunch of hardware and kidnapped a bunch of babies to crew it all, and when they were ready, they set out to overthrow the government using terror. Leia scraped together a paramilitary force to try to stop them, since the Republic itself, or at least the powerful interests controlling it, didn't seem to want to do anything about the marauding slavers attempting a coup d'etat. Additional details can be found in some books and video games.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 09:28
|
|
|
I Before E posted:"Anakin, do you enjoy gladiator holograms?" lol
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 09:46
|
|
|
Just watched this movie and I have got to say it was the biggest piece of poo poo I've endured in a long time. I would gas and ban this movie if I had buttons on it. Terrible on all counts. Gas.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 09:59
|
|
|
Smythe posted:Just watched this movie and I have got to say it was the biggest piece of poo poo I've endured in a long time. I would gas and ban this movie if I had buttons on it. Terrible on all counts. Gas. Much like your posting
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 10:10
|
|
|
im reading this thread and i find many of the posts unbelievable. i saw tfa at the wga with a talkback with jj and larry and it was a loving heap of trash. i've read like 100 trashy star wars paperbacks and they were mostly leagues better than this absolute dog poo poo. every aspect of this movie sucked balls. this movie is like burying your face in glitter and jacking off for 2 hours, but not quite, kuz at least if you jacked off you;d have 2ml of cum to show for it. here's my pic of jj, larry, and michael at the wga
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 10:11
|
|
|
i dont really have a huge academic analysis of this pile of garbage, but i can say for certain that there is no artistry in this movie. it reeks of writing by committee. it's got the same odor that infects the transformers franchise. that same vile pallid global market stench. i read scripts for a living and this script, it makes me sick. i nearly fell asleep in my chair watching this festering mountain of burning cash before my eyes. the man next to me in the theatre said he saw the first star wars in this very theatre (chinese theatre) in 76 or whatever the gently caress and he was eager to peep the newest iteration. as the minutes ticked on and the digital reel grew slimmer i couldn't help but the feel bad for him, such high expectations, such hope, all trounced liked a big brother on his little brother's sand castle. no respect for the source material. just terrible. the product of a big board room and the antithesis of the auteurist experience.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 10:17
|
|
|
Smythe posted:antithesis of the auteurist experience. You're adorable. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 10:20
|
|
|
MariusLecter posted:You're adorable. thats true.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 10:23
|
|
|
There's never going to be an auteur Star Wars movie because the only story it can tell is overmatched rebels versus big evil empire, forever, and every new film is just going to hit the reset button in perpetuity.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 10:38
|
|
|
Has anyone been watching SFDebris' behind the scenes look at the prequels? Imo it sheds a lot of light on why those movies turned out like they did. I've found it to be a pretty objective and frank look at what happened, going into some of the technical aspects and real decision making. He also did one for the OT.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 10:42
|
|
|
Smythe posted:i dont really have a huge academic analysis of this pile of garbage, but i can say for certain that there is no artistry in this movie. it reeks of writing by committee. it's got the same odor that infects the transformers franchise. that same vile pallid global market stench. i read scripts for a living and this script, it makes me sick. i nearly fell asleep in my chair watching this festering mountain of burning cash before my eyes. the man next to me in the theatre said he saw the first star wars in this very theatre (chinese theatre) in 76 or whatever the gently caress and he was eager to peep the newest iteration. as the minutes ticked on and the digital reel grew slimmer i couldn't help but the feel bad for him, such high expectations, such hope, all trounced liked a big brother on his little brother's sand castle. no respect for the source material. just terrible. the product of a big board room and the antithesis of the auteurist experience. ok
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 10:45
|
|
|
Milky Moor posted:Likewise, the dialogue throughout the prequels is incredibly non-naturalistic. Like, the Anakin and Obi-Wan stuff in RotS highlights that they're two zealots who are as blind as each other and just shout at each other. They weren't ever exactly best friends! Eh, there are hints of real friendship in the first half of RotS. Pretty much everything up to the hard landing after fighting off Grievous was all I'd wanted from a movie about Anakin Skywalker and Obi Wan Kenobi. It was exactly the sort of out-of-control semi-buddy cop action movie horseshit mixed with Star Wars that I imagined as a kid when Obi Wan wistfully described Anakin as the best starfighter pilot in the galaxy. And also his friend. There was a real sense of history and loss behind those words, and we had no idea what it meant at the time. The prequels should have been more about those two friends and eventual enemies. With Clone Wars we got more about the two actually doing stuff as a team, and I think we needed more movies like that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 11:16
|
|
|
It's pretty crazy that 20 years of expectations were built up from a couple throwaway lines by Alec Guinness looking for some booze money. The man could act.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 11:20
|
|
|
Wait are there people watching Star Wars for naturalism
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 11:25
|
|
fivegears4reverse posted:Eh, there are hints of real friendship in the first half of RotS. Pretty much everything up to the hard landing after fighting off Grievous was all I'd wanted from a movie about Anakin Skywalker and Obi Wan Kenobi. It was exactly the sort of out-of-control semi-buddy cop action movie horseshit mixed with Star Wars that I imagined as a kid when Obi Wan wistfully described Anakin as the best starfighter pilot in the galaxy. And also his friend. There was a real sense of history and loss behind those words, and we had no idea what it meant at the time. My take on their friendship is that of two men who respected each other, had some kind of friendship chemistry, but probably wouldn't have been friends if they weren't both Jedi. They don't particularly like each other in AOTC and while by ROTS they're more friendly, it doesn't seem balanced enough to be a true friendship. Obi-Wan is still the Master and Anakin still chafes at being in his shadow. It feels like half their final showdown is both of them going 'Well, FINALLY...' and drawing their lightsabers on each other. The lines in ANH feel more interesting in light of it being borne of a nostalgia not necessarily backed up by facts. It's like how you might reminisce fondly over the school bully once you have twenty years distance or whatever, particularly if you were also the dude who crippled him.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 11:33
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:There's never going to be an auteur Star Wars movie because the only story it can tell is overmatched rebels versus big evil empire, forever, and every new film is just going to hit the reset button in perpetuity. There's literally no reason this has to be the case, though, and that's what makes the sequels garbage. They were given the perfect opportunity to actually do something different, and Disney aimed instead to "recapture the magic." For all the talk about throwing away the past and forging new paths forward, TFA set itself up be ANH but shiny and "modern" and it shows. TLJ does nothing to break away from this cycle, and Ep 9 likely will continue to flail about in similar fashion. I'm sure whatever elements it borrows from other movies to twist around awkwardly will be praised desperately by people who hate other fans more than they actually enjoy Star Wars. Milky Moor posted:My take on their friendship is that of two men who respected each other, had some kind of friendship chemistry, but probably wouldn't have been friends if they weren't both Jedi. They don't particularly like each other in AOTC and while by ROTS they're more friendly, it doesn't seem balanced enough to be a true friendship. Obi-Wan is still the Master and Anakin still chafes at being in his shadow. It feels like half their final showdown is both of them going 'Well, FINALLY...' and drawing their lightsabers on each other. I totally agree with you on this, and a lot of that definitely is how the prequels were set up. It's honestly kinda sad that Clone Wars did more to deliver on both the actual clone wars themselves, character relationships, and the downfall of certain heroes than the three prequel films did on their own. At the same time, I kinda get what George was going for. He tried to show a lot of different things at once, tie together a lot of plot elements, and also show a time that Obi Wan was clearly revealed to not be completely truthful about even during the original trilogy. Remember the whole "from a certain point of view" bit from RotJ? That's a great way to show the deception that was played on Luke, without completely trashing the idea that Anakin and Obi Wan were actually good friends and once fought side by side in some of the most destructive wars the galaxy had seen.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 11:56
|
|
|
I think Lucas really needed someone to reign him in a bit on his more outlandish (or ambitious) ideas and tighten the focus a bit, and maybe rewrite the dialogue (you can write this poo poo, but you can't say it, like Harrison said). I think he did drop the ball on Anakin and Kenobi's relationship. We mostly saw Anakin chafing under Obi's tutelage, and not the camaraderie and lighter side of their friendship. I think it would have added more weight to their eventual falling out and fighting. Smythe posted:Mad rantings I unironically agree. TFA was garbage, and I am astonished people enjoyed it as much as they did.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 12:22
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:Wait are there people watching Star Wars for naturalism Based on the "breast" wookiepedia page, some people might want Star Wars naturism instead.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 13:19
|
|
|
everything star wars is awesome and its easily the best nerd poo poo franchise out there keep doing more star wars please
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 13:50
|
|
|
fridge corn posted:everything star wars is awesome and its easily the best nerd poo poo franchise out there
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 14:03
|
|
|
Smythe posted:i dont really have a huge academic analysis of this pile of garbage, but i can say for certain that there is no artistry in this movie. it reeks of writing by committee. it's got the same odor that infects the transformers franchise. that same vile pallid global market stench. i read scripts for a living and this script, it makes me sick. i nearly fell asleep in my chair watching this festering mountain of burning cash before my eyes. the man next to me in the theatre said he saw the first star wars in this very theatre (chinese theatre) in 76 or whatever the gently caress and he was eager to peep the newest iteration. as the minutes ticked on and the digital reel grew slimmer i couldn't help but the feel bad for him, such high expectations, such hope, all trounced liked a big brother on his little brother's sand castle. no respect for the source material. just terrible. the product of a big board room and the antithesis of the auteurist experience. Star Wars is mostly terrible and I'm glad it now makes you miserable.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 14:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 23:06 |
|
|
fridge corn posted:everything star wars is awesome and its easily the best nerd poo poo franchise out there Haha, look at this dork, unironically enjoying star wars. What a tool. Let's point and laugh at his poor taste. Hah!
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 14:39
|
|