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Have we mentioned Oklahoma? State Question 788 is Oklahoma's medical marijuana initiative and was supposed to be on the 2016 ballot, but was delayed because Scott Pruitt the former state attorney general (and Trump's new Captain Planet villain in charge of destroying the EPA and the Earth), tried to change the wording at the last minute to something misleading to make the initiative sound more radical than it really is and by the time the state supreme court ruled against him it was too late to get it on the November ballot. Right now the governor hasn't announced whether it will be on the primary ballot in June or the November ballot. She will obviously do the most evil thing, but will that be putting it in the low-turnout primary hoping older conservative primary voters will kill it (but, like all turnout elections, risking an energized Yes campaign flipping the result unexpectedly?) Or is she confident enough that Oklahomans oppose it to put it on the November ballot, but risk boosting turnout for Democratic and Libertarian candidates during a time when state Republicans are losing special elections to Democratic challengers already?
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Jan 2, 2018 09:38
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Oklahoma and Michigan are both cases where folks got screwed over in 2016 so are getting a shot in 2018, though my impression is that OK's delay was more malicious and MI's was more accidental. It could be as early as June in OK? They need to get going and pick a month, or is that the entire point to delay choosing so the Yes side doesn't know when to focus their campaigning?
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Jan 2, 2018 19:48
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While several initiatives in 2018 look pretty likely, here's one loooong shot: North Dakota is trying to get full-legal on the 2018 ballot: https://www.leafly.com/news/politics/north-dakota-cannabis-legalization-petition-okd-for-circulation On the face of it, it seems pretty impractical since it was only two years ago they legalized MMJ, and that hasn't even begun to fire up yet. That said, Massachusetts only legalized MMJ in 2013 and went full Recreational in 2016, so it's not unprecedented. And I grant that doing it so close to the prior initiative has a few advantages, including a lot of institutional memory, maybe a lot of the same people re-volunteering, able to use the same locations/methods to get signatures, etc. And theoretically you might get some advantage from the outraged anti-weed people being burned out from losing in 2016, and indifferent to further increases. Taking all that into account though, just over three years ago a poll in ND showed 47-41 in favor of Medical, but only 24-68 in favor of recreational. Though I'm sure those numbers have improved given the national trend, that's still a significant gap to have to make up.
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Jan 3, 2018 12:38
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:While several initiatives in 2018 look pretty likely, here's one loooong shot: North Dakota is trying to get full-legal on the 2018 ballot: https://www.leafly.com/news/politics/north-dakota-cannabis-legalization-petition-okd-for-circulation With numbers like those three years ago, the anti-legalization crew probably can just sit back and let it happen, then when the ballot gets voted down something like 35-65, they can be able to say "the people of ND have spoken and recreational cannabis has no place here" and can cruise on that for 10 years or however long it takes for more tide to turn.
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Jan 3, 2018 15:09
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SgtScruffy posted:With numbers like those three years ago, the anti-legalization crew probably can just sit back and let it happen, then when the ballot gets voted down something like 35-65, they can be able to say "the people of ND have spoken and recreational cannabis has no place here" and can cruise on that for 10 years or however long it takes for more tide to turn. You'd think that recent loss would be off-putting, but both Arizona (lost 2016) and Ohio (lost 2015) are gearing up again, whether for 2018 or 2020. Ohio got curb-stomped 36-65, but that's because people disliked the bill for creating a 10-producer crony monopoly. The actual polling was 53-44 for legalizing in 2015, so if they just put out a non-lovely initiative they'd likely have it in the bag. Arizona lost by a scant few points, so I would think that just the major wins of 2016 might push them over the edge. But then it's off-year and turnout, but will 2018 have a lot of anti-GOP millennials at the polls? So at the end of the day we're just squinting at tea-leaves and gutting chickens. Speaking of prognosticating, I don't see this so much in mainstream sources, but some of the fringier weedblogs are hyperventilating over New Hampshire possibly legalizing this year. Apparently they had a bill last year that made it partway through, they could conceivably revive it, fix whatever's objectionable and press on. What at least some blogs predict though is that NH will do "non-commercial legalization", which seems really ridiculous since the only way that's an improvement over regular legal is if you have a moral objection to the state condoning weed use. And meanwhile all the tax revenue will go to the adjoining states. https://www.marijuanamoment.net/new-hampshire-lawmakers-could-ok-legal-marijuana-this-week/ Just a quick review of what got done in 2017; not a ton but it's an off-off-year, and there were various partial steps and scene-setters (TX getting closer to proper medical every year) that just don't register as major milestones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_cannabis_laws_in_the_United_States posted:2017: New Hampshire decriminalized cannabis.[48] If that's missing any, let me know and I'll get it fixed.
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Jan 4, 2018 00:08
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I saw that on Reddit, and apparently it's because VT might pass it legislatively in short order, leaving them an island come July, surrounded by Quebec, VT, ME, MA on all sides. Who knows, though. NH probably isn't getting much done.
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Jan 4, 2018 00:16
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https://twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/948912302023114752
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Jan 4, 2018 15:06
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Apparently the new policy would leave it to each US Attorney to figure out what to do. Anyone have any idea how that would shake out?
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Jan 4, 2018 16:17
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MooselanderII posted:Apparently the new policy would leave it to each US Attorney to figure out what to do. Anyone have any idea how that would shake out? Everywhere outside of the south, exactly as it has been now. Anywhere in the south is going to see a major rampup of arrests/convictions for black people that would otherwise be legally possessing under state law.
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Jan 4, 2018 16:20
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Ohhhhhhhh snap! I'm pretty confident this will end in our favor, but in the short term it could get really messy. And it's likely to add to the potential 2018 and 2020 curbstompings of the GOP. Depending on how salty folks get, I could easily see VT, NH, and RI going "legalization without commercialization" and just let the gray market do its magic...
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Jan 4, 2018 16:23
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It's going to get really loving messy. Sessions and his culture warriors aren't playing around and they don't give a poo poo about GOP electoral losses. God is on their side, and they're gonna do whatever they can to shut down legal weed.quote:“I do expect to see the larger investors and businesses targeted,” said Kevin Sabet, a prominent critic of legalized marijuana and former drug-control policy official in the Obama administration, who praised the step. “I’m not sure whether local mom-and-pop marijuana shops will be affected.” However, Republican Senators do care about electoral losses. Will Woke Cory Gardner save us? quote:“This reported action directly contradicts what Attorney General Sessions told me prior to his confirmation. With no prior notice to Congress, the Justice Department has trampled on the will of the voters in CO and other states,” Mr. Gardner wrote on Twitter, adding: “I am prepared to take all steps necessary, including holding DOJ nominees, until the Attorney General lives up to the commitment he made to me prior to his confirmation.”
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Jan 4, 2018 17:00
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I’m sure that’ll end well dMooselanderII posted:Apparently the new policy would leave it to each US Attorney to figure out what to do. Anyone have any idea how that would shake out? It depends, will Sessions just remove the policy or will he remove it and order the fed. to arrest and prosecute? I’d bet they’d target large growers, sellers, etc. and legally-speaking there’s nothing they’re able to do.
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Jan 4, 2018 17:26
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Then there's the issue of the appropriations bill not allowing money to be used for that purpose.
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Jan 4, 2018 17:29
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GonadTheBallbarian posted:Then there's the issue of the appropriations bill not allowing money to be used for that purpose. That’s only for medical marijuana.
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Jan 4, 2018 17:34
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GonadTheBallbarian posted:I saw that on Reddit, and apparently it's because VT might pass it legislatively in short order yeah but it's a sort of idiotic bill in that it provides no path to tax/sale, to a degree that strong proponents and lobbyists here are accusing the GOP minority of basically trying to tank this by passing a bill that won't bring in revenue and then giving them a way to say "see it doesn't work". We (the state) commissioned a study by the loving RAND corporation which basically concluded that there's a $120,000,000 market in state that could be tapped here, and that doesn't even account for tourism dollars (we may not be CO but we've got a ski lift or two). So, it's just tone-deaf idiocy to proceed with this without tax/sale attached -- especially since the lack of tax revenue in the model was one of the reasons our piece of poo poo governor vetoed this same idea after the legislature overwhelmingly passed it last year. The only reason it's being taken up now is that he's trying to have his cake and eat it too as we roll into election season; I'm going to be out actively banging doors opposing him. (He got elected because the hair-brained Dem candidate wanted to make gun control their signature issue, in a state that has a huge hunting culture and the lowest per capita violent crime rate in the country). Anyway, that's my VT rant. If this passes I'll be able to grow a couple plants, which is cool, but what I really want is to be able to get 5:1 CBD:THC 510g e-cig carts at the corner store.
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Jan 4, 2018 17:54
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To give the devil his due, Sessions has previously raised the valid point that the current status quo is ridiculous, and that if Congress wants him not to enforce the laws, they need to do their job and change the laws. This could be nothing, or a hassle, or it could be the opening that leads to national legalization.
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Jan 4, 2018 17:59
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A hassle might just be growers, sellers, buyers, etc. going to federal prison. That’s a big deal.
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Jan 4, 2018 18:19
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:To give the devil his due, Sessions has previously raised the valid point that the current status quo is ridiculous, and that if Congress wants him not to enforce the laws, they need to do their job and change the laws. I'm honestly shocked that you would fall for such shameless concern trolling from a man who said his only problem with the KKK was that they "smoked pot." Seriously? Sessions hates the demon weed. He doesn't want Congress to reschedule, he wants an wild escalation of the War on Drugs. He wants marijuana use eradicated on American soil. This will be many things but it is absolutely 100% a setback. Accelerationism is bullshit, bad things are not actually good things, this is not the opening that leads to national legalization. Decent people will go to jail over this. the black husserl fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jan 4, 2018 |
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Jan 4, 2018 18:20
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:To give the devil his due, Sessions has previously raised the valid point that the current status quo is ridiculous, and that if Congress wants him not to enforce the laws, they need to do their job and change the laws. To Godwin myself (and maybe divulge my overly simplistic understanding of the 30s), it strikes me a bit like Hitler going on TV in 1934 and saying "Hey Europe, the punitive legislative measures and regulatory framework imposed on my country after the first great war, were excessive and destructive to the economy and social fabric of my country". That is -- Sessions point here on this is certainly valid, true and obvious, but he's also said so much poo poo that is clearly insane, racist and backwards that I think this falls into the "a stopped clock is right twice a day" bucket. I doubt if you disagree with any of this so I'm really not trying to be argumentative; I just can't stand to see any of these fuckers normalized, to a degree that if someone makes a reasonable point that casts one of them in a light that is other than cartoonishly villainous and conniving, my immediate reaction is to make a Hitler comparison.
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Jan 4, 2018 18:21
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Given that the states that have gone full legal seem to be quite happy with it, is there any avenue for those states to fight back against this?
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Jan 4, 2018 18:35
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:To give the devil his due, Sessions has previously raised the valid point that the current status quo is ridiculous, and that if Congress wants him not to enforce the laws, they need to do their job and change the laws. If Congress passed a law making it legal and Session found a way he could prosecute pot-people for it anyway and Congress couldn't stop him, he would absolutely do so. This is just him saying "go ahead and try to stop me". Yes, Congress could technically stop him, but that's not a particularly good argument for why he needs to do this bad thing.
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Jan 4, 2018 18:54
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wrt the attorneys, I guess that's what that flurry of appointments was last week. MA has a new US attny as of Dec 21 experienced in drug trafficking cases, but his stance isn't immediately clear on the subject. My guess is not too kind on the state's approach given his extensive experience and politics. Gov. Baker (R-MA) doesn't support legalization, but stated that they support the will of the voters and are forging ahead with legalization Office of Gov. Baker posted:The administration [Baker admin] believes this is the wrong decision and will review any potential impacts from any policy changes by the local U.S. Attorney’s Office GonadTheBallbarian fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jan 4, 2018 |
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Jan 4, 2018 19:30
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Zamujasa posted:Given that the states that have gone full legal seem to be quite happy with it, is there any avenue for those states to fight back against this? gonzales v raich exists
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Jan 4, 2018 20:16
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https://twitter.com/kandavolu/status/948938968145580033
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Jan 4, 2018 20:21
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If this news has you uncomfortable, have a little empathy for Kevin Sabet, who is struggling to get through a day full of press appearances with an 8-hour erection.
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Jan 4, 2018 20:25
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The transparent goal of this decision is to place a boot firmly on the necks of more individuals that Sessions would like to see in cages. That they might use or lawfully sell cannabis within their respective states is incidental. I guarantee he hand selected the recent US Attorney appointments to ensure they would march in lockstep with his shiny new jackboots. Jeff Sessions is a monster. His unequivocal goal is to hurt people. As many as he can. Black people in particular.
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Jan 4, 2018 20:27
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Session genuinely believes that there aren't nearly enough brown people in prison.
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Jan 4, 2018 21:21
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A Tasteful Nude posted:Jeff Sessions is a monster. His unequivocal goal is to hurt people. As many as he can. Black people in particular. Sessions is simply put "Law and Order". He's already made up his mind on drug reform is quite ok with throwing whomever behind bars marijuana use. Personally, I don't see how it'll last. It won't be too long before little Johnny runs a small side business or gets caught up with the wrong crew only find out he's going to Federal Prison. I'm sure that'll play great on the evening news along with his sobbing suburban mother outside the courthouse.
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Jan 4, 2018 21:29
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I have never much got the impression that Sessions cares all too much about Law, and he doesn't seem to mind a little disorder if it gets him what he wants. I just think he hates a wide variety of types of people, and the law is simply an effective tool he has found to hurt them en masse.
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Jan 4, 2018 21:36
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Tab8715 posted:Personally, I don't see how it'll last. It won't be too long before little Johnny runs a small side business or gets caught up with the wrong crew only find out he's going to Federal Prison. I'm sure that'll play great on the evening news along with his sobbing suburban mother outside the courthouse. Yeah it's not like any kids of wealthy people have gone to prison for selling drugs before, surely once that happens the drug war will end because of outrage.
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Jan 4, 2018 22:07
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So at a bare minimum, isn't this going to spook the few financial institutions that were willing to work with the marijuana industry?
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Jan 4, 2018 22:10
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fishmech posted:Yeah it's not like any kids of wealthy people have gone to prison for selling drugs before, surely once that happens the drug war will end because of outrage. That's part of the reason why it's been legalized in so many States and why Local Law Enforcement has often turned a blind eye towards marijuana. With the drug entry into mainstream it will only build more pressure on voters to remove those from office who won't bring the issue to the table. It won't be a few kids going to jail, it's going to much more folks.
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Jan 4, 2018 22:16
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I believe a lot of states will step in the place of citizens facing charges and sue the federal government under 10th amendment grounds or somesuch. This is a federalism issue at it's core since congress is recalcitrant. Significant majorities of a majority of states are in support of medical if not outright legalization. Likewise, states aren't going to sit by while tax revenue disappears.
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Jan 4, 2018 22:23
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Tab8715 posted:That's part of the reason why it's been legalized in so many States and why Local Law Enforcement has often turned a blind eye towards marijuana. With the drug entry into mainstream it will only build more pressure on voters to remove those from office who won't bring the issue to the table. Ok since I was a bit too subtle there, there's already tons of people going to jail over this. Most states still make it illegal for the majority of people to have weed let alone anything else. The feds going around saying they're not going to wink-wink-nudge-nudge look the other way over real legalization is very unlikely to increase the push for actual legalization in places that aren't already in favor of it. And a bunch of the places people aren't already in favor of weed love all the other dumb bullshit Trump and the Republicans love and do and aren't going to punish them over the weed issue.
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Jan 4, 2018 22:29
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Mr. Nice! posted:I believe a lot of states will step in the place of citizens facing charges and sue the federal government under 10th amendment grounds or somesuch. This is a federalism issue at it's core since congress is recalcitrant. Significant majorities of a majority of states are in support of medical if not outright legalization. Likewise, states aren't going to sit by while tax revenue disappears. but gonzales v. raich established precedent that marijuana cultivation and use fall under the commerce clause even when it doesn't cross state lines, which makes a 10th amendment argument look kind of shaky. i'm not a lawyer though, much less a constitutional one
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Jan 5, 2018 00:11
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hey guys what's up I'm the theoretical career civil servant attorney working for a prosecutor's office in, let's say, the western district of new york for career advancement, I like to keep my conviction rate at 90%+ it sounds like the embattled attorney general who might get fired just issued a policy directive to crack down on marijuana and rescinded a non-binding letter of guidance I'm betting sessions will get replaced if our big investigation into the administration goes anywhere, Friday night massacre style I'm betting my career at the justice department will out last sessions', the next AG, and, probably, this administration. Under Bush and Gonzales, a much yearned for yesteryear of comparative institutional legitimacy, hung juries meant we just didn't bother bringing weed cases unless there were accessory charges and on the east coast. Every time we do a jury trial for pot west of the Mississippi, we get a hung jury. That really screws up my stats and chances at advancement in both public and private spheres. Man, I really wanna work for Greenberg Traurig after my federal benefits vest more. I wonder what I'll do? The above thought experiment is going on in career-minded civil servants all up and down the prosecutorial food chain. I believe the sessions announcement is a complete nothingburger and will have absolutely no practical impact on the federal government's enforcement of weed laws. These institutions are pretty independent, and also stacked full of career-minded, self interested lawyers who know, for fair or foul, that a prosecution made in one administration will follow them through subsequent ones, along with political consequences. Martin Random fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Jan 5, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 01:40
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Martin Random posted:Under Bush and Gonzales, a much yearned for yesteryear of comparative institutional legitimacy, hung juries meant we just didn't bother bringing weed cases unless there were accessory charges and on the east coast. I've been saying since Trump got elected, this poo poo doesn't even play in Texas anymore so what are the odds on a west coast jury.
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Jan 5, 2018 02:16
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Vermont House voted for legal weed today, Senate expected to sign off on it next week, Governor says he'll sign: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/tomangell/2018/01/04/vermont-lawmakers-approve-marijuana-legalization-bill/amp/ One ounce per person 21+, home cultivation of two plants, no commercial sales.
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Jan 5, 2018 02:18
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Vermont House voted for legal weed today, Senate expected to sign off on it next week, Governor says he'll sign: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/tomangell/2018/01/04/vermont-lawmakers-approve-marijuana-legalization-bill/amp/ People are going to be selling each other conspicuously expensive plastic bags that just happen to have free weed inside, aren't they
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Jan 5, 2018 02:22
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Martin Random posted:People are going to be selling each other conspicuously expensive plastic bags that just happen to have free weed inside, aren't they DC has been doing that, and even sillier ruses, for three years now.
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Jan 5, 2018 02:27
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