|
The EU had the same problem of not letting that faction ever be reduced in a meaningful way, Empire rehashes are endemic to Star Wars (clone emperors ect.). I totally agree though that every time they do it it begs the question of how this massive Empire persists after it's huge infrastructure projects are destroyed and it's supreme leaders are humiliated and killed. It's not like there is any binding philosophy to it other than sith manipulation and a kind of vague human chauvinism.
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 21:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 23:02 |
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:Netflix Death Note was legitimately good and if you don't think so you really just don't understand Death Note My dude 
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 21:32
|
|
|
Netflix Death Note could have used more Willem Dafoe.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 21:34
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Incompetent but effective seems to be the Empire's MO. They controlled the galaxy and could afford to waste large numbers of troops in poorly organized operations while still being an insurmountable threat. The First Order lost a huge fleet to a single cruiser jump and they aren't exactly a galaxy spanning organization. The reason was explained in this movie - thanks to the Republic’s incompetence and the Empire’s malice, the galaxy has become so broken that violence and oppression is the foundation of its economy. The First Order-Resistance war will continue as long as it’s profitable. I’m not 100% sure it was a coincidence that the war profiteers were hanging out at an amusement park that looked suspiciously like Disneyland...
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 21:50
|
|
|
I wouldn't put it past Disney to imply that seeing Disney movies and buying Disney products is an act of resistance against Disney.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 21:55
|
|
|
Roth posted:Netflix Death Note could have used more Willem Dafoe.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 22:11
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:I fully expect the next movie to show that the First Order has fifty million super star destroyers in their back pocket for some inane reason. Fleets of Death Stars. That's no galaxy!
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 22:18
|
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:The same could be said of all movies. True! I propose that all movies should have a faded image of Willem Dafoe smiling at the camera overlayed over it for the entire movie.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 22:23
|
|
|
Augus posted:I mean, I hate it because it's less interesting and more cliched compared to Light just being a bad person in the first place who became a serial killer the second he got the chance to do so. For me, the worst part of the Netflix Death Note is the fact they don't do anything interesting with the localization. It's just such a pointless adaptation, it doesn't really have any compelling reason to exist, artistically speaking. Sanguinia posted:Do you not think the fact that Light is continually manipulated by Misa into escalating his behavior beyond what he internally wants, the fact that Misa eventually tries to kill Light so she can do even more "for the good of the world," and the fact that the show ends with Light's father tacitly endorsing what his son has done as Kira completely undermines any reading that Light is made unlikable as a "take that," to people who ignored the fact that Light was the villain and a monster in the original? Also this. Comparatively, Light comes across as very sympathetic in the Netflix version, which imo misses the point. He's bullied, and he's egged on by Misa, and just so very reluctant to go too far using his powers, and L corners him so he has no choice but to lash out... Bleh. It does make him chronically uncool and about as far away from being a badass as you can get, and I can appreciate that, but turning him into some kind of woobie is worse in pretty much every way.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 22:27
|
|
|
I've only done one viewing of Netflix Death Note, but I remember the most disappointing thing for me was that they have Light and Mia go after fascists, terrorists, and the like. Which I think is a good way to go with an Americanized version, having them be a sort of commentary on American intervention in foreign countries, but then it felt like that kinda just got dropped in favor of Light and Mia's relationship drama.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 22:36
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:Have any Internet critics had their takes on the latest Star Wars movie other than Angry Joe? Jenny Nicholson and Dan Olson liked/mostly liked it. As did Kyle Kallgren, on Twitter. As far as more midtier movie critics go, Moviebob and Chris Stuckmann liked it while Jeremy Jahns hated it and said Rogue One was the better movie (figures).
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 22:51
|
|
|
Jeremy Jahns didn't hate it, he gave it his mid tier rating of "good time no alcohol required", but he had a number if issues with it that most people have touched on.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 22:55
|
|
|
Roth posted:I've only done one viewing of Netflix Death Note, but I remember the most disappointing thing for me was that they have Light and Mia go after fascists, terrorists, and the like. Which I think is a good way to go with an Americanized version, having them be a sort of commentary on American intervention in foreign countries, but then it felt like that kinda just got dropped in favor of Light and Mia's relationship drama. honestly I really disliked that because it turned Light from a sociopath serial killer god to just another power fantasy of "KILLIN THE BAD GUYS WITHOUT PLAYING BY THE RULES". Like, his entire conflict in the movie was that he was a good guy who got in a bad crowd which is...not the Light character at all.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 23:03
|
|
|
Falstaff posted:Also this. Comparatively, Light comes across as very sympathetic in the Netflix version, which imo misses the point. He's bullied, and he's egged on by Misa, and just so very reluctant to go too far using his powers, and L corners him so he has no choice but to lash out... Bleh. The closest example to this Grand Theft Auto 5 wherein Michael has convinced himself that he's somehow morally better than Trevor when the opposite is true. Michael like Netflix Light has no real morality of any kind, only a perception of normal and a shallow lifestyle that he wants to maintain. Hence why light starts murdering people to impress a girl before there is any hint that she might actually be a lover of magical murder.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 23:07
|
|
|
Mars4523 posted:Jenny Nicholson and Dan Olson liked/mostly liked it. As did Kyle Kallgren, on Twitter. Ah, yes, I noticed Kyle's take on it on Twitter. I imagine he was being a bit hyperbolic for humour's sake, but it would be interesting to see a fuller review from him. Does Kyle (and Allison Pregler, who I remember having an account) still post here at all?
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 23:11
|
|
|
Netflix Light is a high school Incel with Milo hair who gets recruited by Tyler Durden/Pepe into the fantasy of cleansing society by purging undesirables but learns that he can't be both the Nietzschean ubermensch remaking morality in his own image and a middle class nobody. He has no moral conflict with Ryuk or Mia, he's just afraid of consequences. He's a compete coward piece of poo poo and it's hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 23:21
|
|
|
I Before E posted:Netflix Light is a high school Incel with Milo hair who gets recruited by Tyler Durden/Pepe into the fantasy of cleansing society by purging undesirables but learns that he can't be both the Nietzschean ubermensch remaking morality in his own image and a middle class nobody. He has no moral conflict with Ryuk or Mia, he's just afraid of consequences. He's a compete coward piece of poo poo and it's hilarious. the worst part is I absolutely like School Shooter Light. That's a pretty good character to do, have a loser like him finally get his chance and go 'aaaah but wait I'm gonna get in trouble' is funny and gives the demons/others someone to work with. It's just...not what the story is? I dunno, it feels like 90% of the issues could be fixed by calling it Death Note: The Next Generation or something. Just don't make this lovely little Fight Club washout 'Light', make him...Bill. Bill Kira, boom, solved most of my issues with the Netflix show.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 23:34
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Incompetent but effective seems to be the Empire's MO. They controlled the galaxy and could afford to waste large numbers of troops in poorly organized operations while still being an insurmountable threat. The First Order lost a huge fleet to a single cruiser jump and they aren't exactly a galaxy spanning organization. I remember the opening crawl saying that the First Order is mobilizing across the galaxy to capture key points after it blew up the New Republic edit: Literally the first paragraph in the opening: The FIRST ORDER reigns. Having decimated the peaceful Republic, Supreme Leader Snoke now deploys his merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy. So yeah they had 30 some years to prepare for their takeover of the galaxy so I do kind of expect them to have 50 some Super Star Destroyers SgtSteel91 fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Dec 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2017 23:39
|
|
|
SgtSteel91 posted:I remember the opening craw saying that the First Order is mobilizing across the galaxy to capture key points after it blew up the New Republic They've made several references in both movies about how the Last Order has been strip mining planets and enslaving populations out in the fringes that people seem to keep forgetting. Granted, I think it would be worthwhile to make this point a little more explicit, that the reason the First Order has money and new ships and everything else people have been questioning them having is because they are consuming everything they come across in the Unknown Regions and it's the Republic's failure to address this evil 'outside their jurisdiction,' that both necessitated the creation of the Resistance to do it for them AND allowed the First Order to become powerful enough to seize the galaxy. Throw in the added wrinkle in this movie, that the conflict was escalated by corruption within the Republic in the form of war profiteers who don't care whom they're building weapons for or selling advanced weapon tech to, and you've got all the pieces in place to fully justify the New Order's rise and how well equipped they are. One of the only real problems that I've had with the New Trilogy is how reluctant they are to exposit to us the social and political landscape of the galaxy that is the origin of this conflict. I get that they want to emulate the Original Trilogy and let context and visual storytelling do the heavy lifting for us, but the fact of the matter is the new trilogy's setting and the origins of this conflict are more complex BY THE WRITER'S DESIGN. Trying to do what the original trilogy did and let names like THE EMPIRE and the visual comparison between a Star Destroyer and a Blockade Runner tell you everything you need to know doesn't work as well, we need SOME basic information told to us. They even went out of their way to have TWO fish out of water protagonists, one from a backwater planet who knows little about the larger conflicts of the galaxy, and one insider to those larger conflicts who was raised inside an oppressive machine and knows nothing of the outside world. And yet they are never used for the obvious purpose of letting us know what the gently caress is happening, where the First Order came from, where the Resistance came from, and the exact reason why they are fighting each other while the galactic government sits largely on the sidelines. You have to go read BOOKS to get that information. And that is a bummer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 00:27
|
|
|
The books have also been doing a rather piss poor job of contextualizing the galaxy to make the First Order's ascension make sense. For the supposed stakes of the galaxy, the new movies present the FO and the resistance as these small scale skirmishes in the mid rim rather. A corruption financed First order works fine but the movies only pay lip service to this idea, and I'm still of the mind that a terrorist organization if ex imperial officers using outdated tech to take on the decadent New Republic would have been a much more interesting take.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 00:41
|
|
|
sexpig by night posted:The worst part is I absolutely like School Shooter Light. That's a pretty good character to do, have a loser like him finally get his chance and go 'aaaah but wait I'm gonna get in trouble' is funny and gives the demons/others someone to work with. I missed the meat of this conversation but yeah, this pretty much sums up my deal with the Netflix Death Note as well. It's one of those remakes/adaptations/whatevers that does some neat things, but it feels so far removed from the source material that I wish they would've called it Death Note EX or something, because trying to shoehorn all the bad changes as well into the original's name feels crummy and hurts it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 00:41
|
|
|
Falstaff posted:Also this. Comparatively, Light comes across as very sympathetic in the Netflix version, which imo misses the point. He's bullied, and he's egged on by Misa, and just so very reluctant to go too far using his powers, and L corners him so he has no choice but to lash out... Bleh. It's actually why I much prefer the Japanese live action versions of Death Note to the manga & anime. Besides the fact that it made Naomi Misora a key character in the first film, Light is somehow even more sociopathic and just sacrifices his girlfriends life just so he'd look sympathetic and believable when he went to the TaskForce asking to help take Kira down. It also cuts out the second half, which loving plods holy poo poo, and L ends up outsmarting Light by writing his own name in the Death Note so Light couldn't kill him with it. It cuts down on the melodrama and fixes the pacing so much.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 00:42
|
|
|
Yardbomb posted:I missed the meat of this conversation but yeah, this pretty much sums up my deal with the Netflix Death Note as well. It's one of those remakes/adaptations/whatevers that does some neat things, but it feels so far removed from the source material that I wish they would've called it Death Note EX or something, because trying to shoehorn all the bad changes as well into the original's name feels crummy and hurts it. Yea I like the Netflix version, and if you have never seen Death Note before I bet you'd enjoy it, but just as a nerd who knows the anime all I can think when 'Light' is whining about being scared of being busted and all is just 'well, that's not what Light does though'. Testekill posted:It's actually why I much prefer the Japanese live action versions of Death Note to the manga & anime. Besides the fact that it made Naomi Misora a key character in the first film, Light is somehow even more sociopathic and just sacrifices his girlfriends life just so he'd look sympathetic and believable when he went to the TaskForce asking to help take Kira down. It also cuts out the second half, which loving plods holy poo poo, and L ends up outsmarting Light by writing his own name in the Death Note so Light couldn't kill him with it. Yea the Japanese live action is great.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 00:47
|
|
|
Testekill posted:It's actually why I much prefer the Japanese live action versions of Death Note to the manga & anime. Some nice open spoilers there for a movie duology I'm sure everyone's already seen.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 01:18
|
|
|
What's that, guys?! You want the Nostalgia Critic spoiler review of The Last Jedi?!?! Well, why didn't you say so?!
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 01:20
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:A corruption financed First order works fine but the movies only pay lip service to this idea, and I'm still of the mind that a terrorist organization if ex imperial officers using outdated tech to take on the decadent New Republic would have been a much more interesting take. You don't want The Empire to come across as the plucky underdogs up against the odds. This is why I was more intrigued by Rose's mention of how the First Order conquered her planet, enslaved the population and strip-mined the resources. When she mentioned this I immediately thought of the scene from Schindler's List when we see the Nazi's stealing all the wealth of those they were putting into ghettos. The theft of everything from those you are oppressing to fund needless decadence to create an aura of invincibility is an element of fascism that often gets overlooked and forgotten. If you've got an entire planet to exploit and you don't care about the permanent damage you might do to it ecologically or economically, I bet you can make a Star Destroyer or two no problem, even a fancy Star Destroyer with updated tech and new black Tie Fighters and shiny neo-Stormtrooper armor and Gorilla AT-ATs. The corruption element and the arms industry using the First Order to get rich makes sense to fill in the gaps, but this is the angle I think the First Order really should have been pushing as the main thing to justify their giant ships and apparent wealth. It makes them come across as even more evil than the original Empire in some ways. And it's also a much better justification for the Resistance: you can understand why the Republic government might hesitate to go after the First Order in the Unknown Regions. Those aren't their citizens, it's not their territory, and they could easily become Imperialist themselves going out there and planting their flag. It's much easier to write all those people off and say it's up to them to defend themselves, say you're not responsible. Leia on the other hand both has the moral certitude to know its the right thing to fight them out there despite the difficulties, and the foresight to know that the First Order is not going to stay out in space they are stripmining.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 01:28
|
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:I think you're buying into Light's self image a bit too much. He was always a murderous little poo poo and Misa is just more honest about it than him. None of the things she does are objectively any worse than the rampant murder he does it's just that her murders are ones that are close enough to him that they disrupt his constructed normality. I disagree, Light's reluctant to go after anyone but neo-nazis, serial killers, and other despicable violent criminals. He tries very hard to avoid killing L's assistant, for example, and when he fails to put the rabbit back in the hat at the last minute the film treats it as a major moment of failure for the character. Contrast that to original Light, who kills people less because they're despicable and more because they disturb the order he envisions in his perfect little fascist world. That Light would have killed L's assistant without even a moment's hesitation.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 01:47
|
|
|
ApeHawk posted:What's that, guys?! You want the Nostalgia Critic spoiler review of The Last Jedi?!?! Well, why didn't you say so?!  Each passing day I fall further out of love with Star Wars and it has absolutely nothing to do with anything Star Wars itself has done. Please tell me more of your Deep Thoughts on Star Wars, weird rando furry reviewer person.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 01:47
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:
He's not even an honored wolf, why should I listen to him for 40 minutes?
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 01:50
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:
I tried to watch his Mass Effect Andromeda review and he dropped multiple homophobic and ableist slurs into his rant before he could even start to talk about why the game was bad. Not exactly chomping at the bit for his hot take.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 01:55
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:I tried to watch his Mass Effect Andromeda review and he dropped multiple homophobic and ableist slurs into his rant before he could even start to talk about why the game was bad. Not exactly chomping at the bit for his hot take. His TLJ hot take: "SJWs ruined Star Wars!"
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 02:13
|
|
|
HEY HERE'S SOMETHING THAT ISN'T ABOUT loving STAR WARS THE REGULAR DOG IS BACK AND ITS TIME TO TALK ABOUT THAT CHRISTMAS SONG YOU ALL HATE, NO NOT THAT ONE THE OTHER ONE
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 02:20
|
|
|
I Before E posted:Netflix Light is a high school Incel with Milo hair who gets recruited by Tyler Durden/Pepe into the fantasy of cleansing society by purging undesirables but learns that he can't be both the Nietzschean ubermensch remaking morality in his own image and a middle class nobody. He has no moral conflict with Ryuk or Mia, he's just afraid of consequences. He's a compete coward piece of poo poo and it's hilarious. I mean yeah that could be okay in its own right but it's kinda horrible as adaptation, it almost completely throws out what the original was going for
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 03:06
|
|
|
Sanguinia you sound like a good DM
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 03:15
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:I tried to watch his Mass Effect Andromeda review and he dropped multiple homophobic and ableist slurs into his rant before he could even start to talk about why the game was bad. Not exactly chomping at the bit for his hot take. Mokinokaro posted:His TLJ hot take: "SJWs ruined Star Wars!" Alt-right furries are the weirdest friggin' thing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 03:15
|
|
|
I guess thats a dorky way of saying i pretty much agree
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 03:16
|
|
|
A Gnarlacious Bro posted:Sanguinia you sound like a good DM A Gnarlacious Bro posted:I guess thats a dorky way of saying i pretty much agree Assuming these two posts are related, Thanks!  (I've only ever DM'd a pen-and-paper game once but everyone said I did a good job, so there's that for you.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 03:22
|
|
|
Augus posted:I mean yeah that could be okay in its own right but it's kinda horrible as adaptation, it almost completely throws out what the original was going for I have no investment in the source material so I take it on its own terms.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 03:36
|
|
|
Augus posted:I mean yeah that could be okay in its own right but it's kinda horrible as adaptation, it almost completely throws out what the original was going for Yeah, it goes for something different, which is imo a good thing
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 04:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 23:02 |
|
|
I Before E posted:I have no investment in the source material so I take it on its own terms. On its own terms, lets assume that Light was characterized the way he was for a Kylo Ren type reason, to ensure the audience saw him as an unlikable person with few if any redeeming qualities so that when his sociopathy was revealed nobody would gloss over it because he's dreamy, as happened with the original. Let's further assume that him being pushed along and "corrupted," by outside forces like Misa is, as some have suggested, just kind of a smoke screen for the fact that he really was that much of a monster all along, and that we should not take him at his word that things have gone further than he wanted because of things outside his control. I can accept all that, its a reasonable adaptation of the source material and takes it in an interesting direction. So why does the movie end with his father tacitly approving of what he's done? Does this not undermine everything about the story? L having the Death Note page in his hand at that moment of supreme desperation, knowing Light has escaped suspicion, and choosing not to use it, that's powerful, that backs up the movie's message. Light being caught red-handed by his father and suffering no consequences? That's loving up your work on its own merits outside any attachment to its source IMHO.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 05:15
|
|