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In vanilla there's a pretty set beginning to your anthill, yeah. Put the guerilla tactics on the open space, ideally on left or right. Middle space is resistance comm or power as needs warrant. Middle of second row is a workshop, one of the spaces adjacent to it is a proving ground. Build your Shadow chamber and psi lab on exposed power cells since they draw too much energy otherwise. Generally I think going for squad upgrades is better than individual, so yes, you want better armor in lieu of building spider/wraith/exo suits. I'm sure there's a tech tree out there but I've internalized it at this point. Biggest autopsies are faceless, Mutons, and vipers for decoys, better nades, and better medkits. Elerium bottlenecks the best tier of armor and weapons.
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Dec 27, 2017 01:59
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| # ? May 14, 2024 15:47 |
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EXO suits are extremely good bang for your buck, especially with the shredder gun. I don't really get more than one spider suit if that due to the Viper King reward though. Wraith suits don't really matter at all tbh
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Dec 27, 2017 02:11
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RabidWeasel posted:Also am I missing something or are the individual unit upgrade armour suits pretty poor value for money? They have to be researched first and then you have to buy them invidually, and the first tier suits seem to have a fairly narrow period during which they're actually viable before you replace them with tier 3 of the 'standard' body armour - is there some way to upgrade them into the upgraded (WAR / wraith suits)? The E.X.O Suits and the Spider Suit are a very valuable mid-game tool, though I wouldn't build more than one of each. Sadly, they cannot be upgraded to the WAR Suit or Wraith suit, but once they are obsolete (which I would say only really comes with the WAR/Wraith suit, rather than the Warden armor on its own; the grapple and the heavy weapon are still very useful, even if they do come at a comparative HP cost), they can be sold at the Black Market to recoup some of the cost. RabidWeasel posted:For a new game is there any upgrade path better than rushing the tactics school and then weapon and armour upgrades? The various minor upgrades are cool, but nearly everything costs supplies on top of the research cost and it feels like I don't have any to spare on top of upgrading the basic abilities of my units. Honestly? Not really. At least in the early game, its important to rush out the GTS (to pump out squaddies and for the squad size upgrades when available), as well as getting to Mag weapons as early as reasonable possible. Though you also want to make sure you get your resistance contacts going and expanding as well, since much like Satellites in the first game, contacting more regions is how you increase your monthly income.
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Dec 27, 2017 02:13
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The wraith perk just seems so niche that I wonder if it wouldn't be suited to a guerilla perk instead of an upgrade.
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Dec 27, 2017 02:14
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Bogart posted:The wraith perk just seems so niche that I wonder if it wouldn't be suited to a guerilla perk instead of an upgrade. I mean, snipers don't want it due to Icarus and my Rangers either have the Rage suit or are so strong it doesn't matter at all. Specialists can use it I guess but I'd rather they have both slots. Psi don't give a poo poo either way. Grenadiers always get War suits.
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Dec 27, 2017 02:20
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Grapple is real loving good. I really like it on Sharpshooters since they only need ammo in their utility slot. And phasing is cool for pistol shenangiens.
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Dec 27, 2017 02:21
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Vanilla tips as per requested: Play commander and try to reload as little as possible. Lower difficulties fudge things for the player which leads to bad habits. The only real gotcha on the tech tree is not selling corpses asap, or rather just one type: troopers. I think it's 10-15 you need for the teir2 armour unlock? Otherwise the tech tree is kinda intuitive. Get guns&armour, get utility items when the next tier looks too expensive etc. EXO suits are a poor deal, as you really won't have the foundry out fast enough nor the time&resources to be using heavy weapons that fast. Spider suits and their grapping hook, otoh, are primo stuff for snipers and sword ranger etc. There's no way to upgrade them to the teir3 equivalents, but spiders suits are good, use them.
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Dec 27, 2017 02:35
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I found wraith suits useful on the new jailbreak missions but other than that it's pretty rare that you'll ever click that ability 
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Dec 27, 2017 02:43
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I used the suit itself plenty of times for the grappling hook, but I don't think I've ever actually used Wraith itself. Any time I remember it exists, I'm not in a position where I need it. My ideal suit would be the wraith armour, but instead of Wraith it has a second grappling hook, so I can juke around like the double claw shot in Twilight Princess
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Dec 27, 2017 02:52
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I used Wraith to save-scum stealth a blacksite in vanilla, once. Maybe a couple times to rush to evac, or secure a kill? It's a cool idea, but I don't ever miss it when I don't have it.
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Dec 27, 2017 03:59
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Man, I'm really torn. There are things I both love, and things I'm not so fond of, about the A Better Barracks mod... I really wish I could just play with the Long War classes in WoTC. I used the LW Perk Pack for so long in Vanilla XCom2, even though it's a watered down version, now with WoTC out, I dunno what I wanna do.
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Dec 27, 2017 04:32
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I just said 'gently caress it' and reinstalled. Non-WotC, LW2. I feel happier for it, in spite of the framerate issues and all.
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Dec 27, 2017 04:45
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I could never go back to non-WotC personally. The performance alone is 
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Dec 27, 2017 04:52
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or going back to lw2
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Dec 27, 2017 05:08
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On my note of mods (still waffling over whether I want to keep using Better Barracks or not)... I miss the Idle Suppression mod. There's no WotC version of it yet. It was purely cosmetic, but it was a really fun way to spice up the battlefield.
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Dec 27, 2017 05:46
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N.B. that idle suppression, while awesome, had the terrifying gameplay effect that it's hard to tell when someone is *actually suppressing you*. I had to turn it off after the second time I got a guy accidentally shot from that.
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Dec 27, 2017 06:24
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Serephina posted:Vanilla tips as per requested: Play commander and try to reload as little as possible. Lower difficulties fudge things for the player which leads to bad habits. The only real gotcha on the tech tree is not selling corpses asap, or rather just one type: troopers. I think it's 10-15 you need for the teir2 armour unlock? Otherwise the tech tree is kinda intuitive. Get guns&armour, get utility items when the next tier looks too expensive etc. Yeah I found that on Veteran I had quickly got to the point where I could pretty much face tank combats in spite of horribly mismanaging the tech tree / construction. I never actually sold any corpses so I guess I was loving up there. E: Serephina posted:Vanilla tips as per requested: Play commander and try to reload as little as possible. Lower difficulties fudge things for the player which leads to bad habits. It feels like it's gone from "game is stacked slightly in your favour" to "hope you enjoy everything being on fire all the time". I don't  E2: OK so it turns out that if you basically pretend that low cover doesn't exist your dudes do a much better job of not getting creamed RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 09:41
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Ranger Colonels in Lost missions are hilarious. Between Reaper and the assassin's shotgun's clip size they pretty much kill infinity lost. Also managed to get a Ranger with chain shot. With that, rapid fire and a team mate giving an extra action she's a monster. Bear Retrieval Unit fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 20:46
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Bear Retrieval Unit posted:Ranger Colonels in Lost missions are hilarious. Between Reaper and the assassin's shotgun's clip size they pretty much kill infinity lost. get a pistolero with the Between the Eyes order active and they can kill exactly infinity lost it's pretty much the best thing on the planet
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Dec 27, 2017 21:00
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Wraith is pretty situational but on the occasions when it is useful god drat is it ever useful. Also yes killing infinity Lost with a pistol is absolutely the greatest thing in the entire world. e; RabidWeasel posted:OK so it turns out that if you basically pretend that low cover doesn't exist your dudes do a much better job of not getting creamed 100% correct approach. Low cover does not exist as far as higher difficulties are concerned. Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 21:21
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This game is hard. It's the hardest game I've ever played where I somehow still want to play more. See how long that lasts for
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Dec 27, 2017 22:39
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Mister Adequate posted:Wraith is pretty situational but on the occasions when it is useful god drat is it ever useful. I see some things didn’t change from the original.
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Dec 27, 2017 22:43
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Coolguye posted:get a pistolero with the Between the Eyes order active and they can kill exactly infinity lost I thought about that and turned a sniper I rescued into a pistol dude, but I don't have that order and the beam pistol doesn't hit for as much as I hoped so it doesn't work that well.
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Dec 28, 2017 00:03
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yeah between the eyes is a requirement, otherwise there will be a lot of Lost that can survive a shot
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Dec 28, 2017 00:22
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I did a thing. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1246700767 Finally got around to updating my old character pool for WotC, plus I added a couple of extra dudes. BlazetheInferno fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Dec 28, 2017 |
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Dec 28, 2017 00:29
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Can someone give me a basic order of operations for the geomap aspect of the early campaign? I always feel like I'm not prioritizing correctly, and I wonder if that has anything to do with my always running out of combat-capable troops early on.
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Dec 28, 2017 03:07
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Well, that was... different. A stunlancer just ran up to one of my dudes, and... tried to smack him with the butt of his rifle? Did... did he forget that he's a STUNLANCER? He missed too, amusingly enough.
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Dec 28, 2017 07:42
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Anonymous Robot posted:Can someone give me a basic order of operations for the geomap aspect of the early campaign? I always feel like I'm not prioritizing correctly, and I wonder if that has anything to do with my always running out of combat-capable troops early on. There's a much finer line between any must-do build orders and alternatives in wotc because there are so many parallel avenues of progress now. This thread loves to prioritize mag weapons and t2 armor into plasma/t3 armor but that's not as big a leap over proving grounds and psi as it used to be. If you're running out of combat capable troops, the problem is in your tactical game, not strategic.
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Dec 28, 2017 15:52
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Wotc sometimes feel like I paid Jake another $40 to fix his loving game
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Dec 28, 2017 15:59
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Zigmidge posted:There's a much finer line between any must-do build orders and alternatives in wotc because there are so many parallel avenues of progress now. This thread loves to prioritize mag weapons and t2 armor into plasma/t3 armor but that's not as big a leap over proving grounds and psi as it used to be. In general, though, should I be building relay links as first priority? I get the sense I’m not being aggressive enough with that, but there are so many timed resources and missions popping up. It feels a good bit more complex and easier to screw up than the previous game.
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Dec 28, 2017 16:05
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It really depends on what the game hands you in those first few months. A lot of how you roll should be based on the rumours you're collecting and the extra bits you get from missions. Build on the strengths you have to be efficient. Relay links are part of that. If you haven't been lucky with getting cash in missions or rumours then definitely reach out to your neighbours. That's just the start. Luck out on sectoids and elerium? Rush psi as fast as you can. Get free sergeants? Invest in the GTS and infirmary or Roll out a lab and rush t2 gear. Lots of elerium cores? Rushing proving grounds and sparks is great! And those are grand strategy things. You could get even finer with how resistance orders and covert-ops mission rewards pan out for you. You might get 'instant ammo and grenade research' so you drop the sparks from your proving grounds plan and outfit your squad with robot, armor and flesh eating accessories. You could also look at it like this: Strapped for cash? Getting contacts doesn't fix that problem, it only sets you up for your plan one or two months + 3 days down the line and only for about 100-150 resources more than you were already getting. That's about the same time investment to dig out and build a psionics facility and have someone trained in it at least once with a much bigger payoff than what that 150 could have bought you. All that to say not to stress too much about not having used up your resistance contacts. My current game has me sitting on 2 contacted regions half a year in because cash rumours (I have doubled rumour rewards) and facility location intel have been falling into my lap the whole game.
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Dec 28, 2017 16:57
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All of that is a bunch of nonsense if you're losing too many soldiers in the tactical layer. Nothing can save xcom from itself. https://i.imgur.com/El75cUt.mp4
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Dec 28, 2017 16:58
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I decided enough time had passed for me to fire up a new campaign. Still just Commander difficulty, because Legendary seems downright unfair to me until the lategame, but Ironman at least. Back to back Gatecrasher attempts, I had the Advent Captain one shot crit-kill a guy out of full cover. Back to back second missions, I ran out of time to disable the objective. Why, oh why, must 3/4s of all of the difficulty in this game be centered right in the first month? Also, why must the mission timers suck SO HARD? I generally frown on mods that give me tactical advantages, because I don't feel like I'm really winning unless I win facing the same difficulty (or higher) that would face on a mission playing Vanilla. But I really am tempted to download one of those mods that extends mission timers. I'm all for forcing the player to get poo poo done and not just sit around or overwatch creep forever, but some of these timers feel really unreasonable.
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Dec 28, 2017 17:06
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a mod? why not use that start option that doubles your timers?
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Dec 28, 2017 17:13
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Soup du Journey posted:a mod? why not use that start option that doubles your timers? Is there such an option? I recall something about A Longer War-lite kinda thing which makes the whole game take longer, and Beta Strike or whatever which gives everything doubled health for longer engagements, but is there an option which just flat out increases mission timers? I'd check for myself but I'm at work right now.
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Dec 28, 2017 17:21
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Backhand posted:Is there such an option? I recall something about A Longer War-lite kinda thing which makes the whole game take longer, and Beta Strike or whatever which gives everything doubled health for longer engagements, but is there an option which just flat out increases mission timers? Yes. There's one that flat doubles turns in mission and one that doubles the length of the Avatar project.
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Dec 28, 2017 17:26
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Huh. Well I stand corrected then. Thank you.
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Dec 28, 2017 17:42
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Anonymous Robot posted:In general, though, should I be building relay links as first priority? I get the sense I’m not being aggressive enough with that, but there are so many timed resources and missions popping up. It feels a good bit more complex and easier to screw up than the previous game. i personally don't play this way because getting relay links and such set up is a big investment. - researching the resistance comms early on is time you could be using researching guns, armor, or psi - building the resistance comms is money - building the relay towers is time AND money - growing your network is intel, which you're going to use for a ton of other stuff i do resistance comms after i have my workshop built and a few places cleared out. beyond that i will expand toward the black site so i have an avatar steam valve if necessary. there's many ways to get supplies outside of selling your shirt at a bake sale and expanding your network like the first game. you can investigate rumors. you have supply raids. you can get paid directly through guerilla ops. at least the way i play it is better to be more shooty and dead 'ard than well connected. some folks do not play like this; they rely more on faction soldiers than i do and handle Chosen attacks with more aplomb than i do. i personally am happier using a good old fashioned gun and/or bomb to solve most of my problems and i typically fence with Chosen for many turns before i take them down, which is always high tension and frequently high stakes. but there is definitely a space for expanding early, getting your faction soldiers early, and getting well connected early. that is a definite path to power that works.
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Dec 28, 2017 19:57
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You will always need supplies. Doing things that give supplies are thus good. In the endgame you will no longer feel the need for them. But in the endgame, the difficulty drops. Resistance comms are necessary for a main and reliable supply source. Thus you want to max your comms whenever possible.
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Dec 28, 2017 20:08
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I feel dumb as hell because I just realised that workshop gremlins can do literally everything that engineers do including excavations. That's hot. I've been taking a specialist on every sortie to hack poo poo and for some healing support, but they're so boring and they never kill anything so they take ages to level up. I'd really like to just take a 4th grenadier but I assume that haywire is going to get more useful, and it is nice getting random extra stuff from the occasional hack.
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Dec 28, 2017 20:46
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