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kingcom posted:Your pilot gets it. He gets some neat stuff. At one point he gets a sentient weapon that is both a pretty neat weapon and role plays well with him until they need to get rid of it. He has a couple good weapons and a little mini arc around his belt of dwarven kind. Plus he, the relative newcomer, gets the Deck.
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Jan 4, 2018 04:45
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Blooming Brilliant posted:Not wanting to give anything away, but watch the Lv. 17 Battle Royale. It's one of the show's best episodes. Im up to episode 4 so lol I don't think i'm ever getting up to that. Trojan Kaiju posted:He gets some neat stuff. At one point he gets a sentient weapon that is both a pretty neat weapon and role plays well with him until they need to get rid of it. He has a couple good weapons and a little mini arc around his belt of dwarven kind. Plus he, the relative newcomer, gets the Deck. Is he ever doing anything more than comic relief, I mean from what I saw so far he steals the show pretty consistently either way but I mostly hope he gets to have his big moments too. kingcom fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Jan 4, 2018 |
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Jan 4, 2018 05:07
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:a child claiming to be yours with reasonable but not unimpeachable evidence sounds like a good encounter to me This was a major plot point in the middle of Critical Role. kingcom posted:I've only watched a little bit but Travis seems like the best of the group and I really hope he gets to try and do all the cool poo poo. I don't know if he gets a bunch of cool magic items later on but I got to watch a few fight where the casters obliterate everything and he comes in to knock over some goblins and get his brain eaten by a intellect devourer so lol. Scanlan and Grog are the best. I totally turned around on Scanlan. I thought it was total throwaway juvenile jokes and nothing else, but Sam is pretty amazing and crafty.
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Jan 4, 2018 05:15
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kingcom posted:Im up to episode 4 so lol I don't think i'm ever getting up to that. Travis never totally foregoes comedy but there are periods where he mellows in accordance to how the story relates to him.
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Jan 4, 2018 05:23
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I love how back before they started it all as a home game, Sam told Matt "I want to play the most useless character!" and he told him to play a Gnome Bard. Admittedly this was back when they were playing in Pathfinder, the conversion into 5E had... amusing consequences.
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Jan 4, 2018 07:22
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Arthil posted:I love how back before they started it all as a home game, Sam told Matt "I want to play the most useless character!" and he told him to play a Gnome Bard. This is legitimately a great way to figure out who knows jack loving poo poo about the actual game they're playing and make up for it with dumb tabletop nerd bullshit memes. The bard has been plenty powerful right out of the box since 3e first came out 18 goddamn years ago. And it was hilariously super powerful in AD&D, too. "  bards are weak and dumb" has no basis in reality outside of "tabletop nerds got really, really upset that theater nerds were more interesting and popular.Spoilers: you can look at every class and how D&D nerds look at it and immediately know who they were jealous of in primary school.
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Jan 4, 2018 10:02
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So everyone here thinks fighters suck because they're just jealous of jocks? That's some dumb fuckin logic my dude.
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Jan 4, 2018 10:05
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Malpais Legate posted:So everyone here thinks fighters suck because they're just jealous of jocks? People think Bards suck because of our mental image of what a Bard is and does, but if you stopped and actually looked at the game for a second, you'd realize that they're a full caster that can purloin spells from different classes, so of fuckin' course they're at least one of, if not THE, strongest class in the game. I mean, it's not a stretch to imagine why someone would think a small, 3-foot duder with a lute isn't great for D&D.
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Jan 4, 2018 10:11
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Oh no don't get me wrong I'm not arguing that bards suck. Just that "nerds think it's terrible therefore it's good" is obviously not a measure for like, anything about this game.
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Jan 4, 2018 10:16
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Malpais Legate posted:Oh no don't get me wrong I'm not arguing that bards suck. Just that "nerds think it's terrible therefore it's good" is obviously not a measure for like, anything about this game. That wasn't my point. My point was, "nerds think it's terrible and never, ever actually examine it." Nerds don't think bards are bad because they're actually bad, they think bards are bad because their own dumb mental image of a bard is dumb and nonsensical. A mental image that is in no way actually related to or connected to the game. Bards throughout 3e, 4e, and going into 5e have all been exceptional. You don't even have to pour over book after book to find weird combos for them, they're good out of the box. They've also typically been pretty newbie friendly. But no, bards are bad. Because nerds say they're bad. Because they think and want them to be bad. The second someone gets all "hur hur hur bards" you can legitimately excise all their opinions about the game, because they have never actually read or examined it.
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Jan 4, 2018 10:22
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gradenko_2000 posted:People think Bards suck because of our mental image of what a Bard is and does, but if you stopped and actually looked at the game for a second, you'd realize that they're a full caster that can purloin spells from different classes, so of fuckin' course they're at least one of, if not THE, strongest class in the game. They were talking about Pathfinder bard originally. I don't think anyone thinks 5e bards suck.
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Jan 4, 2018 11:03
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MonsterEnvy posted:They were talking about Pathfinder bard originally. I don't think anyone thinks 5e bards suck. The pathfinder bard is really good though? It jacks everyone in the party up by about 2 levels worth of bonuses before you get to their spells and attacks. This becomes something you are just spending your swift action on, they are legit solid loving classes. Arthil posted:I love how back before they started it all as a home game, Sam told Matt "I want to play the most useless character!" and he told him to play a Gnome Bard. I think its amazing how badly people underestimate bards. Its genuinely hilarious how unaware people are of how much they can just shape the entire game and any combat decision is focused on how they like to play.
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Jan 4, 2018 11:23
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When 3.X/PF was fresh "Bards suck" was all but an official edition slogan. I liked to play Bards and would catch occasional poo poo for it. Its the same crowd that called 4E Bards overpowered for actually having a niche or two.
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Jan 4, 2018 11:24
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3.PF Bards might not be to the level of CODzilla, but to make a distinction between "great class" and "greatest class" is just nitpicking the overall point that if someone asks you what the most useless character is, a Bard certainly isn't it.
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Jan 4, 2018 11:30
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kingcom posted:The pathfinder bard is really good though? It jacks everyone in the party up by about 2 levels worth of bonuses before you get to their spells and attacks. This becomes something you are just spending your swift action on, they are legit solid loving classes. Like Razorwired said Bards being bad was just kind of a meme. Even though they honestly were not bad.
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Jan 4, 2018 11:30
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I actually wonder how much of it is also linked to Bards being billed as a support class. The vast majority of terrible D&D nerds don't actually play the game as a group, ESPECIALLY not when it comes to combat, and support classes being looked down on is pretty par the course. The D&D community is...really just 90% Hanzo and Genji mains, when you get down to it, huh? Nerds are nerds regardless of their poison.
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Jan 4, 2018 11:34
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I think it's because of this minmaxy mindset where every character has to pick one specific thing and then be the best at that thing ever. My PF campaign has two players who are guilty of this mindset- one of them built a character who's MAXIMUM HEALER and neutered any and all damage he could do just so he could up his AC to absurd rates and throw out the most powerful heal spells he could, the other is playing a fragile-as-paper barbarian who's blitzed her speed to absurd levels and just runs up and murders an enemy in one round hoping that the healer can counter any damage they take and the "Tank" can take hits instead of them. A Bard isn't the strongest attacker, they don't have the strongest spells, they don't do the most healing, they can't take the most punishment, and their buffing is party-wide instead of single-targeting the one person who "should" be doing a given role. Maybe people think bards suck because they're all around great at everything instead of being minmaxed monstrosities who neatly fill the model where everyone has only one job and they do it the best ever. (This mindset has also made it so said healer never contributes anything of value and said barbarian usually ends up facedown in a pool of her own blood most fights, while the non-minmaxed sorcerer, paladin, and 'bard' cavalier are usually perfectly fine in a given situation because they use their brains instead of their numbers)
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Jan 4, 2018 12:06
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Fumbles posted:Maybe people think bards suck because they're all around great at everything instead of being minmaxed monstrosities who neatly fill the model where everyone has only one job and they do it the best ever. They were more ok at everything then great back in 3e and Pathfinder.
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Jan 4, 2018 12:10
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Just to be clear, it was Liam who told Sam to go Gnome Bard, not Matt. Also this was after Liam played the game one time. I really don't think any of them, know or in fact care about the "meta" of DnD classes.
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Jan 4, 2018 13:16
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Blooming Brilliant posted:I really don't think any of them, know or in fact care about the "meta" of DnD classes. Recommending Bard as the most useless character because your only frame of reference is cultural osmosis and maybe a visual first impression about what a Bard is and does rather than any actual knowledge of how the game works was exactly the point.
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Jan 4, 2018 13:19
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Razorwired posted:When 3.X/PF was fresh "Bards suck" was all but an official edition slogan. I liked to play Bards and would catch occasional poo poo for it. The "fresh hot idea" was that the Critical Role people look down on theater people, and then tried to make fun of people that talk about things they dont know about. Just ignore it.
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Jan 4, 2018 13:21
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My last campaign, our Bard wiped the rest of the party consisting of a Cleric, a Sorcerer, and a Paladin. Literal 3 on 1 and the Bard won. That's my Bard story.
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Jan 4, 2018 13:34
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FRINGE posted:The "fresh hot idea" was that the Critical Role people look down on theater people, and then tried to make fun of people that talk about things they dont know about. Just ignore it. It's not, actually, but play on my dude. By which I mean both your statement and the idea this statement is a new concept Cirno just theorized.
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Jan 4, 2018 13:35
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In 5E at 6th level the character I'm balancing fights around right now is the Bard. I did roll one for a game I was playing in but was gatekeepered out for not singing literally every spell and inspire I did in a session, whilst also getting heckled for every one I did whilst also trying to play electric keyboard to the music even though I was learning keyboard just for that.
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Jan 4, 2018 13:41
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Mr. Maltose posted:It's not, actually, but play on my dude. By which I mean both your statement and the idea this statement is a new concept Cirno just theorized.
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Jan 4, 2018 14:10
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No poo poo, my dude. The entire point is that Bards are Bad is a meme from a game of telephone that no one actually checks out and originated from a bitter nerd idiot, not that the group of professional actors hate acting.
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Jan 4, 2018 14:22
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ProfessorCirno posted:I actually wonder how much of it is also linked to Bards being billed as a support class. The vast majority of terrible D&D nerds don't actually play the game as a group, ESPECIALLY not when it comes to combat, and support classes being looked down on is pretty par the course. Support classes have always been my favorite thing in tabletop and online games, which is the biggest reason I enjoyed 4th ed as a player. Same for most of the players in my main old group. It was weird, because nobody really liked 4th much until we discovered that everyone can go support and it not only works, it's a fairly good option because nearly everything anyone can do will also either heal or buff at least one other PC.
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Jan 4, 2018 14:40
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The concept of bards are innately ridiculous and that’s why people make fun of them. Not sure why this needs to be puzzled out, it’s a guy taking a guitar to a fight
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Jan 4, 2018 14:54
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The concept of wizards are innately ridiculous and that’s why people make fun of them. Not sure why this needs to be puzzled out, it’s a guy taking bat guano to a fight
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Jan 4, 2018 15:01
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FRINGE posted:The CR people are all professional actors. They dont look down on theater. The DM has said repeatedly that the bard is his favorite, and the character he would want to be out of the group. Lol the post you're quoting says that wasn't the point and you go ahead and argue against the fake point anyway. Classic. I mean tbf it was a really juicy straw man: professional voice actors hating theatre. The point as explained above was that anyone who thinks the bard is bad doesn't know the system and is either making assumptions based on the ridiculousness of the concept or has internalized decades old memes. The part about hating theatre geeks was just a burn about the theoretical meme originator, not a statement that everyone who plays D&D thinks that way.
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Jan 4, 2018 15:12
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Holy boats you nerds will get into a tizzy about things! Specifically as it relates to Critical Role, you dumbos, Scanlan could be a useless bard if his whole schtick was dick jokes and being a pervert. You could argue that is his whole schtick for most of the series. But the guy playing him is extremely smart in how and when he uses his spells and is easily the most competent caster in the group. There's your yin and yang of "the bard is a dumb class concept" and "they are mechanically one of the stronger classes".
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Jan 4, 2018 16:35
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Pleads posted:Holy boats you nerds will get into a tizzy about things! Someone pointed out how funny it was that quote:back before they started it all as a home game, Sam told Matt "I want to play the most useless character!" and he told him to play a Gnome Bard then people posited various reasons why Gnome Bards could ever be remotely considered "the most useless character". It had nothing to do with this dude's evolution as a player over the course of the show.
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Jan 4, 2018 17:14
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The bard as the "useless" guy narratively has been a trope for a million years(...or whatever, since the first d&d bard) and has nothing to do with theater kids(lmao) or mechanical strength, it's a purely narrative "how this character fits on a team" sense. He's the lovable useless guy. The fact that he's not actually useless once you get to the gridsquare part of the game isn't relevant.
Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Jan 4, 2018 |
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Jan 4, 2018 17:18
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Splicer posted:The concept of wizards are innately ridiculous and that’s why people make fun of them. Not sure why this needs to be puzzled out, it’s a guy taking bat guano to a fight But it *is* ridiculous. Bards are Wizards except somehow "using music!" leading to a big thematic disconnect from the rest of the classes. They suffer from an identity crisis worse than Rangers and Warlocks.
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Jan 4, 2018 17:31
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The only real big issue is I can’t even think of a fighter Bard in fiction. It’s a uniquely DnD bit of weirdness
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Jan 4, 2018 17:34
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Fans posted:The only real big issue is I can’t even think of a fighter Bard in fiction that's not played for comedy. It’s a uniquely DnD bit of weirdness FTFY
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Jan 4, 2018 17:40
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I always assumed it was because of Final Fantasy 4 memes, personally.
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Jan 4, 2018 17:42
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Fans posted:The only real big issue is I can’t even think of a fighter Bard in fiction. It’s a uniquely DnD bit of weirdness  
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Jan 4, 2018 17:52
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Jan 4, 2018 17:56
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six-string samurai would make a badass campaign setting actually
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Jan 4, 2018 17:59
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