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drgitlin posted:Alex Roy (who is one of the smarter people covering this space, particularly autonomous driving) has posted his Model 3 review. Sounds like the Autopilot implementation is a total fuckup: http://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/17280/tesla-model-3-the-first-serious-review I think his conclusions are all fair, but he is way too forgiving in the single centered screen limitation. Having that secondary screen behind the wheel would be the real solution to his awareness gripe, but he skips over that in favor of reasonable bandaids on top of the center screen.
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Jan 6, 2018 00:23
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kimbo305 posted:I think his conclusions are all fair, but he is way too forgiving in the single centered screen limitation. Having that secondary screen behind the wheel would be the real solution to his awareness gripe, but he skips over that in favor of reasonable bandaids on top of the center screen. I think he was trying to give workarounds that are achievable without additional/different hardware. He mentions clearly that he prefers and feels that the center display is safer compared to what is in the three.
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Jan 6, 2018 00:50
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I think overall he is inconsistent with his assessment. He esteems a simple touch screen UI, but then includes screenshots of how horrible the distance setting dialog is. Granted, that's in the negative section about Autopilot, but even the HVAC setup seems too have controls that are too small and aren't fat fingerable. I wonder if they're easier to peck at when 90% of your drive is cruising on the highway. Which should be legitimately easier with the autopilot going.
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Jan 6, 2018 00:56
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drgitlin posted:Having driven both, that statement of his is one of the dumber things I’ve read this week. Neither of them is a compliance car ffs. drgitlin posted:Alex Roy (who is one of the smarter people covering this space, particularly autonomous driving) has posted his Model 3 review. Sounds like the Autopilot implementation is a total fuckup: http://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/17280/tesla-model-3-the-first-serious-review I've personally driven none of them, but I read lots of reviews. The Bolt is a very good effort, but it has huge flaws in the charging speed and only-vehicle range options. The Leaf is getting into the long range field next year, but suffers from very similar and even more extreme limitations. Turd may be a little strong, obviously.
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Jan 6, 2018 00:59
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The Bolt is actually a lot of fun to drive, IMO. The Leaf isn’t really engaging but you do get a lot of equipment in it, and it’s L2 semiautonomous stuff is very good at being very clear when the system is active and when it isn’t, which even Tesla and Volvo aren’t doing properly.
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Jan 6, 2018 01:05
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https://www.treehugger.com/cars/buyers-new-nissan-leaf-japan-can-get-free-solar-array.html Buyers of the 2018 Nissan LEAF in some areas of Japan will have the option of putting solar to work at home in order to power their house and charge their new electric car, and to do so without having to take out a big loan to pay for it. A partnership between Nissan Motor Co., Ltd. and Ecosystem Japan which aims to promote the use of clean energy to fuel the LEAF is offering new owners the option to get free installation of a home solar array, as well as a discount on an electricity plan called the "Daytime Assist Plan," and can end up owning the solar array after the end of the 20-year contract.
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Jan 6, 2018 01:33
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For me The Wirecutter comes to mind, where they have referral links for almost everything they review but that's because literally almost every consumer product these days has some kind of referral link available. What I'm saying is, obviously, that if we could buy cars from Amazon it wouldn't be a problem.
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Jan 6, 2018 01:42
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quote:I loved the Tesla Model 3, a fantastic and unique milestone in the history of passenger cars. For those who want to own a piece of tomorrow, today, there is nothing else currently on the market. I would happily own one, if only I didn't live in New York City, and also the Autopilot UI was updated. I think it's a bargain even at $55,000, because it's far more than a car. It's a work of art, a concept car come to life, more revelatory than the Model S, and historically even more important. We're not even past the first week of 2018, and I already have my contender for "overstatement of the year" right here.
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Jan 6, 2018 02:44
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Tell me more about this car of tomorrow, today. Tesla has really effectively employed the strategy of rewarding zealots with access and aggressively slamming/setting the Elon fanbois on anyone who writes a less than stellar review.
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Jan 6, 2018 03:01
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The new Model 3 reviews make me lust for ownership more, while at the same time convincing me that I'll never buy one due to the center screen flaw. I know that makes no sense but I'm being pulled in opposite directions which means 'don't spend money'.
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Jan 6, 2018 03:04
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Rented a Bolt for a week and loved it. 4.5mi/kwh without trying for driving style efficiency and just having fun. The temperature hardly needed any climate controls so that helped a lot, but the A/C at least didn't use much power and the heated seats barely draw anything. I can definitely see how actual cold weather would pull a lot of energy just on defrost, but overall I don't know what the hell people are doing to ever claim sub-200 range in California conditions. We used EvGo DC chargers twice without issue, though they only topped out at 44kw for 0-60% charge. I was surprised the car didn't seem to do any pack cooling, or at least it was drowned out by the loud fans on the charger boxes. Overall, great car, would buy if in a CCS-dense area, but I'd rather wait for a 3 for the Superchargers. (Also saw a 3 in person, drat it's a lot sexier...)
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Jan 6, 2018 03:19
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So weird thing, got my order in for the car yesterday morning and by last night we had a vin. So here's hoping we have it in less than 4 weeks.
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Jan 6, 2018 03:38
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Agronox posted:Thanks! And if it isn’t a pain, could you let us know your thoughts on the touchscreen after a few weeks, as far as how easy/difficult it is to adapt to? It’s pretty great! There’s definitely a lot to say about the screen since it’s a defining part of the user experience, but I’ll say a couple points. The screen was definitely my biggest concern going in. Drive information being moved to the center screen, and losing hardware control over media and HVAC. Timeline wise: I got used to the drive information (speed, battery charge, autopilot sensors, etc.) being on the left side of the screen sometime during my first drive. Basically no time at all, which is less than I thought I’d need. Got comfortable with changing music and HVAC (on the bottom bar of the screen) while driving about 3-4 days in. For music, the left steering wheel “scroll ball” also typically does volume/play/skip. Downside: The one thing I’m not sure if I’m used to yet is actually the turn signal indicator light. The turn signal stalk can be pushed hard or soft but doesn’t lock in position and returns to center. (Hope I’m explaining it well, It’s actually super intuitive.) BUT because my fingers don’t notice an out-of-position stalk, and the clicking noise is actually pretty soft, it is possible for it to take longer for me to notice I accidentally have a turn signal on. Then, because both the left and right arrows on the GUI are physically to the right of my body, it takes a tenth-of-a-second longer for me to see which way I’m signaling. Thoughts on the screen itself: Hardware wise the screen is pretty solid. No give when pushing on the screen. I don’t feel the need for a screen protector. No issues with fingerprints; you can definitely see them from certain weird angles but not from normal head positions. Haven’t wanted or needed to wipe down the screen yet but should be pretty easy. Haven’t noticed any glare yet. Not sure if it’s me being lucky or good design. Hopefully it’s the latter as it would only take a little bit of glare to sour a driver. Responsiveness is super good. More responsive than an iPhone or iPad. I’m very impressed. As an example, early on I took a few hundred mile road trip. I originally wanted to keep using my phone or my smart watch to do navigation due to familiarity, but the car’s map usability and speed (zooming in and out, rotating, time needed to actually generate the instructions, etc.) was just way better than my phone.
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Jan 6, 2018 04:13
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Hackjack posted:It’s pretty great! Very cool. Glad to hear you are liking it. Funny how the informative posts in this thread never garner many comments.
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Jan 6, 2018 19:38
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drgitlin posted:Alex Roy (who is one of the smarter people covering this space, particularly autonomous driving) has posted his Model 3 review. Sounds like the Autopilot implementation is a total fuckup: http://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/17280/tesla-model-3-the-first-serious-review pros: great scandanavian design! cons: the screen i'm supposed to look at while the car is driving itself is barely in my peripheral vision and i have to navigate through menus to adjust the follow distance  also like the others i'm a little annoyed with his "ask the idiots who don't care about cars! and the women who i'm grouping in with the idiots!" line of thought. it's a perfectly serviceable car, sure, but his whole value proposition is skewed towards what he wants out of one. he dismissed acceleration but praised the handling over the model s, spent a paragraph raving about the stereo yet buried the fact that he couldn't get the rfid card to work in the cold, and spent half the article trying to steer the reader around to the idea that the lcd monument to swedish minimal design was actually the best thing since sliced bread despite numerous complaints from him in the same article. even his line about saving money driving from coast to coast rang hollow when his experience included sleeping in his car and going to the bathroom outside. do you spend 55k on a new car to do that? and if it's 20+ hours slower in a tesla then do people really commit to that or do they just pony up for a room for the night?
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Jan 6, 2018 20:01
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FistEnergy posted:The new Model 3 reviews make me lust for ownership more, while at the same time convincing me that I'll never buy one due to the center screen flaw. I know that makes no sense but I'm being pulled in opposite directions which means 'don't spend money'. For me it's exactly the same thing. The rest of the car is real nice, but I don't think I could ever be not annoyed as hell by just the center screen.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:36
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But it's the future! lean forward into the future with the futuristic touchscreen and autopilot, and not into the past with archaic compliance cars and their "buttons" and "cruise control"
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Jan 6, 2018 21:15
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Powershift posted:But it's the future! lean forward into the future with the futuristic touchscreen and autopilot, and not into the past with archaic compliance cars and their "buttons" and "cruise control" More like lean right
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Jan 6, 2018 21:19
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KakerMix posted:More like lean right The EV electrothread: Lean right into the future.
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Jan 6, 2018 22:45
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VideoGameVet posted:A partnership between Nissan Motor Co., Ltd. and Ecosystem Japan which aims to promote the use of clean energy to fuel the LEAF is offering new owners the option to get free installation of a home solar array, as well as a discount on an electricity plan called the "Daytime Assist Plan," and can end up owning the solar array after the end of the 20-year contract. This sounds familiar. Aren't there already companies in North America that will do that (unaffiliated with vehicle manufacturers)?
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Jan 8, 2018 18:15
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NathanScottPhillips posted:30k BMW i3s sold in the US have to be recalled due to a snafu in crash testing for short women under 110lbs not wearing a seatbelt. Does this mean sweet deals on i3s or will they not be allowed to be resold? Just bought one, it's a software update. From what I can tell the i3 is already a pretty sweet deal if you can deal with the range.
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Jan 8, 2018 18:21
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So the Workhorse plugin hybrid pickup truck is open for reservations ($1k for a $52k estimated purchase price, and they claim purchasers will be able to get a $7.5k tax credit). Any opinions on this thing? I like the idea of a rugged vehicle with lots of storage and decent (claimed 80-mile) all-electric range, and the ability to act like a mobile generator is cute, if perhaps not very relevant to most consumers -- it's targeted primarily at contractors.
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Jan 8, 2018 18:55
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:So the Workhorse plugin hybrid pickup truck is open for reservations ($1k for a $52k estimated purchase price, and they claim purchasers will be able to get a $7.5k tax credit). Any opinions on this thing? I like the idea of a rugged vehicle with lots of storage and decent (claimed 80-mile) all-electric range, and the ability to act like a mobile generator is cute, if perhaps not very relevant to most consumers -- it's targeted primarily at contractors. That link has a bad SSL for some reason when I hit it.
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Jan 8, 2018 19:01
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SpaceCadetBob posted:That link has a bad SSL for some reason when I hit it. Huh, I guess they haven't enabled HTTPS. Somethingawful automatically converts outgoing links to HTTPS, so, try changing the URL. 
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Jan 8, 2018 19:09
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:So the Workhorse plugin hybrid pickup truck is open for reservations ($1k for a $52k estimated purchase price, and they claim purchasers will be able to get a $7.5k tax credit). Any opinions on this thing? I like the idea of a rugged vehicle with lots of storage and decent (claimed 80-mile) all-electric range, and the ability to act like a mobile generator is cute, if perhaps not very relevant to most consumers -- it's targeted primarily at contractors. I would wait until they have a real truck to show. I can't imagine Chevy is going to give them cabs so they can put their own interior and frame around it. They have experience electrifying vehicles, but building a production passenger vehicle is going to be a whole different thing entirely. The hybrid F-150 is supposed to be out for 2020, as well, and ford is definitely going to be around long enough to support those.
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Jan 8, 2018 19:40
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Hackjack posted:It’s pretty great! Thank you for the writeup, and glad you like the car! I look forward to sitting in one, or even better giving it a drive one of these days...
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Jan 9, 2018 02:51
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Huh, I guess they haven't enabled HTTPS. Somethingawful automatically converts outgoing links to HTTPS, so, try changing the URL. They're on a shared host that has something hosed up. The SSL cert they're delivering is for aysensenderospatagonia.com
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Jan 9, 2018 06:19
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My Tesla salesperson emailed to remind me that Model S’s are available. I responded that I’m unwilling to spend that much on a car, but that I’ve essentially got a fist full of dirty 100s waiting for papa Elon to send a trainload of 3s to Florida. She was only moderately amused.
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Jan 9, 2018 13:38
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drgitlin posted:Alex Roy (who is one of the smarter people covering this space, particularly autonomous driving) has posted his Model 3 review. Sounds like the Autopilot implementation is a total fuckup: http://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/17280/tesla-model-3-the-first-serious-review His main criticism is essentially what Elon Musk claimed in response to criticism over the lack of a traditional instrument panel - the car was designed with the expectation that the full self-driving feature would be available soon after its release, that there'd be little need to drive it manually. The last major news I've seen on that was the announcement that they'd be designing their own custom chip for self-driving stuff, so who knows.
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Jan 9, 2018 14:06
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Cockmaster posted:The last major news I've seen on that was the announcement that they'd be designing their own custom chip for self-driving stuff, so who knows. Given that they hired Jim Keller, that wasn’t much of a surprise, yeah.
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Jan 9, 2018 14:10
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Cockmaster posted:
Which is essentially saying that anything produced up to now, including the current Model 3s and the Model S/Xs that paid extra for the autonomous driving option, don't have good enough hardware to do autonomous driving.
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Jan 9, 2018 14:19
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That’s not necessarily true. Different hardware could improve the performance of the system without it meaning that the previous performance is unacceptable. I don’t expect L4 on my AP1 Model S, though.
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Jan 9, 2018 14:28
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Subjunctive posted:That’s not necessarily true. Different hardware could improve the performance of the system without it meaning that the previous performance is unacceptable. You're right to qualify it like that, but I speculate that no current car, including the gen 1 Model 3, will get L4. What might happen is that people who have paid for the full autonomous option will get a free hardware upgrade down the line.
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Jan 9, 2018 14:38
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Ola posted:You're right to qualify it like that, but I speculate that no current car, including the gen 1 Model 3, will get L4. What might happen is that people who have paid for the full autonomous option will get a free hardware upgrade down the line. This is probably the most likely course. I still think the L4 upgrade that’s offered now is ducking stupid.
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Jan 9, 2018 17:05
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Cockmaster posted:His main criticism is essentially what Elon Musk claimed in response to criticism over the lack of a traditional instrument panel - the car was designed with the expectation that the full self-driving feature would be available soon after its release, that there'd be little need to drive it manually. Holy poo poo this is laughable.
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Jan 10, 2018 03:54
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Ola posted:You're right to qualify it like that, but I speculate that no current car, including the gen 1 Model 3, will get L4. What might happen is that people who have paid for the full autonomous option will get a free hardware upgrade down the line. A $4,000 credit on a level 4 capable telsa.
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Jan 10, 2018 04:10
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Kia released a Niro EV concept at CES and they are claiming a 238mi range. That would be a very compelling offering if what is coming out as a 2019 is anything close to that. The Niro is a nicely sized vehicle and it would give the bolt a lot of competition. Niro EV concept at CES
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Jan 10, 2018 05:32
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That might end up being the first Kia I think looks good. Those hood creases though...yikes.
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Jan 10, 2018 05:48
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I guess I only care because some guy really pissed me off by stealing the L2 port last week when I was trying to charge my electric only i3 but it's not the first time I have seen it, is there a scenario where it makes absolutely any sense to charge a plug in hybrid at a pay station? The one I was trying to use is $1.50 an hour, they were filling up their Ford Fusion Energi which apparently has a maximum electric range of 21 miles and takes 2.5 hours to fill up on level 2, so $3.75 to go electric for 21 miles. It's rated 42mpg on gas only and gas is currently like $2.20 a gallon. I'm not questioning plug in hybrids, there is actually a fairly good chance that the guy commutes 10 miles a day, even if it is more electricity is so stupidly cheap in Texas it totally makes sense to charge a plug in hybrid at home, by my calculations I'm going to spend something like $140 a YEAR in electricity to cover 100% of my daily driving, but paying to charge a plug in hybrid? Am I missing something, or were they just trying to look cool?
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Jan 10, 2018 06:14
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I plug in my Volt all over the place because it's not that expensive, less wear and tear on the gas engine, and running on electric is quieter/smoother/more comfortable.
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Jan 10, 2018 06:19
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