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Whole lot of lawyering and denial going on in this thread... As for the story getting 'better' on playthrough C - I'd argue that if A & B didn't do anything for you, then C/D probably won't either. There's no stunning reveal (that you don't see from a mile off), and the overall story is rather trite. So if you're not liking it at all, I'd say go play another game you might enjoy more.
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Jan 7, 2018 07:51
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Yeah. I like the game, but I don't think route C is suddenly going to change your mind if A didn't grab you. C is impactful specifically because of how you feel about the characters and how their lives being destroyed all around them causes them to go insane. If you can't connect with the story enough to already care about what happens in A route, then the stuff in C is meaningless. No game is for everyone, and I don't think it's fair to say the third act is where it will "get good", because the whole package is supposed to be good.
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Jan 7, 2018 07:56
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I don't think the low camera was intended to show off her panties. Normally in games the camera is pointing down much more and yeah it does feel REALLY weird in this game but in those games because the camera angle is lower most of what you see is the ground and everything way above your head that you hardly see because of the camera angle becomes wasted. I think the camera angle being lower and pointing up in this game was actually intended so you can see the sky and the towering ruins so you feel the bleak emptiness and enormity of the setting and feel small in comparison. Also, forgive me if I'm misremembering, but I think the camera angle actually shifts depending on what area you're in it's really low in the city ruins but higher in other areas.
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Jan 7, 2018 08:05
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TheMopeSquad posted:I don't think the low camera was intended to show off her panties. Normally in games the camera is pointing down much more and yeah it does feel REALLY weird in this game but in those games because the camera angle is lower most of what you see is the ground and everything way above your head that you hardly see because of the camera angle becomes wasted. I think the camera angle being lower and pointing up in this game was actually intended so you can see the sky and the towering ruins so you feel the bleak emptiness and enormity of the setting and feel small in comparison. Also, forgive me if I'm misremembering, but I think the camera angle actually shifts depending on what area you're in it's really low in the city ruins but higher in other areas. It's MGR's camera. It's pretty high up except in corridors/tight spaces, and it zooms in a bit when you're in battle.
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Jan 7, 2018 08:17
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Momomo posted:Yeah. I like the game, but I don't think route C is suddenly going to change your mind if A didn't grab you. C is impactful specifically because of how you feel about the characters and how their lives being destroyed all around them causes them to go insane. If you can't connect with the story enough to already care about what happens in A route, then the stuff in C is meaningless. If anything, I think people trying to sell Route C as gamechanging is only going to be counter productive and set someone up for something different to what it's going to be. Route C is very much more of the same for the most part, other than the story being a full continuation rather than small additions. You shouldn't feel bad for calling it a day at route B if the game isn't grabbing you, even though people who love this game really love this game. (I really love this game).
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Jan 7, 2018 15:26
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I'm looking forward to the next Yoko Taro game where he gets a more significant budget and incentive to think beyond "I just really like girls" when designing playable characters.
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Jan 7, 2018 15:42
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The thing about Yoko Taro is that he knows the reputation he has and he also knows that people expect certain things from him, so he gives them those things. He's said that his thought process behind YoRHa's gothic lolita design in general is that generally speaking, soldiers in the future are big gruff manly men, muscled and oozing machismo, so he thought "let's do the exact opposite because it's not expected", and then he added at the end of that "I also really like girls." It's most likely that both of these are true, but only one of them really explains YoRHa. You can put attractive girls in any setting. He let the facade slip and gave people what they wanted to hear. Guess which part of that interview was the most highlighted by the fandom and media? e: Here's my favourite recent overly fawning reddit post about NieR: Automata. (Not about wanting to gently caress 2B this time). More devs should use this difficulty model posted:Yoko Taro is a loving genius. Even the difficulty system in N:A is brilliant. It ranges from "I don't know what 'attack' means, I just like the story"(easy+auto-chips) to "I'm feeling suicidal"(very hard) and I love it. Some games only have normal and somewhat hard, others are in either end of the spectrum. Why can't they all just have this kind of system? It's a single player game so it hurts nobody to let people play it exactly the way they want. The difficulty curve in this game is objectively the worst Platinum have ever produced, at least in terms of traditional PG styled combat games that they've made. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jan 7, 2018 |
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Jan 7, 2018 16:25
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Yeah that's a weird one, Hard Mode is a really poorly balanced leap up in difficulty while Normal Mode is way too easy.
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Jan 7, 2018 16:39
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Putting sexy ladies in heels in your video game is the easy way out of riffing on the "big gruff manly men, muscled and oozing machismo" expectations. Given YT's ability to challenge conventions and norms among games in so much more interesting and thoughtful ways, the main character designs (2B and A2 in particular) come off as weak and underdeveloped. And if he was really looking to seriously defy conventions and expectations with YorHa's appearances, then there's zero reason to put them in Helghast-lookin' military gear when the game is starting to push the "YorHa might be bad" idea midway through. That's just on the nose and like every "cute girl is trained for combat" anime that's been done for decades. The dude can do so much better. He's clearly got a million good ideas already (Pascal is a great character!) , why not hold him to higher expectations around his weaker areas and get something even more amazing in the end?
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Jan 7, 2018 16:43
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McCracAttack posted:Hi Nier thread. I bounced off this game last Spring but seeing it pop up on a bunch of "game of the year" lists made me give it another try. So far I've gotten ending A and I'm about 3 hours into the next play-through. You're past the worst parts but the game never really gets that good in my opinion. If you're not enjoying the combat by this point just give up, it only gets worse and more tedious, and I don't think the resolution of the plot is actually terribly interesting. Grey Fox posted:Putting sexy ladies in heels in your video game is the easy way out of riffing on the "big gruff manly men, muscled and oozing machismo" expectations. Given YT's ability to challenge conventions and norms among games in so much more interesting and thoughtful ways, the main character designs (2B and A2 in particular) come off as weak and underdeveloped. Pascal is literally the only interesting character in that entire slog of a game and we didn't get nearly enough of them. I want a game about Pascal, not a pair of two dimensional animes. And yeah Automata is not at all progressive, it's just anime poo poo. Nier 1 was so good in this regard, had a great (kind of) female character who was fascinating and a total badass and Nier was just a caring dad, it was awesome. Cymbal Monkey fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Jan 7, 2018 |
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Jan 7, 2018 16:46
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I want a sitcom with Pascal and the Opera Singer sharing an empty apartment that keeps getting bombed out due to perpetual war
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Jan 7, 2018 16:50
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Grey Fox posted:The dude can do so much better. He's clearly got a million good ideas already (Pascal is a great character!) , why not hold him to higher expectations around his weaker areas and get something even more amazing in the end? I mean... can he do much better? (In regards to sexualised female characters) There's not really much in his work history that suggests he can. Your point is 100% valid, don't get me wrong, I'm not convinced he can do much better is all. I love A2 but I would have liked her exposed body parts to be more "skin fallen off unevenly and haphazardly" and less "fell off in the shape of booty shorts and stockings.  "
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Jan 7, 2018 16:52
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Pascal. Pascal is evidence he can do better. edit: oh yeah, sexualized female characters... Maybe not! Maybe he should focus elsewhere?????? edit2: it reminds me of the recent suggestion that David Cage should just make pulpy crime procedural games instead of trying to be this tryhard "what if ROBOTS were good and PEOPLE were bad" dingus. Grey Fox fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jan 7, 2018 |
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Jan 7, 2018 16:52
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Grey Fox posted:Pascal. Pascal is evidence he can do better. Pascal's not really part of what I'm getting at. He's a good example of a character appearance and personality/voice not matching up, he's not in the wheelhouse of sexy girls for hamfisted reasons.
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Jan 7, 2018 16:53
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Pascal's not really part of what I'm getting at. He's a good example of a character appearance and personality/voice not matching up, he's not in the wheelhouse of sexy girls for hamfisted reasons. This reminds me of the recent suggestion that David Cage should just make pulpy crime procedural games instead of trying to be this tryhard "what if ROBOTS were good and PEOPLE were bad" dingus. YT might benefit from taking a step back from his interpretations of "strong" women and focus on putting more complete characters like Pascal in the driver's seat.
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Jan 7, 2018 16:56
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Cymbal Monkey posted:You're past the worst parts but the game never really gets that good in my opinion. If you're not enjoying the combat by this point just give up, it only gets worse and more tedious, and I don't think the resolution of the plot is actually terribly interesting. My condolences for your bad opinions
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Jan 7, 2018 16:57
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Josuke Higashikata posted:I love A2 but I would have liked her exposed body parts to be more "skin fallen off unevenly and haphazardly" and less "fell off in the shape of booty shorts and stockings. The point of A2's design isn't necessarily that she's an old, decaying model, but that she's abandoned her nominally "human" feelings of love/sex and fully embraced being a ruthless murderer. The sexy costumes are the fetishistic link the androids have with human notions of love, while their weapons are the fetishistic link they have with human notions of hate. The fact that A2's costume is literally decaying is an important point of characterization, but I wouldn't say that making her decay would be the same thing thematically.
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Jan 7, 2018 17:00
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She is decaying though. Look closer, the only clothing she still has is the lacy bit around her stomach, the rest is artificial skin falling off and revealing the black armoured surface beneath.
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Jan 7, 2018 17:05
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Dabir posted:She is decaying though. Look closer, the only clothing she still has is the lacy bit around her stomach, the rest is artificial skin falling off and revealing the black armoured surface beneath. Hey, good catch; I hadn't actually noticed the cloth separation on her chest before.
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Jan 7, 2018 17:13
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I don't feel as though A2's abandoned her human feelings either. Rather, she's given in and feels massive survivor's guilt and her way of expressing it is by slaughtering things she feels are responsible for the death of her team in the Pearl Harbor drop. It makes sense that her clothes and flesh decaying is symbolic of a loss of love, but I feel it's more through grief than wilful abandonment of such things. As 2B's foil, part of route C is kind of showing what life for a Number 2 who sits in the middle of the two could be like with the Pascal's Village part of it, before, y'know,  .But like I said, even if you do want to portray that she's literally falling apart, you don't need to have her skin in hot pants and stockings patterns. Not that it super bothers me either, it's just a flaw I accept. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Jan 7, 2018 |
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Jan 7, 2018 17:15
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Grey Fox posted:the main character designs (2B and A2 in particular) come off as weak and underdeveloped. They're pretty obviously not underdeveloped.
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Jan 7, 2018 20:25
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Paracelsus posted:They're pretty obviously not underdeveloped. Let's do the RLM test! Describe both of them without mentioning anything they do or what they look like. Here's one for the most developed character: Pascal is a curious but naive and child-like optimist with a perhaps over-defined sense of right and wrong, whose ambitions for the future are constantly held back by their less "developed" friends but they're almost patient with them. Now, that's not amazing, but it's pretty good for a side-character. Cymbal Monkey fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Jan 7, 2018 |
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Jan 7, 2018 20:51
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Yeah next lets apply the Bechdel test.
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Jan 7, 2018 21:01
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Cymbal Monkey posted:Let's do the RLM test! Describe both of them without mentioning anything they do or what they look like. 2B is a bitter, cold, and cynical veteran with an inner core of empathy that she has to keep buried because of her work. She's well aware of her work's moral ambiguity, but the same loyalties that make her hurt so much tie her to the cycle of violence and death. A2 is an idiot murder hobo who responds to tragedy by giving up on anything more complicated than brute revenge. She is seriously So Dumb.
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Jan 7, 2018 21:08
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Cymbal Monkey posted:Let's do the RLM test! Describe both of them without mentioning anything they do or what they look like. 2B is a caring and compassionate person who is forced to bottle up her kindness because of the cycle of violence and execution she is trapped in. She has deeply conflicting feelings related to 9S, an intense mixture of obligation, guilt and possibly love, but revealing any of those feelings would conflict with her duties so she adopts an outwardly stoic and emotionless persona. Mind you I think Parascelus might have been going for a boob joke.
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Jan 7, 2018 21:17
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Reveilled posted:Mind you I think Parascelus might have been going for a boob joke.
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Jan 7, 2018 21:22
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The "RLM test" is kind of dumb anyways since it seems to presume a character's job or actions or costuming can't be a form of characterization.
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Jan 7, 2018 21:29
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Hunt11 posted:Part of the appeal of the games story is what happens to get the E ending as it speaks to a primordial part of almost every gamer. After getting the E ending I was getting random PSN messages that went "  " or "thanks!" for a few months afterwards. It was pretty 
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Jan 7, 2018 21:47
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This conversation is dumb. Stop trying to out-goon each other. Nier Automata is good. Augus fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jan 7, 2018 |
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Jan 7, 2018 21:48
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I feel like the B playthrough was a bit wasted. It didn't recast playthrough A through a different perspective on the story, and didn't really do enough on it's own either. They should have taken more time to say something interesting with the B2/A2 character instead, such as with A2's earlier appearances before B2 turns into her. On the other hand, don't play video games expecting great stories. That way lies endless disappointment.
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Jan 7, 2018 22:12
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DoNotFeedTheBear posted:I feel like the B playthrough was a bit wasted. It didn't recast playthrough A through a different perspective on the story, and didn't really do enough on it's own either. They should have taken more time to say something interesting with the B2/A2 character instead, such as with A2's earlier appearances before B2 turns into her. On the other hand, don't play video games expecting great stories. That way lies endless disappointment. It felt like a real NG+, it was the same game, but added things. Like the extra story for Simone, the inter-chapter slideshow things, and an alternative look at the parts where 9S and 2B are separated. Oh and the best mini-game in the game trying to carry a bucket of BLOOD er I mean oil.
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Jan 7, 2018 22:17
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ZiegeDame posted:The camera never goes up 2Bs skirt unless you put it there. (Or if you climb a big enough ladder.) or, you know, if you sprint at literally any point during 2B's chapters
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Jan 7, 2018 23:21
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Has this little interview ever been posted here? It's more of a world building stuff and talking about little details, nothing mindblowing, but I thought it was interesting. Spoilers for the entire game, of course.
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Jan 8, 2018 00:30
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(All curses stem from the day of the Great Calamity.)
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Jan 8, 2018 00:51
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quote:Q15. How much does it cost to produce a YoRHa type android? Haha, that seems insanely cheap for what the androids can do.
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Jan 8, 2018 04:47
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SHISHKABOB posted:Haha, that seems insanely cheap for what the androids can do. Android bodies seem to be pretty easy to build with basically magic-technology, mass production generally drives cost down, and there are shitloads of androids.
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Jan 8, 2018 05:31
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The big climax at the tower and ending C was pretty epic. I guess I would say my issue with it was that nothing really felt resolved. Like, were those hologram girls some kind of overmind controlling the machines? Did them killing each other stop all the machines on the outside? I know the goal of the game isn't to Beat The Robots, but is 9S now alone on earth with an army of robots who want to kill him? Or is that it for the robots and androids, and now the natural world can get on with things? I kind of got that vibe from the post-credits scene Since ending C focuses on a side character I figure ending D/E will feel more final. Really cool climactic encounter, though I admit I'm also not sure what the significance of the end robot boss was, beyond being just a giant robot that you fight because you fight giant robots at the end of games. maybe I'm missing something there
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Jan 8, 2018 06:20
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It sounds like you haven’t finished the endings based on how your post was worded. If that is the case, go finish the other endings. They shouldn’t take more than an hour. You don’t have to replay as much of Route C as you probably assume.
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Jan 8, 2018 07:00
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Also check your data logs because some stuff gets put in there without the game telling you.
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Jan 8, 2018 07:07
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Know Such Peace posted:It sounds like you haven’t finished the endings based on how your post was worded. If that is the case, go finish the other endings. They shouldn’t take more than an hour. You don’t have to replay as much of Route C as you probably assume. Yeah I could have made that more clear- I just got the "meaningless code" ending and unlocked chapter select. I can presumably just play the last bit over again and choose the other character, and I'll be doing that tomorrow. I kind of want to do it tonight, since staying up late to finish a game is a classic tradition, but also this was a play session that started with A2 doing side quests in Pascal's village, so there's a lot to chew on
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Jan 8, 2018 07:17
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