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Citing other human rights violators doesn't excuse Israel's behavior, but it is hypocritical to selectively care. Boteach is a relentless self promoter who no one takes seriously. Zogby is a clown too, who went crazy about Rachael Ray promoting Israeli hummus, even though the largest plurality of Israelis are Mizrahim. That doesn't fit his false narrative of Israelis being imports from Brooklyn and Moscow (when they're really Middle Eastern Jews who were ethnically cleansed from Baghdad and Algiers.)
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Jan 1, 2018 01:57
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Kim Jong Il posted:Zogby is a clown too, who went crazy about Rachael Ray promoting Israeli hummus, even though the largest plurality of Israelis are Mizrahim. That doesn't fit his false narrative of Israelis being imports from Brooklyn and Moscow (when they're really Middle Eastern Jews who were ethnically cleansed from Baghdad and Algiers.) Eh, let's be honest here and a lot of Israelis are originally from the former Soviet Union, specifically 916,000, which is a decent chunk of the Jewish population of Israel. In total, Ashkenazi Jews are roughly 50% of Israeli Jewish population (2.8 million) while Mirzrahim are a slightly smaller community of 2.5 million looking at wikipedia. If anything the flood of former Soviet Jews changed the balance in Israel (and probably much of its politics).
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Jan 1, 2018 02:38
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IN BATTLE THERE IS NO LAW Preen Dog posted:Very nice but spoiler NWS please.  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 1, 2018 09:43
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Ardennes posted:Eh, let's be honest here and a lot of Israelis are originally from the former Soviet Union, specifically 916,000, which is a decent chunk of the Jewish population of Israel. In total, Ashkenazi Jews are roughly 50% of Israeli Jewish population (2.8 million) while Mirzrahim are a slightly smaller community of 2.5 million looking at wikipedia. The official stats say 37% Sabra, 35% Ashkenazi, 28% Mizrahi. Mizrahi will have the largest piece of Sabra, so I'm comfortable saying they're the largest plurality, among Israelis period and Israeli Jews. I don't think Soviet immigrants changed politics much. They've largely been in the center, whether that was Sharansky in the 90s or Lieberman (who really doesn't stand for anything besides Trump-style corruption) today. Some people's perceptions are warped on this because Lieberman ran one campaign on the far right (which he's since completely backed away from), and Russian Jews in the US really are crazy right wingers. The bigger cause by far is increased political participation by Mizrahim, who are super right wing.
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Jan 1, 2018 23:50
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Potential BFF posted:IN BATTLE THERE IS NO LAW Very nice but spoiler NWS please.  e. I found one of the arrested Palestinian kids. 
Preen Dog fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Jan 2, 2018 |
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Jan 2, 2018 00:24
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Potential BFF posted:IN BATTLE THERE IS NO LAW If KM sees this you are gonna get sooooo many sassy black lady gifs coming your way. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 2, 2018 06:00
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Img- me farting on racists, who are holding a Torah, while saying the word "Yahweh" and eating shrimp. Or that thing with jesus and the elephant god from PBF.Kim Jong Il posted:Citing other human rights violators doesn't excuse Israel's behavior, but it is hypocritical to selectively care. Boteach is a relentless self promoter who no one takes seriously. Who is selectively caring? Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Jan 2, 2018 |
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Jan 2, 2018 16:31
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Nevvy Z posted:Who is selectively caring? If you don't specifically research all human rights atrocities, assign them "atrocity scores," and then divide your time proportionally, you're a hypocrite edit: My feeling is that it doesn't matter which things someone focuses on and how much they focus on them, as long as they're not trying to downplay other issues in the process (and the things they're focusing on are legitimate/correct). Someone who spends most of their time discussing the I/P situation is fine, but someone who does this and also says "I don't think X human rights atrocity is as important and I/P issues should be prioritized above it" is a problem. Fortunately, I'm pretty sure literally no one in this thread is saying the latter. For example, compare a person who just doesn't care at all about human rights issues like this with someone who only cares about the I/P situation. I would say the latter person certainly isn't worse in that situation, but KJI's logic would tar them as a hypocrite. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jan 2, 2018 |
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Jan 2, 2018 22:38
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Ytlaya posted:KJI's logic would tar them as a hypocrite. That's the point, to discredit the critic rather than actually deal with the criticism
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Jan 2, 2018 23:01
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Nebalebadingdong posted:That's the point, to discredit the critic rather than actually deal with the criticism Furthermore, if everyone actually cared about and acted upon everything in equal measure, nothing would ever actually change the status quo due to division of focus. It's why protest movements don't try to cure all the world's ills at once, it doesn't loving work.
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Jan 2, 2018 23:28
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Maluco Marinero posted:Furthermore, if everyone actually cared about and acted upon everything in equal measure, nothing would ever actually change the status quo due to division of focus. It's why protest movements don't try to cure all the world's ills at once, it doesn't loving work. True but this argument just indulges their bogus assertion. It's intended to muddy the water and shut down debate. It should be countered on those grounds as an act of cowardice
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Jan 2, 2018 23:34
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So Trump just went insane on twitter and made clear that from his perspective Jerusalem is off the table in terms of a peace deal now, which is definitely not how his administration was selling the embassy move. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/948322496591384576 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/948322497602220032 It would make life worse for Palestinians in the short term, with no guarantee that it would ever get better, but I feel it's getting to be time for the PA to dissolve and force Israel to expose the permanent occupation for what it is without the smiley face version of Palestinian cooperation they've been able to prop up for the world. Unless they can start getting recognition from other countries and more representation at the UN i guess. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jan 3, 2018 |
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Jan 2, 2018 23:48
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Nebalebadingdong posted:True but this argument just indulges their bogus assertion. It's intended to muddy the water and shut down debate. It should be countered on those grounds as an act of cowardice Oh absolutely, my point is that the overall idea of telling people they're not caring about things is dilution of the competition so they don't have to defend themselves. Both are a tacit admission of the weakness of their arguments, as you say, cowardice.
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Jan 3, 2018 00:03
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Nikki Haley and the Trump Admin are threatening to revoke funding for Palestinian refugees, and possibly aid to the Palestinians in general, if they 'don't come to the peace table'. It's unclear from Haley's comments exactly which aid they are threatening. https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/1.832685
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Jan 3, 2018 00:29
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absolute garbage people we got running the show.
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Jan 3, 2018 00:31
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also Trump starting tweeting this within the last hour, so yeah, he's going after everyone today it seems https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump...genumber%3D6013
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Jan 3, 2018 00:34
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FlamingLiberal posted:also Trump starting tweeting this within the last hour, so yeah, he's going after everyone today it seems Surprising that nobody posted that before now.
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Jan 3, 2018 00:36
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president deals is very bad at this negotiating thing.
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Jan 3, 2018 00:37
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Groovelord Neato posted:president deals is very bad at this negotiating thing. His method of negotiating in the past has been "allow me to dictate the terms of the deal or I will walk away". Well, that and not paying labor until there's a risk of successful legal action, whereupon he settles for less than he owes. Weirdly, this doesn't work as well on the international stage.
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Jan 3, 2018 01:00
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Nebalebadingdong posted:True but this argument just indulges their bogus assertion. It's intended to muddy the water and shut down debate. It should be countered on those grounds as an act of cowardice Cowardice is focusing on a conflict's ability to generate headlines, and not evaluating priorities strictly in terms of body count, casualties, net human suffering, etc... It's also promoting feel good policies like disbanding the PA, or BDS, which will undoubtedly make everything far worse.
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Jan 4, 2018 03:31
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Kim Jong Il posted:Cowardice is focusing on a conflict's ability to generate headlines, and not evaluating priorities strictly in terms of body count, casualties, net human suffering, etc... It's also promoting feel good policies like disbanding the PA, or BDS, which will undoubtedly make everything far worse. More nonsense from you. I'm sure BDS activists feel real good when they're targeted by the state to be silenced and smeared.
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Jan 4, 2018 03:50
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And ousted from academia. But somehow I get the sense that integrity is an unknowable quantity to KJI
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Jan 4, 2018 04:31
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You don't even have to be a BDS supporter, just be critical of Israel and piss off the wrong guy. Just ask Finkelstein.
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Jan 4, 2018 04:46
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Kim Jong Il posted:Cowardice is focusing on a conflict's ability to generate headlines, and not evaluating priorities strictly in terms of body count, casualties, net human suffering, etc... It's also promoting feel good policies like disbanding the PA, or BDS, which will undoubtedly make everything far worse. How effective at creating peace is the PA's giving Israel largely what it wants(security cooperation) without getting any real concessions? If you want to know why Israeli governments have no interest in making concessions- it's because the PA has largely already given up the only leverage they have left. Forcing IDF troops to be even more active in the territories would actually put pressure on them in a meaningful way, but the PA leadership has chosen a meager 'legitimacy' in exchange for having any kind of bargaining position.
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Jan 4, 2018 06:10
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Absurd Alhazred posted:You don't even have to be a BDS supporter, just be critical of Israel and piss off the wrong guy. Just ask Finkelstein. it's incredible that a plagiarist got the guy who called him out in trouble and not the other way round.
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Jan 4, 2018 15:57
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Panzeh posted:How effective at creating peace is the PA's giving Israel largely what it wants(security cooperation) without getting any real concessions? If you want to know why Israeli governments have no interest in making concessions- it's because the PA has largely already given up the only leverage they have left. Forcing IDF troops to be even more active in the territories would actually put pressure on them in a meaningful way, but the PA leadership has chosen a meager 'legitimacy' in exchange for having any kind of bargaining position. Israel paying the PA bigwigs directly for peace might be the easiest way to make it happen. You can't deposit rage in your Swiss account, nor do palaces build themselves. Abbas is probably tired of these intifadas intifering with his me time. Then I/P grows together in harmony like yin and yang (Palestine being the two dots).
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Jan 5, 2018 00:00
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Preen Dog posted:Israel paying the PA bigwigs directly for peace might be the easiest way to make it happen. You can't deposit rage in your Swiss account, nor do palaces build themselves. Abbas is probably tired of these intifadas intifering with his me time. Palestinian public opinion matters, though, and Abbas isn't very popular. If he makes a deal that doesn't cover any of the Palestinian priorities and is obviously just selling them all out for personal profit, then it's doubtful he'll live to enjoy it. 
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Jan 5, 2018 04:40
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Well, Netanyahu has announced that all African
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Jan 5, 2018 22:51
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Will there be enough room in regular prisons for actual criminals, or will they need to build new detention facilities in which they could concentrate all these people jailed because of their ethnic origins?
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Jan 5, 2018 23:06
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Cat Mattress posted:Will there be enough room in regular prisons for actual criminals, or will they need to build new detention facilities in which they could concentrate all these people jailed because of their ethnic origins? They could just force all the undesirables into Gaza, it's basically an open air concentration camp now.
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Jan 5, 2018 23:34
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Main Paineframe posted:Well, Netanyahu has announced that all African Cat Mattress posted:Will there be enough room in regular prisons for actual criminals, or will they need to build new detention facilities in which they could concentrate all these people jailed because of their ethnic origins? https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%9E%D7%AA%D7%A7%D7%9F_%D7%97%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%AA
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Jan 5, 2018 23:50
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Israel's new death penalty bill 'targets Palestinians' Just shooting Palestinians out on the streets clearly isn't working fast enough for Israel.
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Jan 6, 2018 03:36
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R. Mute posted:Israel's new death penalty bill 'targets Palestinians'
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Jan 6, 2018 18:46
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Cat Mattress posted:Will there be enough room in regular prisons for actual criminals, or will they need to build new detention facilities in which they could concentrate all these people jailed because of their ethnic origins? If there's not enough room, they'll move to gas and mass graves without blinking.
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Jan 6, 2018 18:51
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Nebalebadingdong posted:More nonsense from you. I'm sure BDS activists feel real good when they're targeted by the state to be silenced and smeared. Mr. Lobe posted:And ousted from academia. But somehow I get the sense that integrity is an unknowable quantity to KJI These are either deliberate misreadings or failures of reading comprehension. They're "feel good" policies because they make adherents think they're accomplishing something substantive, when in fact they empower the Israeli far right and make the situation worse. Panzeh posted:How effective at creating peace is the PA's giving Israel largely what it wants(security cooperation) without getting any real concessions? If you want to know why Israeli governments have no interest in making concessions- it's because the PA has largely already given up the only leverage they have left. Forcing IDF troops to be even more active in the territories would actually put pressure on them in a meaningful way, but the PA leadership has chosen a meager 'legitimacy' in exchange for having any kind of bargaining position. Security cooperation is what the PA wants, because the alternative is a replay of the open conflict of the second intifada. The current situation is a massive win for Palestinians given that alternative. Both directly, and the fact that it makes them far more sympathetic internationally. Accelerationism is stupid, and will accomplish nothing but a lot of pain. They literally tried that and it was an unmitigated disaster. You also shouldn't conflate Israeli governments with Likud. There was demonstrable progress under recent Labor and Kadima governments. If someone wants to improve the lives of Palestinians, stop doing stupid poo poo like BDS that empowers Likud, so the opposition can actually win an election.
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Jan 6, 2018 23:02
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Kim Jong Il posted:These are either deliberate misreadings or failures of reading comprehension. They're "feel good" policies because they make adherents think they're accomplishing something substantive, when in fact they empower the Israeli far right and make the situation worse. Not doing anything also empowers the Israeli far right and makes the situation worse. Largely because what empowers the Israeli far right and makes the situation worse is, in first place, the majority or at least the plurality of the Israeli electorate.
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Jan 6, 2018 23:14
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Kim Jong Il posted:You also shouldn't conflate Israeli governments with Likud. There was demonstrable progress under recent Labor and Kadima governments. If someone wants to improve the lives of Palestinians, stop doing stupid poo poo like BDS that empowers Likud, so the opposition can actually win an election. I'm not terribly sure how giving the Israeli government the perfect status quo short of mass deportation is going to make it more likely that opposition wins elections and somehow that they will be likely to want to make a better deal.
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Jan 6, 2018 23:52
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Kim Jong Il posted:empower the Israeli far right
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Jan 6, 2018 23:56
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R. Mute posted:Lmao is this jabroni serious? give me my god drat secret santa gift
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Jan 7, 2018 00:00
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please knock Mom! posted:give me my god drat secret santa gift
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Jan 7, 2018 00:07
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