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Nosfereefer posted:Centrism is basically nazism when you think about it. it's not and i'm not here to call centrists nazis, they are just moron liberals who don't understand the reality of the world we live in nazis are nazis leftists are leftists and centrist bootlickers are centrist bootlickers. the rules aren't there to preserve fairness I'm sure even abraham lincoln had botany and lightning knight letting him know that the other guys are going to be really mad if he frees the slaves and that getting rid of slavery isn't really in the "spirit" of the US political system. Plus, he got shot later, so clearly he really pissed some people off and it wasnt worth it these people don't want to do good things, they want to "win" the "game" of politics with as little effort and risk as possible, it's essentially modern corporate strategy applied to their political fever dreams, a world where Obama was respected by the other side because he played from inside the lines and there wasn't massive blowback from the Democratic base because Obama did nothing. 90s Rememberer fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 14:40
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Cerebral Bore posted:Yeah, real rude that the people you basically call nazis for no apparent reason don't give you enough respect. That’s not what’s bothering me. I’m just worried that the next generation of the left seems to be aping the alt-right in being “ironic” (but not really) assholes. There’s more to being on the left than wanting to shoot right-wingers. Most people here seem to reject any way to make the world better if it doesn’t involve bloody vengeance against the right. Me, I want to see the world better. More equal. I don’t want to see Pol Pot’s purges. And I’m worried that you guys are being “alt-right ironic” (ie not ironic) when you say you do.
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Dec 27, 2017 14:58
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BarbarianElephant posted:That’s not what’s bothering me. I’m just worried that the next generation of the left seems to be aping the alt-right in being “ironic” (but not really) assholes. who's being ironic? you by calling the left "reddit nazis"?
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Dec 27, 2017 15:01
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BarbarianElephant posted:That’s not what’s bothering me. I’m just worried that the next generation of the left seems to be aping the alt-right in being “ironic” (but not really) assholes. So what you're saying is that you're the big-brained dude who wants good things and everybody further to the left of you is secretly lusting for genocide? Like, is this some kind of self-parody or what?
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Dec 27, 2017 15:04
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On the other hand; all of recorded history. People in the position that the 1% occupy today have some pretty strong indicators that they won't ever give up that position short of giving up their heads to guillotines. Sure you can collapse the economy and destabilize the nation to get some reforms in place that might curb their excesses. Then those people on top will instantly go back to working towards undoing those reforms to profitably destabilize the nation all over again in a few decades.
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Dec 27, 2017 15:08
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tbqh we're going to need a replacement for all that valuable prison labor and i can't think of a better group of people than the political elite to replace the 2 million+ people currently incarcerated
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Dec 27, 2017 15:10
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BarbarianElephant posted:Most people here seem to reject any way to make the world better if it doesn’t involve bloody vengeance against the right. Please stop extrapolating what you think "most people here" are like based on the thread's craziest posters.
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Dec 27, 2017 15:11
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i like that we're pretending printing a trillion dollar coin to end the debt ceiling brinkmanship is "bloody vengeance" meanwhile Democrats and Republicans pursue policies that kill thousands of americans and ruin the lives of millions more
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Dec 27, 2017 15:12
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I like that the important thing here is making sure that no right-wingers are inconvenienced during the socialist revolution.
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Dec 27, 2017 15:14
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Cerebral Bore posted:I like that the important thing here is making sure that no right-wingers are inconvenienced during the socialist revolution. actually a socialist revolution would play directly into the PR of the Republican party and thusly is not worth pursuing also it's against the spirit of the US political system
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Dec 27, 2017 15:15
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Lightning Knight posted:You are remarkably disingenuous, and it's hilarious that FDR is your role model when what he did...didn't go far enough to end the Great Depression Sorry, I have to circle back to this, are you claiming that FDR didn't end the Great Depression?
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Dec 27, 2017 15:16
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he almost did and then it stalled out in... 37? 38? over deficit hawkery
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Dec 27, 2017 15:27
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:he almost did and then it stalled out in... 37? 38? over deficit hawkery And then the country stayed in the Great Depression forever? To this day?
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Dec 27, 2017 15:28
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Pretty sure the argument would be that WW2 caused the end of the Great Depression rather than FDR's New Deal.
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Dec 27, 2017 15:30
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self unaware posted:a recipe for the next great depression? you mean exactly what is happening right now? that's what you're scared of? yeah i didn't know what i expected, why the gently caress am i trying to have an actual conversation with one of the dumbest goddamn people on this site.
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Dec 27, 2017 15:35
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sirtommygunn posted:Pretty sure the argument would be that WW2 caused the end of the Great Depression rather than FDR's New Deal. Did I miss an alternate timeline where FDR wasn't President during WW2?
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Dec 27, 2017 15:36
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It wasn't part of FDRs domestic agenda, which in fact did not go far enough to kill the Great Depression. There are lots of reasons for that, including among them that FDR was not in fact a god king able to pass whatever he wanted. Crediting FDR for ww2's effects seems kinda pointless.... TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 15:39
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botany posted:yeah i didn't know what i expected, why the gently caress am i trying to have an actual conversation with one of the dumbest goddamn people on this site. lol at pretending like having a "politically independent" (there is no such thing) federal reserve is somehow preventing the next great depression and then getting upset when you're called out on it but really, i enjoyed your "it's against the spirit of the US political system" as a legitimate reason to not do things, do you think getting rid of slavery was against the spirit of the US political system? should we not have done that? TheDeadlyShoe posted:It wasn't part of FDRs domestic agenda, which in fact did not go far enough to kill the Great Depression. There are lots of reasons for that, including among them that FDR was not in fact a god king able to pass whatever he wanted. nobody is here to say FDR is perfect, just that he was willing to do things that fell outside of the decorum lane that Lightning Knight and botany are insistent we must stay in if we want to have "good" political progress like Barack "Trump's inauguration brought me serenity" Obama 90s Rememberer fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 15:40
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WampaLord posted:Did I miss an alternate timeline where FDR wasn't President during WW2? FDR did well until 1937, when he made the mistake of cutting back spending in order to balance the budget and this basically derailed the recovery. Then WW2 happened and basically forced the government to do what it should have done instead of worrying about the deficit. So the point isn't that FDR didn't end the depression, it's that he almost hosed up while doing so.
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Dec 27, 2017 15:47
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Cerebral Bore posted:FDR did well until 1937, when he made the mistake of cutting back spending in order to balance the budget and this basically derailed the recovery. Then WW2 happened and basically forced the government to do what it should have done instead of worrying about the deficit. Thank you for giving enough nuance to actually complete the argument.
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Dec 27, 2017 15:51
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BarbarianElephant posted:That’s not what’s bothering me. I’m just worried that the next generation of the left seems to be aping the alt-right in being “ironic” (but not really) assholes. Weird. This whole time I thought it was the radical center that wanted everyone who doesn't work as a management consultant and live in a tech hub to die of exposure or beneath their boot.
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Dec 27, 2017 16:28
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Hey guys, a cop just beat the poo poo out of a 17 year old kid in Troy Alabama last week and there will be a rally for him on the 30th. Help me signal boost and get the word out on social media: https://twitter.com/ttownmike/status/946024229337817088
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Dec 27, 2017 17:00
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self unaware posted:imagine if there was a way that Obama could have sidestepped the idiot show in congress and headed off the problem? oh wait, I just described it to you but you're literally bringing up things like "well it wouldn't energize the base" as a serious rebuttal to solving the debt ceiling crisis unilaterally. The biggest problem with the trillion dollar coin is that if the system is so fundamentally hosed that it sounds like a good idea, it's probably time to just burn everything down and start over rather than desperately searching for one weird trick to circumvent a broken government, Congress HATES it! The GOP held a gun to the US economy's head and threatened to shoot, but the Dems were so busy whining and proposing stupid tricks and concessions that they actually let the GOP turn that into electoral gains. It's not just one party that's broken. self unaware posted:nobody is here to say FDR is perfect, just that he was willing to do things that fell outside of the decorum lane that Lightning Knight and botany are insistent we must stay in if we want to have "good" political progress like Barack "Trump's inauguration brought me serenity" Obama In the end, FDR's greatest foe was the centrists in his own party, who teamed up with the defeated opposition to thwart his plans.
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Dec 27, 2017 17:03
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Trabisnikof posted:So apparently Obama shouldn't have limited the executive's ability to blow up weddings outside a declared war, Obama shouldn't have limited the executive's ability to jail citizens and others for years without a trial, and Obama shouldn't have limited the executive's ability to spy on Americans without judicial oversight. Instead he should have given those powers to the people! Main Paineframe posted:The biggest problem with the trillion dollar coin is that if the system is so fundamentally hosed that it sounds like a good idea, it's probably time to just burn everything down and start over rather than desperately searching for one weird trick to circumvent a broken government, Congress HATES it!
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Dec 27, 2017 17:48
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WampaLord posted:And then the country stayed in the Great Depression forever? To this day? I havent been happy since.
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Dec 27, 2017 18:01
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This thread is hard to keep up with.Inescapable Duck posted:It is kind of striking when it becomes clear that liberals and white supremacists unthinkingly accept the same assumptions about what whiteness and 'white people' are, that they operate within the same paradigm and language that erases national and historical identities in favour of what's fashionable among Americans. botany posted:god you're thick. this isn't about decorum, this is about preserving the political isolation of the federal reserve. imagine what would happen if a republican president had the ability to push economic policy without having to go through congress, without the fed being able to influence the catastrophic decisions they would make. letting the executive make monetary policy directly is a recipe for your next great depression. imagine if one of those neoliberal democratic presidents you're so worried about could make monetary policy through fiat. i mean, if you somehow have a magic wand that guarantees that from now on, only socialists will reign in the US, i'm ok with the dissolution of the separation of powers, but in the mean time, here on earth, let's maybe not. 
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Dec 27, 2017 19:04
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Rockopolis posted:Isn't this effectively the current state of affairs? The President appoints the board of the Federal Reserve but doesn't directly tell them what to do. Also, the way QE/Fed Funds work isn't just the Federal Government printing its own money, QE usually flows through financial institutions as an intermediary (in the case of the crisis the Fed essentially printed money to buy a bunch of MBS). The argument obviously is if the president or congress had direct control over the money supply it would become "monetary mob rule" or of course the argument against that is deflation, crumbling infrastructure, and political instability. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 19:07
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self unaware posted:these people don't want to do good things, they want to "win" the "game" of politics It's more like they want to do politics "the right way" according to Aaron Sorkin, and if that gets millions of people killed, well they can at least have a clear conscience, being only indirectly responsible for it. Kilroy fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 19:23
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Have you  leftists ever considered that if we use the apparatus of the state to effect policy, then the Republicans might some day do the same? 
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Dec 27, 2017 19:28
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I know West Wing is this thread's go to gripe, but did anyone watch Graves? Saw a couple episodes on a long plane ride, it was Nick Nolte as basically an aged not-Reagan regretting most of his life and also not getting along with modern Republicans. Cancelled like a week ago, so I'm pretty sure that like Alpha House, it was dealt a mortal blow thousands of years ago by the 2016 election.Ardennes posted:The President appoints the board of the Federal Reserve but doesn't directly tell them what to do. Also, the way QE/Fed Funds work isn't just the Federal Government printing its own money, QE usually flows through financial institutions as an intermediary (in the case of the crisis the Fed essentially printed money to buy a bunch of MBS).  So it's more of a decision between being locked into lovely policy with the current system, or just rolling the dice and going for monetary mob rule.
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Dec 27, 2017 20:06
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Fluff, your link is broken. https://twitter.com/ttownmike/status/946024229337817088 Also I had EBT in MI. Trying to renew it right now. AMA.
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Dec 27, 2017 20:10
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What's EBT Like there? How is it different? Edit Where do you go for the best lobster and steak? 
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Dec 27, 2017 20:14
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Koalas March posted:Also I had EBT in MI. Trying to renew it right now. AMA. Have you tried pulling yourself up by your bootstraps?
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Dec 27, 2017 20:14
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Dead Reckoning posted:Have you tried pulling yourself up by your bootstraps? I literally don't have boots right now. Plan on getting some but it's been too cold to go out. I was running around on xmas and it felt like my toes were going to fall off.
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Dec 27, 2017 20:19
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Rockopolis posted:What's EBT Like there? How is it different? EBT in MI is just on a card. You can only spend it on cold food and I don't get any cash back or anything like that. I have never bought lobster (not my thing) but I have bought sirloin for burgers on like 4th of July and poo poo. I make a lot of pasta and rice. Carb loading is good if you're only eating once or twice a day. When I'm really "splurging" I like to get bagels and blueberry cream cheese. They have fresh sushi but it's not worth spending like 20% of my food money on one meal.
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Dec 27, 2017 20:22
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Looks like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Run from the police or other predators and they will treat you like prey.
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Dec 27, 2017 20:24
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baquerd posted:Looks like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Run from the police or other predators and they will treat you like prey. Yeah but I can't really blame a kid for his flight or fight response kicking in. Especially cause you know that the kid had to know if he stopped or not he was hosed either way. At least (in his mind, probably) he had the chance to run and hide.
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Dec 27, 2017 20:26
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Koalas March posted:Fluff, your link is broken. He’s incredibly lucky to be alive, as horrible as that is. I hope his ability to testify will help in the case.
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Dec 27, 2017 20:32
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Koalas March posted:Yeah but I can't really blame a kid for his flight or fight response kicking in. Especially cause you know that the kid had to know if he stopped or not he was hosed either way. At least (in his mind, probably) he had the chance to run and hide. It's pretty ironic that we can't give kids the appropriate training for these situations because of parental and societal outrage at 1. putting them in intense situations that trigger the response and 2. acknowledging that governmental authority figures are to be feared more than respected.
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Dec 27, 2017 20:32
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baquerd posted:It's pretty ironic that we can't give kids the appropriate training for these situations because of parental and societal outrage at 1. putting them in intense situations that trigger the response and 2. acknowledging that governmental authority figures are to be feared more than respected. I think that (for most of the black community at least) we have this talk with our kids. My (white) mom had it with me. I think I was about 11. She told me about how she watched cops beat on some dude outside of a concert and said "I couldn't call for help. Who would I call? the police?" and it was the 80s so it's not like she even had a cell or could take video or anything. I remember my aunt (who is also biracial) telling me that i'm light skinned but to the cops I'll always be black. And not to trust black cops either because they can be just as bad if not worse. Then I was actually arrested at 16 for being black with some other black kids. We were minding our business waiting for our classes to start. Having a gun drawn on you out of nowhere is loving terrifying. I didn't even notice the badge at first. For a second I thought we were getting jacked.
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Dec 27, 2017 20:42
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