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The Walrus posted:SwissCM is right. 2.0 devices will be compatible with 1.0 emitters, 2.0 emitters are not back compatible with 1.0 devices. this is because (among other things) the 2.0 emitters and devices want to sync on the laser sweep, rather than having a dedicated 'flash' to sync. Yes but isn’t it only sort of compatible with 1 of 3 sensor types? So really it’s kinda compatible but not full? Like if pimax don’t add sensor 3 or whatever, it won’t work with 2.0? To me it more sounds like “who the gently caress knows we shouldn’t worry til it’s really released “ kind of deal. Swear to god if one more pimax preorder person try’s to say the 8k is next gen again. Arrgggggg
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Dec 27, 2017 23:11
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Lemming posted:Only technically, it's not what everyone means/thinks of when they say it. What people clearly mean is the tracker is self contained and doesn't require any outside devices. I haven't heard a better shorthand for it. Since when? As far as I know, people talk about standalone devices more. Even the OP talks about how Vive is inside-out and Rift is outside-in.
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Dec 27, 2017 23:14
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PerrineClostermann posted:Since when? As far as I know, people talk about standalone devices more. Even the OP talks about how Vive is inside-out and Rift is outside-in. More or less since the Windows stuff has self contained inside out tracking working in a consumer product, before that it all required external devices of some sort.
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Dec 27, 2017 23:16
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Surprise Giraffe posted:Would tracking really be a challenging part of the tech to get right still? There's a lot of companies that seem to have cracked it in the past year. Probably not, but I tried it a year ago at CES and it was very much an early prototype. The horizontal FoV was fantastic, but the faux-"8k" wasn't really working well at the time. I'll probably do a VR writeup post-CES.
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Dec 27, 2017 23:18
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I understand the benefit of inside out, but what is the whole advantage of the next gen tracking to an end user? I have a Rift and haven’t used a Vive, for reference. Either way I have not a single time thought that tracking was anything but perfect beyond instances where I lose tracking because I don’t have a third sensor behind me yet. I can’t see how Vive’s “lighthouse” provides me any additional benefit over the current set up. More resolution? I can’t see us getting anything super meaningful out of finer movements yet until the software matures. I can imagine hand-tracking without controllers, and I bet it’s generations from being able to handle say a virtual-reality keyboard. What’s the step between that and today? Fewer sensors/better coverage or range? A benefit especially for room scale, but again I wonder if you don’t immediately hit other bottlenecks like wires being too long for the play space (and then creating either bandwidth issues, or latency+power if you go wireless). I’m probably glossing over something? I’m in product development and with my current set of knowledge I’d be trying to make it look better (fix blur, screen door, peripheral blurry ness) as much as possible while either fixing or improving demand on hardware. That’s what has the wow factor and the demand on hardware either improving or staying static expands your market to more than 980/1080 users. E: for clarity I assume Inside out meant the tracking was done solely by the headset and didn’t need additional hardware. Maybe I’m misunderstanding?
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Dec 27, 2017 23:24
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Anime Store Adventure posted:I understand the benefit of inside out, but what is the whole advantage of the next gen tracking to an end user? I have a Rift and haven’t used a Vive, for reference. Either way I have not a single time thought that tracking was anything but perfect beyond instances where I lose tracking because I don’t have a third sensor behind me yet. I can’t see how Vive’s “lighthouse” provides me any additional benefit over the current set up. That's probably the big thing people want to avoid.
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Dec 27, 2017 23:30
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Setting up the room is kind of a crappy process with the current solutions and is probably a fairly big hurdle to widespread adoption. Not everyone wants wires running across the room or enjoys worrying about knocking the lighthouse in the corner a fraction of a inch.
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Dec 27, 2017 23:36
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Not needing any external setup is a huge, huge, huge win. The experience of setting up the Microsoft headset and a Rift or Vive (talking about the whole process, setting up sensors/lighthouses, etc), is night and day. With the Windows one you just plug it in, walk it around your space, then put it on your head. The setup for the other two seems absurd in comparison. The headset and controllers are garbage, but, you know, Microsoft.
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Dec 27, 2017 23:37
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I guess I’m enough of a fiddler that setting up the sensors and getting a third doesn’t at all phase me. I forget most a lot of people aren’t willing or able to mess with tech and let a rats nest of wires be all over. Aren’t people buying VR so they don’t have to clean their real room, and can live full time in the virtual space? No? Just m-nevermind, I’ll see myself out.
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Dec 27, 2017 23:43
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If we're talking inside out that doesn't need lighthouses and just the headset that seems like a pretty big deal. I just cleared my office to have a big open space for VR but it was kind of a pain in the rear end and I left it that way. I know 3 people with VR setups (2 vive and 1 rift) who have to take down their setups and then they spend months talking of how they want to play some VR game but don't want to bother with putting everything back up. When I show people VR I'd rather take them into the living room but hauling PC + sensors in there and then having to set it all back up when they leave is just too big of a pain. Plus you have people who setup their sensors better for sitting for sims and then if they want to play something more active its setup time again. The amount of space you need is already a pisser but setup fiddle exaggerates the problem.
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Dec 27, 2017 23:48
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wyoak posted:Setting up the room is kind of a crappy process with the current solutions and is probably a fairly big hurdle to widespread adoption. Not everyone wants wires running across the room or enjoys worrying about knocking the lighthouse in the corner a fraction of a inch. Dunkey nailed it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z55rJznqF3E
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Dec 27, 2017 23:49
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FuzzySlippers posted:If we're talking inside out that doesn't need lighthouses and just the headset that seems like a pretty big deal. I just cleared my office to have a big open space for VR but it was kind of a pain in the rear end and I left it that way. I know 3 people with VR setups (2 vive and 1 rift) who have to take down their setups and then they spend months talking of how they want to play some VR game but don't want to bother with putting everything back up. When I show people VR I'd rather take them into the living room but hauling PC + sensors in there and then having to set it all back up when they leave is just too big of a pain. When I still only had a Vive I knew at the time I would have played it like twice as much if it wasn't so annoying to put the headset on and take it off. Even something as seemingly inconsequential as an extra ten seconds or so to put it on your head (push cable through head strap, make sure headphones aren't tangled, put on headset, pull low the back, pull the cable tight, put on headphones) creates a lot of extra friction that really adds up. Right now the setup is such a huge barrier, and the PC thing like you said isn't going to be solved by it either. Carmack nailed it with the focus on mobile, and I'm pretty confident at this point that the first really widely successful, mainstream headset is going to be fully self contained, including computing and tracking and tracked controllers, and oh hey Oculus is working on that specifically as their next big thing huh
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Dec 27, 2017 23:56
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Lemming posted:Right now the setup is such a huge barrier, and the PC thing like you said isn't going to be solved by it either. Carmack nailed it with the focus on mobile, and I'm pretty confident at this point that the first really widely successful, mainstream headset is going to be fully self contained, including computing and tracking and tracked controllers, and oh hey Oculus is working on that specifically as their next big thing huh Ain't no one going to be able to afford it if it has its own CPU. People can't even afford a brand new computer and headset as is.
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Dec 28, 2017 00:04
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Lemming posted:More or less since the Windows stuff has self contained inside out tracking working in a consumer product, before that it all required external devices of some sort. How well do controllers work with inside out devices?
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Dec 28, 2017 00:05
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Thor-Stryker posted:Ain't no one going to be able to afford it if it has its own CPU. People can't even afford a brand new computer and headset as is. The Oculus Go is gonna be $200 and that's more or less gonna be equivalent to a GearVR. I don't think it's totally out of reach. You'd have to make compromises on the software side but to be honest I think it's doable. Truga posted:How well do controllers work with inside out devices? I have a Samsung Odyssey and to be honest, this one is not great. BUT - if the FOV was a little bit wider, and games took the limitations into account, I think they'd be good for 95% or more of use cases. If you play something like Space Pirate Trainer, it works pretty much fine for the most part, you can see your hands kind of snap into place at the edges of your vision, but you are still only doing things usefully in the areas where you can see your hands. Echo Arena would 100% not work with them, but that's the only one I can't think of some adaptation or work around that would work well enough, and even then if you had a headset with cameras in the back I think it would work as well.
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Dec 28, 2017 00:10
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Good to know it seems to work well enough!
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Dec 28, 2017 00:17
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Lemming posted:The Oculus Go is gonna be $200 and that's more or less gonna be equivalent to a GearVR. I don't think it's totally out of reach. You'd have to make compromises on the software side but to be honest I think it's doable. Oh joy, another Cellphone-like VR device that people will buy and then never use. I've tried both the GearVR and Daydream and I can say they're pretty pointless. Of all the people I know that have them, none of them have touched them since the first week they received it.
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Dec 28, 2017 00:31
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I guess I was lucky with my office set up for VR. I did shift my furniture to another wall just to make extra room, but I have a tall desk that’s probably ~6’ wise with about a 6’ height shelf that the two oculus sensors can sit on the edge of and be pointed mostly downward, which catches both elite/dirt and other sitting games, but gives me about a 6 foot deep by 8-10foot wide play area. I do think I need a third sensor for the back issue but that would be the only “challenging” one. The rest has been plug in and forget.
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Dec 28, 2017 00:31
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Thor-Stryker posted:Oh joy, another Cellphone-like VR device that people will buy and then never use. I've tried both the GearVR and Daydream and I can say they're pretty pointless. Of all the people I know that have them, none of them have touched them since the first week they received it. They're all liars, they use it to watch porn.
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Dec 28, 2017 00:37
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Thor-Stryker posted:Oh joy, another Cellphone-like VR device that people will buy and then never use. I've tried both the GearVR and Daydream and I can say they're pretty pointless. Of all the people I know that have them, none of them have touched them since the first week they received it. I can't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure in some of the talks they did at OC4 they identified that people who use the GearVR actually use it quite a bit. A big point of friction there is needing to take your phone out and put it in the headset, as well as needing to finagle headphones. Go has everything together, and I imagine that will make people use it even more. If you're more used to Rift/Vive stuff then yeah it's going to feel more limited, but the point I was making there was that the cost ($200) was pretty low, and I imagine that upgrading to hardware that could also handle the inside out tracking would probably not be an insane amount, so you could get a Santa Cruz like device for I dunno, $400-$500 over the next few years? And it would have everything self contained, so that would be the whole price for everything.
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Dec 28, 2017 00:38
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Lemming posted:The Oculus Go is gonna be $200 and that's more or less gonna be equivalent to a GearVR. I don't think it's totally out of reach. You'd have to make compromises on the software side but to be honest I think it's doable. Wonder how much use Gear VR gets. Its cheap and simple but isnt it really limited? I could see a kid being fascinated with that but the novelty would wear off otherwise. VR has to get more visually impressive with cooler apps before anything else I reckon. The wow factor get bottlenecked by obvious screen/optics limitations (and the software/peripherals). Edit: ^^^ I project gud then Surprise Giraffe fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Dec 28, 2017 |
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Dec 28, 2017 00:47
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Lemming posted:I can't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure in some of the talks they did at OC4 they identified that people who use the GearVR actually use it quite a bit. A big point of friction there is needing to take your phone out and put it in the headset, as well as needing to finagle headphones. I'd have to see the study just because I assume it would be extremely biased considering OC4 is an event created by Oculus, for Oculus, to sell Oculus concepts. Course everything I've heard is hearsay as well, but no one really complained about 'having to throw their phone in' the headsets. The consensus for my group was the fact that cellphone VR is just a novelty if you don't have 1:1 controllers. I'm glad they're building as it's another step forward in tech, but it just seems like a lovely niche that's stuck between PC-VR and Mobile AR.
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Dec 28, 2017 01:09
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Thor-Stryker posted:I'd have to see the study just because I assume it would be extremely biased considering OC4 is an event created by Oculus, for Oculus, to sell Oculus concepts. Course everything I've heard is hearsay as well, but no one really complained about 'having to throw their phone in' the headsets. The consensus for my group was the fact that cellphone VR is just a novelty if you don't have 1:1 controllers. Carmacks tech talk at OC4 talked a ton about how they are working on refining the Oculus Go and why they are shooting for something more than just a self contained Gear VR. Its a really good tech talk as he is known for and I kind of want to get an Oculus Go.
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Dec 28, 2017 01:42
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Anime Store Adventure posted:I understand the benefit of inside out, but what is the whole advantage of the next gen tracking to an end user? I have a Rift and haven’t used a Vive, for reference. Either way I have not a single time thought that tracking was anything but perfect beyond instances where I lose tracking because I don’t have a third sensor behind me yet. I can’t see how Vive’s “lighthouse” provides me any additional benefit over the current set up. My play-area is 4m x 3m and my 2 lighthouses are about 5.5m apart. I don't get tracking issues. You'd need like, 8+ rift sensors to get that kind of setup, and have wires running everywhere, with like 3 extra USB cards.
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Dec 28, 2017 02:32
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Alpha Phoenix posted:My play-area is 4m x 3m and my 2 lighthouses are about 5.5m apart. I don't get tracking issues. Not even close. My play area on my rift is about 10ft by 13ft and my 4 sensors cover it flawlessly. I also don’t get tracking errors when I do a rifle grip and point at a corner where a lighthouse would be like so many Vive users experience.
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Dec 28, 2017 02:38
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rage-saq posted:Not even close. Exactly. 4 is enough for a giant rear end area and 3 can pretty well do it. My 9x9 is covered fantastic with 3. Trying to think of the last time I had actual tracking problems. I guess theres technically a spot in the corners if i put my nose into it that it loses my controller if its in front of me. I doubt a lighthouse would get that spot tho. Alpha Phoenix posted:My play-area is 4m x 3m and my 2 lighthouses are about 5.5m apart. I don't get tracking issues. You mean, 3-4 sensors..... Max...
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Dec 28, 2017 03:01
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Alpha Phoenix posted:My play-area is 4m x 3m and my 2 lighthouses are about 5.5m apart. I don't get tracking issues. I don’t know if you are exaggerating or just haven’t looked into how many sensors you need. When you add rift sensors their effective area increases so you can’t just take the capabilities of one and then multiply it to figure out how many you need to cover a space. I don’t have a square space so the dimensions are not exact but I have roughly a 3x3.5 meter (some places longer some shorter) and three sensors cover it all flawlessly. There have been a lot of headaches along the way and steamvr is still giving me issue though so it does sound like the lighthouses have less problems. Edit: I also have no visible wires since the one extension wire is hidden for the 3rd sensor and my computer is right under the front two since it is a multimedia tv hooked up primarily to a tv.
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Dec 28, 2017 03:07
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Don’t know if anyone mentioned it but Super Hot VR is the Oculus deal of the day for $10. https://www.oculus.com/experiences/rift/1012593518800648/ I picked up a Rift while it was on sale yesterday so thanks to everyone in the thread that talked me into that instead of a PSVR. Figuring out cable management is going to be fun but I’m blown away at the experience over something like Cardboard.
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Dec 28, 2017 03:12
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What do you guys have your super sampling set to? I increased it to 1.5x, definitely an across the board improvement but not sure how high I could go and keep solid performance.
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Dec 28, 2017 03:53
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Moonshine Rhyme posted:What do you guys have your super sampling set to? I increased it to 1.5x, definitely an across the board improvement but not sure how high I could go and keep solid performance. It's dependant on the game, there's no magic number (though ~1.6x is where it stops being beneficial).
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Dec 28, 2017 04:00
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For those complaining about H3VR not explaining stuff, good news- Anton updated his video tutorial and is gonna post a bunch more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBaLc-W11jg It's still my favourite VR game. I think I'm at 60 hours total, a chunk of that thanks to the Meatmas update. I also do competitive shooting, and with the exception of sniping (which has been an ongoing issue for this game due to it's precise nature) it feels natural. Especially with the bullpups he added last year which just feel weird to reload.
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Dec 28, 2017 04:05
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SwissCM posted:It's dependant on the game, there's no magic number (though ~1.6x is where it stops being beneficial). So its in my head that 2.0 looks better than 1.6? Because I typically run anywhere from 2.2 to 1.8 most of the time depending on game, what I'm doing in the background, etc. I feel like when I'm playing things like stand out, it really helps at a distance. 300m + is a mother fucker with irons/holo when you cant make anything out in the distance. Moonshine Rhyme posted:What do you guys have your super sampling set to? I increased it to 1.5x, definitely an across the board improvement but not sure how high I could go and keep solid performance. Sort of answered above but really depends on game. Most of the time I leave steams at whatever I had it at last and if I notice frame rate issues ill drop it down. Id say I average 2.0.
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Dec 28, 2017 04:15
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EbolaIvory posted:So its in my head that 2.0 looks better than 1.6? I was wrong! It used to be 1.6, now its ~2.5. Valve changed the way scaling was calculated a while back and I had a brain fart.
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Dec 28, 2017 04:26
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Paingod556 posted:For those complaining about H3VR not explaining stuff, good news- Anton updated his video tutorial and is gonna post a bunch more. Agreed, I might be biased as someone who’s been playing H3 for about a year and a half now, but it really just feels right in a way that other gun games don’t. It has a hard time with first impressions but once it clicks, it really shows what VR is capable of in terms of immersive interactions
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Dec 28, 2017 05:02
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EbolaIvory posted:So its in my head that 2.0 looks better than 1.6? Generally people say that after 1.5 you start seeing diminishing returns with higher performance hits and less visual improvement compared to going from 1 to 1.5. A coupe of things that I though might be interesting to the thread. I read a weird suggestion about having task manager open to fix Steam vr performance issues for the rift. Well it fixed it and I have no idea why. So now I can give Orbus a fair chance - my previous assessment was from before the program went up on Steam for early access. Now that it is on Steam there are a lot more players around and that is great - makes it a lot more fun. Lots of people are chatting and helping with tips which is cool and different than the annoying people I had encountered before. They fixed a lot of the mechanics issues like bow stuttering so that’s great. I still don’t think it’s god’s gift to vr but my opinion of it has gone up. It is fun if you like mmos and I know it’s a cliche now for most of us but being in the game makes it really cool. I am encouraged by how much they have fixed up already and their support team is active and eager to help, take suggestions etc. I am still concerned about micro transactions in the long run but that isn’t unique to this game since it is all over the place in online games and essentially unavoidable in a modern mmo so I just hope they don’t take that too far when they do it. If anyone is in the game look me up - I’d like some people to play with. My name there and on most other games is blitzstrahl.
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Dec 28, 2017 05:26
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Does rift have anything like the Pucks coming out soon? I am really excited to try those (I am working on convincing the Gorn guy to add kicking people) and wondering if the Rift-verse is working on anything simpler.
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Dec 28, 2017 06:03
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SwissCM posted:I was wrong! It used to be 1.6, now its ~2.5. Valve changed the way scaling was calculated a while back and I had a brain fart. Thanks for the advice! I am gonna see how far I can get keeping it at 2.5x, got a decently beefy rig.
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Dec 28, 2017 06:30
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Have any of you had vr sickness and lost it over time? I wasn’t bothered much by it when I first got it but a month after getting the Rift I get it often now and it makes me feel sick for a couple hours or so afterwards which really sucks. Might be that I am playing more games with locomotion but I’m hoping that pushing through it and trying to do it often might make it go away eventually. If it doesn’t go away I’d rather avoid anything that makes me feel this lovely though and stick to more friendly stuff.
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Dec 28, 2017 06:38
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rio posted:I don’t know if you are exaggerating or just haven’t looked into how many sensors you need. Wildly exaggerating for comedic intent. I didn't expect so many people to jump down my throat over it, but here we are. edit: Maybe I didn't exaggerate enough. If I had said 12 do you think people would have thrown the same tier of shitfit?
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Dec 28, 2017 06:39
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rio posted:Have any of you had vr sickness and lost it over time? I wasn’t bothered much by it when I first got it but a month after getting the Rift I get it often now and it makes me feel sick for a couple hours or so afterwards which really sucks. Might be that I am playing more games with locomotion but I’m hoping that pushing through it and trying to do it often might make it go away eventually. If it doesn’t go away I’d rather avoid anything that makes me feel this lovely though and stick to more friendly stuff. I would suggest not trying to push through VR sickness. That's a great way to condition yourself into getting sick in VR. What kind of games are you playing? Are you playing joystick/touchpad locomotion games? I've seen people saying that playing as long as you can and stopping as soon as you feel ill is the best way to deal with it. Also, is it possible you aren't getting a good framerate? I find that some games end with me feeling off because the framerate wasn't hitting 90.
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Dec 28, 2017 07:01
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