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Torquemada posted:So having guns makes people rob you? If I was an American thief, I’d do my best to rob unarmed people: much less chance of getting shot. Careful, that's a literal argument gun nuts use unironically.
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Dec 30, 2017 09:42
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Any second story man worth their salt uses a guntector to find unarmed targets for their B&Es.
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Dec 30, 2017 10:02
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Inescapable Duck posted:Like with most stereotypes, history and context matters. Asian accent jokes have a very long and very ugly history dating back to both shameless colonial exploitation of China and anti-Japanese WW2 propaganda which played up all manner of horrific stereotypes and slurs and was very widely disseminated.
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Dec 30, 2017 10:25
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Jedit posted:The "Completely Newscastered" on the scoreboard needs a bit of explanation, though. It's obviously rhyming slang for "plastered", but it came into use via ITN newsreader Reginald Bosanquet (also referred to by the song "Oh Bosanquet"). Bosanquet was suspected to be a heavy drinker because of his slurred delivery; after he died his co-presenter Anna Ford confirmed that he was an alcoholic and would often go on air drunk. Reginald Bosanquet was also one of the main inspirations for Henry in Drop the Dead Donkey.
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Dec 30, 2017 10:56
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Torquemada posted:So having guns makes people rob you? If I was an American thief, I’d do my best to rob unarmed people: much less chance of getting shot. Yup. But you don't know if they're armed. So you take a gun on your burglary, because you have to presume they are. If it turns out they do have a gun, you shoot them because you have to assume they're willing to use it. And yes, you do get the drop on them because they just woke up and don't know if you're armed while you're fully awake and prepared for them to be armed. Statistics have shown for decades that Americans who keep guns in the house are more likely to be killed during a break-in, and these are the reasons why.
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Dec 30, 2017 11:05
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Jedit posted:Yup. But you don't know if they're armed. So you take a gun on your burglary, because you have to presume they are. If it turns out they do have a gun, you shoot them because you have to assume they're willing to use it. And yes, you do get the drop on them because they just woke up and don't know if you're armed while you're fully awake and prepared for them to be armed. Statistics have shown for decades that Americans who keep guns in the house are more likely to be killed during a break-in, and these are the reasons why. unless.... 
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Dec 30, 2017 11:13
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Straight White Shark posted:I still feel this is basically a product of the times (the same stock character pops up elsewhere--see Ray Gillette on Archer, for example) and is going to feel more and more dated as time goes on. I feel it's likely coming from a place of love on Venture Bros. but it's still probably not going to look great in 5 or 10 years. Sort of on an Archer related note, isn't there a bit in Sealab 2021 where the characters are watching a Will and Grace show and a supposedly gay background character calls everyone out on watching the show, I think saying that in 20 years we'll see the gay characters on that show as the Amos and Andy of our generation?
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Dec 30, 2017 11:24
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Inescapable Duck posted:Like with most stereotypes, history and context matters. Asian accent jokes have a very long and very ugly history dating back to both shameless colonial exploitation of China and anti-Japanese WW2 propaganda which played up all manner of horrific stereotypes and slurs and was very widely disseminated. But in this regard, is it a completely Western thing? I used to watch a lot of anime and it seemed like even in the original Japanese audio there was a strange depiction in the designs and even the voice performances of characters that seemed to be Chinese that came across as a bit towards the comical or stereotypical in a way that I couldn't quite put my finger on. Turns out I might have been detecting this even if I couldn't understand the language TO detect it, perhaps? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyowa-go
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Dec 30, 2017 11:28
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I was trying for gentle sarcasm to point out a logical inconsistency, when I obviously should have linked a video of Jim Jeffries screaming “THEN THEY’RE NO loving PROTECTION THEN, ARE THEY?”
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Dec 30, 2017 11:33
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The Bloop posted:Making a joke about an accent or "doing" an accent just doesn't seem disparaging to me I guess. Racism is about negative stereotypes or harm. It seems to dilute the term when it applies to acknowledging that an accent exists. People tend to discriminate between privileged and non-privileged accents, and non-privileged accents tend to be associated with being less educated or outright stupid. You can see this within white groups when people talk about speaking "properly" or not, which usually means speaking a bland Standard American/Standard British with a learned accent (i.e. what people will often claim isn't an accent). The other end of the spectrum is generally strong regional accents, such as Scouse here or strong lower-class Southern accents in the US. Ching-chong Chinaman type accents are always non-privileged, so they perpetuate the idea that immigrants are less intelligent or educated. They do reflect a real group of people and how they speak, but when you see them on TV they're almost always played for laughs or in other marked contexts. Germans don't have the same problem - there's absolutely stereotypes about Germans and funny German accents which exist, but no-one who isn't deeply stupid bases their whole perception of Germany on them. There's also not groups of Indian comedians sitting around making up and voicing "funny white people" sketches, whereas the opposite happens all the time. Well apart from this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huSP7PtctC4
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Dec 30, 2017 11:45
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Torquemada posted:So having guns makes people rob you? If I was an American thief, I’d do my best to rob unarmed people: much less chance of getting shot. Having anything of value, anywhere in the world can make you a target. Doesn't matter much what or where. There is always gonna be someone wanting to take what you have. I keep my firearms in a safe in a locked room, and I'd prefer to think that it would deter or at least slow down a thief and prevent access. RagnarokAngel posted:Careful, that's a literal argument gun nuts use unironically. This is true. Some of the wingnuts have concocted entire fantasies based on killing "intruders" and "threats", and it's a little disturbing. It's best to avoid the fringe ones. Not all of us gun owners are like that.
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Dec 30, 2017 11:59
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My friend got shot because a robber saw his Razer mouse and keyboard with RGB lighting and assumed that my friend had the skills to kill him if he were given the chance. R.I.P. 369NoXsc0pe, brother..
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Dec 30, 2017 12:03
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The villain being Japanese in Tintin is justified given the Japanese invasion of China in the early 30's. It helps that this point onwards Herge started doing the research which helped elevate Tintin from his origin as a crudely-drawn pro-Catholic pro-Belgian propaganda piece. The only real flubs down the line is stuff like the Incas not knowing about Eclipses.
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Dec 30, 2017 13:10
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The Bloop posted:I'm like a woke super bleeding heart leftist pinko who doesn't miss a pride parade and thinks we should accept infinity refugees but I just can't get worked up over accent jokes. "As a white guy, let me explain what things are and are not racist. Listen up chinks, you're gonna need to hear this." Get over yourself. Let me put it this way; You're in a job interview. The guy interviewing you is Chinese. You spill your glass of water over the table. Do you think you are more likely to get the job if you "Oh! Sorry!" in your normal foghorn leghorn sounding voice, or do you go with "Ah! Me so solly, so solly!" in your best ching-chong chinaman impression? After all, if its not racist then he may appreciate your attempt to communicate with the heathen chinee in a way he understands. Of course not because that would be loving racist you idiot.
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Dec 30, 2017 14:53
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This is the same level of oblivious fuckery which leads to dumasses wearing blackface and then wondering why everyone is yelling at them.
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Dec 30, 2017 14:57
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The Simpsons even kinda lampshade their own stumblings over chinese caricatures and stereotypes. Kinda.
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Dec 30, 2017 15:03
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Inspector Gesicht posted:The villain being Japanese in Tintin is justified given the Japanese invasion of China in the early 30's. It helps that this point onwards Herge started doing the research which helped elevate Tintin from his origin as a crudely-drawn pro-Catholic pro-Belgian propaganda piece. The only real flubs down the line is stuff like the Incas not knowing about Eclipses. Yeah, the Japanese characters in that story still end up looking like racist caricatures though. He continued to improve afterwards, and the TV series makes a few changes too.
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Dec 30, 2017 15:26
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Racism is bad but I always laugh at “me so solly” and I probably always will
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Dec 30, 2017 15:27
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oldpainless posted:Racism is bad but I always laugh at “me so solly” and I probably always will Uhf isn't a great movie but https://youtu.be/RB2GboGOuTI
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Dec 30, 2017 15:30
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Doctor Spaceman posted:National Lampoon's European Vacation was on the other night and it's hard to find things in it that have aged well. It's the weaker of the four, but it's still decent. I still say "Big Ben! Parliament!" when showing the kids something interesting while on the road. The "hook" of the movie is that it lampoons European stereotypes. - The British are overly polite - The French are horribly rude - The Germans are pugilistic - The Italians are sexy and mysterious
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Dec 30, 2017 15:31
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SiKboy posted:"As a white guy, let me explain what things are and are not racist. Listen up chinks, you're gonna need to hear this." Get over yourself. Let me put it this way; You're in a job interview. The guy interviewing you is Chinese. You spill your glass of water over the table. Do you think you are more likely to get the job if you "Oh! Sorry!" in your normal foghorn leghorn sounding voice, or do you go with "Ah! Me so solly, so solly!" in your best ching-chong chinaman impression? After all, if its not racist then he may appreciate your attempt to communicate with the heathen chinee in a way he understands. Of course not because that would be loving racist you idiot. Holy loving poo poo you're a racist arsehole.
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Dec 30, 2017 16:59
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JediTalentAgent posted:Sort of on an Archer related note, isn't there a bit in Sealab 2021 where the characters are watching a Will and Grace show and a supposedly gay background character calls everyone out on watching the show, I think saying that in 20 years we'll see the gay characters on that show as the Amos and Andy of our generation? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYVngaUI6UA
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Dec 30, 2017 16:59
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This thread is definitely not aging well.
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Dec 30, 2017 17:04
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JediTalentAgent posted:Sort of on an Archer related note, isn't there a bit in Sealab 2021 where the characters are watching a Will and Grace show and a supposedly gay background character calls everyone out on watching the show, I think saying that in 20 years we'll see the gay characters on that show as the Amos and Andy of our generation? If you watched Will and Grace for any reason aside from Karen Walker then something is wrong with you.
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Dec 30, 2017 17:32
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Thanks to any serious replies. I suppose people with strong accents always sounded more intelligent to me because poo poo they know more languages than I do! Also where I grew up there were a lot of people with strong accents but they were the richest most successful people like doctors and lawyers and visiting professors and whatnot and their kids were usually the ones better than me in school subjects, so it was more a badge of honor than anything else. I still briefly get genuinely mistified when people ape a "bad" accent as evidence of dumbness because holy poo poo if you're so smart why don't you just speak in their language. I'll just say mea culpa that people are always worse than I give them credit for and it's best to avoid the entire shitshow lest you either accidentally perpetuate that poo poo or appear to be an rear end in a top hat. I never made the "verbal blackface" connection probably because I've never really thought about the topic much at all before. So, again thanks to the genuine replies.
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Dec 30, 2017 17:58
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My favorite Will and Grace story is how John Barrowman, who is gay, was told he was "too straight" to play Will.
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Dec 30, 2017 18:30
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Davros1 posted:My favorite Will and Grace story is how John Barrowman, who is gay, was told he was "too straight" to play Will. I don't get that at all. My exposure to Will & Grace is limited but isn't his character's whole thing is that he doesn't come off as cartoonishly gay as the other gay character on the show (I don't know his name)?
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Dec 30, 2017 22:46
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El Gallinero Gros posted:I don't get that at all. My exposure to Will & Grace is limited but isn't his character's whole thing is that he doesn't come off as cartoonishly gay as the other gay character on the show (I don't know his name)? Jack
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Dec 30, 2017 22:56
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sweeperbravo posted:Jack Okay, great. So if Will isn't supposed to be obviously gay in the TV sense of the word, and Jack is the character who DOES behave that way, what the hell were they looking for? I feel like I'm missing something or I just don't know enough gay people. Mind you, most of the gay folk I do know are lesbians so maybe there's a different dynamic I just don't see. Or maybe whoever told him that is full of poo poo in the type of way lawyers can only aspire to.
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Dec 30, 2017 23:07
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Mr.Tophat posted:The Simpsons even kinda lampshade their own stumblings over chinese caricatures and stereotypes. Kinda. Nah see, the Chinatown episode I was talking about came a few years after this episode.
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Dec 31, 2017 00:26
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Davros1 posted:My favorite Will and Grace story is how John Barrowman, who is gay, was told he was "too straight" to play Will. Oh, he's extremely straight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1XOfHax6Q8
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Dec 31, 2017 00:39
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Dodgeball: A True Underdog Story is on tv right now. The Lance Armstrong cameo has a fun new subtext.
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Dec 31, 2017 02:14
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"I'm sure this decision won't haunt you forever."
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Dec 31, 2017 02:19
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Mr.Tophat posted:The Simpsons even kinda lampshade their own stumblings over chinese caricatures and stereotypes. Kinda. Possibly a reference to the time Jerry Lewis made Mickey Rooney look sensitive and considerate in comparison. In 1980.
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Dec 31, 2017 02:58
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Where did the big teeth thing come from? That's part of the stereotype/racist caricature I just don't get.
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Dec 31, 2017 03:02
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Okay, great. So if Will isn't supposed to be obviously gay in the TV sense of the word, and Jack is the character who DOES behave that way, what the hell were they looking for? I feel like I'm missing something or I just don't know enough gay people. Mind you, most of the gay folk I do know are lesbians so maybe there's a different dynamic I just don't see. Wasn't Will & Grace the show where they had to dial back Will's homosexuality to the point where he couldn't even hold hands or kiss his partner because NBC wanted to boast about having a gay leading character but not one that actually acted like he was gay? And a shame about John Barrowman, the man is a freak and would have made that sitcom a lot more fun than it was. Oh well, guess he'll have to continue being one of the best Doctor Who supporting characters ever. 
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Dec 31, 2017 03:06
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A weird corollary to Asian racist stereotypes is that most every major Asian racial/national group is racist against all the others for various reasons (Chinese/Japanese/Korean especially) it isn't unknown for them to depict each other using horrendously racist Western stereotypes while giving themselves more depth.
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Dec 31, 2017 03:13
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Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:Wasn't Will & Grace the show where they had to dial back Will's homosexuality to the point where he couldn't even hold hands or kiss his partner because NBC wanted to boast about having a gay leading character but not one that actually acted like he was gay? And a shame about John Barrowman, the man is a freak and would have made that sitcom a lot more fun than it was. Oh well, guess he'll have to continue being one of the best Doctor Who supporting characters ever. That reminds me of DC Comics having a character that they boasted was the first gay character (Extrano), but not that you'd never know, since it was never mentioned in the comics.
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Dec 31, 2017 03:28
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Davros1 posted:That reminds me of DC Comics having a character that they boasted was the first gay character (Extrano), but not that you'd never know, since it was never mentioned in the comics. The character was clearly Extrano-eous. 
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Dec 31, 2017 03:30
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Lurkman posted:Possibly a reference to the time Jerry Lewis made Mickey Rooney look sensitive and considerate in comparison. In 1980. This should by on his 'in memoriam' segment at the Oscars.
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Dec 31, 2017 03:38
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