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I talked to a young family member when the pewdiepie nazi thing happened, they understood why racism/bullying is wrong because they were taught that by family, school, media etc. They didn't seem to care much though cause according to them school kids don't watch pewdiepie, all the kids at school watch jake and logan and the hundreds of similar channels. Talked to them about logan yesterday and they knew he did a stupid thing but doesn't understand why adults are still making a deal about it after he apologized. I was about to explain when a wasp flew into my shirt and i completely forgot about this poo poo until I opened this thread.
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Jan 5, 2018 09:59
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Visidan posted:Talked to them about logan yesterday and they knew he did a stupid thing but doesn't understand why adults are still making a deal about it after he apologized. I was about to explain when a wasp flew into my shirt and i completely forgot about this poo poo until I opened this thread. I teach Middle School kids and I'm very interested to discuss this whole episode with them when I get back in on Monday.
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Jan 5, 2018 10:19
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The other side of the parasocial interaction coin is that it can mess with the head of the celebrity in the same way it does with their fans. The fans may come to believe they have a new friend, but the celebrity believes they suddenly have thousands of new friends. And some of those friends are so loyal they’ll worship you no matter what you do, while others are so nit-picky they’ll complain no matter what you do. And they’re all relying on you to keep them entertained, week after week, month after month. I’ve heard it said that it feels like an immense amount of pressure. In the off-chance I ever achieve my dream of being a bestselling author, I’m going the Thomas Pynchon route and staying as far away from the limelight as possible. Being the center of attention just isn’t worth the strain on your mental health.
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Jan 5, 2018 10:59
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If you want a thorough breakdown of just how hosed some of the Marvel stuff got, particularly surrounding Captain America, read Comics and Cowardice.
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Jan 5, 2018 11:00
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Visidan posted:I talked to a young family member when the pewdiepie nazi thing happened, they understood why racism/bullying is wrong because they were taught that by family, school, media etc. They didn't seem to care much though cause according to them school kids don't watch pewdiepie, all the kids at school watch jake and logan and the hundreds of similar channels. This took a horrifying turn. I hope you are okay and I hope that wasp is dead in hell. gently caress wasps.
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Jan 5, 2018 11:16
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John Murdoch posted:If you want a thorough breakdown of just how hosed some of the Marvel stuff got, particularly surrounding Captain America, read Comics and Cowardice. No, don't, that dude talks out of his rear end about comics and knows nothing of the business. Seriously, do not tell people to read anything Spacetwinks writes about Marvel, because he basically makes poo poo up for the benefit of people who just want a strawman.
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Jan 5, 2018 12:04
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The big picture here is the slow death of print media, isn't it? Walking around with heads in arses, totally without guidance, desperate for appeal from anywhere.
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Jan 5, 2018 12:28
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You outright have most of Cartoon Network's storyboarding and comics division roster being penned by webcomic people, you have most self-published Kickstarter and Patreon run people getting gargantuan amounts of readers and big name awards but because it's not under DC or Marvel, they're not acknowledged. For crissakes, you still have in 2017 comics writers giving 2003,2004 HI I'M A SEMI-SUCCESSFUL STORYBOARDER IN AN ANIMATION STUDIO, IF YOU EVER DRAW BUNNY EARS AND PINK HAIR ON A CHARACTER DESIGN EVER ANDREW LOOMIS WILL COME OUT OF THE GROUND AND TURN YOUR FACE INTO HAMBURGER AND YOU WILL BE BLACKLISTED FROM ANY CHANCE OF SUCCESSFUL EMPLOYMENT IN THE ARTS, ALSO LET ROBERT CRUMB SMELL YOU IF YOU'RE A CHICK Type advice while people who grew up making Sonic OCs and Inuyasha fanfiction do circles around them writing Shoujo/Shouen type webcomics on the most hyper specific poo poo they always wanted to do. It's why that Vice 2017 10 comics to read thing got so much poo poo! You have people that are getting a way, way better share from their revenue and a much more wide and engaged audience getting dismissed purely by "Oh, but these millions of readers are all basement dwelling extremely online dipshits, also did you know Tezuka, The God Creator Of Anime and Manga, Was Inspired Fully By Disney???"
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Jan 5, 2018 13:57
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As a kid and POC, I read comics and quickly grew out of them. I prefer manga but I really don't read those either. You can't save the comic industry as it was, the industry has to move on. Digital comics, adaptations, graphic novels, anthologies are the way forward. And the stuff about representation never appealed to me or to people I know. It comes off pandering and hollow. Its better to let writers and artists organically and authentically produce art than force representation. Promoting POC artists isn't really the solution either because I've tried to read comics by POC artists and they can suck as good as anyone else. POC like the same poo poo as everyone, just make good poo poo.
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Jan 5, 2018 14:33
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I mean Hercules was a better book than the Hulk so replacing Bruce Banner with a character from Hercules can only be an upgrade.
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Jan 5, 2018 14:35
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END ME SCOOB posted:No, don't, that dude talks out of his rear end about comics and knows nothing of the business. Well poo poo. As an essay it was already kinda rambly and unfocused but I didn't know it wasn't in good faith.
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Jan 5, 2018 15:07
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lornekates posted:Ninja'd by the link to The Wiki Of Wikis, but there's also a video series going on about Parasocial Relationsihps right now. I did a shorter and less academic video on the same topic a while back, pulling in Mr. Rogers, Vin Scully, TV news stalkers, and the 1950s radio girlfriend show. https://vimeo.com/96955525
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Jan 5, 2018 15:13
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Kim Justice posted:The big picture here is the slow death of print media, isn't it? Walking around with heads in arses, totally without guidance, desperate for appeal from anywhere. It's more particular for comics. The only real distributor for physical comics at this point is Diamond, who is purely a direct market distributor; they managed to get a monopoly and push all other distributors out of the industry decades ago. They're purely a direct market distributor, which is why you don't see comics at places like Wal-Mart; they only distribute to dedicated stores. Now, unlike book distributors, they also don't allow the return of unsold material. This means that the only sales figures they have available are direct market sales, and not sales to consumers. Even the publishers don't get these numbers, because they just aren't collected nationally on physical sales. This causes an issue, in that of course sites have to order their stock well in advance. They order based on solicitations that the publishers put out, but these are little more than short blurbs describing the creative team and a very brief synopsis of the plot of an issue, so actual quality of work or critical response are both nearly irrelevant. This altogether means that you only really see big sellers as #0s/1s or milestone numbers, because stores know those sell well and so they order more stock for them (often coupled with variant cover deals and other things that encourage stores to order in higher numbers), and most all comics have a huge drop in numbers otherwise, since stores know they...don't, and even for new lines they have to order stock for #2 before they know the reception or popularity of #1. This results in a pretty obvious feedback loop that means that nowadays movie releases don't even nudge the needle on related comics, and a good seller is one that manages to hit mid-to-high five digits nationwide. And of course it also means that buying a comic does basically nothing to keep it alive, that you have to pre-order it in order to contribute to its success. The "death of print media" might be a factor, but this was happening well before that, so if anything it would've just accelerated it. And interestingly, that seems to have slowed down on actual books anyway, so I'm not even certain on that. (In the US at least, out of all books sold, last I looked the market share of physical books as a percentage has been pretty steady over the last decade or so, and ebooks have actually been giving up ground to audiobooks of all things.) It might actually be helping the industry even, since they can actually finally track real purchases now via things like Comixology; it's pretty widely thought that this has had a real impact on the survival of comics that fifteen years ago might have just gotten cut. Idran fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Jan 5, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 15:24
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temple posted:As a kid and POC, I read comics and quickly grew out of them. You grew up, but you're still a kid? That doesn't make sense. temple posted:I prefer manga Never mind, makes sense. -- Thank you for tuning in to Lorne Intentional Misinterprets Someone's Grammar In Order To Make An Anime Joke. Like, share, subscribe, and hit up my Patreon!
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Jan 5, 2018 15:28
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echopapa posted:I did a shorter and less academic video on the same topic a while back, pulling in Mr. Rogers, Vin Scully, TV news stalkers, and the 1950s radio girlfriend show. Thanks for re-posting, I was just thinking about that essay. It was really good.
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Jan 5, 2018 15:29
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Bakeneko posted:The other side of the parasocial interaction coin is that it can mess with the head of the celebrity in the same way it does with their fans. The fans may come to believe they have a new friend, but the celebrity believes they suddenly have thousands of new friends. And some of those friends are so loyal they’ll worship you no matter what you do, while others are so nit-picky they’ll complain no matter what you do. And they’re all relying on you to keep them entertained, week after week, month after month. I’ve heard it said that it feels like an immense amount of pressure. Unfortunately being a leering attention sponge is near-required to survive in "creative" fields nowadays, it's all about brand-building and so on and etc
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Jan 5, 2018 15:33
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If you followed Let's Play/Justin.tv stuff in 2007 or so you could start seeing this slowly flourish as folk got into Google Video and started making longer videos and longer videos and started slowly getting into streams of almost real player media quality vids of like someone screaming while playing Halo. And as quality got better and better, streamers slowly got more and more creative with what kind of stuff they could stream for hours that people will watch. There is a 5 hour Skies of Arcadia stream on the VineSauce archives where the commentary is Vinny trying to explain the Norm McDonald 420 sketch for 3 WHOLE HOURS. Twitch itself was baffled years back with Joel just spending an hour streaming nothing but the new Godzilla poster and talking about the movie he just watched. Hell, look at this: https://twitter.com/fussybabybitch/status/920155867999174656 Of course people are going to, after listening to hours of someone doing a thing, suddenly go "Oh yeah I probably want to talk to this person", when you're practically listening to a radio call in show with game footage playing on the background. It is not a surprise that some folk of the alt-right saw this and went "Ok, I'm gonna do this with my content".
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Jan 5, 2018 16:11
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Kim Justice posted:The big picture here is the slow death of print media, isn't it? Walking around with heads in arses, totally without guidance, desperate for appeal from anywhere. Capes comics have been on a long, slow decline for a while now. The distribution issues mentioned above are a factor, but a second issue is that it's a pretty incestuous niche: Fans of comics grow up to be the people managing the comics, and for a long time comics fans as a whole have been the same kind of grognardy nerds as the types that treat "gamer" as an identity. So there's a lot of catering to True Fans, those being the ones who have been around forever and know all the ridiculously complicated lore and timelines and basically want more of the same, and a lot of ignoring any outsiders, because of flashbacks to the time those cheerleaders totally laughed at my Batman lunchbox, meaning that girls naturally despise all superheroes and thus we should not bother considering them as an audience. Which, given that said True Fans are also inclined to blow their budgets on comics and related merchandise, wouldn't normally be bad. Except that True Fans are not immortal, and often tend to have extremely unhealthy habits, so they're starting to drop off as consumers. And there's no younger fans to pick up the slack, because despite comics properties being megahits, comics themselves are obscure, have massive barriers to entry, and have aggressive gatekeepers at every level. It's a clubhouse with "MEMBERS ONLY NO GIRLS ALLOWED," but as a business model, in a business that desperately needs growth to survive.
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Jan 5, 2018 17:02
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I don't know if this is a significant factor that gets talked about, but as someone who once was really into comics, I got burnt out by the endless looping brought on by the wider franchising and constant need for big events. It was hard to really get into anything because a movie would come out, so the whole line was rebooted/simplified in an attempt to grab new customers, but then any changes or moves forward were undone to appease old fans, but then a new movie came out so the line had to be rebooted/simplified in an attempt to grab new customers, but then... It just got so incredibly tiring. I don't know if they're still doing that and I can't speak for anyone else or even if that's been a thing people mention in regards to the decline of comics, but that's my story.
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Jan 5, 2018 17:15
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SkeletonHero posted:I don't know if this is a significant factor that gets talked about, but as someone who once was really into comics, I got burnt out by the endless looping brought on by the wider franchising and constant need for big events. It was hard to really get into anything because a movie would come out, so the whole line was rebooted/simplified in an attempt to grab new customers, but then any changes or moves forward were undone to appease old fans, but then a new movie came out so the line had to be rebooted/simplified in an attempt to grab new customers, but then... That's the nice thing with manga. If you want to know the story of Spike Seigal okay, here's 26 episodes. No spin offs or tie ins or special episodes with him in other manga that you've got to also track down and read. Sure, if you start looking at one of the really big ones like One Piece you've got like 700 chapters to get through, but compared to trying to read every comic that Superman's ever been in, it's such a magnitude of a smaller investment.
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Jan 5, 2018 17:29
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Not sure if the thread has discussed Pop Culture Detective before, but I stumbled onto his channel and he's really good. He has a couple videos tearing down The Big Bang Theory for being crazy sexist that were really excellent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3-hOigoxHs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L7NRONADJ4 It's rare to see such a well done discussion of how sexist our media can be coming from a guy, but he's done an amazing job in laying it all out.
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Jan 5, 2018 17:43
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The labyrinthine continuity is the main reason I never got into comics. I normally love complicated stories, but only when they’re presented in such a way that you can easily tell where they begin and end. Superhero comics always seem to be building on years or even decades worth of older stories, with characters showing up out of nowhere and talking about things you won’t understand unless you’ve been following the series from the start. If you add to that the effect of all the crossovers that punish you if you don’t read every single individual book, it can become a confusing mess.
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Jan 5, 2018 17:44
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SkeletonHero posted:I don't know if this is a significant factor that gets talked about, but as someone who once was really into comics, I got burnt out by the endless looping brought on by the wider franchising and constant need for big events. It was hard to really get into anything because a movie would come out, so the whole line was rebooted/simplified in an attempt to grab new customers, but then any changes or moves forward were undone to appease old fans, but then a new movie came out so the line had to be rebooted/simplified in an attempt to grab new customers, but then... I was the same way. I really got into comics during high school, and was enjoying on the whole most of the stuff I read until the Nu52 reboot. The biggest thing to me was that I was a big fan of the Young Justice/Teen Titans stuff, and those characters were the ones that got hit the hardest with the reboot, and I think most of them aren't even around after the last one. And I just lost interest, outside of checking in on news sites and spoilers to see how things are doing nowadays. RareAcumen posted:That's the nice thing with manga. If you want to know the story of Spike Seigal okay, here's 26 episodes. No spin offs or tie ins or special episodes with him in other manga that you've got to also track down and read. Sure, if you start looking at one of the really big ones like One Piece you've got like 700 chapters to get through, but compared to trying to read every comic that Superman's ever been in, it's such a magnitude of a smaller investment. There are some series out there that do have some reboots/spin-offs, but they feel more like Sherlock Holmes. By which I mean you know going in that there are a few rules about the characters, but the crew is putting on their own personal spin, and you're not stuck with the latest version being the official, definitive version. And with the big series, it's just a few weeks or whatever to catch up on however many chapters are already out, and once you're caught up, it's 5-10 minutes a week to read the chapter.
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Jan 5, 2018 17:48
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RareAcumen posted:That's the nice thing with manga. If you want to know the story of Spike Seigal okay, here's 26 episodes. I too enjoyed the great Manga, 'The Story of Spike Seigal', all 26 episodes of said manga.
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Jan 5, 2018 17:50
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Superhero comics are like a Franz Kafka nightmare to me and I have read comics/comics for 17+ years. At this point I can't really see that genera ever escaping the bureaucracy of it's fandom. I think superhero comics will dwindle until they are just subsumed into WB/Disney entirely before they ever change anything about how the comics are made/plotted/sold/marketed.
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Jan 5, 2018 17:58
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RareAcumen posted:That's the nice thing with manga. If you want to know the story of Spike Seigal okay, here's 26 episodes. No spin offs or tie ins or special episodes with him in other manga that you've got to also track down and read. Sure, if you start looking at one of the really big ones like One Piece you've got like 700 chapters to get through, but compared to trying to read every comic that Superman's ever been in, it's such a magnitude of a smaller investment. Manga is also the product of a single writer so you kind of know what you are going to get for the whole thing. I prefer that a lot to the cape comics style of often changing writers (and artists) at the drop of a hat, which results in wildly varying quality for your favorite characters. Andrast fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Jan 5, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 18:06
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ANother issue with cape comics is the fact that a lot of people my age who grew up reading comics mainly read either trade collections or manga. I’m betting Ms. Marvel has more people reading the trade books from barns and nobel than single issues. The issue is that Marvel and DC downs on Diamond single issue sales to determine what sells, three months before the issue hits shelves. Not what sells in trade. They might as well not exist. Comics as a medium is actually a extremely diverse, very large thing. But the comic press online only pays attention to DC, Marvel, maybe Image and IDW. BigRed0427 fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Jan 5, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 18:23
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Roth posted:Jane Foster Thor dying has been something that has been planned for a while now by Jason Aaron. I think for Marvel at least they should look at going back to the Shooter method of making comics. Also as far as supporting Marvel means you are supporting Trump, I feel like that if you consume anything in this godforsaken country you are supporting that rear end in a top hat.
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Jan 5, 2018 18:24
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Andrast posted:Manga is also the product of a single writer so you kind of know what you are going to get for the whole thing. Yeah, if I'm buying capes comics these days, I'm buying almost entirely based on "I know this writer and they're good."
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Jan 5, 2018 18:43
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WampaLord posted:Not sure if the thread has discussed Pop Culture Detective before, but I stumbled onto his channel and he's really good. He has a couple videos tearing down The Big Bang Theory for being crazy sexist that were really excellent: I just got this channel’s latest as a recommended video. I wonder if he’s paying for promotion or if the algorithm’s getting better at figuring out what I’d actually like to watch. They’re well-reasoned videos with unique presentation. They remind me a lot of the longer Feminist Frequency videos in visual style and tone, and make me wonder if Anita Sarkeesian would have gotten any poo poo if she were a man (no).
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Jan 5, 2018 18:56
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business hammocks posted:I just got this channel’s latest as a recommended video. I wonder if he’s paying for promotion or if the algorithm’s getting better at figuring out what I’d actually like to watch. They’re well-reasoned videos with unique presentation. They remind me a lot of the longer Feminist Frequency videos in visual style and tone, and make me wonder if Anita Sarkeesian would have gotten any poo poo if she were a man (no). You're totally right, but I think part of it is the target, too. Picking on Big Bang Theory in particular is a great way to get nerds who hate that show to watch the video and maybe actually come away with a bit of awareness.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:01
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WampaLord posted:You're totally right, but I think part of it is the target, too. Picking on Big Bang Theory in particular is a great way to get nerds who hate that show to watch the video and maybe actually come away with a bit of awareness. That’s true, and really clever. The one on my recommendations was about the Star Wars prequels and how Jedi philosophy is dumb and incoherent (because it’s a version of toxic masculinity). It’s a very slick strategy.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:12
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business hammocks posted:I just got this channel’s latest as a recommended video. I wonder if he’s paying for promotion or if the algorithm’s getting better at figuring out what I’d actually like to watch. They’re well-reasoned videos with unique presentation. They remind me a lot of the longer Feminist Frequency videos in visual style and tone, and make me wonder if Anita Sarkeesian would have gotten any poo poo if she were a man (no). Oh, she would've gotten poo poo, absolutely. Just probably not the level of poo poo she got/is still getting.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:19
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I dunno about the guy not getting any poo poo because he's a man, that's Jonathan McIntosh and he most certainly gets quite a lot of poo poo - like, he's virtually a meme. The videos are very similar in style and preparation to Feminist Frequency stuff because he was a producer and co-writer on a big chunk of Tropes vs Women in Video Games - hell, I'd go as far to say that you can pinpoint the exact moment when those videos got much less stuffy, didactic and rigid and Anita Sarkeesian's presenting style infinitely more personable to the time when he departed from the project. I would also posit that his influence on the project was the reason (and stuff he used to spout on FemFreq's twitter account making everyone think it was Anita's words and so forth) was one of the big reasons why there was tons of poo poo to start off with. As you might have guessed I'm not a fan at all, I find the guy puritanical to the point of parody, he spouts views on Twitter that would make Joe Lieberman wince, his whole style is offensive to me and the fact that he now has 227,000 subscribers has quite frankly depressed me to the point where I'm considering lonely drunken stupor as my mode for the evening. But enough of that, there's better examples. Liana K's work on the Lady Bits series is very good indeed right now as far as feminist critiques of media goes. Or Lindsay whenever she broaches the subject or quite frankly anyone except Jonathan bloody McIntosh, screw that guy. EDIT: Going back to a previous subject...you think that Logan Paul's time in Japan before being a hypebeast around a dead body was full of respect for the culture and spiritual fulfillment? You would be. of course, wrong. https://twitter.com/wetheunicorns/status/949297972986163200 I'm reminded of this Onion classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7c_OMWp21g Kim Justice fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Jan 5, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 19:28
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You don't have to actually read every single comic featuring Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men, Deadpool, and Black Lightning to enjoy superhero comics.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:39
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Andrast posted:Manga is also the product of a single writer so you kind of know what you are going to get for the whole thing. Oh yeah, that certainly helps a ton. And there's also the fact that there's tons of websites around if you wanna read a thing. cosmically_cosmic posted:I too enjoyed the great Manga, 'The Story of Spike Seigal', all 26 episodes of said manga. Oh sorry sweetheart, I didn't mean to confuse you by referring to a character and an anime. Let me fix that. If you wanted to binge through Fullmetal Alchemist that might take you maybe a week and a half, depending on how much free time you have, since it's about a 108 chapters. Which is much easier to read through in a lifetime compared to Superman's near 80 years of comics. Roth posted:You don't have to actually read every single comic featuring Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men, Deadpool, and Black Lightning to enjoy superhero comics. True, but it's certainly easy to fall down a whole trying to get context for why any event is happening when they mention different events while you're in the middle of reading one.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:52
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Kunster posted:Type advice while people who grew up making Sonic OCs and Inuyasha fanfiction do circles around them writing Shoujo/Shouen type webcomics on the most hyper specific poo poo they always wanted to do. It's why that Vice 2017 10 comics to read thing got so much poo poo! This is not hyperbole and cannot be emphasized enough. Marvel and DC are almost there by inertia. Just reading sentence I immediately thought of IanJQ and Rebecca Sugar. Heck plenty of webcomic artists and writers will do some work at Marvel or DC almost as a victory lap before going back to doing their own stuff.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:56
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Kim Justice posted:EDIT: Going back to a previous subject...you think that Logan Paul's time in Japan before being a hypebeast around a dead body was full of respect for the culture and spiritual fulfillment? You would be. of course, wrong. Holy poo poo what an rear end in a top hat. These are the people kids are looking up to these days? Even that moron Tom Green or the Jackass guys didn't get this bad.
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Jan 5, 2018 20:01
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Roth posted:You don't have to actually read every single comic featuring Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men, Deadpool, and Black Lightning to enjoy superhero comics. Technically true, but the way Melarvel and DC Handel big events they make it you have to buy other characters books to understand why the ones you follow now have to all wear eyepatches or whatever.
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Jan 5, 2018 20:31
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BigRed0427 posted:Technically true, but the way Melarvel and DC Handel big events they make it you have to buy other characters books to understand why the ones you follow now have to all wear eyepatches or whatever. The constant barrage events I could not care less about was definitely one of the reasons I fell of off reading the few Marvel/DC comics I followed
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Jan 5, 2018 20:33
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