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Fraction Jackson posted:I agree on this line, and honestly on most of the rest too. We may have voted differently, and for different reasons, but I think we see the NRWR in pretty similar ways outside of the fake-rules-of-war ethical questions. And for my money that can only be a good thing; diversity of viewpoints makes for a more interesting thread (and gives us discussions to have during voting periods so that there isn't just page after page of single-letter posts, which is good)! Anyways, even if I liked the NRWR a whole lot I'd still have to root for their failure as they threaten the stability of the One True Heroic Faction of Battletech, the Free Worlds League. NO YOU SHUT UP EDIT: Thread is now BATTLETECH: A SPACE ODYSSEY
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Jan 6, 2018 09:45
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B
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Jan 6, 2018 10:28
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Voting B, sounds cool.
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Jan 6, 2018 10:34
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C I want more Dadlas.
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Jan 6, 2018 12:32
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I like the NRWR because the great houses expand their influence by jumping in regiments of mechs and telling the locals that they’re about to get pounded flat; the NRWR expands its influence by jumping in an industrial techbase starter kit and telling the locals that they’re about to get their economy upgraded so hard. It’s a novel approach.
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Jan 6, 2018 12:58
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I think I'll go with C. Mostly because I don't want the clans to be too hosed - they are a fun antagonist.
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Jan 6, 2018 13:23
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C because I want to see how crazy the units can get.
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Jan 6, 2018 13:43
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A Because come on, invading the invaders.
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Jan 6, 2018 14:27
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Is there a post or two that I could read to see more about what all this about the NRWR is? It's great seeing you vets discuss it but I wasn't around yet when it all happened and if like to learn more.
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Jan 6, 2018 15:04
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C because I don't want Andurien to fall just due to goons bandwagoning A.
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Jan 6, 2018 15:08
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Is there a post or two that I could read to see more about what all this about the NRWR is? It's great seeing you vets discuss it but I wasn't around yet when it all happened and if like to learn more. Go back and read Auxillia and the next few missions.
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Jan 6, 2018 15:11
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Voting for A. I don’t have anything insightful to say except it sounds like an interesting scenario with potential for a lot of outcomes.
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Jan 6, 2018 15:17
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Time to make A good decision that can't possibly go wrong.
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Jan 6, 2018 15:28
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C Let's see this through for the Jason Youngblood LLC
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Jan 6, 2018 15:59
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As tempting as A is, I really want C just in the hopes we see what what the "we've stopped playing with you clanner fucks" Dragoon II variant is. I don't think it ever actually got unveiled, did it? Just that they were converting lance arrangements to incorporate at least one of them per?
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Jan 6, 2018 16:07
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:
This is an awful example because Palpatine didn't send the Stormtroopers, and they didn't kill Luke's family because of Luke. They killed them because they didn't have the droids they were looking for. Palpatine had no idea Luke existed at that point.  I also don't think they really do any lampshading of the use of big robots to win fights. Seeing as how that's been their primary method outside of strategic weapons (which the other sides would use if they could, see:Taurians, Nukes).
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Jan 6, 2018 17:14
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Is there a post or two that I could read to see more about what all this about the NRWR is? It's great seeing you vets discuss it but I wasn't around yet when it all happened and if like to learn more. They're a (semi?) democratic nation on the edge of the sphere that turns out to have basically never had the big loss of technology everyone else did in the chaos of the fall of the inner sphere. Their president is also a descendant of the guy who killed the king of space back then - who is essentially satan+hitler combined to the clans and at least hitler to everyone else. They hate him. They hate him enough to complete abandon all plans of remaking the star league and pre-defined invasion corridors and throw everything they've got at his fortress world when they find out he's alive and he taunts them. Essentially the NRWR is the smart faction - actual technological progression, non dirt-farmer based population and every other person in the presidents lineage is an expendable decoy focused entirely on messing with people. Oh and they've got a pet clan that has taught them how clan society and tech works. They're extremely confident (probably over-confident) because while everyone else is going crazy over finding out how to make gauss rifles again, he's got optical camo mechs with wrist-blades piloted via mind-link by people in powered armor.
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Jan 6, 2018 17:46
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PoptartsNinja posted:Our First Vote PoptartsNinja posted:Voting Results are in! Voting B in honor of the Kell Hounds winning the first combat theater vote almost 7 years ago.
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Jan 6, 2018 18:12
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Might as well toss in a vote for A!
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Jan 6, 2018 19:07
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DatonKallandor posted:They're a (semi?) democratic nation on the edge of the sphere that turns out to have basically never had the big loss of technology everyone else did in the chaos of the fall of the inner sphere. Their president is also a descendant of the guy who killed the king of space back then - who is essentially satan+hitler combined to the clans and at least hitler to everyone else. In the normal non-thread universe this is true. Deuteronomy 24:16 DatonKallandor posted:They hate him. They hate him enough to complete abandon all plans of remaking the star league and pre-defined invasion corridors and throw everything they've got at his fortress world when they find out he's alive and he taunts them. 'Remaking the Star League' isn't on the Clan agenda, they're explicitly here to punish the Inner Sphere for not electing Aleksandr Kerensky to his rightful place as god-emperor of mankind 300 years ago.
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Jan 6, 2018 19:40
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A In other news, the thread exploded so fast that I've lost track. Have the guys ahead of me named their Clan 'mechs yet? And would it be possible to get that list of 'mechs that are already taken so I can go trolling through Sarna to find a clean one to name?
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Jan 6, 2018 19:46
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Jumping in on A. Kinda getting  imagining mechs stepping on commie invaders.
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Jan 6, 2018 19:49
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It's C. It's always been C.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:13
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Didn't the NRWR "win" against Kerensky's sperg-out temper tantrum in this timeline?AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Is there a post or two that I could read to see more about what all this about the NRWR is? It's great seeing you vets discuss it but I wasn't around yet when it all happened and if like to learn more. The New Rimworld's Republic is sort-of hidden extra House of the Inner Sphere in this timeline. Everybody knows they are there, but the part the main IS forces see is a small sliver of the actual NRWR territory, and they don't seem to know at all about the little outposts out around the edge of the sphere and in deep space the NRWR has outposts on. It's run by the Amaris bloodline, which as stated in another post are seen as Satan+Hitler, but back in pog form! to the Clans. The Clans only know this because the original Kerensky got his rear end beat and had to flee into deep space because people rejected his GLORIOUS LEADERSHIP. The Amaris' line appears to like high risk but generally well thought out plans. The actual NRWR is a bunch of member planets rather than a dominion, though Amaris keeps them in line through a combination of "hey it's actually pretty nice to be a member of the NRWR" and economic control. Potential member-planets are offered an orbital space factory, for free. That's tech that the rest of the IS doesn't really have access to, or if they do, they don't have the tech to reproduce it. The NRWR also is one of the few factions that still knows how to make Jump Drives, to the point where they can afford to expend a few. That leads to things like Operation Red Dawn in the current theater list, where they're sending a bunch of special forces on a one-way trip on a SUPER long range jump that is going to blow up the drive, so they can attack a Clan stronghold, blow up some stuff, and then steal a ride to get back out. It also lead to Uncle Stevie's fireworks show he put on for our benefit while we were defending Andurien, which involved the main clan flagship in Orbit getting hit by a jump torpedo, which was basically just a tiny unmanned (?) ship with a jump drive that came in from out of system and re-entered realspace INSIDE the engine of the Clan warship. That surprised the hell out of them, and they still think it was just a mechanical failure as far as we know. Of course the Jump Torpedo antics were flashy and required extreme precision to not have it all go horribly wrong, and baiting the Clans into fighting on Andurien even though they know there is at least a reasonable chance the Clans will just crush them and have free reign to murder everyone in NRWR space in petty vengeance. Operation Red Dawn is a literal shot in the dark. All of these plans take a horrible economic toll because they've basically been running everything at 120% capacity just to keep up, on the thought that if they can win, they'll have a lot more time to then get everything in sustainable order, but a loss is horrible death at the hands of the Clans either way, so go big or get your home burned down by the great-great-grandsons of that crazy guy who hates you. Steven Amaris VII is the current president. We don't know a whole lot about him beyond that he is cold and calculating, and seems reasonably smart and is decent at manipulating things to work out in his favor, but it is implied he has a crazy supervillain side that will come out if he starts losing. Steven Amaris VI, aka "Uncle Stevie", was the presidents dad. Every other generation gets skipped in succession, because they think being a nut is limited to skipping a generation and it also gives them a jolly, semi-benevolent millionaire type to go out and show up at public events and party with the people to make it look like they care. Uncle Stevie was murdered by Clan Elementals sneaking in the sewer pipes of his fortress, as he was the "bait" Amaris on Andurien to make sure the Clans came and fought them there. The Clans do not know that he's not President Amaris listed above. Uncle Stevie arranged for the aforementioned jump torpedoing of the Clan flagship, he provided the Demon Hawks with King Dadlas (in exchange for an old Atlas!), and generally loved the Demon Hawks because they were as flashy and over the top on the battlefield as he was in the public eye. We were basically his quirky miniboss squad, except we won fights. Oh, and the NRWR also has basic drone control tech. This has lead them to have some drone carriers for space defense (deployed to Andurien to keep the Clan fleet busy), but also quad mechs that are drone controlled in various loadouts. Some are simply drones with guns that go fight stuff, but they have a bigger, badder brother dubbed "Good Doggies" by the thread. They're suicide bomb drones, and we released a bunch of them into an airfield where we were fighting the defenders in the middle of a literal hurricane. It did not go particularly well for the airfield.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:30
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C - I want to see what the Demon Hawks and their Clanner defectors are up to.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:24
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I'm pretty much all NRWR'ed out as well. They're well written, and a breath of fresh air after the greater incompetence we've seen of the Inner Sphere, but I can't get past a lot of the historical bias against them. Yeah, Uncle Stevie was cool and all, and the super tech and bomb doggies and the Screamer and King Dadlas help a lot, but I guess I just can't get over it for whatever reason. Never having gotten into BT prior to this thread, I should be coming in fresh with no preconceptions, but after this thread, I binged a lot of material and fan stuff on another forum, and in almost all of it that features Amaris, he really is written as Space Hitler, so that really colors my view of them. Still, playing as genocide Clans doing their second invasion doesn't play well to me either. Looks like it's either gonna be A or C right now, though Red Dawn looks like it'll be more interesting. I dunno, I guess I'll be good with whatever wins, but I'm still not voting at the moment.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:39
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If you're looking for the least morally objectionable campaign, it's probably A. A is a (very exotic!) military campaign. B is basically ethnic cleansing, C is a continuing mutual war of extinction. Though as a reminder, as far as we know in this timline the original Steven Amaris from the Star League days was not Space Hitler, he was just the guy fighting against Crazy Nicky and company.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:42
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Zaodai posted:If you're looking for the least morally objectionable campaign, it's probably A. A is a (very exotic!) military campaign. B is basically ethnic cleansing, C is a continuing mutual war of extinction. A is also a continuing mutual war of extinction, 2 of them even. There's no way in hell the Wolverines won't warcrime the poo poo out of everything they can.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:44
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dis astranagant posted:A is also a continuing mutual war of extinction, 2 of them even. There's no way in hell the Wolverines won't warcrime the poo poo out of everything they can. Uh, they were EXPLICITLY ORDERED not to warcrime everything, and President Amaris sent along some of his people to make sure it didn't happen. [EDIT] I mean, they might still do it. But right now we have every reason to expect they wont. And if they players are in control, and they don't want to warcrime things, then they wont.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:45
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Zaodai posted:Though as a reminder, as far as we know in this timline the original Steven Amaris from the Star League days was not Space Hitler, he was just the guy fighting against Crazy Nicky and company. Fair. Though it probably should be the guy fighting against Alex, not Nicky K. He came later. Still, preconceived bias is a helluva thing. Still really don't feel right supporting the Fat Man even if he wasn't Space Hitler in history here. And as I said, none of these options really grab me. I guess I'll pretty much be fine watching whatever campaign the collective goonmind in thread eventually picks, which looks like it'll be A.
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Jan 6, 2018 22:29
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I doubt any of us would enjoy the thread quite as much if we didn't have preconceived notions coming in. No shame in that. One thing is for sure. We're going to get a good fight regardless of which option wins. 
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Jan 6, 2018 22:37
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Oh, and A. The clans need to experience the wrath of the NRWR’s elite paramilitary forces: the Eagle Scouts! God I love that movie.
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Jan 7, 2018 00:14
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PoptartsNinja posted:'Remaking the Star League' isn't on the Clan agenda, they're explicitly here to punish the Inner Sphere for not electing Aleksandr Kerensky to his rightful place as god-emperor of mankind 300 years ago. So one of the clans deciding to found a new star league is a big slap in the face? I get why the homeworld clans are pissed off now.
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Jan 7, 2018 01:09
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Zaodai posted:Uh, they were EXPLICITLY ORDERED not to warcrime everything, and President Amaris sent along some of his people to make sure it didn't happen. If A is the same superjump option as the last vote I'm pretty sure that plan involved reducing the Clan Homeworlds to a preindustrial society, specifically: Page 1880 posted:“They wouldn’t do anything significant to a planet,” Amaris replied. He turned away, staring in the direction of his balcony doors. “I don’t want to cause ecological devastation. I just want the Homeworld Clan society reduced to an agrarian one. I’m trusting you to keep the Wolverines’ desires in check.” I don't really see a huge difference between "genocide the Clans" and "destroy their ability to have an interstellar society and interstellar trade, on harsh worlds that have only been settled for a couple centuries, also it's a society that is probably ill-equipped for basic subsistence farming without modern technology". I'm pretty sure that's the same end result, only the second option is a weaselly attempt to pretend it wasn't the intention all along. edit: I mean imagine for example, as just one possible interpretation: imagine that tomorrow every piece of farm equipment that used machinery more complicated than found in the 18th century, along with industrial-grade fertilizer, disappeared. I really don't know how else to interpret "I just want [their] society reduced to an agrarian one" than something resembling that. And while I think it is definitely interesting for the NRWR to have a batshit plan involving a super-jump surgical strike to cripple Clan society Once And For All, it's hard to argue that it doesn't make the FS Oriental Purge, or Turtle Bay, or Kentares, from the original canon look like baby's first violation of international law by comparison. Fraction Jackson fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Jan 7, 2018 |
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Jan 7, 2018 01:12
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He just wants them to find their true calling: farming.
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Jan 7, 2018 01:29
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DatonKallandor posted:So one of the clans deciding to found a new star league is a big slap in the face? I get why the homeworld clans are pissed off now. Especially since they did it by joining with the Houses as equals. Fraction Jackson posted:I don't really see a huge difference between "genocide the Clans" and "destroy their ability to have an interstellar society and interstellar trade, on harsh worlds that have only been settled for a couple centuries, also it's a society that is probably ill-equipped for basic subsistence farming without modern technology". I'm pretty sure that's the same end result, only the second option is a weaselly attempt to pretend it wasn't the intention all along. The Clan homeworlds have already been knocked down far enough to lose interstellar travel and virtually all manufacturing once (Pentagon Civil War) and everyone didn't die that time. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Jan 7, 2018 |
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Jan 7, 2018 01:40
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posting to check my post to change my vote
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Jan 7, 2018 02:28
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fixed
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Jan 7, 2018 02:30
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Viva Miriya posted:posting to check my post to change my vote You're probably SOL unless PTN hasn't looked at this thread since voting opened. PoptartsNinja posted:Remember Votes are Final so if you're not certain who you want to choose, wait a day or two and see if anyone makes a convincing argument!
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Jan 7, 2018 02:33
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Fraction Jackson posted:If A is the same superjump option as the last vote I'm pretty sure that plan involved reducing the Clan Homeworlds to a preindustrial society, specifically: You could also consider it being that you destroy their means to make war on a planetary scale. It's going to require taking out the warriors, that's for sure, and even if you imagine they'll use CapCon level Warcrimes I'm not sure how they plan to pull that off. But I do find it interesting that you consider "everyone in the faction trying to genocide us is reduced to farming now" is actually worse than "civilians under occupation being nuked out of spite". If the Amaris line has proven anything, it's that the straightforward answer for what you think they're going to do probably isn't what they're actually going to do. Oribtal strikes are already out since he said that's why he wouldn't use jump torpedos. Virus bombs just kill everybody. Straight scorched earth warfare would get them crushed before they made it through two Clans at BEST. Maybe the Wolverines clued him in on how Scientists are treated in the Clan worlds and he's hoping to arrange a Society-esque uprising. If you blow up the mech factories and the only people who understand what a factory even is are gone because they hate the Warrior caste, them bam, you get your agrarian society. I honestly don't know how they're going to do it, but from the section you quoted I read far more into the "I’m trusting you to keep the Wolverines’ desires in check.” part of that line than reducing them to being an agrarian society as a warcrime. I personally don't consider the end goal itself a war crime at all depending on how you get there, but there isn't really an objective measure for that.
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Jan 7, 2018 02:44
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