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Sanguinia posted:You're right of course. But the reason people consistently try to argue that X will or won't happen based on the lore is because while Nasu is never afraid to break a rule, he has a VERY consistent track record of showing his work. It's very rare for him to just toss an established rule out, or break it without explaining HOW it was broken, or go far out of his way to explain an exception. The Assassin-Hassan-Only rule is pretty much the only one I can think of, and even then Apocrypha is the only story where the rule is actually broken because every other story where non-Hassan Assassins appear doesn't use the Fuyuki Grail, and Apocrypha involves that system being modified by the two team failsafe, so even that has some cover. Does he, though? As I've said before I'm not at all deep in the lore but that sounds like a very post-hoc argument. Is he actually careful and consistent in his lore or is there just a very large group of people extremely invested in saying so, and thus highly motivated to find the exceptions that excuse the inconsistency? Chicken and the egg, I know, but still worthwhile to consider.
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Jan 1, 2018 11:56
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LornMarkus posted:Does he, though? As I've said before I'm not at all deep in the lore but that sounds like a very post-hoc argument. Is he actually careful and consistent in his lore or is there just a very large group of people extremely invested in saying so, and thus highly motivated to find the exceptions that excuse the inconsistency? Chicken and the egg, I know, but still worthwhile to consider. I mean, you are talking to the guy that had a mini-meltdown like one page ago about a potentially irreconcilable rule break with no apparent way to cover it absent a complete retcon or a major addition to the existing cosmology, so either I'm 100% the wrong person to ask, or I definitively disprove it by not willfully blinding myself due to my investment when a really blatant one came along. Take that for whatever you think its worth. I will say I've been an obsessive lore nerd in a ton of different fandoms since I was like, 8 years old. I like to think I'm pretty good at detecting bullshit vs the real deal. But if I wasn't I guess I'd have no way of knowing. 
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Jan 1, 2018 12:24
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~Just repeat to yourself "It's just a game, I should really just relax."~
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Jan 1, 2018 12:46
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Just saying the summoning system used by the new guys is also different from the one in chaldea so they can just handwave that limitation. Also it might not be the more famous Anastasia we are thinking about, and one more immediately related to Ivan
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Jan 1, 2018 13:03
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relax and roll your gachas
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Jan 1, 2018 13:03
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boredsatellite posted:relax and roll your gachas Not until [Chaotic.Bride] is out
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Jan 1, 2018 13:04
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Which non-5* craft essences are worth keeping? I just got 4* necromancy for my tank
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Jan 1, 2018 13:38
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Billzasilver posted:Which non-5* craft essences are worth keeping? I just got 4* necromancy for my tank Shroud of Magdalene Iron-Willed Training Divine Banquet After Party Order And also the ones that provide the same effects as 5*s but lesser if you don't have the 5* equivalents. Projection, Imaginary Element, etc.
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Jan 1, 2018 15:07
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Pureauthor posted:Shroud of Magdalene Why? Is there some surge of males in the near future? Seems way too specific.
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Jan 1, 2018 15:09
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Have't really used it yet either but looking at the nastier challenge quests like that Herc one comes to mind.
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Jan 1, 2018 15:20
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Germania finally gave me a talon and let me final ascend Martha. For the first time ever since playing this game both JP and NA, I have a fully ascended support roster.
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Jan 1, 2018 16:20
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Man it feels very good to load up a level 90 scathach with double quick buffs, code buff and her own divine killer to one hit Gil. He just walks in and gets one shotted to the dulcet tones of angry gil noises.
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Jan 1, 2018 16:22
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RanKizama posted:Germania finally gave me a talon and let me final ascend Martha. For the first time ever since playing this game both JP and NA, I have a fully ascended support roster. ...ladies 
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Jan 1, 2018 16:38
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Billzasilver posted:Which non-5* craft essences are worth keeping? I just got 4* necromancy for my tank I don't have an exact list of what good ones are out in NA as yet, but there are quite a lot of decent 4* CEs. It's 3* and below there's hardly any worth keeping. Tae posted:Why? Is there some surge of males in the near future? Seems way too specific. There's no real surge or anything, but there's plenty of male bosses out there (especially looking ahead to Camelot). Limit broken, it's 30% defense, which is pretty hefty. Especially if you use a tank like George or D'eon.
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Jan 1, 2018 16:52
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ahahhahahhahhahahahhahahhahah I rolled karna of my first ny ticket
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Jan 1, 2018 16:57
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Managed to get Tesla with 60 quartz (when I really wanted to aim for is LAlter) which certainly beats the dupe Orion I got with my summon ticket earlier. And definitely will blow my hundreds of quartz to roll for MHX even though she's garbage gameplay-wise.
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Jan 1, 2018 18:46
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halokiller posted:Managed to get Tesla with 60 quartz (when I really wanted to aim for is LAlter) which certainly beats the dupe Orion I got with my summon ticket earlier.  I already have Jack so there's no reason to roll for her in terms of gameplay, but I really like her design. Getting another Saber Alter would be a lot less exciting now that I have her at NP2, but finally getting Nero would be really nice if I manage to roll a 4* from that banner.
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Jan 1, 2018 19:06
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Bakanogami posted:There's no real surge or anything, but there's plenty of male bosses out there (especially looking ahead to Camelot). Limit broken, it's 30% defense, which is pretty hefty. Especially if you use a tank like George or D'eon.
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Jan 1, 2018 19:20
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So I just downloaded JP, what would be the ideal way to go about rerolling on here? I end up with 22 quartz from the gifts, should I just run through the story until I get enough for a 10 pull? I'm planning on stopping once I get a 5* with the gift quartz.
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Jan 1, 2018 19:25
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LightningSquid posted:So I just downloaded JP, what would be the ideal way to go about rerolling on here? I end up with 22 quartz from the gifts, should I just run through the story until I get enough for a 10 pull? I'm planning on stopping once I get a 5* with the gift quartz. More quartz should be coming your way in about 30mins, which I dunno how much we'll get but it might push you over 30 so you can just do a multi pull reroll with that.
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Jan 1, 2018 19:27
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Killed By Death posted:Is 30% defence just -30% damage taken, or does each servant have their own defence stat which scales with the boost? The former. Defense doesn't exist as a stat in this game, it's just a straight reduction to incoming damage. Defense down is, of course, the inverse.
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Jan 1, 2018 19:30
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Gologle posted:The former. Defense doesn't exist as a stat in this game, it's just a straight reduction to incoming damage. Defense down is, of course, the inverse. Yep, in fact, percentage defense modifiers are just added directly to attack modifiers, they're the same number for all intents and purposes. So a defense down debuff on an enemy is effectively the same as an attack up to anyone attacking them. Note that those are distinct from damage cut buffs, which are a flat reduction in damage instead of a percentage reduction. This is important because defense ignoring attacks ignore the former, but not the latter.
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Jan 1, 2018 20:37
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Sanguinia posted:I mean, you are talking to the guy that had a mini-meltdown like one page ago about a potentially irreconcilable rule break with no apparent way to cover it absent a complete retcon or a major addition to the existing cosmology, so either I'm 100% the wrong person to ask, or I definitively disprove it by not willfully blinding myself due to my investment when a really blatant one came along. Take that for whatever you think its worth. Nasu has never cared about consistency. One look at the way God Hand got circumvented should tell you this much. The rules in this setting don't matter and never have mattered since like, Tsukihime maybe. It's so blatant that your default assumption should be that if a rule exists it WILL get broken and there is no shock factor to it because it happens to every rule, instead of the opposite.
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Jan 1, 2018 21:39
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Ibram Gaunt posted:More quartz should be coming your way in about 30mins, which I dunno how much we'll get but it might push you over 30 so you can just do a multi pull reroll with that. Well, I ended up resetting and getting locked out of the 18 quartz, so maybe I'll hold off on doing this anymore today so I won't get any more peeved.
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Jan 1, 2018 21:42
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LightningSquid posted:Well, I ended up resetting and getting locked out of the 18 quartz, so maybe I'll hold off on doing this anymore today so I won't get any more peeved. Buy one of those accounts off eBay with 900 quartz for like 6 bucks. Seriously. vv or that yeah vv Ceramics fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Jan 1, 2018 |
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Jan 1, 2018 21:56
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Get a starter account with merlin or something. They're super cheap because JP is super undervalued for some reason.
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Jan 1, 2018 21:57
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Drew Salter with my last pull and got emiya too 
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Jan 1, 2018 21:59
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Tesla's the first time I've paid attention to a Reverse S servant's stats during leveling and drat, those gains do get dire as hell after the initial burst.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:09
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hey this game has good combat and a good story. alright I'm in. Do I have any keepers? I read Emiya is good but not until way later? 
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Jan 1, 2018 22:18
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Keep everyone. Emiya is good already, with good stats and skills, but becomes really good later on when we get his strengthening. Cu Chulainn is one of the best Servants in the game despite his 3-Stars, so he'S definitely a keeper. Cursed-Arm Hassan is also the second best Assassin in the game currently, with only Jack better at throwing around crit stars at the moment. Ceasar is also a pretty decent Saber.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:28
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Transient People posted:Nasu has never cared about consistency. One look at the way God Hand got circumvented should tell you this much. The rules in this setting don't matter and never have mattered since like, Tsukihime maybe. It's so blatant that your default assumption should be that if a rule exists it WILL get broken and there is no shock factor to it because it happens to every rule, instead of the opposite. You're equating breaking rules and inconsistency and that's just strait up wrong. God Hand is the perfect example of rules getting broken WITH CONSISTENCY. Every time God Hand gets beaten or a new example of how a Servant could possibly beat Hercules comes up, its entirely inside the rules system and the explanation we're given within the fiction makes perfect sense. God Hand doesn't suddenly become beatable where before it was unbeatable when Gil appears, or UBW gets used on it, or we get told that Cu has high-level rune magic that gives him a small chance, or if Medusa abuses Monsters Strength enough her full Gorgon form could get through it. It was always beatable and we just didn't see it because of savvy storytelling and careful management of expectations. Its the difference between a good and lovely mystery novel. When a good mystery novel tells you whodunnit, your response should always be "Ooooh, that makes sense!" because you see how the story puts together the pieces it had previously given you into a cohesive conclusion, often by showing you the way of looking at the facts that you missed before. This is how Nasu uses the rules in his setting. The one time Nasu strait up broke the rules on how Godhand worked was with Caliburn, and the comparison between that and all the other times later on makes that moment more special over time.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:32
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It's a solid start, I think. At the same time I'd probably save the account and do a few rerolls just because for the next few hours you'll be getting 18 quartz and can fish for better/servants you like more somewhat easily.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:32
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Lube banjo posted:hey this game has good combat and a good story. alright I'm in. Do I have any keepers? I read Emiya is good but not until way later? Keep that account code and, if you have the patience, keep rerolling until the reset time in about 2-and-a-half hours. The 18 SQ we've been gifted today should let you get a 10-roll relatively quickly, and if you're lucky it might hand you a 5-star Servant. Since there are three really good ones on the various Rate Up Banners right now (Mordred, Tesla and Karna) you would not regret it if your efforts got you one of them.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:38
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Sanguinia posted:You're equating breaking rules and inconsistency and that's just strait up wrong. God Hand is the perfect example of rules getting broken WITH CONSISTENCY. Every time God Hand gets beaten or a new example of how a Servant could possibly beat Hercules comes up, its entirely inside the rules system and the explanation we're given within the fiction makes perfect sense. God Hand doesn't suddenly become beatable where before it was unbeatable when Gil appears, or UBW gets used on it, or we get told that Cu has high-level rune magic that gives him a small chance, or if Medusa abuses Monsters Strength enough her full Gorgon form could get through it. It was always beatable and we just didn't see it because of savvy storytelling and careful management of expectations. We're told God Hand operates on a lives system. Name a single instance of lives overflowing in the history of anything besides God Hand. That is inconsistency and bad storytelling. If you say 'he has twelve lives and becomes immune to what killed him after losing each one', the expectation is that each life is separate (as in like, oh, all of fiction and also videogames and pretty much anything else?) so you need to find twelve different ways to kill him. To say "ACKSHUALLY, I didn't mean lives that way! Haha look how dumb you are for not realizing my twist was to invent a new meaning to this and never so much as hint at it!" is very very bad writing. It's precisely because of the Caliburn moment that I don't think Nasu actually cares about consistency, because that's the one that we actually see onscreen for a demonstration of how Herc is beaten the first time, and the one that actually matters because it's the protagonists trying to do it...and the answer is 'lol who cares about rules, the one who's going to win is the one the writer wants to win, rules be damned'. EDIT: Hell, you know what makes this even more inane? You fight Herc in FGO in an exhibition match with God Hand active and he has 'lives' in the form of a ton of Guts. Even in a Fate videogame where Herc gets to show off, lives don't overflow. It's so dumb that not even the spinoff material sticks with it for its mechanics!
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Jan 1, 2018 22:56
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oh my god who cares
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Jan 1, 2018 23:10
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Endorph posted:oh my god who cares Anybody who cares about the story of this game? :V Seriously, we're discussing one of the main writers' writing style and what kind of expectations you should have of it. It's pretty relevant. If you come in expecting the rules to hold when the stakes get dramatic the nasuverse is always going to disappoint you. It's much more enjoyable if you assume the default is that the rules don't matter and the writer will contrive a way for the guy he wants to win to achieve just that. EDIT: Plus this bleeds over into the other writers too. See Higashide's bullshit about beam diffusion in Fate/Apocrypha, and the final battle of that work as well. It's practically a trademark of the verse at this point. Transient People fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Jan 1, 2018 |
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Jan 1, 2018 23:14
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I care about the story of the game, but I don't care about innane poo poo like that, Herc goes down, boom, my Servants kick demon pillars in the eyes
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Jan 1, 2018 23:20
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as someone who cares about the story of this internet mobile game Grand Order i would like to reject the allegation that anyone who cares about the story of this game goes through every stated rule anywhere in any related property to see if anything might have been possibly broken based on wild conjecture so that angry internet posting can happen i am too busy with my new octopus friend thank you BlondRobin fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Jan 1, 2018 |
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Jan 1, 2018 23:26
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Compendium posted:I care about the story of the game, but I don't care about innane poo poo like that, Herc goes down, boom, my Servants kick demon pillars in the eyes Herc kicks demon pillars in the eyes. My Kintoki actually took down Solomon's pillar turn one with a single brave buster NP chain because GOLDEN is best
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Jan 1, 2018 23:27
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BlondRobin posted:spoilers tag your stuff please tyvm
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Jan 1, 2018 23:28
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