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No Mods No Masters posted:No, but you can read a book about captain phlasma's backstory??????????? Hold on... Someone just stapled all the Brienne scenes from Game of Thrones together and replaced "horse" with "space-ship"!
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Dec 27, 2017 07:47
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An old question I have: why is it only Obi-Wan and Yoda knew how to become ghosts? Why didn't other Jedi before Qui-Gon know how to become ghosts? I know the in-universe explanation, I want to know why George Lucas chose to do it this way.
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Dec 27, 2017 07:52
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My only you from this movie was finding BF2 on sale for less than 30% of its regular price due to some sale.
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Dec 27, 2017 07:54
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Kurzon posted:An old question I have: why is it only Obi-Wan and Yoda knew how to become ghosts? Why didn't other Jedi before Qui-Gon know how to become ghosts? I know the in-universe explanation, I want to know why George Lucas chose to do it this way. It's a contrast to Anakin's obsession with stopping those he loves from dying. Yoda's advice about letting others go and join the Force, while it came at the wrong time in the wrong context, was basically right- and even in the midst of their greatest failure, at least some of the Jedi discover a kind of salvation.
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Dec 27, 2017 08:07
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Why on Earth should Holdo explain everything to Poe? They area a military organization and you don't have a successful one of those if any random soldier can demand answers and explinations from the brass.
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Dec 27, 2017 08:07
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Karnegal posted:Why on Earth should Holdo explain everything to Poe? They area a military organization and you don't have a successful one of those if any random soldier can demand answers and explinations from the brass. Because that's how it is in all the other movies.
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Dec 27, 2017 08:31
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Karnegal posted:Why on Earth should Holdo explain everything to Poe? They area a military organization and you don't have a successful one of those if any random soldier can demand answers and explinations from the brass. They're trying to evacuate the entire capital ship on dozens of transports so expectations of secrecy seem a bit strange. Plus he's a highly skilled captain so he could probably help.
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Dec 27, 2017 08:33
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Total Meatlove posted:The bombing of Dresden was a crime against humanity though? Ahem. Sir, this is the Star Wars thread. My point, regardless of how clumsy or apt my analogy is that starkiller base is not the same narratively or in plot terms as the death star. The Fo are not fascists. The resistance are not any kind of leftists. Sinding Johansson fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 08:43
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Karnegal posted:Why on Earth should Holdo explain everything to Poe? They area a military organization and you don't have a successful one of those if any random soldier can demand answers and explinations from the brass.
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Dec 27, 2017 08:49
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Kurzon posted:An old question I have: why is it only Obi-Wan and Yoda knew how to become ghosts? Why didn't other Jedi before Qui-Gon know how to become ghosts? I know the in-universe explanation, I want to know why George Lucas chose to do it this way. They quasi explain this at the end of the Clone Wars cartoon.
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Dec 27, 2017 08:53
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Why was what Admiral Holdo did a good thing but when Finn tried it it’s a bad thing?
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Dec 27, 2017 09:59
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Doctor Spaceman posted:They're trying to evacuate the entire capital ship on dozens of transports so expectations of secrecy seem a bit strange. Plus he's a highly skilled captain so he could probably help. It''s not about this particular instance though. You maintain discipline so that when you give an order it's followed. Poe got demoted for not following orders. You don't turn around and reward him for similar behavior. There are certainly planning phases and people get to question stuff there. It seems clear that Poe was in that group at the start of the film, but then he got demoted and lost those privileges. Poe is a hotshot ace fighter; the transports seemed like clunky slow ships, so I don't think there is good evidence that Poe piloting one was going to be a big boon.
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Dec 27, 2017 10:01
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Kart Barfunkel posted:Why was what Admiral Holdo did a good thing but when Finn tried it it’s a bad thing? I think this is an inconsistency in the plot. We had 3 suicide runs in the film and 2 were good but one was randomly bad. It would have been way smarter to make it clear that Finn's attack was doomed to failure but he was too obsessed with hitting the bad guys to pull out. That may have been the intent -there are a couple things that suggest it was- but if so, it was too ambiguous, especially if you want to hang a big lesson on it.
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Dec 27, 2017 10:05
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just another posted:
"...ignite interest... concrete action and bold leadership..." You do realize that you're writing in the language of marketing and corporate bureaucratese, right? You have been blinded by the power of Capitalism. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 10:22
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Koirhor posted:They quasi explain this at the end of the Clone Wars cartoon.
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Dec 27, 2017 10:37
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Sinding Johansson posted:Ahem. Sir, this is the Star Wars thread. My point, regardless of how clumsy or apt my analogy is that starkiller base is not the same narratively or in plot terms as the death star. The Fo are not fascists. The resistance are not any kind of leftists. The resistance are antifa so they are coded as being leftist, also they are good and cool and caring so also leftists. I don't know how you're getting that the child soldiers nazi no-aliens-allowed FO aren't fascist.
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Dec 27, 2017 11:00
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Kurzon posted:An old question I have: why is it only Obi-Wan and Yoda knew how to become ghosts? Why didn't other Jedi before Qui-Gon know how to become ghosts? I know the in-universe explanation, I want to know why George Lucas chose to do it this way. Because part of the point of the prequels was to show the Jedi had lost their way. Qui-Gon was meant to be a maverick who didn't fully agree with the Order and so succeeded where other Jedi of his era failed.
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Dec 27, 2017 11:01
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Karnegal posted:Why on Earth should Holdo explain everything to Poe? They area a military organization and you don't have a successful one of those if any random soldier can demand answers and explinations from the brass. They also were down to maybe 500 people even before they abandoned two ships. They were effectively on the ropes, and barely an organization at that point. Poe wasn't the only person who didn't trust Holdo, which keeps getting ignored because it's inconvenient for defenders of that particular garbage decision to think about how Laura Dern played another lovely commander in a movie filled to the brim with them. There was no good reason for her to keep a secret not just from Poe, but from enough of the crew to even allow for the shortest mutiny in recent film history to play out.
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Dec 27, 2017 11:27
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I know that Johnson inherited a steaming pile of poo poo from Abrams, but what I would have liked to see is them elaborate a bit on Kylo's fall. How did Snoke "seduce" him, why was Luke unaware or unable to do something, was it a gradual thing or something that happened overnight? Elaborate! What exactly made Luke so convinced he was a lost cause, to the point he'd literally want to kill him?
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Dec 27, 2017 11:34
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Vitamin P posted:The resistance are antifa so they are coded as being leftist, also they are good and cool and caring so also leftists. I don't know how you're getting that the child soldiers nazi no-aliens-allowed FO aren't fascist. The resistance are not actually cool and caring. They're idiots who leave children into slavery so that they can go back to protecting their military assets. The First Order are a propagandistic vision of revolutionary leftism, just like how the Empire was a propagandistic vision of the Soviet Union. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 11:39
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fivegears4reverse posted:They also were down to maybe 500 people even before they abandoned two ships. They were effectively on the ropes, and barely an organization at that point. I mean, they clearly weren't thinking of themselves that way. If they were people would have been posing a "the rebellion is dead let's disband and go into hiding" argument. That's not what happened though. They just had a different idea of how to save the rebellion.
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Dec 27, 2017 11:43
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McCloud posted:I know that Johnson inherited a steaming pile of poo poo from Abrams, but what I would have liked to see is them elaborate a bit on Kylo's fall. How did Snoke "seduce" him, why was Luke unaware or unable to do something, was it a gradual thing or something that happened overnight? Elaborate! What exactly made Luke so convinced he was a lost cause, to the point he'd literally want to kill him? I don’t know much about bang bang shoot shoot in space movie saga as some internet people do, but I’m sure that they made like nine hours of cinema to explain the origins of Vader, about 18 years after the release of the final film of a trilogy? I’m not worried about a lack of elaboration. Boy gone turn bad. More popcorn please. It was fine. Just a bit long.
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Dec 27, 2017 11:48
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Everyone on the Poe defense force is dumb as gently caress. Dude should have been in the brig when he had his tantrum and called Holdo a traitor. I wish the poo poo had blown up more in his face instead of killing hundreds of other rebels. The Space Leia scene should have been shot differently. Same closeup on Leia's face, but with a subtle tint to it, pull back to reveal she's in a glowy field, then she opens her eyes and pulls herself back in. Show the audience that she's protecting herself, not breathing in space.
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Dec 27, 2017 11:50
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You mean to tell me that while they were evacuating their secret rebel base, they had time to give C-3PO another gold arm?!
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Dec 27, 2017 12:48
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McCloud posted:I know that Johnson inherited a steaming pile of poo poo from Abrams, but what I would have liked to see is them elaborate a bit on Kylo's fall. How did Snoke "seduce" him, why was Luke unaware or unable to do something, was it a gradual thing or something that happened overnight? Elaborate! What exactly made Luke so convinced he was a lost cause, to the point he'd literally want to kill him? The thing is, the story told on screen didn't leave out any information that makes the plot hard to follow or anything and if you want more detail star wars is the property that is most willing to sell you that. If you want a 6 book series that follows the history of darth vader's gloves or books that dive into the whole history of the jizz band or prequel movies that go back and explain exactly darth vader is or exactly how they got the plans to the death star or whatever you are going to get it, as much as you can eat forever. I'm not saying star wars holds out information to sell it to you later but if you are a person that wants every detail in depth about every single thing that ever appears on screen for a second then star wars is the right series for you. Willrow Hood got a whole backstory and he's on screen for like 2 seconds.
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Dec 27, 2017 13:48
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Ok so I assume this has been discussed before but I don't want to dig through the thread. Rose and Finn are told to find the code breaker who has a red blossom on the Monaco planet, they see a dude with the red blossom pin but they don't get to him, BDT offers to help them, they decide to give up on getting to the guy with the actual pin that whatsherface says they can identify him by because BDT opens their cell and go on with their plan. So like, BDT was a plant the whole time and they just went with him due to time constraints or was he the actual code breaker they were told about but for some reason someone else had the red blossom pin? Star Wars is dumb as hell. When I went in watching it, I was still thinking "Wait so like the Rebels who beat the Empire are now the Resistence despite beating the Empire?" because they never loving explained that initially and this whole new series is a clusterfuck but I'll just watch it anyways because bleh.
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Dec 27, 2017 14:04
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7c Nickel posted:Everyone on the Poe defense force is dumb as gently caress. Dude should have been in the brig when he had his tantrum and called Holdo a traitor. I wish the poo poo had blown up more in his face instead of killing hundreds of other rebels. It’s uh, not just Poe who mutinies you realize right. Why is it, do you think, that enough folks—including Billie Lourd—are freaked out enough about Holdo to mutiny? It’s because Holdo is an incredibly bad leader. There’s an immense amount of talk about how Poe gets everyone killed because of BDT (when it’s in fact Finn and Rose but hey) but for all of that I have yet to hear a defensible reason for Holdo to have withheld something as simple as, “we’re heading to salt hoth, once we’re lose we can hop into the transports because the FO isn’t monitoring for ships that small” She withheld it from not just Poe, but from everyone assembled at her briefing. Why? Why not give them something? We get multiple shots of Billie Lourd looking like, “oh gently caress this poo poo”. Poe is just the most vocal. Actors around the scene where Poe is flipping out are playing it as, “finally!! Someone’s telling the truth here!”
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Dec 27, 2017 14:14
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Dr.Radical posted:Ok so I assume this has been discussed before but I don't want to dig through the thread. Rose and Finn are told to find the code breaker who has a red blossom on the Monaco planet, they see a dude with the red blossom pin but they don't get to him, BDT offers to help them, they decide to give up on getting to the guy with the actual pin that whatsherface says they can identify him by because BDT opens their cell and go on with their plan. So like, BDT was a plant the whole time and they just went with him due to time constraints or was he the actual code breaker they were told about but for some reason someone else had the red blossom pin? Star Wars is dumb as hell. When I went in watching it, I was still thinking "Wait so like the Rebels who beat the Empire are now the Resistence despite beating the Empire?" because they never loving explained that initially and this whole new series is a clusterfuck but I'll just watch it anyways because bleh. don't overthink it, there was just more than one good code breaker on a planet
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Dec 27, 2017 14:15
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Dr.Radical posted:So like, BDT was a plant the whole time and they just went with him due to time constraints or was he the actual code breaker they were told about but for some reason someone else had the red blossom pin? No. They couldn't get to the pin guy because they were in jail. In jail, they met another codebreaker and since he helped them escape they figured "good enough" and then when they got caught he immediately sold them out because he doesn't give a poo poo about the Resistance. He wasn't some First Order deep cover operative, he was just a dude. ChickenMedium fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 14:17
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Friends, friends. They can both be fuckups. Even if Poe should be disciplined and probably shot for the mutiny, Holdo had nothing to gain by withholding that information from a guy that has SHOWN to be reckless and that could possibly endanger her plans if left alone, especially considering he was a pretty high-ranking officer in the Rebellion. There were no suspicions regarding him or anyone else for that matter, so you can't even play it as "well, there might've been spies".
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Dec 27, 2017 14:17
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Dr.Radical posted:Ok so I assume this has been discussed before but I don't want to dig through the thread. Rose and Finn are told to find the code breaker who has a red blossom on the Monaco planet, they see a dude with the red blossom pin but they don't get to him, BDT offers to help them, they decide to give up on getting to the guy with the actual pin that whatsherface says they can identify him by because BDT opens their cell and go on with their plan. So like, BDT was a plant the whole time and they just went with him due to time constraints or was he the actual code breaker they were told about but for some reason someone else had the red blossom pin? Star Wars is dumb as hell. When I went in watching it, I was still thinking "Wait so like the Rebels who beat the Empire are now the Resistence despite beating the Empire?" because they never loving explained that initially and this whole new series is a clusterfuck but I'll just watch it anyways because bleh. They decide to go with the super sketchy guy because he SEEMS impressive and is right there, but it backfires when he get's caught trying to get the door open and then sells them out because he sees an opportunity to get paid anyway. Waffles Inc. posted:It’s uh, not just Poe who mutinies you realize right. Why is it, do you think, that enough folks—including Billie Lourd—are freaked out enough about Holdo to mutiny? Because he's a hot headed idiot that's just been demoted for insubordination and immediately get's in her face because he feels he's entitled to command. gently caress him. Also there's nothing in the movie to support the idea that "he really saved them because the dreadnought would have caught up and killed them after the jump."
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Dec 27, 2017 14:20
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7c Nickel posted:Because he's a hot headed idiot that's just been demoted for insubordination and immediately get's in her face because he feels he's entitled to command. gently caress him. Also there's nothing in the movie to support the idea that "he really saved them because the dreadnought would have caught up and killed them after the jump." Poe has been trusted with plenty of important information before (eg TFA) and the evacuation plan is going to be impossible to keep secret for long and doesn't even need to be kept a secret. Dias posted:Friends, friends. They can both be fuckups.
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Dec 27, 2017 14:23
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7c Nickel posted:They decide to go with the super sketchy guy because he SEEMS impressive and is right there, but it backfires when he get's caught trying to get the door open and then sells them out because he sees an opportunity to get paid anyway. Well there’s the fact that thI dreadnaught is called a fleet killer and is about 3 seconds from killing them but let’s just leave that What you’re implying and the way Laura Dern plays keeping the info from Poe is spite; she’s got an axe to grind, even if she does end up liking him in the end enough to praise him to Leia. Is leadership based on “gently caress that guy” good? Also she doesn’t just keep her plan from Poe, but from enough people to cause a mutiny Is it too much to ask of our military leadership to give us some indication that they have SOME sort of sane plan? Anything at all? And yeah, they’re absolutely both fuckups.
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Dec 27, 2017 14:27
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ChickenMedium posted:No. They couldn't get to the pin guy because they were in jail. In jail, they met another codebreaker and since he helped them escape they figured "good enough" and then when they got caught he immediately sold them out because he doesn't give a poo poo about the Resistance. He wasn't some First Order deep cover operative, he was just a dude. That's dumb as hell. They didn't figure to try to get to the original dude who apparently knew Wise Glasses Lady after being broken out of jail? Like I get that they kind of were forced to go with BDT at the end but between getting out of jail and getting onto the ship he and BB8 stole, they didn't even try to get to Red Blossom Guy.
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Dec 27, 2017 14:27
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:The thing is, the story told on screen didn't leave out any information that makes the plot hard to follow or anything and if you want more detail star wars is the property that is most willing to sell you that. If you want a 6 book series that follows the history of darth vader's gloves or books that dive into the whole history of the jizz band or prequel movies that go back and explain exactly darth vader is or exactly how they got the plans to the death star or whatever you are going to get it, as much as you can eat forever. Oh I don't need it for the backstories sake. As you said, the broad strokes of the story is made available because we're told about this by the characters. I do however it would add some weight to the scene where Luke is standing over Kylo, if we actually see why he might think this kid is going to be a danger, instead of how it was presented to us, which is a middle-aged man about to murder his nephew in his sleep. Edit: Actually that's not strictly true, I would like to know how Snoke managed to seduce young Kylo under the nose of Skywalker. He clearly knew Kylo was being influenced, but apparently his only reaction was to euthanize him? I feel like for such a pivotal moment we could use a few more details. Presumably there aren't any because the writers didn't actually bother filling in the details. McCloud fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 14:29
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Dias posted:Friends, friends. They can both be fuckups. There were people trying to bail in escape pods, they don't need to be spies for information to leak.
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Dec 27, 2017 14:40
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Kart Barfunkel posted:Why was what Admiral Holdo did a good thing but when Finn tried it it’s a bad thing? only women can be inspirational. It's Their Turn
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Dec 27, 2017 15:10
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it would have been real easy to dot this i if there was actually a traitor on the ship that got them followed through hyperspace, but instead they had to have the tumb Press X to Follow Rebels through Hyperspace button...so that there could be a Casino Arc Casino Arc Ruins Everything
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Dec 27, 2017 15:11
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Poe represents the Patriarchy. Bold womyn like Holdo and Leia don't need to tell him anything because he's a bigoted vaginaphobe. That he rebels and tries to start an uprising is just further evidence of his toxic masculinity.
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Dec 27, 2017 15:17
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I sometimes wonder if Holdo isn't some sort of reference to the SJW movement, what with the purple hair and being in a position of power as a woman dealing with a stubborn entitled testosterone jerk, but then I shake my head and swear that I'm overthinking it, but wouldn't it be funny if she was?
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Dec 27, 2017 15:56
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