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SuperMechagodzilla posted:No more memes. No more takes. Don't tell me what to do. Also I wasn't memeing. 
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Dec 29, 2017 04:46
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Since we're on the topic, the CG hologram scene in Return Of The Jedi is actually a good example of where the prequel aesthetic comes from. This set from Episode 3:  is a synthesis of these sets from 1950s semi-classic This Island Earth:   and this set from Episode 5:  We should note that the prequel film has the best cinematography of the three, here. (And to be clear: that is a massive physical set that Ewan McGregor is walking around in.)
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Dec 29, 2017 05:01
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sassassin posted:I think the problem is that you are incapable of reading complexity or nuance. How else could you come to these conclusions having watched any of the Star Wars prequels? I am not the one who has made that conclusion this thread has with it's psuedomarxistic bullshit readings of the story. I don't frankly give a gently caress about the movies they are so bad I'd rather watch a Adam Sandler movie on Netflix than watch them. But everyone here clearly repeats things about the Jedi being just as bad as the Sith and deserving to all die and there's only one source to glean that kind of take from.
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Dec 29, 2017 05:02
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TheNewt posted:I am not the one who has made that conclusion this thread has with it's psuedomarxistic bullshit readings of the story. I don't frankly give a gently caress about the movies they are so bad I'd rather watch a Adam Sandler movie on Netflix than watch them. But everyone here clearly repeats things about the Jedi being just as bad as the Sith and deserving to all die and there's only one source to glean that kind of take from. Not to be rude but honestly what are you talking about “Psuedomarxistic”? SuperMechagodzilla posted:Since we're on the topic, the CG hologram scene in Return Of The Jedi is actually a good example of where the prequel aesthetic comes from. This is neat, I figured it was just a nice callback to that RotJ scene but those Island Earth sets are cool
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Dec 29, 2017 05:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
That gentleman sitting on the console in ROTJ has a Robot Chicken skit dedicated to him by way of making fun of EU writing (almost every character in every shot of the movies is given a backstory in one story or another): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdEUwHF7d7I Because of the way the scene is lit, I had no idea he was even a Star Wars character until I saw the skit and then went and looked for him.
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Dec 29, 2017 05:10
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Al Borland Corp. posted:SMG is being SMG and in his roundabout way saying there's no difference. The transition from that guy using the targeting computer to Luke trusting the force would be essentially the same tension if it was Luke himself. I mean, except it's not, since the tension generated by "you missed, go around again, nbd" is significantly different from "the veteran pilot in front of you just loving died, it's your turn now, good luck" SuperMechagodzilla posted:No more memes. No more takes. how in the world is revising the film from an earlier version not editing 
Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Dec 29, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2017 05:23
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This movie is truly amazing because after so many threads (spoiler and non) and multiple years, we went for an incredible stretch without prequel derails. I put TLJ up there with the best Star Wars movie (TPM) and especially so because of its place in the story. We all know and have discussed at length the meaning and cycle of the PT and OT, and we were presented with all the failures of the franchise and it’s stagnation in TFA (had to be re-established), but here you contrast with TFA and break out of the OT/PT cycle by truly freeing the slaves, explicitly calling out the shittiness of the Jedi that three prequel movies couldn’t convince fanboys of due to their head canon, etc. It was hilarious, beautiful, and a perfect compliment to the rest of the series.
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Dec 29, 2017 05:52
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Sunny Side Up posted:This movie is truly amazing because after so many threads (spoiler and non) and multiple years, we went for an incredible stretch without prequel derails. I put TLJ up there with the best Star Wars movie (TPM) and especially so because of its place in the story. We all know and have discussed at length the meaning and cycle of the PT and OT, and we were presented with all the failures of the franchise and it’s stagnation in TFA (had to be re-established), but here you contrast with TFA and break out of the OT/PT cycle by truly freeing the slaves, explicitly calling out the shittiness of the Jedi that three prequel movies couldn’t convince fanboys of due to their head canon, etc. It's almost like you think it's a Star trek movie.
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Dec 29, 2017 06:02
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Sunny Side Up posted:This movie is truly amazing because after so many threads (spoiler and non) and multiple years, we went for an incredible stretch without prequel derails. I put TLJ up there with the best Star Wars movie (TPM) and especially so because of its place in the story. We all know and have discussed at length the meaning and cycle of the PT and OT, and we were presented with all the failures of the franchise and it’s stagnation in TFA (had to be re-established), but here you contrast with TFA and break out of the OT/PT cycle by truly freeing the slaves, explicitly calling out the shittiness of the Jedi that three prequel movies couldn’t convince fanboys of due to their head canon, etc. Uhhh.. they didn't free any of the slaves in TLJ. Hell the last scene seems to take place at some point in the future with a slave describing events that happened in the movie, and wistfully looking out into space at a passing ship thinking "some day us slaves are gonna be free!" But this is in the future. No one ever came. The kid is still a slave. The characters in the movie showed more concern for space horses dignity than child slaves. Space horses actually get freed, child slaves get flashed a symbol and given an empty promise that goes unfulfilled.
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Dec 29, 2017 06:04
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It's basically a "what if" story, where instead of freeing Anakin, Qui-gon and Obiwan free the pods.
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Dec 29, 2017 06:12
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Schwarzwald posted:It's basically a "what if" story, where instead of freeing Anakin, Qui-gon and Obiwan free the pods. Qui Gonn: Master Yoda, this is the fastest pod I have ever seen, and agile as well. It was able to win Tattooine's premiere circuit driven by a mere child. Yoda: Too old it is. Sponsor this pod the Jedi will not. John Wick of Dogs fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Dec 29, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2017 06:14
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And they only freed the space horses because they needed them as transportation/a distraction. If they could have gotten back to their shuttle without them, they would have left them right there in the stables. Like Qui-gon, they didn't go there to free slaves. They just happened to free some out of convenience.
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Dec 29, 2017 06:15
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Acebuckeye13 posted:how in the world is revising the film from an earlier version not editing Tenzarin did not write anything about revision. He only described events in the plot of a film he hasn't seen. Even if you compare the plots of two different films, as you are doing, you are still not talking about editing. To be clear: you are writing as though tension comes from the plot - i.e. 'Luke only has one chance to blow up the death star' - instead of how editing techniques are used to generate tension. And that's because, of course, you can't talk about which editing techniques were used. You haven't seen how the assembly cut was edited. No-one has. dont even fink about it posted:That gentleman sitting on the console in ROTJ has a Robot Chicken skit dedicated to him by way of making fun of EU writing (almost every character in every shot of the movies is given a backstory in one story or another): Right, and we're getting to what people are talking about when they complain about "CGI" and contrast it with "practical effects": both scenes use the same 'amount' of digital effects, but the frame in Return of The Jedi is cluttered with extras and props like the console and the glass radar screens up on the ceiling. The cinematography is worse in a way that could be conflated with naturalism, but is really more like indifference. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Dec 29, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2017 06:16
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TheNewt posted:I am not the one who has made that conclusion this thread has with it's psuedomarxistic bullshit readings of the story. I don't frankly give a gently caress about the movies they are so bad I'd rather watch a Adam Sandler movie on Netflix than watch them. But everyone here clearly repeats things about the Jedi being just as bad as the Sith and deserving to all die and there's only one source to glean that kind of take from. The Jedi are bad, yes, but you misunderstand: they're not as bad as the Sith. The Sith are evil; the Jedi are, by turns, dupes, idiots, decadent, and weak.
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Dec 29, 2017 06:18
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Sunny Side Up posted:This movie is truly amazing because after so many threads (spoiler and non) and multiple years, we went for an incredible stretch without prequel derails. I put TLJ up there with the best Star Wars movie (TPM) and especially so because of its place in the story. We all know and have discussed at length the meaning and cycle of the PT and OT, and we were presented with all the failures of the franchise and it’s stagnation in TFA (had to be re-established), but here you contrast with TFA and break out of the OT/PT cycle by truly freeing the slaves, explicitly calling out the shittiness of the Jedi that three prequel movies couldn’t convince fanboys of due to their head canon, etc. The prequels weren't about the concept of the Jedi being lovely, though. To be a Jedi means to use the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack; it means to be humble in the face of that which you do not know; it means to be caring, tolerant, and empathetic. The prequels Jedi strayed from their noble creed, and so they failed. Then Luke comes into the picture, struggles with the same character deficiencies the old Jedi did, but ultimately overcomes them, ushering in the return of the true Jedi. That's the story. So it makes no sense for Luke to come back thirty years later and go, "Wait, the Jedi failed in their duty and allowed the Sith to take over the galaxy? Holy poo poo, I had no idea! gently caress the Jedi." It's just nonsensical and reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of the story. The ST can't be about moving away from the stagnancy of the old Jedi Order, because that already happened in the original movies. And the slaves were already freed in ROTJ. Leia frees herself from her enslavement to Jabba, Jabba and the slave empire he represents is destroyed, Anakin frees himself from his last master and is truly free for the first time in his life, the movie ends with scenes from across the galaxy of the formerly enslaved masses celebrating their newfound freedom from their oppressors. Anakin's dream in TPM that he "came back" and "freed the slaves" is finally and truly fulfilled on a universal scale.
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Dec 29, 2017 06:22
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The Jedi serve as a warning to us. The Sith are actively evil by way of sins of commission. Most people don't murder or rape or do the "big sins" and so they think themselves good. But the Jedi fall to passive evil; they are guilty of sins of omission. They're weak when they ought to be strong; they're blind when they should see; they're self-protective when they should be loving all. They are us.
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Dec 29, 2017 06:32
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Cnut the Great posted:The prequels weren't about the concept of the Jedi being lovely, though. To be a Jedi means to use the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack; it means to be humble in the face of that which you do not know; it means to be caring, tolerant, and empathetic. The prequels Jedi strayed from their noble creed, and so they failed. Then Luke comes into the picture, struggles with the same character deficiencies the old Jedi did, but ultimately overcomes them, ushering in the return of the true Jedi. That's the story. well said god I hated this loving movie
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Dec 29, 2017 06:33
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I promise to post more about The Last Jedi after I have watched it a second time. This I swear to you, or I'm not Something Awful Forums User Bongo Bill.
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Dec 29, 2017 06:40
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Cnut the Great posted:The prequels weren't about the concept of the Jedi being lovely, though. To be a Jedi means to use the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack; it means to be humble in the face of that which you do not know; it means to be caring, tolerant, and empathetic. The prequels Jedi strayed from their noble creed, and so they failed. Then Luke comes into the picture, struggles with the same character deficiencies the old Jedi did, but ultimately overcomes them, ushering in the return of the true Jedi. That's the story. Nah, ROTJ led to TPM. No one was freed. TFA is the bridge out of that cycle. Also, yes, gently caress the Jedi. The force, that connection between people, and the ability of all people to strive for the qualities you describe is more important and wonderful than regurgitating the ideal and legend that led to the story already told in the OT and PT. That’s the story in TLJ. All of the old is disposed and even the most dispossessed have hope.
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Dec 29, 2017 06:42
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Sunny Side Up posted:Nah, ROTJ led to TPM. No one was freed. TFA is the bridge out of that cycle. Also, yes, gently caress the Jedi. The force, that connection between people, and the ability of all people to strive for the qualities you describe is more important and wonderful than regurgitating the ideal and legend that led to the story already told in the OT and PT. That’s the story in TLJ. All of the old is disposed and even the most dispossessed have hope. this post is gibberish
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Dec 29, 2017 06:43
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:The Jedi are bad, yes, but you misunderstand: they're not as bad as the Sith. The Sith are evil; the Jedi are, by turns, dupes, idiots, decadent, and weak. Palpatine is evil, certainly, but beyond him we don't know much at all about Sith.
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Dec 29, 2017 06:47
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Cnut the Great posted:And the slaves were already freed in ROTJ. Leia frees herself from her enslavement to Jabba, Jabba and the slave empire he represents is destroyed, Anakin frees himself from his last master and is truly free for the first time in his life, the movie ends with scenes from across the galaxy of the formerly enslaved masses celebrating their newfound freedom from their oppressors. Anakin's dream in TPM that he "came back" and "freed the slaves" is finally and truly fulfilled on a universal scale. Slavery is not caused by literally two people. You are using 'slavery' and 'oppression' interchangeably. And, even then, all oppression in the universe hasn't ended with the death of the emperor. Like it's the basic Christ myth. Christ did not end slavery, poverty, and so-on when he died. That comes later. The 'New Republic' is not the Kingdom of Heaven.
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Dec 29, 2017 06:47
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Everyone has the force. Rose’s twin breathing deep before kicking the ladder is a beautiful example. That’s also why Finn and Rose can redeem Qui Gon’s sins of omission passively enabling slavery. And the beautiful thing is that with the culling of the rebels, they’re ripe for rebirth from royalists to truly caring about the proles.
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Dec 29, 2017 06:48
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Cnut the Great posted:The prequels Jedi strayed from their noble creed, and so they failed. Then Luke comes into the picture, struggles with the same character deficiencies the old Jedi did, but ultimately overcomes them, ushering in the return of the true Jedi. That's the story. You can have a universe where Luke wins over the dark side and never has to worry about it again, where the Rebels make a new galaxy with a new Republic free of all the problems of the old. You just have to stop the DVD after ROTJ, and there it is - a galaxy frozen in amber at the point where everything is at its best. But what the sequels posit is that if you do go forward, Luke will screw something up, the Republic will have troubles going forward, and how they handle those (and what they can teach to the next generation to help them not repeat those mistakes) is another test. And this seems to be the major point of disagreement, but I think that's an empowering message, and it's a very honest one in the same way the prequels are. No one generation will solve all the problems for the next, we're all a part of shaping our future, nothing - good or evil - will last forever, and even our failures point the way forward. Lord Hydronium fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Dec 29, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2017 07:03
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Sunny Side Up posted:Everyone has the force. Rose’s twin breathing deep before kicking the ladder is a beautiful example. That’s also why Finn and Rose can redeem Qui Gon’s sins of omission passively enabling slavery. And the beautiful thing is that with the culling of the rebels, they’re ripe for rebirth from royalists to truly caring about the proles. The movie ends with a force user in slavery. Like, he's not going anywhere for the foreseeable future and is content with slave duties (using the force to grab his broomstick) and with the fact there's six more movies to fuel his escapist fantasies. What you're doing is falling for lip service from an unreliable character. TLJ is not about smashing the past. It's about perpetuating the illusion of change while blue milking the familiarity of the franchise and pulling in another wave of ticket buyers. ruddiger fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Dec 29, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2017 07:06
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Any movie series that has to hedge its bets about how many more there will be is going to be intrinsically conservative, it's basic physics.
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Dec 29, 2017 07:19
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Sunny Side Up posted:Everyone has the force. Rose’s twin breathing deep before kicking the ladder is a beautiful example. That’s also why Finn and Rose can redeem Qui Gon’s sins of omission passively enabling slavery. And the beautiful thing is that with the culling of the rebels, they’re ripe for rebirth from royalists to truly caring about the proles. Ah yeah the easiest parallel was that she's Dak but she's also a bit of Luke grabbing the saber in the wampa cave
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Dec 29, 2017 07:38
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I have no idea who is the empire or rebels anymore. Did the senate just adopt the new empire or something? What I am trying to say is that we need more screen time of the galactic senate that attempts to mimic real life so these movies can all become dated.
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Dec 29, 2017 07:59
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So can someone explain this to me? How is it that they ramp up a series of hundred million dollar movies without having a main plotline all planned out for at least the main series? Like, I just don't understand how they can go to Rian Johnson and say "We don't know who Snoke is or Rey's parents or anything, do whatever you want". If they're investing so much into rebooting the largest franchise in the world and expecting billions of dollars in merchandising, why didn't they sit down at a table and come up with a throughline for the whole series, about how Snoke is so-and-so which ties into themes running throughout all three movies and maybe links to the OT, and how this is the epic main arc that defines the trilogy and shows Rey's growth from X to Y to Z and so on. I really don't understand how you put together a film like The Force Awakens with all these dangling plot threads without having clear plans for how they're going to get handled in the following movies, especially with so much money on the line. I honestly kind of like both Snoke being nobody important and Rey's parents being nobody important, but they should have done one or the other, not both at once. Those were the two biggest questions TFA left open, and I think cutting both those threads so unceremoniously makes the movies hang together a lot less. It feels like they brought another guy in to do his own thing with the story. e: are we still spoiling this stuff? Phenotype fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Dec 29, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2017 08:11
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Phenotype posted:So can someone explain this to me? How is it that they ramp up a series of hundred million dollar movies without having a main plotline all planned out for at least the main series? Like, I just don't understand how they can go to Rian Johnson and say "We don't know who Snoke is or Rey's parents or anything, do whatever you want". If they're investing so much into rebooting the largest franchise in the world and expecting billions of dollars in merchandising, why didn't they sit down at a table and come up with a throughline for the whole series, about how Snoke is so-and-so which ties into themes running throughout all three movies and maybe links to the OT, and how this is the epic main arc that defines the trilogy and shows Rey's growth from X to Y to Z and so on. I really don't understand how you put together a film like The Force Awakens with all these dangling plot threads without having clear plans for how they're going to get handled in the following movies, especially with so much money on the line. What do you need explained? They can make a poor product and it'll still make them a billion dollars. It'll be interesting to see if the one-two blow of TLJ and Solo has some kind of effect, but I really don't think it will. Disney knows Star Wars is practically an institution and they know what they can get away with. They know that the vast majority of the audience doesn't care if something is made well providing it makes them laugh and feel 'good'. Where, in TLJ, good is corporate cynicism. edit: Spoilering that before I get cat jail for three days again lmao
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Dec 29, 2017 08:14
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JJ and Rian talked about who Rey’s parents were and they came to the same conclusion. The only thing that got hosed up was Trevorrow not coming up with the script for 9. Otherwise they had an outline.
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Dec 29, 2017 08:19
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Phenotype posted:So can someone explain this to me? How is it that they ramp up a series of hundred million dollar movies without having a main plotline all planned out for at least the main series? They are moving towards a marvel formula where anything can happen because the story from one movie to the next has no connection or flow other than there are jedis, empires, rebels and chewbaccas.
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Dec 29, 2017 08:21
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I kind of got the impression that their intention was to steer subsequent episodes based on the reaction to Episode VII.
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Dec 29, 2017 08:24
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Tenzarin posted:They are moving towards a marvel formula where anything can happen because the story moving from one movie to the next has no connection or flow other than there are jedis, empires, rebels and chewbaccas. Well no, because the MCU has been structured out way better than this. You could tell they had a plan to go from Captain America/Thor/Etc. to Avengers to Avengers 2 showing the cracks starting to form to Civil War showing the team breaking up to Infinity War getting the team back together with bearded Cap. I'm not saying it was done super well, but you could see things like the detour to Wakanda in Avengers (2?) being done to set up Black Panther in Civil War. Milky Moor posted:What do you need explained? They can make a poor product and it'll still make them a billion dollars. It'll be interesting to see if the one-two blow of TLJ and Solo has some kind of effect, but I really don't think it will. But I mean, the cost of them just throwing out a random story and hoping the next guy can make some sense of it is virtually the exact same as planning out a series in detail. Like, when you're throwing literally a hundred million dollars into a project, it makes almost no difference to the budget if you hire a couple story guys to sit in a conference room for a few months with a bunch of notebooks and whiteboard markers. I just don't understand how such a big business decided to just wing it.
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Dec 29, 2017 08:28
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Phenotype posted:So can someone explain this to me? How is it that they ramp up a series of hundred million dollar movies without having a main plotline all planned out for at least the main series? Like, I just don't understand how they can go to Rian Johnson and say "We don't know who Snoke is or Rey's parents or anything, do whatever you want". If they're investing so much into rebooting the largest franchise in the world and expecting billions of dollars in merchandising, why didn't they sit down at a table and come up with a throughline for the whole series, about how Snoke is so-and-so which ties into themes running throughout all three movies and maybe links to the OT, and how this is the epic main arc that defines the trilogy and shows Rey's growth from X to Y to Z and so on. I really don't understand how you put together a film like The Force Awakens with all these dangling plot threads without having clear plans for how they're going to get handled in the following movies, especially with so much money on the line. Canon and overarching narratives don't actually matter. Commercial success is achieved via advertising, creating expectation, and steering the critical conversation (yes I've said the same thing three times).
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Dec 29, 2017 08:31
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Tenzarin posted:They are moving towards a marvel formula where anything can happen because the story from one movie to the next has no connection or flow other than there are jedis, empires, rebels and chewbaccas. it would actually own if they had space for movies in the setting that don't necessarily depend on others to exist. just interesting stories set in the star wars milieu would be fantastic
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Dec 29, 2017 08:32
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If Star Wars 11 in 2025 isn't about rebels v. empire then wake me up because that's all you're gonna get from now on.
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Dec 29, 2017 08:33
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exquisite tea posted:If Star Wars 11 in 2025 isn't about rebels v. empire then wake me up because that's all you're gonna get from now on. Dear god it better not be as bad as Attack of the Clones. I fell asleep when my friends wanted to see it again, it was opening day. It was nice not having to watch the factory part again though.
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Dec 29, 2017 08:41
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Tenzarin posted:Dear god it better not be as bad as Attack of the Clones. I fell asleep when my friends wanted to see it again, it was opening day. It was nice not having to watch the factory part again though. I wouldn't enjoy watching any movie twice in one day.
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Dec 29, 2017 09:01
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Phenotype posted:But I mean, the cost of them just throwing out a random story and hoping the next guy can make some sense of it is virtually the exact same as planning out a series in detail. Like, when you're throwing literally a hundred million dollars into a project, it makes almost no difference to the budget if you hire a couple story guys to sit in a conference room for a few months with a bunch of notebooks and whiteboard markers. I just don't understand how such a big business decided to just wing it. Maybe, but there is a cost there. The cost is in flexibility to respond to the audience. The OT didn't care about this and George Lucas during the PT didn't seem to either (or, if he did, in minor ways, such as cutting down Jar Jar's role). People said TFA was a safe but boring film. So, in comes TLJ with its slick colors and Not Your Daddy's Star Wars ideas, but the whole film is predicated on zigging where the OT zagged. Just as safe, but in a different manner. Like, imagine a world where Disney came up with some kind of in-depth Star Wars sequel trilogy treatment and it's set up with heaps of foreshadowing, plot threads and callbacks to the OT's themes that go beyond zagzigs. And then imagine if people hated it. But if you keep things a bit more nebulous, you can just massage the story here and there. You get the benefits of your audience doing wild theory-crafting to try and 'guess' the story without actually needing to worry about GokuSkywalker420 actually somehow figuring out that Rey Is A Kenobi or Snoke Is Sidious' Master. Sassassin is right. And even the RLM guys said that their expectation was that TLJ would be the film that allowed them to 'decide' on the sequel trilogy. Hell, I was the same way. I fell for Disney's marketing. I imagine Episode 9 will be some kind of cleverly designed reaction to TLJ's backlash.
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Dec 29, 2017 09:20
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