|
Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Humanist is a really good warmonger group actually because of this, and also -2 unrest and -10 years of separatism. The added tolerance helps when conquering heathen/heretic land and the +2 max accepted cultures can be a really big boost to large, multicultural empires. you save 1120 monarch points taking it first rather than fifth
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 14:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 13:51 |
|
|
Hmm, as Ethiopia, is my first idea best economics, for that -10% inflation that's slowly suffocating my economy, religious for the sweet sweet CB,
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 14:23
|
|
|
double nine posted:Hmm, as Ethiopia, is my first idea best economics, for that -10% inflation that's slowly suffocating my economy, religious for the sweet sweet CB, I usually go economics or defensive first, then the other second. You get so many missionaries and enough conversion power from events and such that you don't need religious, and deus vult is too drat far away in my opinion. Since most of the land is low development down there, most provinces will only cost maybe 10 or do Diplo power to take without claims. Edit: you can live without the inflation reduction for a bit by not directly taking gold mines, and instead vassalise the countries who do have them! Don't annex then till your ready. Lagnar fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Dec 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 15:27
|
|
|
Lagnar posted:I usually go economics or defensive first, then the other second. You get so many missionaries and enough conversion power from events and such that you don't need religious, and deus vult is too drat far away in my opinion. I'm not sure my economy can handle that. Unless ... how much of the gold would go to me if I enable scrutage?
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 15:42
|
|
|
double nine posted:I'm not sure my economy can handle that. Unless ... how much of the gold would go to me if I enable scrutage? I believe scrutage is an extra 50%, but if you are developing for institutions (there are a handful of O.K. provinces there) then you should have plenty of cash. And, once you take Alexandra and such, you will have loads of money from trade. Edit: remember too that one of the estates has a 1/2 price inflation advisor aswell, so you can take the gold mines and use those until you have your ideas settled.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 15:47
|
|
|
Hah! Paradox Interactive just had a christmas thing on facebook where if you liked and commented you could win 100bucks in merch. Guess who just found out he won! I'm going to get sooo many crusader kings coffee cups. (There really isn't much cool poo poo in their store  )
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 16:04
|
|
|
oddium posted:you save 1120 monarch points taking it first rather than fifth Yeah, but you lose points by not taking Administrative, Religious or Innovative instead. If you want Humanist it's because you're taking lots of land, which means it's competing with Administrative and Religious as your first admin idea. Full administrative saves you 60 ADM/tech plus 25% of coring cost, easily thousands of ADM by the time you get to your fifth group. Religious saves you DIP instead, and makes Humanist less useful to boot. Hell, if you're not in Europe you'll probably save more than 1120 taking Economic, for institution seeding. Humanist is a great idea group, but its problem is that it's rarely the one you need most at any given time. It gets rid of rebels rather effectively, but rebels aren't usually the main constraint on your expansion, so you end up taking another idea group to solve a more urgent problem (like being able to win wars). It's kind of in the same boat as Innovative, Espionage or Naval: Good, but rarely good enough to actually take. At best it's your second ADM group and third idea group, and at that point you're hurting for lack of MIL ideas. Fourth or fifth is definitely more practical. Also Humanist ideas work best when you've got other bonuses to heretic and heathen tolerance, and no bonuses to tolerance of the true faith. Anything less than +3 tolerance gets you religious unity penalties, and you can't get to +3 with Humanist ideas alone. The other bonuses are still nice, but you end up being better off converting everyone anyway. Used to be that you could get the accepted culture threshold near to or below 0%, but the new (better) mechanic nerfed that one pretty hard. That said, Humanist did get a boost now that you can't just lower autonomy everywhere (edit: late game, that is). Basically, consider Humanist if you've already taken Administrative, you're not worried about your army strength, and your national ideas have both -coring cost and +tolerance. Mostly this means being the Ottomans or Mughals. It's always a luxury, though. double nine posted:Hmm, as Ethiopia, is my first idea best economics, for that -10% inflation that's slowly suffocating my economy, religious for the sweet sweet CB, Exploration if you can get to the east coast quickly. Sooner you can settle the Cape, the better. You can get to Comoros from Hafun (on the tip of the horn) if you've got Overseas Exploration or from anywhere on the Coast of Pepper if you don't (has to be connected to your capital, though). Religious isn't vital if you take conversion as your Coptic bonus, but you'll get a lot of use out of that CB if you take it. Econ is nice early on to deal with all that Mutapan gold and pays for itself with instution seeding, although the inflation reduction isn't so important once you lock down Zanzibar. Administrative's still good, but it's less vital when you're mostly taking low dev provinces. I think I went Economic/Exploration/Offensive for the first three in my Ethiopia run and that worked fine, but that was a while ago. Ethiopia's mostly a race to take the Zanzibar and Cape nodes before you get hosed from the north. Once you've done that you'll be too rich to die. Cuazl fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Dec 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 17:14
|
|
|
double nine posted:Hmm, as Ethiopia, is my first idea best economics, for that -10% inflation that's slowly suffocating my economy, religious for the sweet sweet CB, Economic and religious ideas aren't bad, but I'd rather focus on military ideas to be able to deal with my two main threats, the Mamluks and then the Ottomans. For your first three idea groups I would suggest Administrative, Defensive, and Offensive. Also -0.1 yearly inflation only saves you 3.75 admin points a year. That's nice, but not exactly crucial.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 17:36
|
|
|
really queer Christmas posted:From what I remember, I tried this and had some trouble. When I looked around on forums for tips, people had said it got nerfed months ago. look at this miscreant who does not know about caddo
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 17:42
|
|
|
I can say that the first hundred years for Nahuatl countries are a lot of fun, it takes the idea of always being at war to a ridiculous extreme. Like to the point where sometimes you want to truce break just to keep murdering people. Then you reform your religion and conquer everyone and wait around a hundred more years for white people to show up and teach you how to feudalism.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 17:57
|
|
|
Cuazl posted:Yeah, but you lose points by not taking Administrative, Religious or Innovative instead. If you want Humanist it's because you're taking lots of land, which means it's competing with Administrative and Religious as your first admin idea. Full administrative saves you 60 ADM/tech plus 25% of coring cost, easily thousands of ADM by the time you get to your fifth group. Religious saves you DIP instead, and makes Humanist less useful to boot. Hell, if you're not in Europe you'll probably save more than 1120 taking Economic, for institution seeding. yeah just devil's advocating but i was wrong anyway, it's 840 saved (4 full groups vs humanist then 3). admin's obviously better in the end. fifth idea group is 200 years in, at which point you would need 336 dev of fully stated provinces to get the equivalent from admin and i think around 550 from a more realistic state/territory mix. the institution seeding savings are significant too, at ~400 for the optimal 16 dev province. Cuazl posted:Humanist is a great idea group, but its problem is that it's rarely the one you need most at any given time. It gets rid of rebels rather effectively, but rebels aren't usually the main constraint on your expansion, so you end up taking another idea group to solve a more urgent problem (like being able to win wars). i don't really agree with this though. rebels are perennial, rebels are manpower and money, they're time wasted. and if you have rebels you are winning wars. humanism is the grease that keeps the war machine going and smooths down the speed bumps humanism... it's Good in the latter half
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 18:28
|
|
|
oddium posted:humanism is the grease that keeps the war machine going New thread title please.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 18:38
|
|
|
Lagnar posted:I usually go economics or defensive first, then the other second. You get so many missionaries and enough conversion power from events and such that you don't need religious, and deus vult is too drat far away in my opinion. Ethiopia has 0 trouble beating nations near them, I highly recommend religious first with exploration also a serious option.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 18:51
|
|
|
Honestly they should just remove Admin and fold it's bonuses into other idea groups. +5 states, -25% ccr, and -10% admins tech cost are just way too good to pass up. The rest of the ideas usually are pretty worthless. I don't think I've ever played a game where admin wasn't the best pick easily. Throwing the bonuses one each into the other groups would go a long way into making the idea groups more interesting.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 19:57
|
|
|
double nine posted:Hmm, as Ethiopia, is my first idea best economics, for that -10% inflation that's slowly suffocating my economy, religious for the sweet sweet CB, I just finished an Ethiopia game and I went exploration, defensive, religious, offensive, expansion for my ideas. Until I got offensive I was having to declare wars of opportunity on the ottomans though (waiting until they got bogged down in Europe or Russia). So if you just want to steamroll em, take defensive and offensive back to back.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 20:52
|
|
|
Shaman Ooglaboogla posted:Honestly they should just remove Admin and fold it's bonuses into other idea groups. +5 states, -25% ccr, and -10% admins tech cost are just way too good to pass up. The rest of the ideas usually are pretty worthless. I don't think I've ever played a game where admin wasn't the best pick easily. Throwing the bonuses one each into the other groups would go a long way into making the idea groups more interesting. Agreed, they could easily remove 1 of each type of idea group and juggle the good ideas around a bit and end up with something a lot more balanced. It royally sucks that there are still ideas which are almost 100% worthless in every game because the other ideas in that group are too good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 20:56
|
|
|
End of Ideas Guy run -- after getting the cheevo in the early 1700s I formed Persia and spent more time beating up on the Turks and Indians. It was silly to do this whole thing as a Zorostrian and a Persian, considering I started in South Africa, but whatever it was easy and fun. Spent the last 70 years just beating up on neighbors -- my real regret is that I eclipsed France (as a rival) and never got around to attacking them. Also I never attacked Yao because I was low on admin points toward the end, and consequently didn't get to color all of Africa in. I do kinda feel I'm out of fun things to do with this game, at least in single player. Oh well, it's been a nice 823 hours.  Oh, and I was a theocracy most of the game which is boring compared to monarchy. I guess there's no stab hits and you're guaranteed an heir but the events are rather dull. Lagnar posted:I believe scrutage is an extra 50%, but if you are developing for institutions (there are a handful of O.K. provinces there) then you should have plenty of cash. And, once you take Alexandra and such, you will have loads of money from trade. The nearest farmlands are in Egypt, so as Ethiopia I rushed up that way to start developing for institutions. There's a lot of good provinces up there if you can state the Egyptian land and accept the culture, and after all the Ottos are going to attack sooner or later. Vivian Darkbloom fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Dec 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2017 23:37
|
|
|
RabidWeasel posted:Agreed, they could easily remove 1 of each type of idea group and juggle the good ideas around a bit and end up with something a lot more balanced. It royally sucks that there are still ideas which are almost 100% worthless in every game because the other ideas in that group are too good. I nominate Economic/Espionage/Naval. Put some Eco ideas into Admin, some espionage into diplo/influence and some naval back into quantity, quality already has some ship stuff.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 00:42
|
|
|
Is there a way to keep Sweden loyal? I give them a gift, improve relations immediately, build up my army, but one of my rivals always supports their independence and they shoot up to 100% liberty desire. Their era bonus wouldn't offset that. I know Paradox is biased towards Sweden but still.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 01:18
|
|
|
I formed Bharat as Orissa, and now my units look like garbage. How can I just mod it so my Bharat units look like Orissa units? edit: nm got it some old mod changes all the old spear/shield india units into the specific Hindu ones. appropriatemetaphor fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Dec 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 02:18
|
|
|
Node posted:Is there a way to keep Sweden loyal? I give them a gift, improve relations immediately, build up my army, but one of my rivals always supports their independence and they shoot up to 100% liberty desire. Their era bonus wouldn't offset that. I know Paradox is biased towards Sweden but still. Go to subject interactions and hit the Support Loyalists button immediately after starting the game. It'll keep Sweden calm for a while if you can bear to spend the money for it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 03:06
|
|
|
Tahirovic posted:I nominate Economic/Espionage/Naval. Hell, just do anything to make the diplo groups more attractive and the military/admin groups less mandatory. All diplo has is Diplomacy (alternatively Influence if for some reason you're going to need to annex a lot of just huge countries, like with personal unions) and Exploration (If you're in a good position to take advantage of it). I sometimes grab Trade as a late pick if I wasn't in a good position for Exploration and I need merchants, but that's it for the diplomacy group.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 04:10
|
|
|
Mr. Fowl posted:Hell, just do anything to make the diplo groups more attractive and the military/admin groups less mandatory. I'm going to keep suggesting this until Paradox implements it - Espionage would be a much more convenient (late game) choice, if it had an idea that would let you do counter-espionage against everyone with one diplomat.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 04:34
|
|
|
Shroud posted:I'm going to keep suggesting this until Paradox implements it - Espionage would be a much more convenient (late game) choice, if it had an idea that would let you do counter-espionage against everyone with one diplomat. It kind of already does that with 0 diplomats. You get +33% foreign spy detection which is what counter-espionage diplomats do. The only thing it doesn't do is reduce their spy network construction by 50%, but in the end it means when you do use counter-espionage then you are extremely well-protected from that nation (unless they also have espionage ideas).
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 08:19
|
|
|
Mountaineer posted:Go to subject interactions and hit the Support Loyalists button immediately after starting the game. It'll keep Sweden calm for a while if you can bear to spend the money for it. Seriously. You're paying a pittance for keeping them securely beneath the naughty threshold.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 09:58
|
|
|
So I actually managed to get a Grenada game off the ground. Aragon has two thirds of castille and I have one third. Portugal is vassalized by england. Hellwar #1 Marocco and Aragon+Naples vs Me, Tunis and Tleclemen. I would've been dead a long time ago if it hadn't been for France subsidizing my war. So I have a question; How long can I keep this hellwar going? Aragon cannot take Granath because of mountains + extra defensive on my capital. But my allies can barely beat Marocco and they have us beat on the seas. I have like 5 loans even with france subbing me. I would like to win, but I think maybe I can get them down to only Marocco gaining poo poo in North Africa. What are the odds a rival France will pounce on a weakened Aragon?
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 11:29
|
|
|
If they have claims and Aragon's manpower gets very low then the chance is very high, it kinda depends on Aragon's allies too. The AI seems to be very opportunistic, it calculates how hard a war is and if it's easy enough it'll go for it. Pretty much every hellwar I've fought against big nations like the Ottomans, others jumped in once they were in bad enough shape. They also jumped me if I was in bad enough shape.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 14:15
|
|
|
Tahirovic posted:If they have claims and Aragon's manpower gets very low then the chance is very high, it kinda depends on Aragon's allies too. The AI seems to be very opportunistic, it calculates how hard a war is and if it's easy enough it'll go for it. Pretty much every hellwar I've fought against big nations like the Ottomans, others jumped in once they were in bad enough shape. They also jumped me if I was in bad enough shape. Good thing nobody else can jump me then! Going to camp Tariq and Granatha. Bleed them dry. France is at peace, is a rival and has claims. The only really bad thing about this is that France will totally rival me after they destroy Aragon.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 14:57
|
|
|
How do you guys balance tech levels with ideas when not playing in europe? I'm playing as Bharat and I'm current with tech, but at this point it costs around 1200 mana per level, which I basically get if I spend nothing from one level to the next. Needless to say I've got barely any ideas. I'm a couple Mil levels above my nearby rivals, but they've filled out offensive ideas and the like. I don't seem to stomp them or anything.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 00:36
|
|
|
Personally I focus more on not letting anyone get AHEAD than on maintaining an expensive lead, but also at that point you might want to consider developing for institutions or conquering some territory near the Mameluks. (Mameluks are often friendly with Cyprus which is often friendly with venice or if not is friendly with the knights which is friendly with venice, there's a chain which means that the Mameluks tend to be the route Renaissance at least takes to make its way to the indian ocean.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:11
|
|
|
appropriatemetaphor posted:How do you guys balance tech levels with ideas when not playing in europe? I'm playing as Bharat and I'm current with tech, but at this point it costs around 1200 mana per level, which I basically get if I spend nothing from one level to the next. Needless to say I've got barely any ideas. I'm a couple Mil levels above my nearby rivals, but they've filled out offensive ideas and the like. I don't seem to stomp them or anything. Seed your institutions, jeez. You're current in tech but you're literally 100 years behind Europe for institutions.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:27
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:Seed your institutions, jeez. You're current in tech but you're literally 100 years behind Europe for institutions. The times I've tried that I just end up super behind in tech, since I dump everything into dev while everyone around me just techs up. As one of the Japan minors I think I ended up ~5 techs below Ming and just couldn't catch up. reignonyourparade posted:Personally I focus more on not letting anyone get AHEAD than on maintaining an expensive lead, but also at that point you might want to consider developing for institutions or conquering some territory near the Mameluks. (Mameluks are often friendly with Cyprus which is often friendly with venice or if not is friendly with the knights which is friendly with venice, there's a chain which means that the Mameluks tend to be the route Renaissance at least takes to make its way to the indian ocean.) For grabbing territory closer to Mamluks, when is that supposed to happen? Like do you just no-CB on someone and grab 1 province? For developing is there some process? Or do you literally just start dumping points in a province the second Renaissance spawns in europe?
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:42
|
|
|
Don't spend mil points on it then. And stack more development cost modifiers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:47
|
|
|
You've probably spent more monarch points in penalties trying to keep up without institutions than you'd have to spend just seeding the institutions.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:51
|
|
|
appropriatemetaphor posted:The times I've tried that I just end up super behind in tech, since I dump everything into dev while everyone around me just techs up. As one of the Japan minors I think I ended up ~5 techs below Ming and just couldn't catch up. In India you should have some Farmlands provinces which give a development discount, there's universities, and there's a bunch more you can get. https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Development#Stacking_development_cost_modifiers Being a little behind in Admin and Diplo tech isn't that bad, you'll just have less money to throw around. It's not a big deal to take some loans for the purposes of expanding up to your state limit, too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:55
|
|
|
Raichur Doab is almost the ideal province for seeding an institution. It's farmland, doesn't have any climate penalties, and it produces cloth. Coromandel is another great option. It has a tropical penalty, but it's also a center of trade, and it shares a sea zone with a lot of other good provinces which lets the institution spread faster. If I was playing in India, I'd do Renaissance, Colonialism, and Printing Press in Coromandel, Tanjore, and Tondainadu respectively. The other institutions you don't need to worry about seeding.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:06
|
|
|
appropriatemetaphor posted:For grabbing territory closer to Mamluks, when is that supposed to happen? Like do you just no-CB on someone and grab 1 province? If it comes down to it, yeah you might be best off no CBing but take a look of any Arabian minors have allies in India. Ideally a coastal one so you can actually core but in a pinch you're both in Asia you can use a vassal to core off of.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:21
|
|
|
Game's on sale right now on Steam and I've had my eye on it for awhile. Thinking of pulling the trigger. Read through the great OP and am starting to watch the linked video tutorials to get a better sense of the game but it seems pretty fun and interesting. I'm coming at this after reading a bunch of history of global trade and so basically, I want to try roleplaying as Venice and then other trade nations. Trying to work out which expansions are the ones to get for that. Seems like: * Common Sense & Art of War because they're both great. * Rights of Man because it will be more fun to have more internal politics. * Wealth of Nations and or Res Publica? I can't really tell which of these but it seems like I should get one or both? All advice welcome.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 04:44
|
|
|
double nine posted:Hmm, as Ethiopia, is my first idea best economics, for that -10% inflation that's slowly suffocating my economy, religious for the sweet sweet CB, Religious isn't that useful for Ethiopia. The CB doesn't benefit you that much because all of the territory is bad, so the AE and diplo costs are pretty low. Furthermore, by mid-game you get tons of missionaries and religious conversion bonuses from other sources (because of your religion, from events, and because you can take various religious centers). So you'd be sinking tons of admin points into a pretty mediocre set of ideas for your country Economics isn't that useful because the inflation reduction is basically the only idea that truly benefits you, and the bonus is almost inconsequential. The other ideas rely on you having good land, and you just don't (ie +10% production efficiency on a 1/1/1 doesn't count for much). The development cost reduction as a capstone idea is beneficial for those handful of times where you'll need to seed an institution, so it barely takes precedence over Religious if you're dead-set on picking between those two. But that situation is temporary; the idea group becomes completely useless by the mid-game, when you should already be pulling in ridiculous money from the east indies (due to trade income, which doesn't benefit from the Economics modifiers) Humanism, on the other hand, lets you stop worrying about rebels. This is huge as Ethiopia because your manpower reserves are dogshit and you need to save those bodies for much bigger threats (Mamluks and latter Ottomans). Plus your strategy should be to eventually leech money from the east indies, and Humanism helps with that way more than the others. And like you said, the monarch point discounts are also good, plus having +2 accepted cultures is actually really great and commonly underappreciated. These are all bonuses that start out good and actually get better as the game goes on, whereas the other groups lose their luster (when you're Ethiopia) Whatever you do, don't pick a Military group for your first idea set; in the early game those points are way more valuable as military tech than as military ideas, and you're already the biggest bully in your region at that point in the game anyway so there's no benefit to picking military ideas so soon. I think you're best off going Exploration -> Humanism -> Defensive, since Exploration lets you lock down the South African node and thereby secures all of the east indian trade income for yourself, but only if you've succeeded in gaining coastal access QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Dec 30, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 04:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 13:51 |
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:Raichur Doab is almost the ideal province for seeding an institution. It's farmland, doesn't have any climate penalties, and it produces cloth. Coromandel is another great option. It has a tropical penalty, but it's also a center of trade, and it shares a sea zone with a lot of other good provinces which lets the institution spread faster. If I was playing in India, I'd do Renaissance, Colonialism, and Printing Press in Coromandel, Tanjore, and Tondainadu respectively. The other institutions you don't need to worry about seeding. Lousy Vaginagar has all those! Renaissance is finally in 1 province, so I'm going to let that propagate and then see where Colonialism is at that point (it's currently around Afghanistan). Probably let that seed naturally too, then develop for printing press + global trade (if I can't spawn it, probably won't). I dumped my thousands of saved mana into finishing off a few idea groups, and I'm still ahead in tech. Although Ming is randomly cancelling trib status, then allying me, then breaking alliance. They've got like +150k on me so can't really fight them just yet.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 06:12
|
|