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orange juche
Mar 14, 2012




Huh, so Microsoft hosed up and ate a bunch of legit files and flagged them as trojans? Way to go lmao.

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Lunchmeat Larry
Nov 3, 2012

this is probably my favourite bit of writing about the thieves guild because it goes into the minutae of what makes it amazingly hilariously retarded in every single scene

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Lima posted:

In my headcanon Serana uses her vampiric mind magicks on the DB the moment she's freed. Nothing in the plot makes sense otherwise :v:

I just assumed she pushed her chest out and her cleavage window did the rest.

Halser
Aug 24, 2016

Orange Crush Rush posted:

*Be TLD, a Mighty Vampire Hunter that swore many oaths to destroy any Vampire he/she comes across*
*Some Vampire Princess with a god damned ELDER SCROLL falls into his/her lap, more or less defenseless*
*go ahead and follow her to the heart of the Vampire scourge in Skyrim and listen to whatever she says, does nothing when she hands said Elder Scroll over to her insane dad who openly admits to wanting to end the world*

I just find it really weird in general that in a game with such simplistic quests you couldn't just do the thing where if you murder a dude he has a note on his body that gives you the info to progress the quest.

If you're Dawnguard you immediately know that the objective at the end is to burn the poo poo out of Castle Volkihar, so why not just allow you to do it immediately?

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

Halser posted:

I just find it really weird in general that in a game with such simplistic quests you couldn't just do the thing where if you murder a dude he has a note on his body that gives you the info to progress the quest.
If you're Dawnguard you immediately know that the objective at the end is to burn the poo poo out of Castle Volkihar, so why not just allow you to do it immediately?
Because the writers have a story tell, dammit!

The weirdest thing about the quests in Bethesda games to me is that their basic quest system allows for quite a lot of freedom. Especially with the Alias system Skyrim introduced. You can easily make branching paths, have failure states, handle a quest-giver dying, etc.
And yet the quest designers pretty much never utilize this.

Bitter fly
Sep 25, 2015

by FactsAreUseless
I'm trying to apply the Lord's Mail enchantment to an item based off of the Aetherial Crown. The only problem is the Lord's Mail .esl crashes the creation kit when I try monkeying around with it. Anyone know a way to get access to the enchantment?

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

Bitter fly posted:

I'm trying to apply the Lord's Mail enchantment to an item based off of the Aetherial Crown. The only problem is the Lord's Mail .esl crashes the creation kit when I try monkeying around with it. Anyone know a way to get access to the enchantment?
You can try using SSEEdit to copy the enchantment.
Also looking at one of the wikis, that enchantment is just Magic resistance & poinson/disease immunity? You can easily make a new enchantment that does that.

GunnerJ
Aug 1, 2005

Do you think this is funny?

Lunchmeat Larry posted:

this is probably my favourite bit of writing about the thieves guild because it goes into the minutae of what makes it amazingly hilariously retarded in every single scene

This is pretty good but, although it's been a looooong while since I did this quest, I suspect it's missing a few critical bits because:

quote:

Then at the end of the dungeon, I enter the final chamber and suddenly fall over. Karliah has hit me with a paralysis arrow which will never exist or be mentioned again in the gameworld, despite the fact that it would be the Most Useful Thing Ever.

I distinctly remember Karliah telling me later how she had to, like, harvest frog sweat for 15 years or some poo poo just to make one. Say what you want about that premise, it's not like the paralysis dart goes unexplained.

eta: OK, so this is mentioned in the next bit, so I am not sure why the author is saying that the "paralysis arrow will never be mentioned again" because it is...?

GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Jan 5, 2018

XTimmy
Nov 28, 2007
I am Jacks self hatred
Anything I should be particularly aware of if I decide to use Skyrim SE versus original Skyrim? Was thinking of reinstalling with SPERG and some extra armour/weapon packs but if it's not going to work with SE I'll reinstalling vanilla.

Lunchmeat Larry
Nov 3, 2012

I assume by "in the gameworld" he means it's never so much as hinted at existing outside this one incident/scenario which is extremely stupid

GunnerJ
Aug 1, 2005

Do you think this is funny?

Lunchmeat Larry posted:

I assume by "in the gameworld" he means it's never so much as hinted at existing outside this one incident/scenario which is extremely stupid

OK, that makes more sense. And my memory seems to have inflated the length of the process to something that would make it more plausibly super rare. :v:

It's interesting reading this because I never really thought about how little actual stealing the Thieves' Guild gets up to, guess I had read them as more like "basically the mafia" instead based on their activities.

eta:

quote:

Calcelmo the mage spent years studying that engraving in order to unravel the Falmer tongue. I don’t know why.

As a former grad student I don't see what's implausible about this!

GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Jan 5, 2018

Philippe
Aug 9, 2013

(she/her)

Especially for a guy who's obsessed with the Dwemer! Being able to read the language of their slaves would be incredibly useful to learn about their culture.

GunnerJ
Aug 1, 2005

Do you think this is funny?
OK, this is weird:

quote:

So then we have this stupid ceremony where we all pledge our eternal souls to Noctural, who manifests as a glowing orb of light with an agonizingly smug voice that makes you want to throttle her disembodied neck.

I definitely remember Nocturnal showing up as some lady in a spooky robe.

eta: Whoops, that's later!

GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Jan 5, 2018

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X

GunnerJ posted:

This is pretty good but, although it's been a looooong while since I did this quest, I suspect it's missing a few critical bits because:


I distinctly remember Karliah telling me later how she had to, like, harvest frog sweat for 15 years or some poo poo just to make one. Say what you want about that premise, it's not like the paralysis dart goes unexplained.

OK, let's run with that: so why they hell didn't she use it on Mercer instead of the random guy she's never seen before? OK, maybe she thought she was shooting Mercer, it was shadowy and she shot the first thing that moved. Except she explicitly says she saw both of you and chose to shoot the random guy she's never seen before with the arrow she spent 15 years making.

I really really wanted to like Karliah because I've had a super crush on Moira Quirk for 25 years ever since GUTS. But holy poo poo did they waste her on a spectacular idiot of a character. She's the Qui-Gon of the Thieves' Guild: you're supposed to follow along and root for her and not think about it, because if you do start to think about it you quickly realize that almost everything she does is so spectacularly stupid that your brain wants to crawl out your ears.

GunnerJ
Aug 1, 2005

Do you think this is funny?

Eric the Mauve posted:

OK, let's run with that: so why they hell didn't she use it on Mercer instead of the random guy she's never seen before? OK, maybe she thought she was shooting Mercer, it was shadowy and she shot the first thing that moved. Except she explicitly says she saw both of you and chose to shoot the random guy she's never seen before with the arrow she spent 15 years making.

Yeah that's one of the post's better criticisms because there was just a way simpler way of handling it: didn't expect Mercer to bring backup/a decoy, shot you by accident.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X

GunnerJ posted:

Yeah that's one of the post's better criticisms because there was just a way simpler way of handling it: didn't expect Mercer to bring backup/a decoy, shot you by accident.

True but then that's just another example of Karliah being an idiot: she's had decades to plan this whole thing, she knows Mercer is an extremely clever bastard (or so the writers demand we believe, anyway), why the hell wouldn't she expect it's at least entirely possible he'll expect a trap and bring a sucker or two with him? Her whole plan was built around making sure he KNOWS it's her waiting to kill him in there. So. Stupid.

Gonkish
May 19, 2004

Raygereio posted:

Because the writers have a story tell, dammit!

The weirdest thing about the quests in Bethesda games to me is that their basic quest system allows for quite a lot of freedom. Especially with the Alias system Skyrim introduced. You can easily make branching paths, have failure states, handle a quest-giver dying, etc.
And yet the quest designers pretty much never utilize this.

Because Bethesda's writing has been poo poo since Oblivion. Obsidian actually utilized similar things in New Vegas, but Bethesda is far more concerned with forcing you down a specific path so that they don't have to do things that involve improving their storytelling.

Fallout 4 is the epitome of Bethesda's writing woes. How many quests are there where you're given your four dialogue "choices" where three of them are basic variations of "yes, I will do this thing" and the fourth is "I will do this thing later"? Practically all of them? They can do interesting quests with branching paths and such, but they don't want to.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

Gonkish posted:

Fallout 4 is the epitome of Bethesda's writing woes.
If you follow FO4's Institute questline, they want you to destroy Brotherhood of Steel's Liberty Prime at some point. The quest giving NPC asks you if you know what Liberty Prime is. And one dialogue option is "Don't need details". Which i picked since I played FO3 and know about Liberty Prime. The NPC then scolded me for picking that option and proceeded to give me Liberty Prime's history from FO3.
I rage quit the game at that exact point.

Here's an awkward confession: The writing for Skyrim's Thieves Guild is awful. It's poo poo. But, I still do it every time because the Nightingale Armour appeals to my inner ninja obsessed 12 year old. The Dawnguard questline makes no sense. But I still do it, because I kind of like Serana. I'm honestly not even sure why. Maybe it's the voice. Laura Bailey is pleasant to listen to.
And yet, every time I think "Okay, why not install FO4. Mod the poo poo out of it and actually finish it", I remember that NPC scolding me for picking the wrong dialogue option and I just go play something else instead. What I saying is, gently caress FO4. There's nothing redeemable about that game.

EPIC fat guy vids
Feb 3, 2011

squeak... squeak... SQUEAK!
Lipstick Apathy

Raygereio posted:



Here's an awkward confession: The writing for Skyrim's Thieves Guild is awful. It's poo poo. But, I still do it every time because the Nightingale Armour appeals to my inner ninja obsessed 12 year old. The Dawnguard questline makes no sense. But I still do it, because I kind of like Serana. I'm honestly not even sure why. Maybe it's the voice. Laura Bailey is pleasant to listen to.
And yet, every time I think "Okay, why not install FO4. Mod the poo poo out of it and actually finish it", I remember that NPC scolding me for picking the wrong dialogue option and I just go play something else instead. What I saying is, gently caress FO4. There's nothing redeemable about that game.

FO4 I usually mod a lot, binge on the settlement stuff/explore and snipe dudes and then quit shortly after I start the MSQ.

Almost every single quest chain is only radiant quests. Very rarely will you get something story-driven without the "kill x of y" being involved.

At least skyrim has some interesting quest chains - even if most basically make you leader of a faction in about 5 days if you don't fast travel.

EPIC fat guy vids fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Jan 5, 2018

SolidSnakesBandana
Jul 1, 2007

Infinite ammo

Raygereio posted:

What I saying is, gently caress FO4. There's nothing redeemable about that game.

That's not true, it has very good graphics.

OAquinas
Jan 27, 2008

Biden has sat immobile on the Iron Throne of America. He is the Master of Malarkey by the will of the gods, and master of a million votes by the might of his inexhaustible calamari.

SolidSnakesBandana posted:

That's not true, it has very good graphics.

It's still using gamebryo, which at this point is more accurately an octogamearian. I look at it and there just isn't much difference between it and FO3/NV--which were released over half a decade prior.

SolidSnakesBandana
Jul 1, 2007

Infinite ammo
One look at Dogmeat and its obvious how much better the graphics are. At least give it credit for that.

OAquinas
Jan 27, 2008

Biden has sat immobile on the Iron Throne of America. He is the Master of Malarkey by the will of the gods, and master of a million votes by the might of his inexhaustible calamari.

SolidSnakesBandana posted:

One look at Dogmeat and its obvious how much better the graphics are. At least give it credit for that.

Some aspects are better, true. But it's like putting a carbon fiber hood and a racing stripe on a Yaris.

MadJackMcJack
Jun 10, 2009

Raygereio posted:

What I saying is, gently caress FO4. There's nothing redeemable about that game.

That's the sort of thing a synth would say :colbert:

Yea, the writing wasn't fantastic, but I still enjoyed the hell out of it.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

SolidSnakesBandana posted:

That's not true, it has very good graphics.
After FO3, I will give Bethesda's art department credit for realizing they can use more then one colour at a time.

OAquinas posted:

It's still using gamebryo, which at this point is more accurately an octogamearian. I look at it and there just isn't much difference between it and FO3/NV--which were released over half a decade prior.
Gamebryo isn't the problem. It isn't even really accurate to call it Gamebryo since the actual Gamebryo that you can license is basically a graphics renderer and whole bunch of middleware. And Bethesda completely overhauled the graphics renderer part of their codebase for Skyrim and again for FO4 to the point where it basically isn't using the Gamebryo graphics renderer. There's a reason it's called the Creation Engine nowadays.
Secondly, there's absolutely nothing wrong with reusing code. Saying FO4 sucks because you can trace the codebase back to Morrowind is like saying the reason Mass Effect 3 sucked is because you can trace the Unreal Engine's codebase back to 1998.

As is usually the case, the tools aren't problem. It's the people using them. While FO4 isn't a graphical beast that will melt your GPU, the engine is capable of producing nice pictures. The main problem FO4's graphics though, is the shoddy texturework all over the place. And no graphics renderer can composite for that.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Jan 5, 2018

Tyty
Feb 20, 2012

Night-vision Goggles Equipped!


What surprises me the most wrt the questlines is how few mods there are to improve them. I went in to dawnguard mostly blind, and went with the vampires because I wanted the stat ring. I don't normally get into playing a specific character beyond a build but gently caress, those vampires are so cartoonishly evil i just felt really out of place... and I'm stuck wondering why there isn't an option after accepting the powers to just get cured and go back to the dawnguard. I didn't see a mod to really improve that set of quests either, but I might just have not looked hard enough, or no one cares.

i am tim!
Jan 5, 2005

God damn it, where are my ant keys?! I'm gonna miss my flight!
I can enjoy FO4 in the way that people tell me they enjoy FO3; by just faffing about doing whatever seems entertaining. I’ve beaten the MSQ from two different angles to see the difference and there’s practically nothing changed aside from who’ with you when you take out X or Y other factions. It’s terrible.

But they did improve the gunplay enough to enjoy and even the limited modding and customization options for weapons and armour gave me something to work towards. Building towns is a neat idea, especially with Fallout where rebuilding can be a great plot theme. They barely touch on that, of course, and I got bored of building trash towers after a week. There’s some great mods to flesh that out though, but I haven’t been compelled to reinstall and try them out.

I feel like I could eventually enjoy a modded out FO4 as a generic wasteland adventure game, but the fact that I already own it goes a long way towards justifying that for me. Don’t buy it New, it’s trash.

Crumbletron
Jul 21, 2006



IT'S YOUR BOY JESUS, MANE
My big beef with modding FO4 is that other than the MQ and a few standout quests that make up the same "top 5 questlines in Fallout 4" lists everywhere, I never feel like there's anything to do. That wasn't a problem with the other ones or even Skyrim. In Skyrim you can't walk into any town without someone bumping into you with an issue to fix.

Gonkish
May 19, 2004

Fallout 4 definitely suffers from the "everything exists to be a shooting gallery" problem. Skyrim didn't have that as much (in that it at least had dungeons and quests that weren't simple "go here to kill thing, return" as is so prominent in FO4), and had dungeons that were interesting. I think part of Fallout's issue is that the setting only realistically allows for so much variation, which, when combined with Bethesda's lovely writing, leads to a lot of bland, forgettable poo poo.

There are exceptions, of course. Nuka World tried to break the mold with a gimmick, and it worked for the most part. Far Harbor did a great variation on the formula, as well. I think Falllout is just more limiting for Bethesda than a fantasy setting, because at least in a fantasy setting the level design can compensate for lovely writing.

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

Tyty posted:

What surprises me the most wrt the questlines is how few mods there are to improve them.

Voices. Changing an existing questline is much harder than just creating a new one. It's difficult enough to have non-cringy voice acting for your original character, but giving new lines to a Bethesda character without them feeling out of place is a major challenge.

This is why most 'quest fix' mods just give you an option to say, essentially, 'screw this quest'.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X
If you've never experienced the once in a lifetime experience of listening to the voice acting in Vilja's custom storyline, you should

Just make sure you have something handy to wipe up the blood that will be pouring out of your ears

Cat Mattress
Jul 14, 2012

by Cyrano4747

Lizard Wizard posted:

Can you elaborate in a way that doesn't require me to watch a playthrough of the media I might want to consume?

The mod starting with every NPC commenting about how sexy this young Khajiit is.
One of the "canon ending" being about making her your slave. (Keeping in mind that slavery does not exist in Skyrim.)
The dumb and schlocky explanation for why she doesn't look like other Khajiit. (No, it's not that she's an Ohmes-Raht.)


Eric the Mauve posted:

If you've never experienced the once in a lifetime experience of listening to the voice acting in Vilja's custom storyline, you should

Just make sure you have something handy to wipe up the blood that will be pouring out of your ears

Emma is an adorable modding grandma and I can't dislike her stuff because of that. Just think of Vilja's voice-acting as the ugly Christmas sweater she knitted for you.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused
Not being able to make my own character really drags me down in Fallout 4. I didn't think it would bug me so much at first but its really hard to roleplay when you are given a defined background, defined voice, and even defined motivations (my boyyyyyyyy). I tolerate the usual terrible Bethesda writing because I can at least pretend to be a unique character, even if their dialogue options don't allow many ways to express that. I just couldn't do that in Fallout 4.

Also I feel like they simplified leveling up way too much.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X

Cat Mattress posted:

Emma is an adorable modding grandma and I can't dislike her stuff because of that. Just think of Vilja's voice-acting as the ugly Christmas sweater she knitted for you.

No the voice acting of Vilja herself is fine--actually better than just about any other follower mod except maybe Inigo. It's the voice acting of all the minor characters along the story that is... uh... well... you really just have to hear it for yourself or you won't believe me.

funkymonks
Aug 31, 2004

Pillbug
I found some instructions on porting RaceMenu to SSE and gave it a shot and it works pretty well. Most importantly, you can load presets in (by going to presents and hitting f9) and import presets from Oldrim. Here is a link. I left the files as loose instead of putting them back in a BSA in case the scripts get updated. Here is the post from the original RaceMenu mod page if anyone is curious:

quote:

SSE Update
Most features have already been ported successfully, the features still missing are Overlays, Bodygen, Sculpting, and Import/Export. However presets will still load with sculpt data and should technically function.

The alpha has not been officially released because I have not gated any of the features that do not work and I don't want to be dealing with complaints regarding those features.

However if you are still determined to try the alpha:
https://github.com/expired6978/SKSE64Plugins/releases
This alpha does not include the base mod, this only includes the SKSE64 plugin which drives most of the features.

And here is the link to the working version.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1P3XQ6X_ujB4_ZrwoC5VpIJ-j1bVjYWRi

Bob NewSCART
Feb 1, 2012

Outstanding afternoon. "I've often said there's nothing better for the inside of a man than the outside of a horse."

Is it cool as far as the thread goes for me to post/ask about random rear end mods I’ve found that sound cool but am worried about them being total garbage/breaking the gently caress out of my game?

I’ve found a few like the vampire and werewolf overhauls, a poo poo load of weather mods and lighting mods that I can’t make heads or tails of, and some miscellaneous stuff that I’ll link if that’s not frowned upon

GunnerJ
Aug 1, 2005

Do you think this is funny?

Bob NewSCART posted:

Is it cool as far as the thread goes for me to post/ask about random rear end mods I’ve found that sound cool but am worried about them being total garbage/breaking the gently caress out of my game?

Absolutely!

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused
SPERG along with Apocalypse spells has made this game so much more fun. I'm actually really enjoying the combat now as I have a lot of options to work with. Pickpocket is basically the unarmed combat skill now so I can do real damage with my bare fists and see those sweet killcams.

DisDisDis
Dec 22, 2013
Decided to reinstall this hell game. Everything else about Requiem sounds great to me but the perks seem boring compared to the other options. Are there any other mods that replace the leveled mobs with static leveld stuff without touching perks? (Like morrowloot does for loot.) Also any mods to look out for that enhance the being a random shmuck part of the game, like owning a farm for example?

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Agents are GO!
Dec 29, 2004

Bob NewSCART posted:

Is it cool as far as the thread goes for me to post/ask about random rear end mods I’ve found that sound cool but am worried about them being total garbage/breaking the gently caress out of my game?

I’ve found a few like the vampire and werewolf overhauls, a poo poo load of weather mods and lighting mods that I can’t make heads or tails of, and some miscellaneous stuff that I’ll link if that’s not frowned upon

Absolutely, seconding this. Also, of even more concern, if you try one that hasn't been posted about before, let us know what you thought of it.

GunnerJ: I'll see about doing some work on an "Getting Started with SE" post this weekend (Sunday-Monday.) Any luck finding those pastebins? If all else fails, just go "Edit Post" on the OP and then C+P to a txt file.

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