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Again, those folks are asking why the US military chooses not to adopt the same tactics as Al Qaeda; it’s wild to watch “Carrier fleet? gently caress it, look how effective suicide car IEDs are!”
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Jan 6, 2018 16:41
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RBA Starblade posted:The rest of the movie everyone thinks that it is incredibly weird. They already had like literally four or five captains die on their capital ships for no reason
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Jan 6, 2018 16:44
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Al Borland Corp. posted:They already had like literally four or five captains die on their capital ships for no reason I felt like a scene was cut regarding this or something. Anakin does a similar trick in an episode of Clone Wars (just to set up ramming a ship though) and there he sets it up as a diversion because at these ranges of spaceships flying around their scanners were like a binary "life signs detected" or "no life signs detected" if just one person was on it so it let him manipulate what ships the enemy fleet's folks were paying attention to. Like they meant to have each of those captains have some more impact on buying everyone else time but in the movie it's just like a straight line of ships running out of fuel.
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Jan 6, 2018 17:38
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Waffles Inc. posted:Again, those folks are asking why the US military chooses not to adopt the same tactics as Al Qaeda; it’s wild to watch The underlying principle for a cruise missile is to take an airplane, remove the parts designed to accommodate a pilot or launch weapons, and instead strap the payload to the plane and fly it directly into the target. They are suicide car IEDs with the advantage of an absurd military budget.
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Jan 6, 2018 18:04
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Zoran posted:The underlying principle for a cruise missile is to take an airplane, remove the parts designed to accommodate a pilot or launch weapons, and instead strap the payload to the plane and fly it directly into the target. They are suicide car IEDs with the advantage of an absurd military budget. I said it before but a shift from dreadnought designs to lighter carrier designs seems like a given, the way fighters do damage right now. Also hyperspace missiles would develop star wars into an early cold war (like early 50s). If they wanna go somewhere new its there
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Jan 6, 2018 18:15
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What Star Wars does not need is Gundam style Minorvsky particle style explanations of its tech, as much as I love Gundam and its technobabble nonsense
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Jan 6, 2018 19:05
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I just hope for the death star in episode 9 its beam gets deflected by a giant lightsaber
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Jan 6, 2018 19:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The Trade Federation is the corporation-planet that delivers food to Naboo, since Naboo’s a resort-planet (built around a lucrative mining facility) with no real agriculture. ...what? Where the hell is any of this in the movie? The Trade Federation showed up with an invasion army, put up a blockade as an excuse for the battleships being there. They did this to gain control of the system. The thing about Naboo raising taxes on imports is completely made up. Like, maybe you feel you can infer that's what happened because why else would the Trade Federation be able to say the blockade was legal, but the movie just tells you, "Trade Federation established a blockade, while hiding an invasion force, they were convinced to do this by Palpatine, and he used the blockade to generate sympathy he used to ascend to Chancellor," while telling you absolutely nothing about why the blockade was, to an outsider, set up in the first place. You're inventing a reason the movie does not give. The EU even invented a reason, something about Free Trade Zones being used, and the Republic ending them, and that pissing off the Federation, but that's dumb in it's own way. Neither that, nor your reasoning, is anywhere in the movie. It's bullshit when someone defends something not being in a movie by saying, "In the EU, they explained this with....." It's similarly bullshit to just make something up on your own. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 6, 2018 20:06
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they also never explained what Naboo imported or exported that would be worth blockading
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Jan 6, 2018 20:21
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thrawn527 posted:...what? Where the hell is any of this in the movie? Dang dude, you really do need to be careful. Another case of a fan's Star Wars Blindness. The Opening Crawl posted:Turmoil has engulfed the Galactic Republic. The taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute. So, right there in the opening crawl we get that Naboo is small and outlying, and that the taxation was on trade routes to such systems. The Trade Federation stops shipping to Naboo. Very few protest lower taxes and the Trade Federation is greedy (i.e. wants more money), so the clear inference is that it is an increased tax on imports.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:23
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I liked the that Black Captain guy in episode 1. I think he was briefly in 2, wish he had had a bigger role. Not sure what I would have done with him though if I were in charge either.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:27
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homullus posted:So, right there in the opening crawl we get that Naboo is small and outlying, and that the taxation was on trade routes to such systems. The Trade Federation stops shipping to Naboo. Very few protest lower taxes and the Trade Federation is greedy (i.e. wants more money), so the clear inference is that it is an increased tax on imports. Wow. Riveting stuff. A wall O’ text at the beginning of a Star Wars movie talking about taxation and trade disputes.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:27
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homullus posted:Dang dude, you really do need to be careful. Another case of a fan's Star Wars Blindness. Right, I said you could infer it, but the movie in no way says Naboo has increased any taxes. SMG said, "Naboo substantially raised the taxes it charges on imports", and that's not in the movie. It says "taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute". That could mean a lot of things. Like I said, the EU took it to mean something completely different. It might have meant that the Trade Federation was trying to raise taxes, because maybe the Republic put something called the Trade Federation in charge of tax rates on trading between the systems, and Naboo is refusing to pay it, so the Trade Federation is doing their "legal" obligation in enforcing trade taxes by blockading the planet so nothing gets out without the proper taxes being paid ("Out blockade is perfectly legal"). Sure, I just made that up, but it works just as well with what the movie gives you as what SMG made up. This is one of the reasons some people say the plot doesn't make much sense. The reason behind the blockade isn't really well explained. In the end, it doesn't matter, because it was all a smoke screen for Palpatine's machinations. But when you start the movie, and you're left wondering, "Wait, why is there a blockade? Taxes? Whose taxes?", it doesn't really start you off in the best frame of mind for enjoying a movie.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:33
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Al Borland Corp. posted:I liked the that Black Captain guy in episode 1. I think he was briefly in 2, wish he had had a bigger role. Not sure what I would have done with him though if I were in charge either. I liked how he oversaw the distribution of Zimas and established that black people ensuring everyone has alcoholic beverages was kind of a recurring motif (after Lando gave everyone beers)
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Jan 6, 2018 20:34
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The white nabooians export the blueish energy they mine, the same energy the gungans use for weapons and stuff. They probably import everything else. Anyway, who would raise the tax in the first place? I dont think the senate did since federation pulled a lot of support there. Might just be palpatine/amidala
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Jan 6, 2018 20:42
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Al Borland Corp. posted:I liked the that Black Captain guy in episode 1. I think he was briefly in 2, wish he had had a bigger role. Not sure what I would have done with him though if I were in charge either. Captain Panaka.. hell yeah His replacement in 2 is like 4 times worse
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Jan 6, 2018 20:43
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homullus posted:Dang dude, you really do need to be careful. Another case of a fan's Star Wars Blindness. Uhhhhhh america protested lower taxes
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Jan 6, 2018 20:44
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thrawn527 posted:Right, I said you could infer it, but the movie in no way says Naboo has increased any taxes. SMG said, "Naboo substantially raised the taxes it charges on imports", and that's not in the movie. It says "taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute". That could mean a lot of things. Like I said, the EU took it to mean something completely different. So in a movie you're complaining has exposition that doesn't matter, the lack of exposition is one of the big flaws? You're losing your mind, man. You would be crushed under the weight of things Star Wars films imply without dialogue explicitly confirming it. Can Snoke use the Force? Sure, you can infer it, but Snoke never says "yes, excellent, that FORCE LIGHTING that I just used CAME FROM THE FORCE" and his Praetorian Guards don't nod their heads in agreement. If somebody is complaining about taxes and there is a blockade to resolve those taxes in a film, more likely than not it is because taxes went up, and the blockade is on the commerce in question. This isn't hard. Wild Horses posted:The white nabooians export the blueish energy they mine, the same energy the gungans use for weapons and stuff. They probably import everything else. Anyway, who would raise the tax in the first place? I dont think the senate did since federation pulled a lot of support there. Might just be palpatine/amidala Palpatine: Supreme Chancellor, delegates of the Senate, a tragedy has occurred... which started right here with the taxation of trade routes... and has now engulfed our entire planet... in the oppression of the Trade Federation. homullus fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 6, 2018 21:06
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thrawn527 posted:Right, I said you could infer it, but the movie in no way says Naboo has increased any taxes The crawl says it. No inference necessary. Why would a company that ships TO a place send an army to the place they're shipping in regards to taxes? thrawn527 posted:This is one of the reasons some people say the plot doesn't make much sense. The reason behind the blockade isn't really well explained. ... "Wait, why is there a blockade? Taxes? Whose taxes?", it doesn't really start you off in the best frame of mind for enjoying a movie. The opening crawl explains this, like, do we need to break it down even more than this? quote:Turmoil has engulfed the Galactic Republic. The taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:06
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Maybe.....maybe a different group raised the taxes ?????
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Jan 6, 2018 21:10
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Waffles Inc. posted:The opening crawl explains this, like, do we need to break it down even more than this? It says trade routes are in dispute, and there's a blockade, and Jedi are going to help negotiate things. That's it. Not who raised what taxes. In fact, this... homullus posted:Valorum: The chair recognizes the Senator from the sovereign system of Naboo. ...outright states that the Republic established the taxes. If the Republic establishes the taxes, how does Naboo raise them? I'm not saying that's not what happened, I'm saying the movie is murky on explaining them.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:13
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This whole discussion is underlining how dull parts of TPM are
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Jan 6, 2018 21:14
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Wild Horses posted:Captain Panaka.. hell yeah There's only allowed to be one black man on Naboo at a time, and it's an elected position.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:15
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thrawn527 posted:Right, I said you could infer it, but the movie in no way says Naboo has increased any taxes. SMG said, "Naboo substantially raised the taxes it charges on imports", and that's not in the movie. First of all, it is in the movie. It says at the very start that there is a dispute. The origin of the dispute is not shown in the movie, because that is the backstory. We see the immediate result of the dispute, which is the blockade. Amidala refers to the blockade as a boycott, which means something that Naboo did instigated a protest. The Federation are protesting higher taxes by refusing to send food anymore, while Amidala plans to force them: “You have been commanded to reach a settlement.” The Federation had no plan to actually invade, at the time. Quigon calls the blockade trivial, and the T-Feds themselves call it a failed scheme. Roughly five minutes into the film, the trade dispute is completely over. The entire rest of the film is a standard alien invasion plot. sponges posted:Wow. Riveting stuff. A wall O’ text at the beginning of a Star Wars movie talking about taxation and trade disputes. It’s literally two sentences - one of which includes the phrase “deadly battleships”, in case your attention span was starting to peter out.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:16
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sponges posted:Wow. Riveting stuff. A wall O’ text at the beginning of a Star Wars movie talking about taxation and trade disputes. This is how wars start. One of the big justifications for Japan attacking at Pearl Harbor was the US embargo on Japan and the breakdown in negotiations in 1940 and 41.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:16
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The disputes that set off the events of Episode 1 are mundane because there's no war, and seemingly hasn't been one for a long time.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:16
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EugeneDebsWasCool posted:This is how wars start. One of the big justifications for Japan attacking at Pearl Harbor was the US embargo on Japan and the breakdown in negotiations in 1940 and 41. Zzzzzzzzzz (this is me sleeping through TPM opening crawl)
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Jan 6, 2018 21:20
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If they want to keep my attention during a title crawl they need to put in some ASCII boobs
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Jan 6, 2018 21:25
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I fall asleep during all star wars opening crawls. Except RoTS, because that one starts with an exclamation.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:27
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Amidala refers to the blockade as a boycott, which means something that Naboo did instigated a protest. That doesn't mean that, you're inferring it means that. They could be protesting something the Republic did in regards to something that affects Naboo. quote:NUTE : (cont'd) Again you come before me, Your highness. The Federation is pleased. She's using boycott and blockade to mean the same thing. She's saying the boycott/blockade is over, because the Republic is intervening. It gives no reason for the boycott/blockade in the first place. SuperMechagodzilla posted:The Federation are protesting higher taxes by refusing to send food anymore SuperMechagodzilla posted:The Federation had no plan to actually invade, at the time. Of course they do. They bring an army. Also, there's this exchange. quote:RUNE : She's right, the Senate will never.... Nute flat out says, "The invasion is on schedule, My Lord." They absolutely planned to invade.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:27
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thrawn527 posted:It says trade routes are in dispute, and there's a blockade, and Jedi are going to help negotiate things. That's it. Not who raised what taxes. In fact, this... If England raises taxes in its colonies, how does Boston have higher taxes? Murky! Step one: notice that Naboo is represented in the Senate Step two: infer that Naboo is part of the Republic Step three: infer that a Senate decision to raise taxes on trade routes to outlying worlds affects Naboo, which is part of the Republic
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Jan 6, 2018 21:28
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Boring stuff I see no reason to believe George Lucas knew or cared about what a boycott is, or how to accurately use that word in his movie.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:28
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sponges posted:Zzzzzzzzzz (this is me sleeping through TPM opening crawl) That's nice. I was interested to see how a democratic Republic at peace for a millenia transformed into an autocratic Empire within a generation. I'm a history nerd and I love that kind of poo poo.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:31
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homullus posted:If England raises taxes in its colonies, how does Boston have higher taxes? Murky! I don't know what this has to do with the conversation. This would be like saying, "There is dispute about taxes between the colonies and England? I guess Boston raised taxes on imports." homullus posted:Step one: notice that Naboo is represented in the Senate How does that mean "Naboo substantially raised the taxes it charges on imports", which was the quote that got us into this in the first place? Not the Republic, mind you, Naboo. If the Republic sets the taxes, how does that make Naboo the instigator? The Trade Federation is a member of the Republic, and represented in the Senate, too.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:32
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EugeneDebsWasCool posted:That's nice. I was interested to see how a democratic Republic at peace for a millenia transformed into an autocratic Empire within a generation. I'm a history nerd and I love that kind of poo poo. You got your answer. A trade dispute!
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Jan 6, 2018 21:33
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-There are controversial taxes on imports to smaller 'outlying' planets. -The Trade Federation protest the taxes with a legal blockade. -The Republic commands them to stop the blockade, even though it's legal, by threatening violence. That's the whole conflict, and it takes up like three minutes of screen-time total.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:36
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thrawn527 posted:I don't know what this has to do with the conversation. This would be like saying, "There is dispute about taxes between the colonies and England? I guess Boston raised taxes on imports." I can't speak for you, but what got me into this in the first place is your claim that the movie doesn't explain the issue. It does, clearly, before you see anything other than yellow text and stars. If you want to move the goal posts and claim that your concern was SMG's claim that it was Naboo, not the Republic, because it's clear as day to you that the Republic raised taxes on imports to Naboo, then go ahead, but you have some other wild claims about confusion to walk back.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:37
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:-There are controversial taxes on imports to smaller 'outlying' planets. What about the droid army and the poison gas
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Jan 6, 2018 21:38
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:-There are controversial taxes on imports to smaller 'outlying' planets. The problem is that you’re kicking off your new Star Wars trilogy with something so tedious
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Jan 6, 2018 21:39
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sponges posted:You got your answer. A trade dispute! Which is how wars start on a pretty regular basis so that rings true. The Cold War could be boiled down due to differences in economic policy between former allies. sponges posted:The problem is that you’re kicking off your new Star Wars trilogy with something so tedious This is how wars start. Most wars have been fought over economic interests.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:39
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