TheBigBudgetSequel posted:The film literally says it's the Hosnian system. Meaningless. The system Coruscant resides in is never specified.
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Jan 3, 2018 02:22
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Captain von Trapp posted:I understand what you're saying, and I agree with a fair chunk of it, and I don't mean to dismiss it, but: For sure. It's totally not the movie I was asking for. But I can see what RJ was trying to do. I feel like if you're wanting to bring the whole saga to a conclusion (yeah right, not as long as these are good for a guarantee billion+), you have to go into the complicated matter of what "restoring freedom to the galaxy" truly entails when millions of ships, Jedi, superweapons, and right hands have been destroyed and it's still not there. Maybe it's something a bit more pacifistic and altruistic. Essentially, Jedi should be more Carradine (solving a town's problems and making poo poo better) in 'Kung-Fu' and less laser sword-branding swat team and the Rebellion less a military force, and more of a humanitarian operation helping little broom holding enslaved boys and girls just like young Anakin would have wanted. That's what might end these Star Wars (literally, figuratively, and perhaps permanently based on the feedback from fans on 8's direction). But yeah, as interesting as the current direction is it isn't nearly as interesting, in 'my' opinion, as something that'd be a bit more.....conventional? Maybe I'm just boring? Dishwasher fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Jan 3, 2018 |
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Jan 3, 2018 02:25
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Let's try this: if there's anyone in the thread who thinks TLJ is worse than TFA, let them step forward TFA is a figure skater doing a pretty but easy spin. TLJ is a faceplanted quadruple lutz. Depends on which you like watching, I guess.
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Jan 3, 2018 02:31
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Blue Star posted:We learn that the Resistance and First Order get their equipment from the same people and that the galactic one-percenters are getting rich off of it. Thats an interesting spin on Star Wars. But its just sorta mentioned and then forgotten about when Finn and Rose get back into the main plot. It may come up again in Episode 9, but for the rest of Episode 8 it doesn't seem to play a big part in anything. Kylo says "gently caress the resistance, gently caress the first order, gently caress the past" which I guess could be a part of that, but I think the topic is interesting enough to play an even bigger role, and it should have. Not just some background material. The rest of the movie is still pretty much Good Rebels versus Bad Imperials. Its like the movie wants to score some points for mentioning war profiteering but doesnt want to really delve deep into it, and its a shame because, like i said, that'd be interesting to do for Star Wars. The war profiteering is everyday evil. It has no tragic backstory. it's not some big cosmic force. It's not interesting. It's just base greed. It's institutional, and even if you throw the big bad guy into a pit, it doesn't go away. I think for me the war profiteering reveal and the casino scene in general cast a shadow over the film. It introduces a conception of evil that the film series just hasn't explored before. I think for me, when they face off against Snoke, I sort of implicitly understood that there wasn't much to him besides wanting to sit in a chair in his gold robe. It's not about some long revenge scheme against the Jedi or bringing balance or whatever. He does what he does because he's an rear end in a top hat. And I think the casino stuff and the war profiteering reveal are important to that because that's just not how Star Wars works. The facelessness of the war profiteer is in sharp contrast to someone like Jabba or Watto who are also clearly base and greedy assholes that we can see the good guys overcome. That war profiteer isn't going to be choked by his sex slave or thrown into a pit, and even if is that doesn't hurt the bigger problem. And yeah, it does make Kylo's stance understandable even if he's still ultimately an immature baby.
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Jan 3, 2018 02:36
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Dishwasher posted:Essentially, Jedi should be more Carradine (solving a town's problems and making poo poo better) in 'Kung-Fu' and less laser sword-branding swat team and the Rebellion less a military force, and more of a humanitarian operation helping little broom holding enslaved boys and girls just like young Anakin would have wanted. Really that would have been my ideal Episode 1, with it all subsequently falling apart as Anakin gets corrupted. But there's not much to be done about the prequels at this point.
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Jan 3, 2018 02:42
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Captain von Trapp posted:Really that would have been my ideal Episode 1, with it all subsequently falling apart as Anakin gets corrupted. But there's not much to be done about the prequels at this point. That would have meant the Jedi were fine and pure and good until Anakin came along, which kinda undermines the point of corrupted institutions being the problem.
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Jan 3, 2018 02:44
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quote:Let's try this: if there's anyone in the thread who thinks TLJ is worse than TFA, let them step forward I dunno. TFA posed many questions, which added to the wonder of "What's gonna happen next!?" I was even able to write off the story beats from IV as simply the Force testing the new batch of puppets with a similar scenario to see if they cut the mustard, kinda like Raiden in Metal Gear Solid 2 TLJ implies that the series is probably about to become something entirely different going forward and I'm still unsure of whether I like where it's going or the decisions the movie made. With the manner that everything is drat near wiped clean for both sides, it almost feels like the setup to an MMO or another trilogy. Certainly not something that's ending entirely with the next movie. I'm definitely less hopeful and hyped for this trilogy now. Rogue One digested a lot better for me a month-in compared to TLJ. On the One True Metric we should all follow, it's unquestionably the one movie I would have loving adored if I got it when I was 12 or 13 and precisely what I expected from a Star Wars sequel/prequel straight from my pre-TPM daydreams. Politics, Tarkin being a dick, cool but expendable soldiers, So Many Goddamn X-Wings, and the ratchetness of galactic war. Dishwasher fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Jan 3, 2018 |
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Jan 3, 2018 02:48
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My only real problem with the movie was the Leia scene. You know the one. And the whole Poe subplot but I guess they couldn't come up with anything else, so eh.
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Jan 3, 2018 02:58
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Maxwell Lord posted:That would have meant the Jedi were fine and pure and good until Anakin came along, which kinda undermines the point of corrupted institutions being the problem. But corrupt institutions aren't the problem. They're a secondary theme. Star Wars is a fine vehicle for exploring deep ideas like corrupt institutions to an extent, but given the genre you do eventually need a bad guy the good guys can shoot before they live happily ever after.
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Jan 3, 2018 03:04
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Captain von Trapp posted:But corrupt institutions aren't the problem. They're a secondary theme. Star Wars is a fine vehicle for exploring deep ideas like corrupt institutions to an extent, but given the genre you do eventually need a bad guy the good guys can shoot before they live happily ever after.
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Jan 3, 2018 03:07
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Timeless Appeal posted:The entire point of The Last Jedi is that's not true and you can't defeat true evil with one big hero but by inspiring many. I'm glad that the slave kids are inspired by Luke and none of the new characters. "The past must die!" lol
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Jan 3, 2018 03:11
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Timeless Appeal posted:That war profiteer isn't going to be choked by his sex slave or thrown into a pit, and even if is that doesn't hurt the bigger problem. Precisely what I'm saying. The rot in the galaxy is tied to the heart and its destructive wants, lusts, and greed. It's shown to be so endemic to everything in the SW galaxy that the Jedi are terrified of it and bunker down in their posh temples and declare everything off-limits and corrupting. For all their super powers, those issues can't be fought with lightsabers and force pushes. If OT was about best buds and the PT (and Clone Wars series especially) was about coldness and alienation, the ST is all about people Just Not loving Getting Along from the Solo family busting up, to Kylo and Luke in the hut, to FO and Rebels reigniting some good ol' war, to the military leaders of both groups undercutting each other, to the apprentices and their masters in TLJ butting heads. lovely people being lovely with shittier people waiting in the wings to take advantage either with ships and arms, some darkside training, or sketchy frontier bounty hunting because everything is poo poo anyways. The revelation in these two movies is that everyone is actually pretty loving miserable in the Star Wars universe. That's what might be putting people off, I think, even though the movie was "fiiine?". It breaks the immersion and desire to put yourself in that universe when you strip away the optimism. So yeah, people wanted Clone Wars TV references in these new films and they definitely got it, it just may not have been the one they were looking for. It's an interesting place to go in the series, even if it all feels a bit mean-spirited and dour. FuturePastNow posted:Rose is a bad character played by a bad actress. Universal Truths. Dishwasher fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Jan 3, 2018 |
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Jan 3, 2018 03:11
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Rose is a bad character played by a bad actress.
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Jan 3, 2018 03:17
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Timeless Appeal posted:The entire point of The Last Jedi is that's not true and you can't defeat true evil with one big hero but by inspiring many. That might be what it was trying for, but in the movie that actually appeared on screen, inspiration didn't defeat squat. Even in Empire, at the end they win a skirmish and regroup to win the war. Here, with the exception of Rey, pretty much everyone is dead or hopelessly compromised.
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Jan 3, 2018 03:25
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Captain von Trapp posted:That might be what it was trying for, but in the movie that actually appeared on screen, inspiration didn't defeat squat. Even in Empire, at the end they win a skirmish and regroup to win the war. Here, with the exception of Rey, pretty much everyone is dead or hopelessly compromised.
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Jan 3, 2018 03:46
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Yes - because the Resistance as it existed failed to inspire anyone and no-one came to help them when they needed it. The ray of hope is that they are now starting to inspire people, and need to do more of what Finn and Rose did on Canto Bight.
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Jan 3, 2018 03:47
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Spacebump posted:Do we know if Snoke is actually Sith or just an evil force user? Although I don't know the answer, pretty sure part of what the movie was telling the audience was "this is irrelevant, you should pay attention somewhere else"
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Jan 3, 2018 03:54
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I liked Rose's theme.
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Jan 3, 2018 03:57
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For all the heat grimdarkifying gets especially with respect to DC superhero movies, halfhearted subversion for the sake of "maturity" is pretty much its slightly less lazy cousin
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Jan 3, 2018 03:59
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Dishwasher posted:I dunno. TFA posed many questions, which added to the wonder of "What's gonna happen next!?" I was even able to write off the story beats from IV as simply the Force testing the new batch of puppets with a similar scenario to see if they cut the mustard, kinda like Raiden in Metal Gear Solid 2 This is a way of looking at this or any movie I'm not comfortable with, reducing it to its function as an advertisement for subsequent movies. TLJ was a satisfying spectacle in its own right, and whether the subsequent movie is any good or not doesn't matter.
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Jan 3, 2018 04:08
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Timeless Appeal posted:The Last Jedi doesn't have a high opinion of evil. I know that seems like an obvious thing, but on some level Star Wars has cast evil as a sort of cosmic force. It's the darkside. It's strong and powerful. A good percentage of the saga is about exploring why a stock Saturday serial bad guy is the way he is and making him relatable. While evil is not treated with reverence in Star Wars, it is in an odd way treated with a strange respect. Yeah I'm fine with this new trilogy doing new stuff and exploring new territory. I just think it should go whole hog. Like, Episode 7 should have been about war profiteers deliberately manipulating conflicts to make more money, and the subsequent sequels exploring that. Instead, Episode 7 was a cowardly reboot of New Hope with the same story beats, and while Episode 8 tried to take things in a new direction it was still saddled with what Ep7 had established. So it wants to introduce the idea of war profiteers but can only find space to do it in a clumsy detour. I think the entire sequel trilogy should have been about this, starting in Ep 7. I dont think the movie deserves points just for bringing the topic up. As it is, it really does come across as Johnson just giving lip service to the idea and then dropping it. Like i said, maybe it has something to do with Kylo's opinion of letting everything die and starting over, but he shouldn't be the only character affected by this. Why didn't Finn and Rose bring the topic up to Leia or Poe when they returned to them? I get that the Resistance was trying to figure out how to get out of the bind they were in, but still, they couldn't step aside for a moment and ask Leia about it? And thats the problem i have with the way this movie was written: i think the finale should have had more to do with this concept of war profiteers and the entire First Order/Resistance war being bullshit. Thats why I think Rey should have joined Kylo. Maybe Kylo could have said "Hey, you wanna know something: your buddies get their stuff from the same suppliers that we do. Still think this war is worth fighting?"
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Jan 3, 2018 04:48
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s.i.r.e. posted:I'm glad that the slave kids are inspired by Luke and none of the new characters. "The past must die!" lol the point is everyone interprets "the past must die" theme differently. for kylo that means literally seeking out institutions/people and destroying them. for yoda it means letting go of physical habits or materials that prevent you from recognizing the potential in the present.
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Jan 3, 2018 05:07
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Blue Star posted:Maybe Kylo could have said "Hey, you wanna know something: your buddies get their stuff from the same suppliers that we do. Still think this war is worth fighting?" Maybe he could have said this, and maybe Rey could have responded with "Hey, you wanna know something: your buddies murdered five planets worth of people and you're their leader. The only good space fascist is a dead space fascist, get clubbed in the streets of Space Charleston you loving fascist." What this is saying is that the First Order's actions can be justified by declaring "Well, there are assholes in charge, and there is NO amount of innocent people anywhere that can stand in our way in enacting justice!" It's a remarkably grim message, which might actually appeal to my fellow Americans given that we've elected Donald loving Trump. But it is grim, and stupid. Star Wars already casually throws away so many lives on 'themes' and 'messages', to now say that one side is 'justified' with a mewling "both sides are bad, actually" is terrible no-good very bad and neither the Star Wars people should want, or the story anyone should strive to produce or accept in the mainstream. It's a message that means nothing of substance given that ONE side just murdered billions of people without a single question being raised in challenge to the action from within. If such a thing could be justified, NOTHING in this galaxy far, far away is worth saving. Not the resistance, not the First Order, nothing. It's all inherently hosed and nobody has any real answers, as evidenced by the Empire But More Badder surfacing within three decades of the previous Empire, with an even bigger death star and even more evil sith than ever before. Fuckin' Palpatine did more to keep the space trains running on time than any of these shits. Fixing the problems with TLJ essentially means writing two movies that ultimately bear no resemblance either to TLJ or TFA. TLJ is stupid in no small part due to the fact that it is supposed to be a follow-up to TFA, but the writer had no interests in that whatsoever. Irony Be My Shield posted:Yes - because the Resistance as it existed failed to inspire anyone and no-one came to help them when they needed it. The ray of hope is that they are now starting to inspire people, and need to do more of what Finn and Rose did on Canto Bight. Five dead planets, the weapon that caused it being destroyed like a day later by the only people willing to fight back can't inspire a galaxy to fight back against open aggression. But two bumblers can leave a star wars decoder ring behind with slaves they don't rescue at all, a space wizard can die on a planet in the middle of nowhere, and that's the real spark for a rebellion. And a new merchandising line-up, new Lego sets, new model kits, new books, new videogames! New new new, be a part of the galactic movement that rocked the first order to its core and buy the new Starkiller Base Memorial Diorama!
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Jan 3, 2018 05:23
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I'm not convinced the whole war profiteer thing even makes sense in-universe. Does neither the Republic nor the First Order enforce some kind of Space ITAR? Sure, maybe the unlicensed third-world Space Kalashnikov manufacturers can get away with it, but fighters and capital ships require nation-state resources and corresponding levels of regulations and red tape. Hey don't look at me, I'm not the one who put Lord of War in a space opera.
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Jan 3, 2018 05:26
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Captain von Trapp posted:I'm not convinced the whole war profiteer thing even makes sense in-universe. As usual, people ignore that this ‘subversive’ idea was already done better in the prequels. The Grand Army Of The Republic uses both Tie Fighters and X-Wings in Episode 3. So we are shown - not told - that pretty much all the vehicles in Star Wars 4-6 (and Rogue One) are being built and sold by a handful of Republic corporations. We can even infer that the clone wars were partly about eliminating competition from foreign markets. The cloning facility on Kamino is openly competing against the Geonosis droid foundries, for example. They have a whole sales pitch.
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Jan 3, 2018 06:05
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The Jedi fighter spaceships have elements of TIEs and x wings https://imgur.com/a/BtyEj
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Jan 3, 2018 06:14
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fivegears4reverse posted:Maybe he could have said this, and maybe Rey could have responded with "Hey, you wanna know something: your buddies murdered five planets worth of people and you're their leader. The only good space fascist is a dead space fascist, get clubbed in the streets of Space Charleston you loving fascist." You're right, and thats pretty much my problem with the whole "both sides are a machine" message that TLJ shoehorns in. You cant just have a character mention it in passing; if you want to explore that idea, then you should start from scratch. But like you said, in THESE movies, we already see the First Order genociding planets and killing people, while we see nothing to indicate the Resistance is equivalently bad. So to suddenly have characters in Episode 8 say "Both sides are a machine, its all crap" rings hollow. Even within Episode 8, without referring to Episode 7, we see the First Order killing enemy combatants without mercy, without accepting surrender. I mean, they're pretty clearly the douche bags of the situation, aren't they? And suddenly the movie is trying to be all nuanced n' poo poo. Like i said, the movie doesn't get points for that. If you want to explore the military industrial complex in Star Wars, actually do that poo poo from the get-go. Get all up in there with your themes and poo poo. But dont make bog-standard Star Wars movies and then suddenly cram this sort of thing in there by having characters talk about it in one or two scenes, and then forget about it for the rest of the movie.
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Jan 3, 2018 06:20
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Maarak posted:The Jedi fighter spaceships have elements of TIEs and x wings True, but the point is more specifically that the Jedi fighter literally transforms into Darth Vader’s fighter when it goes into attack mode. There was always an implicit point that these weapons and things must come from somewhere. Outright explaining that people make money by selling things is like a ‘for dummies’ version of previous films. I’m also suspicious of how these scummy rich are also some of the only real aliens we’ve gotten in the ST so far. The Lucas films have a very overt point about human supremacism as analogous to white supremacism. Like, even a black human like Lando has a leg up on the Chewbaccas and Jar Jars of the universe. That’s part of what led to the clone war. But now we have this war between two competing groups of white people, in Star Wars terms, secretly engineered by a bunch of scummy nonwhites?
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Jan 3, 2018 07:28
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I hate the idea that Force sensitivity and ability to use the Force is actually genetic, it only runs in certain families and you have to have the right genes. Yeah maybe there's a thematic point to it but i just don't like it. And I know Lucas was the one to introduce that idea in the prequels. But in the very first movie (Episode 4), it really did seem like a mystical spiritual thing that anyone can do if they believed (and trained). I like that much better. It makes it seem like being a Jedi or a Sith was an actual choice. Its something you have to actually pursue. You're not just born a psychic mutant freak.
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Jan 3, 2018 07:33
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Film was absolutely dreadful. The committee thought the best thing to do with three good actors who had good chemistry was to split them up and have them essentially never interact with each other. Carrie Fisher sounded like her lines were dubbed by Paula Poundstone. Luke sat around getting owned by a ghost, his own pupil, and a giant tit-monster, only to die from forcing too hard. Rian realized Snoke was going nowhere and axed him before things could get worse. We were supposed to be really moved or inspired by Holdo's choice to self-vaporize but I might have actually cheered. I wish Phasma showed up in this film still covered in garbage with dinged-up armor so she could hobble into episode 9 covered in burnt trash and get, like, impaled on a proton torpedo and fired into the sun. Rey proved the ultimate justice of the force by moving a large number of rocks, making TLJ the first Star Wars film to rip off Bob the Builder
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Jan 3, 2018 08:19
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Blue Star posted:You're right, and thats pretty much my problem with the whole "both sides are a machine" message that TLJ shoehorns in. You cant just have a character mention it in passing; if you want to explore that idea, then you should start from scratch. But like you said, in THESE movies, we already see the First Order genociding planets and killing people, while we see nothing to indicate the Resistance is equivalently bad. So to suddenly have characters in Episode 8 say "Both sides are a machine, its all crap" rings hollow. Even within Episode 8, without referring to Episode 7, we see the First Order killing enemy combatants without mercy, without accepting surrender. I mean, they're pretty clearly the douche bags of the situation, aren't they? And suddenly the movie is trying to be all nuanced n' poo poo. Like i said, the movie doesn't get points for that. If you want to explore the military industrial complex in Star Wars, actually do that poo poo from the get-go. Get all up in there with your themes and poo poo. But dont make bog-standard Star Wars movies and then suddenly cram this sort of thing in there by having characters talk about it in one or two scenes, and then forget about it for the rest of the movie. I truly hate that the new Star Wars movies are weakly trying to play this "well maybe the truth is in the middle" thing on any level. Star Wars, as a universe, is a place of stark, black and white morality. We are introduced to a cosmic force that permeates every living thing where there is literally a "dark side" of it that turns you into a mummy monster man if you tap into it too much. The Empire is never presented with any redeeming or justifying factors at all beyond a vague "bring peace and order" credo, which they enact by committing genocide on anyone who disagrees with them and cackling about how they plan to rule the galaxy with naked terrorism. The Rebels are basically fully justified in everything they do in the movies because they are fighting against a fascist nightmare regime built on the bones of billions of dead people. Doing a 180 and going "well you see the rebels had to buy the weapons they use to resist the nightmare regime from the same guys who sold stuff to the empire" is a brain blastingly stupid false equivalency that drives me nuts. I don't think it's possible to do that kind of double-sided nuanced story that doesn't feel unsatisfying as long as your two main factions are the Empire and the Rebels. There's almost nothing you can do to present any sort of equivalency between the Empire's crimes and anyone else that would make any sense short of having the Rebels decide to blow up a bunch of Imperial civilian planets.
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Jan 3, 2018 08:19
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Blue Star posted:It makes it seem like being a Jedi or a Sith was an actual choice. Its something you have to actually pursue. You're not just born a psychic mutant freak. The Jedi and Sith only allow mutants, but those are only two religions. Dozens of characters like Han, Chirrut, Baze, Jar Jar, and R2D2 all ‘use the force’ without being psychic. What you‘re talking about is gaining objective and measurable telekinesis, without any causal mechanism, just by wishing hard enough. But that’s silly. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Jan 3, 2018 |
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Jan 3, 2018 08:29
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:But now we have this war between two competing groups of white people, in Star Wars terms, secretly engineered by a bunch of scummy nonwhites? And that's something the prequels really handle much better - the Jedi see scary alien Darth Maul and immediately realize "That's a Sith, we'd better keep an eye out for more", but never figure out what's really going on because the real threat never was the external aliens but the nice smiling white guy who speaks their language and lives in the city like them.
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Jan 3, 2018 08:45
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Blue Star posted:I hate the idea that Force sensitivity and ability to use the Force is actually genetic, it only runs in certain families and you have to have the right genes. Yeah maybe there's a thematic point to it but i just don't like it. And I know Lucas was the one to introduce that idea in the prequels. But in the very first movie (Episode 4), it really did seem like a mystical spiritual thing that anyone can do if they believed (and trained). I like that much better. It makes it seem like being a Jedi or a Sith was an actual choice. Its something you have to actually pursue. You're not just born a psychic mutant freak. Uh, even A New Hope is 'your dad was a great Jedi so you can be too'.
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Jan 3, 2018 09:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The Jedi and Sith only allow mutants, but those are only two religions. Dozens of characters like Han, Chirrut, Baze, Jar Jar, and R2D2 all ‘use the force’ without being psychic. Well its a space-fantasy movie, so there's no reason why people can't gain these telekinetic powers by training themselves, and that hypothetially anyone can train themselves but it takes dedication, practice, cultivating oneself, whatever it takes. It doesnt need to follow real-world rules. Nobody can wish themselves or train themselves into having psychic powers in real life but this is a fantasy science-fiction world with faster-than-light travel, laser swords, and so on. I mean, by your own admission, certain characters already have psychic powers to begin with. What is the causal mechanism of having psychic powers? There isn't any: psychic powers are magic. The term "psychic mutant who was born with their powers" makes no more causal sense than "psychic monk who was born normal but developed their powers through practice and dedication". In the original movies, it seemed to me that using the Force was like cultivating one's chi: hypothetically anyone can do it but only certain individuals have the inclination and dedication. Maybe it required a certain ritual to awaken the third eye chakra or whatever (at least for high-level stuff like telekinesis), but it doesn't need certain genes. In the very first film, it seemed like a metaphor for believing in God: Luke has faith and trusts in God, so he hits the target. Later on, it became more qi-like, something that you need to actually practice at. For what its worth, i also dont like how the Force has become so powerful. I'm fine with a certain degree of clairvoyance, telepathy, and so on, but having enough telekinesis to where you lift spaceships. But this was introduced in Empire Strikes Back. In Last Jedi, Luke is able to project himself across the galaxy as a sort of solid ghost, like a persistent sensory illusion in dozens of people's minds all at once. That was too much for me. If the Force is supposed to be a metaphor for faith, spiritual awakening, enlightenment, whatever, I prefer it if its more subtle. Its like seeing the Matrix of reality: people who have learned to use the Force can look beyond the normal surface of reality into the deeper level, to see the connections between all things and to have a broader, deeper, wider perspective that normal people cant perceive. And becoming aware of this, they can manipulate it, giving the appearance of having telekinetic powers (to some degree) and clairvoyance and so on. And having developed these powers, they can use them for their own purposes or use them to help others, hence the "dark side" and "light side". This was my perception of the Force for a long time, but i concede that this may not be what Lucas intended in the sequels, which seem more materialistic with all the talk of midichlorians and how only certain people can become Jedi and you need to start young. SuperMechagodzilla: what do you mean by the other characters "using the Force" without being psychic? Do you think the Force is a real thing within the STar Wars universe, or is it bullshit? From your posts, it sounds like you're saying that there is no Force, only psychic mutants who have created a religion to trick people into thinking there is a Force.
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Jan 3, 2018 09:14
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Milky Moor posted:Uh, even A New Hope is 'your dad was a great Jedi so you can be too'. Not really. Luke learns his father was a Jedi and wants to become one too. Obi-Wan says that he must learn the ways of the Force. But its not stated that Luke's genetics is what makes it possible for him to learn the Force. Rather, Luke just wants to become a Jedi because his dad was one, and to do that he needs to get in touch with the Force. Maybe you can say that its between the lines, but i dont think it is. Given what is shown and stated in the movie, there's no reason to think Han Solo couldn't learn it, but he lacks faith so he doesn't. Keep in mind that in ANH, using the Force doesn't seem to be all that magical except in a couple instances: Vader chokes that dude, and Obi-Wan manipulates the stormtrooper with the power of suggesstion. But those are still a far cry from lifting spaceships with your mind and all that. It still seems like something that anyone could learn if they dedicated themselves to it. But it would be very difficult to do so, so there were never very many people who actually did it, so the Jedi were very few in number and a long time ago they got wiped out so now there aren't even any teachers left, so the galaxy just sort of forgot about it. Thats the info i got out of the first film. Subsequent films paint a different picture. The Force becomes more overt, granting even greater and more obvious powers. It becomes more dependent on who your daddy was, and what bloodline you come from. And in the prequels, we find out that the Jedi were once really numerous not too long ago, and had a big temple right on the capital planet and everybody knew about them and their powers. So everything i said in the above paragraph doesnt make sense now. The Force is super-obvious, the Jedi were everywhere just a few years ago, and so on. But in ANH, at the very beginning, it was more low-key and ambiguous and spiritual.
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Jan 3, 2018 09:22
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Blue Star posted:SuperMechagodzilla: what do you mean by the other characters "using the Force" without being psychic? Do you think the Force is a real thing within the STar Wars universe, or is it bullshit? From your posts, it sounds like you're saying that there is no Force, only psychic mutants who have created a religion to trick people into thinking there is a Force. Star Wars is not a universe; it is a narrative. In the first couple films, there was always ambiguity as to whether Luke was deluded, or tripping balls. Hence the Han character: you either believe Luke’s claims or you don’t. Once Luke’s psychic powers become objective fact, however, Star Wars instantly ceases to be ‘science fantasy.’ Star Wars becomes science fiction at the point where you stop believing and instead merely know. The Force is literally just God. It is literally the same God worshipped in reality as Jehovah, Allah, Christ, Baha, or whatever. The Jedi are a supremacist group who believe their genetic superiority makes them more godly. They literally refer to their mutant powers as God - like, they are “using God” whenever they make a rock float. In truth, God is for everyone. Vader is the incarnation of God, and he dies for their sins. The Force is now dead - and in this sense, never actually existed at all. The true light side is the Holy Spirit, which is the community of believers in Vader/Christ. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Jan 3, 2018 |
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Jan 3, 2018 09:59
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god i love your posts so much that being said, I'd love to hear thoughts on when exactly han / jar jar / etc. used the force
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Jan 3, 2018 11:43
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Blue Star posted:SuperMechagodzilla: what do you mean by the other characters "using the Force" without being psychic? Do you think the Force is a real thing within the STar Wars universe, or is it bullshit? From your posts, it sounds like you're saying that there is no Force, only psychic mutants who have created a religion to trick people into thinking there is a Force. Could we not let SMG drown this thread in stupid word garbage posts like every other he's in? He's only here because this is the current "big topic" SMG is a gimmick, he makes ridiculous comments that people bizarrely believe are real, he never has a regular opinion or one that even agrees with what the majority of people think, he keeps saying stupid poo poo until the thread collapses or someone points out the obvious trolling when he makes one comment to much, then he vanishes (to keep his gimmick intact) For fucks sake, he tried claiming Alien resurrection was actually meant to be a silent movie and that he only watched in in languages he doesn't speak and dumbasses still didn't get it.
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Jan 3, 2018 11:57
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504 posted:SMG is a gimmick, he makes ridiculous comments that people bizarrely believe are real, he never has a regular opinion or one that even agrees with what the majority of people think, he keeps saying stupid poo poo until the thread collapses or someone points out the obvious trolling when he makes one comment to much, then he vanishes (to keep his gimmick intact) How the hell do you determine what the majority of people think? Is Gallup doing polls about Star Wars now? E: Also, I decided to look through his posts in this thread to see if your claim held up, and here's an opinion I hope counts as "regular": SuperMechagodzilla posted:Darth Maul owns. I Before E fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Jan 3, 2018 |
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Jan 3, 2018 12:04
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