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Blue Star posted:I get that star wars isnt literally an alternate universe, i was just asking if you think that the Force is supposed to be a real thing within the story of the films, or if its something the Jedi are making up. The Force is not a metaphor for God; it is God. The films take place in our universe, albeit in the past. You ask how Vader can be God, when he is only a cyborg with mutant flesh. Well, how can Christ be God? Christ is just a man who was tortured to death, nailed to a cross. “Ecce homo!” - “Behold the man!” The point is, again, that ‘only a suffering God can save us’. God suffers in solidarity with humanity.
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Jan 3, 2018 21:27
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The Force is not a metaphor for God; it is God.
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Jan 3, 2018 21:29
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The Force is not a metaphor for God; it is God. The films take place in our universe, albeit in the past. Yeah but when Jesus died, God didn't disappear forever from the universe. People still pray to God, worship God, claim to sense the presence of God and to speak to God, and so on. Similarly, even though Vader is God/the Force given flesh, when he died, why would it make the Force just disappear? People can still believe in the Force after Vader died.
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Jan 3, 2018 21:52
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Blue Star posted:Yeah but when Jesus died, God didn't disappear forever from the universe. People still pray to God, worship God, claim to sense the presence of God and to speak to God, and so on. Similarly, even though Vader is God/the Force given flesh, when he died, why would it make the Force just disappear? People can still believe in the Force after Vader died. And the Force seemed to exist before Vader was born.
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Jan 3, 2018 21:55
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Steve2911 posted:And the Force seemed to exist before Vader was born. Right. I can see what SMG is saying with Vader being Christ, a living embodiment of the Force itself. But God existed before Christ was born, and presumeably exists after Christ died. But then again, Christ rose again after three days, and Vader didnt (so far as we know).
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Jan 3, 2018 21:59
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Leia is Hillary and Rose is Bernie Hmm I dunno, OP euphronius posted:He was leaving because his connection wasn't that strong w out Rey there and they were in a no hope situation preparing to die. He's always firstly been on the run from the FO. Rey brought him back. He was leaving so that his friend wouldn't come back to a ship that was about to be destroyed
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Jan 3, 2018 22:02
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Did he have the beacon then ?
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Jan 3, 2018 22:02
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euphronius posted:Did he have the beacon then ? Yeah
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Jan 3, 2018 22:03
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Waffles Inc. posted:Yeah Thanks. Forgot that.
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Jan 3, 2018 22:04
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Waffles Inc. posted:Yeah Yeah, he takes the Beacon after Leia Mary Poppins back and then gives it to Poe right before he leaves once he decides to help instead of running away, presumably as a mark of "I'm actually coming back."
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Jan 3, 2018 22:05
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Mary Poppins is a famous force user.
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Jan 3, 2018 22:06
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euphronius posted:Mary Poppins is a famous force user. This is the big reveal in the upcoming remake, yes. It's why it is coming out in December, it's part of the Star Wars extended universe now.
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Jan 3, 2018 22:07
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Sith Lord Bert
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Jan 3, 2018 22:07
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what exactly are we meant to conclude from leia saving herself? That she's been practicing her force off-screen, or that the force acts as on its own in cases of emergency for protagonists?
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Jan 3, 2018 22:10
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It's the daughter of Anakin Skywalker man.
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Jan 3, 2018 22:12
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Jonathan Fisk posted:what exactly are we meant to conclude from leia saving herself? That she's been practicing her force off-screen, or that the force acts as on its own in cases of emergency for protagonists? She has an inherited elevated midichlorian count
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Jan 3, 2018 22:13
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which supposedly doesn't really matter, if you take the film at its word 
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Jan 3, 2018 22:13
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Jonathan Fisk posted:what exactly are we meant to conclude from leia saving herself? That she's been practicing her force off-screen, or that the force acts as on its own in cases of emergency for protagonists? "Size Matters Not." The force is not a thing you level up like in a video game but rather something that you open yourself up to and trust. (Luke even gives this exact lesson to Rey within the film itself.) It is not a power the Jedi have but an energy field that binds all thing. Leia is provably open to the Force (they even joke about how she's said "may the force be with you" a ton) and it acts through her and saves her life.
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Jan 3, 2018 22:14
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Jonathan Fisk posted:That she's been practicing her force off-screen It's been like 30 years, she may have just picked up the basics from her Jedi brother. quote:or that the force acts as on its own in cases of emergency for protagonists? Yes, it always has.
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Jan 3, 2018 22:16
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The plot armor is strong with this one
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Jan 3, 2018 22:16
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you'd think the jedi would have fared better in space battles
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Jan 3, 2018 22:17
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Jonathan Fisk posted:you'd think the jedi would have fared better in space battles You mean like effortlessly bullsyeing a near-impossible shot or a 10 year old somehow getting into a star fighter, flying through a battle and singlehandedly destroying the enemy's main control center almost by accident? Edit: To be honest I genuinely can't remember an example of Jedi doing badly in space battles. Every single time one of them is in a fighter they seem to do pretty drat well. The worst is Obi-Wan vs Jango Fett and even there he escapes basically unscathed.
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Jan 3, 2018 22:19
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Malcolm XML posted:Rose exists to provide a love interest for Finn and a pointless expositor for capitalism sucks yo, which we know already Pair the minority characters together, and keep them away from the whites who save the day. This is progressive, subversive Star War.
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Jan 3, 2018 22:23
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Blue Star posted:I hate the idea that Force sensitivity and ability to use the Force is actually genetic, it only runs in certain families and you have to have the right genes. I'm not sure that's really true, though- certainly the Skywalker line is in a very advantageous position, but again, nobody's ever told flat out that they can't use the Force, sorry kid, you don't have enough midis. It's always described as something that's in all living things. It's only in the old EU that you started to hear about "non-Force Sensitive" types, and while Lucas did okay that it's still super ancillary.
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Jan 3, 2018 22:28
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ImpAtom posted:You mean like effortlessly bullsyeing a near-impossible shot or a 10 year old somehow getting into a star fighter, flying through a battle and singlehandedly destroying the enemy's main control center almost by accident? Well, that's still him actually doing something, rather than the Death Star blowing up of its own accord I was specifically thinking of the orange master guy who gets shot down in rots, but now that I think about it he was on some planet rather than space
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Jan 3, 2018 22:59
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That is to say, if the force is going to go out of its way to actually intervene and accomplish things on behalf of characters, it kinda renders the actual actions of those characters hollow
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Jan 3, 2018 23:03
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Jonathan Fisk posted:That is to say, if the force is going to go out of its way to actually intervene and accomplish things on behalf of characters, it kinda renders the actual actions of those characters hollow As with most religious stories the goal is not the actual achievement of the action but the development of the soul. The point isn't that the characters can do a thing (because yes, God can do it for them) but that the actions and choices and challenges they make temper their spirit and make them better individuals. It is why Yoda's entire purpose of showing up isn't to blow up the Jedi textbooks but to teach Luke a lesson about failure. The actual destruction of the books is unimportant.
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Jan 3, 2018 23:25
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Rose and Finn freeing the unHorses is meaningless. At best they are captured again, worst they are gunned down like womp rats. Maybe it is meant to represent the rebellion, just a tiny meaningless blip in the galaxy. Wasn't Finn supposed to be Rey's love interest in TFA? Didnt a bunch of dorks flip out about it?
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Jan 3, 2018 23:26
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ImpAtom posted:As with most religious stories the goal is not the actual achievement of the action but the development of the soul. The point isn't that the characters can do a thing (because yes, God can do it for them) but that the actions and choices and challenges they make temper their spirit and make them better individuals. It is why Yoda's entire purpose of showing up isn't to blow up the Jedi textbooks but to teach Luke a lesson about failure. The actual destruction of the books is unimportant. This is all well and good from a philosophical perspective but it's not really relevant to what occurs on film here Luke, Anakin, and Leia don't change as characters at all from these incidents
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Jan 3, 2018 23:35
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The Force impregnated Padme so it has to have some will of its own.
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Jan 4, 2018 00:23
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Blue Star posted:Yeah but when Jesus died, God didn't disappear forever from the universe. People still pray to God, worship God, claim to sense the presence of God and to speak to God, and so on. What you are saying is literally the premise of the fundamentalist God’s Not Dead series of films. Or in Watchmen: “God exists, and he’s American!” When we talk about the death of God, we do not mean the end of religion. What we mean is the realization that there never was a God. Specifically, what died with Christ is the God of Beyond - the notion of a transcendent being with a divine plan, or who provides a natural order to things (or whatever). These are excuses for suffering, when the message of Christ is that there is no excuse for suffering: “Father, why have you forsaken me?” There is suffering in the universe because God himself is impotent, suffering. God is undead. “There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny.” While Han technically right, he still believes there is a natural order to things (the free market or whatever). He is flippant when, if he fully accepted the truth of his words, he would be absolutely terrified by the abyss of freedom that has opened up before him. God is not in control. “Ever since He can remember, people have died in His good name. Long before that September, Long before hijacking planes. He's lost the will. He can't decide. He doesn't know who's right or wrong. But there's one thing that He's sure of: This has been going on too long.” -Lily Allen, “Him” Allen’s song is effectively about the same dilemma faced by Anakin in Episode 3, who still believes in his ‘chosen one’ hype - still believes that he be all things to all people, still believes that he can take control of the situation. With all his petulant wrath, Anakin is very much the Old Testament to Vader’s New Testament. It takes being burnt alive to smarten him up SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Jan 4, 2018 |
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Jan 4, 2018 00:27
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cool
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Jan 4, 2018 00:30
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As it happens, the title of The Force Awakens literally means “God’s Not Dead” - “God didn’t die on the cross with Vader; He was only sleeping!”
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Jan 4, 2018 00:34
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:As it happens, the title of The Force Awakens literally means “God’s Not Dead” - “God didn’t die on the cross with Vader; He was only sleeping!” If God's not dead, why hasn't He stopped you from posting
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Jan 4, 2018 00:53
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I think it's great that they are clearly not horses at all but look close enough where our latent anti animal prejudices erase them from the plot. This is great because it's a comment on mans cruelty to animals and also something Lucas did a lot in the prequels successfully. Lot going on in Canto Bight.
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Jan 4, 2018 00:58
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Jeb! Repetition posted:If God's not dead, why hasn't He stopped you from posting I am the ultimate killing machine.
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Jan 4, 2018 01:06
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:What you are saying is literally the premise of the fundamentalist God’s Not Dead series of films. Or in Watchmen: “God exists, and he’s American!” So the Force was never real within the narrative, then. Thats what I was asking. The Force was a myth, and the Jedi were just psychic mutants that manipulated people into believing there was a Force and that they alone could tap into it. This would cause people to revere the Jedi as being holy men, prophets, saints, avatars of the divine, and chosen ones. But their psychic powers have nothing to do with a mystical energy field generated by all living things, and there never WAS an energy field generated by all living things. I admit i would prefer it if the Force was a really real thing in Star Wars (I've always enjoyed the mystical, spiritual, transcendent themes), but this is an interesting way to look at it. If the Jedi were hucksters, what were the Sith? The Sith, interestingly, do not seem to want to make people revere them. Palpatine doesn't try to make people revere the Sith and neither does Vader, or Maul, or Count Dooku. Palpatine was happy to just sit on his throne and have his Empire; he didnt seem to care if his underlings believed in the Force. So if the Jedi are organized religion, would the Sith be secular power? Fascism, capitalism, big government, corporations, industry, and all that? The Jedi fear they are losing their influence on the galaxy, and the Sith, through the Empire, are ascendent. Secularism wins in the prequels and the Original Trilogy is about restoring the old religion. If thats true, what is the sequel trilogy about?
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Jan 4, 2018 01:13
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euphronius posted:I think it's great that they are clearly not horses at all but look close enough where our latent anti animal prejudices erase them from the plot. This is great because it's a comment on mans cruelty to animals and also something Lucas did a lot in the prequels successfully. Lot going on in Canto Bight. No Wave fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jan 4, 2018 |
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Jan 4, 2018 01:19
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No Wave posted:Alternatively you can lol at the liberals freeing the racehorses and leaving behind the slaves. Racehorses could possibly live in the wild. Children, not so much. Taking direct action there would mean bringing them to a Rebellion that was taking casualties by the second or letting them out into the wilderness. They leave an IOU, and that's the best they can do where they're at.
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Jan 4, 2018 01:29
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Is it normal for men's nipples to be that tiny btw? Do I just have big ones? Jeb! Repetition posted:How can someone make it through an entire one of these posts, for serious I like this juxtaposition
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