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The whole Poe vs. Holdo thing is just kind of poo poo all around. Poe was magically made super stupid compared to the previous movie to make the whole conflict even possible. In TFA he's a smartass secret agent man with a plane you give impossible jobs to because he can just figure poo poo out on the fly. He's explicitly someone you trust with secret and dangerous jobs, and we just saw him be good at his job. However, he's not depicted as being a manic moron who jumps straight to gross insubordination that should get him imprisoned or shot. Which he totally does in TLJ. Poe being turned into a giant baby tantrum-man isn't the only problem though. "Captain" and "Commander" are words used to convey authority and importance, even if Star Wars has never shown much interest in being pedantic about titles have precedence over others. You don't need to be a military sperg to see that they frame Poe as someone who has been given authority with those titles. Nothing about this setup suggests he's just a grunt you expect nothing but blind obedience from, even when he's busted he's just "demoted" to another title that has the exact same implications for a layperson - of being in charge of things. Poe has been presented as exactly the kind of person who would be at the briefing scene on the plan if there was one in this movie. Going all the way back to A New Hope, main characters in Star Wars are presented the plan, and that presentation includes explaining how and why various steps are necessary and why they are expected to work. In real life (and movies) you might tell soldiers to just shut the gently caress up and obey at some point, but your commanders and poo poo are supposed to know what the plan is and WHY they need to do certain things, because in real life (and movies) the plan usually goes to poo poo, so the people you've given authority to need to know that sort of thing to function. So both in the context of how Star Wars shows the rebel military or whatever works, and just basic common sense, Holdo going out of her way to not explain what the gently caress they're doing and why to Poe (and all the other people, a bunch of whom decided to mutiny for the exact same reason he did) is still dumb as poo poo.
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Dec 27, 2017 16:13
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Woden posted:There were people trying to bail in escape pods, they don't need to be spies for information to leak. I think that if people are terrified enough about their situation that they are willing to try to desert by taking an escape pod out into the middle of nowhere, space where the only ships around are either the one they just escaped from or the giant FO fleet trying to kill them, it's probably in Holdo's best interests to let some people in on the plan. Come to think of it, she actually seemed to let almost everyone in on the plan EXCEPT Poe's mutiny squad, considering that they managed to fuel, prep, and load like ten billion transports under the noses of Poe's mutineers.
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Dec 27, 2017 16:13
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That’s the very thing this thread will talk about until the end of time I think, is whether the film does enough to show Holdo to be unambiguously correct and virtuous in her keeping her plan hidden from the crew Ultimately as much as I think it would’ve been great to see an unambiguous takedown of Poe’s archetype as a stand in for lovely men, Johnson hedges so much that it completely muddies everything: - Billie Lourd is cut to regularly during all of the Holdo stuff; she’s an incredibly visible supporter of the mutiny and Poe - It doesn’t seem reasonable, given the context, for Holdo to withhold the way she does, from anyone - Leia and Holdo commend the very qualities that a full on condemnation of Poe would require There just isn’t enough to support it beyond “a man disobeys a woman” which if that’s the bar needed to be cleared for social commentary in art then yeesh Edit: i’m Reminded of leia briefing the pilots at Hoth and she tells everyone what’s up then that guy is all, “Two fighters against a star destroyer?!” And she responds like a good leader would, with essentially, “yeah well we’ll have the cannon covering you but yeah this sucks sorry dude whaddya want”. Holdo would have said he doesn’t need to know that and then said his rank with implied malice Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 16:14
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Holdo is ultimately responsible for what happens under her command. Including the mutiny. Good leaders don't have mutinies happen on their watch. Getting dropped into command of an unfamiliar crew was not a good assignment but nothing about the situation was good and she hosed it up. This reminds me of European leadership, where everybody is a good liberal but when things go incredibly bad on their watch it's always somebody else's fault and don't remove me from power I had nothing to do with it.
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Dec 27, 2017 16:40
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My biggest problem with this and the Force Awakens is they totally undermine everything about the originals. So the Rebellion wins and suddenly a few years after ROTJ they're down to 400 men and three ships and the First Order is as strong or stronger than the Empire ever was. Totally stupid.
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Dec 27, 2017 16:41
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Now that I think about it, the only part of the plan which actually remained secret was the usage of Salt Planet Radio. The fueling of the transports became common knowledge, so the imperials would have learned that from any theoretical spies or captured escape pods.
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Dec 27, 2017 16:43
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Holdo is a wealthy aristocrat/oligarch. Everyone is so far beneath her in status that the thought she should earn their loyalty doesn't occur. The resistance has significant financial backing, she's bankrolling them. It's her party, she makes the rules, she doesn't have to wear a uniform. Now if Poe really wanted to know the plan, he should have just checked her website.
Sinding Johansson fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 16:45
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Ginette Reno posted:My biggest problem with this and the Force Awakens is they totally undermine everything about the originals. So the Rebellion wins and suddenly a few years after ROTJ they're down to 400 men and three ships and the First Order is as strong or stronger than the Empire ever was. Totally stupid. It was a big missed opportunity not to do something different with the dynamics, I agree. I think the First Order would have been infinitely more interesting if it were smaller and more fringe, operating through indoctrination and subterfuge rather than planet-sized super weapons. Edit: The Force Awakens would have been far more interesting if it started with the Republic not even knowing the First Order existed.
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Dec 27, 2017 16:52
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Fart City posted:It was a big missed opportunity not to do something different with the dynamics, I agree. I think the First Order would have been infinitely more interesting if it were smaller and more fringe, operating through indoctrination and subterfuge rather than planet-sized super weapons. Flipping the script and having the "rebels" be the baddies seems like such a no brainer I can't believe they didn't consider it at some point Fart City posted:Edit: The Force Awakens would have been far more interesting if it started with the Republic not even knowing the First Order existed. Poe's reaction upon being captured seems to be, "holy loving poo poo look at all this stuff". He looks around the hanger in utter disbelief ...and then there's no followup to that
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Dec 27, 2017 16:55
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I should watch TFA again to make sure, but wasn't the New Republic dismissive of the New Order and that's kind of what hosed them over? Also the remnants of the Empire are a big thing, the Rebel Alliance struck a harsh blow on them but it's not like they destroyed everything.
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Dec 27, 2017 17:00
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Can I also just say I am really annoyed that the movie expects us to think Po was wrong? To be entirely honest I'd thought he was right if he shot Admiral Pinkhair in the head assuming she was the one feeding hyperspace coordinates to them. What kind of plan is "Let our ships die one by one then try to run away on shuttles, which I'll let die to like the last 2 before I do anything about?" Really? Dias posted:I should watch TFA again to make sure, but wasn't the New Republic dismissive of the New Order and that's kind of what hosed them over? Also the remnants of the Empire are a big thing, the Rebel Alliance struck a harsh blow on them but it's not like they destroyed everything. Ginette Reno posted:My biggest problem with this and the Force Awakens is they totally undermine everything about the originals. So the Rebellion wins and suddenly a few years after ROTJ they're down to 400 men and three ships and the First Order is as strong or stronger than the Empire ever was. Totally stupid. Two movies, untold tie-ins and several years of development later and I still have no loving idea what the state of the universe is, why the resistance is the resistance other than "We needed it to be like rebels," why the First Order was able to get not only large enough to make a super weapon but invade the entire galaxy, etc. None of it makes any sense to me or most people. You have to almost ignore it to try to understand what the hell is going on. It feels like it'd made so much more sense if TFA was structured more like: - Great big Republic fleet doesn't consider First Order a threat - We find out why First Order is a threat - Republic Fleet obliterated and First Order invades - Survivors of the Republic Fleet are now the Resistance That'd make perfect sense but instead they START OFF that way and... my head hurts. None of this universe makes sense anymore. ED: Also that would make Last Jedi's plot of there being like 500 loving rebels left make a lot more sense too. The whole situation would have been understandably desperate if it went down like that. But at the end of the TFA the rebels looked like they had a sizable fleet and where the gently caress were all the surviving Republic ships? I'm not trying to nit pick and it oozes "We needed rebels and empire and we couldn't deviate" focus testing but the result is the most confusing political mess there is. Is there like, any explanation at all out there? Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 17:03
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Yeah of all of the odd creative decisions made in TFA, nothing will ever be more baffling to me than having the Resistance be a separate and discrete organization from the New Republic. Why can't Leia's group of ships be some sort of Trek style, "only ship in the quadrant" style thing? A subplot about the New Republic brass being skeptical of Leia being on a witch hunt for the Empire and thus sorta quasi unofficially exiled to the outer rim would've been perfect The former freedom fighter who cried wolf whose crew actually comes across a no poo poo death star
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Dec 27, 2017 17:08
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You know if they wanted to completely make people come out of this movie giving it a lot more props and favor the last scene shouldn't have been Luke disappearing after staring into the two suns, but raising his X-Wing. People would have lost their loving poo poo in the best possible way instead of going "...eh? That was kinda dumb if he was going to die anyway why not just go there and HOW did he die exactly?" Hell my theory, that they foreshadowed earlier in the movie that matter could transfer by showing water appearing on the flagship, was that the lightsaber actually wrecked him somewhat hasn't really been brought up much but none of them make any sense..
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Dec 27, 2017 17:09
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Fart City posted:It was a big missed opportunity not to do something different with the dynamics, I agree. I think the First Order would have been infinitely more interesting if it were smaller and more fringe, operating through indoctrination and subterfuge rather than planet-sized super weapons. They didn't want to do that because then it'd be a constant balancing act of portraying the Republic in a positive light instead of just a new version of the Empire with a more outwardly friendly appearance. And on the flip side, being careful not to make the First Order so small and insignificant that they come off as feeling too much like the Rebels of the OT. Taking on that more difficult task would have potentially paid off with an infinitely more interesting story going forward but they just wanted to churn out familiar, nostalgia producing sequels until the end of time. And that's what they're gonna do.
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Dec 27, 2017 17:11
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McCloud posted:Oh I don't need it for the backstories sake. As you said, the broad strokes of the story is made available because we're told about this by the characters. I do however it would add some weight to the scene where Luke is standing over Kylo, if we actually see why he might think this kid is going to be a danger, instead of how it was presented to us, which is a middle-aged man about to murder his nephew in his sleep. Snoke's whole new force power is all based around setting up kylo ren skype calls. I doesn't seem like they leave anything out needed to follow or understand the scene. At the same time I am sure there will be 45 novels explaining the significance of the specific weave used in his bathrobe if you want that. Star wars feels like it lets people that need more and more details on stuff to get it but also presents the broad strokes enough that the movies barely ever feel like something is left out. (the red arm thing is left out of the movie but that was a gag about the silver leg changing)
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Dec 27, 2017 17:25
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Basebf555 posted:They didn't want to do that because then it'd be a constant balancing act of portraying the Republic in a positive light instead of just a new version of the Empire with a more outwardly friendly appearance. And on the flip side, being careful not to make the First Order so small and insignificant that they come off as feeling too much like the Rebels of the OT. Taking on that more difficult task would have potentially paid off with an infinitely more interesting story going forward but they just wanted to churn out familiar, nostalgia producing sequels until the end of time. And that's what they're gonna do. The funny thing is if you look at the kind of threats the eras are facing, it'd made thematic sense to this generation I think too. In Star Wars, you had the big looming threats of Russia and the recent history of World War II so you've got these big, impressive bad guys with super weapons. Today your typical bad guys are more like the Rebels of the OT in number and tactics, just far more evil. So making the new First Order basically that could have been absolutely great. This whole trilogy would have been so much better if it was literally the inverse power situation.
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Dec 27, 2017 17:25
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Kart Barfunkel posted:Why was what Admiral Holdo did a good thing but when Finn tried it it’s a bad thing? Because Holdo did it so the resistance could escape. If Finn did it, they would still have nowhere to go.
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Dec 27, 2017 17:27
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the empire wasn't russia, it was america
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Dec 27, 2017 17:29
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I thought the Empire was Britain and the Rebels were the Americans.
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Dec 27, 2017 17:56
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Blazing Ownager posted:The funny thing is if you look at the kind of threats the eras are facing, it'd made thematic sense to this generation I think too. It's a touchy subject because Americans like to have their cake and eat it too. We want to see America portrayed as the plucky underdog, the last line of defense that beats back the wolves that are constantly at the door of civilization. But we ALSO want to feel like America is a dominant force, so dominant that we can sleep at night without worrying about bombs dropping or an invasion happening at any moment. So yea there's a part of us that wants to see a huge Republic crush a terroristic, fanatical rebel group, because that's an issue we're dealing with in real life, but at the same time we've crafted this worldview that makes sure to always cast ourselves as the good guys, and there's a danger that a huge, vast New Republic would hit too many of those old Empire notes and plant a seed of doubt that would mess with all that warm and fuzzy nostalgia.
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Dec 27, 2017 17:56
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Ginette Reno posted:My biggest problem with this and the Force Awakens is they totally undermine everything about the originals. So the Rebellion wins and suddenly a few years after ROTJ they're down to 400 men and three ships and the First Order is as strong or stronger than the Empire ever was. Totally stupid. Surely you could argue that the prequels undermine the originals as well because they portray the Republic - which the Rebel Alliance wants to restore - as something that's not really worth saving and the Jedi as well-meaning but misguided more so than "guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy".  I mean, I think that's a fair point you're making, but it's been endemic in Star Wars media since 1983 that the same bad guys always come back in some shape or form (they got years of mileage out of rogue Imperial officers who split off and started their own splinter kingdoms, for instance) and undo everything the heroes won in the original movies and defeating them and basically resetting things back to "end of Return of the Jedi" is the way things have always gone; I can't really say I'm especially surprised that the new movies have done the same thing. Of course, the one time they tried to do something very different (the New Jedi Order novel series) it ended up being just as if not more divisive than TLJ, not least because it was too different from the movies (the bad guys kill off Chewbacca, destroy and terraform the surface of Coruscant and then one of the "reveals" in it is that there is no such thing as the dark side of the Force, for instance). They couldn't walk that back fast enough after it. I don't know. I've mentioned elsewhere, outside SA, a lot of the complaints I've seen from really invested Star Wars fans about this movie (excluding complaints about the filmmaking; the plot, the pacing, the structure etc. which I tend not to see as "fan" complaints if that makes any sense) seem to be that it has changed too much about the series, especially about the Jedi and the Force, and I just don't see it. When TFA came out, I remember lots of people saying, "Oh, Abrams is just setting things up so they're familiar; the next movie will go in a different direction." I've since been informed that a lot of people both expected and wanted this one to be a straight rerun of ESB, which is very surprising to me. Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 17:59
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How fascinating would it have been if it was revealed that the Starkiller base was a secret Republic project, designed as a deterrent against future Empire-level threats, only to have it be highjacked by a lean and hungry First Order and then used to destroy Hosnian Prime? It would explain the logistics of how the base came to be without the Resistance knowing about it or having to explain the funding, would make the shock of the home system being destroyed even more palpable by having it be destroyed by their own safeguard, and could even be used to explain how the First Order grows in size with other systems suddenly being made away of big-rear end superweapons being built by the Republic without public consent.
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Dec 27, 2017 18:06
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Wheat Loaf posted:I thought the Empire was Britain and the Rebels were the Americans. The Empire was Augustine Rome, the Rebels were the Gauls Fart City posted:How fascinating would it have been if it was revealed that the Starkiller base was a secret Republic project, designed as a deterrent against future Empire-level threats, only to have it be highjacked by a lean and hungry First Order and then used to destroy Hosnian Prime? It would explain the logistics of how the base came to be without the Resistance knowing about it or having to explain the funding, would make the shock of the home system being destroyed even more palpable by having it be destroyed by their own safeguard, and could even be used to explain how the First Order grows in size with other systems suddenly being made away of big-rear end superweapons being built by the Republic without public consent. If you wanna poo poo all over the feel of OT star wars by bedecking it in modern life-horror, just make TFA about Starkiller Base launching its energy shots at hugely populated planets from the deep outer rim (where it would make sense a loving planet-sized doomsday weapon could exist without the entire galaxy knowing about it) but the energy taking so long to get there all the New Republic can do is try to evacuate and do a revenge strike The entire movie could be a ticking clock as the beams get inexorably closer Ammanas fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 18:12
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Waffles Inc. posted:She withheld it from not just Poe, but from everyone assembled at her briefing. Why? Why not give them something? Which briefing? I'm not entirely sure this is the case either way. Why are more command crew than Holdo detained during the mutiny? One of them is the officer who announced Holdo was taking over for Leia and explains what Crait is. It appears that Holdo had let several crew members in on the actual plan. So she was not just keeping it to herself, she was limiting it to those she felt she could trust. Poe, did nothing to build trust since the D'Qar evacuation, so he was left out. Poe then sees her "conspiring" with a select few and detains them, even though all of them were working towards a positive goal.
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Dec 27, 2017 18:16
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Arglebargle III posted:Holdo is ultimately responsible for what happens under her command. Including the mutiny. Good leaders don't have mutinies happen on their watch. Getting dropped into command of an unfamiliar crew was not a good assignment but nothing about the situation was good and she hosed it up. I'd have been down with her executing Po, or at least putting him in the brig.
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Dec 27, 2017 18:16
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Wheat Loaf posted:I don't know. I've mentioned elsewhere, outside SA, a lot of the complaints I've seen from really invested Star Wars fans about this movie (excluding complaints about the filmmaking; the plot, the pacing, the structure etc. which I tend not to see as "fan" complaints if that makes any sense) seem to be that it has changed too much about the series, especially about the Jedi and the Force, and I just don't see it. When TFA came out, I remember lots of people saying, "Oh, Abrams is just setting things up so they're familiar; the next movie will go in a different direction." I've since been informed that a lot of people both expected and wanted this one to be a straight rerun of ESB, which is very surprising to me. Yeah I had no problem with the new force stuff, even Mary Poppins Leia was fine by me surprisingly. My big what the fucks (aside from the "what the hell is going on with the factions in the universe" mess) are all just plot things, like: - Why waste our time showing that Po was wrong for questioning a smug admiral woman who seems to have the plan of "throwing ships to their death, leaving a pilot behind to... uh... pilot them out of gas?" - Why waste our time showing the character that should have been central to the plot, Finn, going off with a new character on a mission that goes nowhere and just makes things worse? - How the gently caress are people coming and going from the fleet that can "track through lightspeed?" - Why the gently caress did Luke die? No, really, I want to know what actually loving killed him, there's a dozen theories. I should not be asking that. - Why the gently caress did they just throw away Phasma, again?! - Why the gently caress did they throw away Del Torro's character, probably the most interesting character we've seen? - WHY WHY WHY WHY WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY The more I think about the story the more I realize how loving terrible it actually was. I had a real forgiving attitude when I called it a good looking clusterfuck as my initial review. How the gently caress did this guy write Looper, a movie so focused on plot holes that there have been massive flow charts explaining it, while just.. just filling the screen with them? To say nothing of the just plain bad choices. ED: This whole movie would have made infinitely more sense if Pink Haired Admiral ended up actually being a traitor, and that the track through lightspeed device was just a clever bunch of bullshit Snoke setup to bring Rei's friends to him for their confrontation. I mean it practically writes itself. Why do I feel like random people on the internet are better at writing movies that current movie writers? Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 18:18
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Teek posted:Which briefing? I'm not entirely sure this is the case either way. Why are more command crew than Holdo detained during the mutiny? One of them is the officer who announced Holdo was taking over for Leia and explains what Crait is. It appears that Holdo had let several crew members in on the actual plan. So she was not just keeping it to herself, she was limiting it to those she felt she could trust. Poe, did nothing to build trust since the D'Qar evacuation, so he was left out. The briefing where the older lady with the white hair is like, "the line of succession is clear, it's Admiral Holdo" There's murmuring and Holdo says a bunch of stuff including the line Poe says later. It, I think purposefully, evokes Mon Mothma's briefing in RotJ I genuinely cannot think of a reason supported by the text not to say, "we're going to burn our fuel to get close to Crait, where there's an old base with the power to transmit, then we'll launch our shuttles since the empire isn't monitoring for those" to everyone Why not justify it within the film somehow? With talk of spies or even some sort of technobabble of some sort? Is there any information in the series prior to now that is shown to be need-to-know? It's just so odd that we're left to rationalize it ourselves somehow, even taking it on its face
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Dec 27, 2017 18:22
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Luke force projected himself across galaxies and he was already pretty old and tired to begin with, he died from exertion. "Why didn't he just fly there?" Well, there's a couple of explanations, one being that he maybe wouldn't make it in time, the other being that he wanted to deny/protect Ren from killing him. He died but he died on his own terms, Kylo didn't win, he didn't get revenge. He says it outright: "if you strike me down in anger I'll always be with you", and he doesn't want that.
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Dec 27, 2017 18:26
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Leia said it before she got blown up
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Dec 27, 2017 18:26
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Blazing Ownager posted:ED: This whole movie would have made infinitely more sense if Pink Haired Admiral ended up actually being a traitor, and that the track through lightspeed device was just a clever bunch of bullshit Snoke setup to bring Rei's friends to him for their confrontation. I mean it practically writes itself. Why do I feel like random people on the internet are better at writing movies that current movie writers? Well, sure, I thought that TPM would've been better if Amidala had been the hereditary queen of Naboo who wanted to abdicate, abolish the monarchy and join the Republic and she had an evil illegitimate older brother who felt like he was owed the throne and teamed up with the Trade Federation to blockade the planet, entirely because I didn't understand the point of Padme being a 14-year old who was elected as queen. Palpatine would've been in on it, that would've been the big twist and then whoever discovered it would've been killed off by Darth Maul. Also, Dooku would have been there as well and then quit the Jedi at the end because he was disillusioned by how the whole thing turned out. But that would've just been my fanfiction. I took Star Wars far too seriously for too many years because I was a hopeless loving nerd, largely because I just didn't like the prequel movies at all for a long time. Eventually, I wised up about it, realised that most of the EU books I spent my teenage years reading were enjoyable pulp at best, went back and decided the prequels are pretty good on balance, and maybe now my expectations are just too low and I'm too lenient with the movies. (I mean, look, I've never written a screenplay. )
Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 18:29
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Dias posted:Luke force projected himself across galaxies and he was already pretty old and tired to begin with, he died from exertion. "Why didn't he just fly there?" Well, there's a couple of explanations, one being that he maybe wouldn't make it in time, the other being that he wanted to deny/protect Ren from killing him. He died but he died on his own terms, Kylo didn't win, he didn't get revenge. He says it outright: "if you strike me down in anger I'll always be with you", and he doesn't want that. If he had flown to Salt Planet, he wouldn't have been able to do anything anyway, the superhero Luke Skywalker a lot of us were secretly hoping for would have been preposterous. Imagine CGI Luke flying across the screen, bisecting AT-AT walkers with his green lightsaber and force powers. Would have been embarrassing, even more so than the shoulder-brush motion
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Dec 27, 2017 18:30
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also if they're otherwise pinned down by the FO but can still send a discreet ship to casino planet, why can't they send a few guys on a beer run? this has been bothering me.
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Dec 27, 2017 18:31
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They went to planet salt to make the margs
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Dec 27, 2017 18:32
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Kevin Palpatine posted:also if they're otherwise pinned down by the FO but can still send a discreet ship to casino planet, why can't they send a few guys on a beer run? this has been bothering me. The problem isn't the Comic Book Store Guy from simpsons asking these detailed questions about plot holes, it's that the movie makes us question it so much. That's part of why it's Bad.
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Dec 27, 2017 18:32
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How come it’s easy to answer then
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Dec 27, 2017 18:33
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Woden posted:I'd have been down with her executing Po, or at least putting him in the brig. Ignoring Poe was the worst thing she could have done about him and that's what she did. Hell give him a useless mission that gets him off the ship since apparently leaving the ship without getting caught isn't a problem until the script says that it is a problem.
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Dec 27, 2017 18:34
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Blazing Ownager posted:- Why the gently caress did Luke die? No, really, I want to know what actually loving killed him, there's a dozen theories. I should not be asking that. Luke developed late-stage (blue) lactose intolerance and spent the last moments of his life farting his guts out in indescribable discomfort and embarrassment THE END
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Dec 27, 2017 18:36
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Ammanas posted:If he had flown to Salt Planet, he wouldn't have been able to do anything anyway, the superhero Luke Skywalker a lot of us were secretly hoping for would have been preposterous. Imagine CGI Luke flying across the screen, bisecting AT-AT walkers with his green lightsaber and force powers. Would have been embarrassing, even more so than the shoulder-brush motion The story of him surviving a billion AT-AT shots will carry on for a while too, also he said something about the force not being about lifting rocks and light sabers so maybe something is supposed to be read into that. Woden fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 18:36
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Pretend you didn’t see the movie and looked at it from a POV that doesn’t include knowing the past or future.
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Dec 27, 2017 18:37
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Projecting yourself across the galaxy will kill you. They said it in the movie
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#
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Dec 27, 2017 18:38
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