Comic Book Movie Megathread '18: Disney trying to buy Fox edition

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Comic Book Movie Megathread '18: Disney trying to buy Fox edition

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Jenny Angel: Oct 24, 2010; Out of Control
Hard to Regulate
Anything Goes!; Lipstick Apathy

Timby posted:

... Daredevil was written and directed by Mark Steven Johnson (and the director's cut of that movie is excellent).

Furthermore, why did Ghost Rider make that weird fist

# ? Jan 7, 2018 02:18

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 18:35

Davros1: Jul 19, 2007; You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Jenny Angel posted:

Furthermore, why did Ghost Rider make that weird fist

Who are you to question Nicholas Cage's fist choices?

# ? Jan 7, 2018 02:46

John Wick of Dogs: Mar 4, 2017; A real hellraiser

Did Ghost Rider have to be inside a vehicle to have it stay transformed, or can he Ghost Ride it?

# ? Jan 7, 2018 02:50

Neo Rasa: Mar 8, 2007; Everyone should play DUKE games.

Al Borland Corp. posted:

Did Ghost Rider have to be inside a vehicle to have it stay transformed, or can he Ghost Ride it?

In the comics since day one he summons the bike to his side whenever he wants so truly is a ghost rider.

# ? Jan 7, 2018 02:52

John Wick of Dogs: Mar 4, 2017; A real hellraiser

What about the ones that use cars instead?

# ? Jan 7, 2018 02:54

Neo Rasa: Mar 8, 2007; Everyone should play DUKE games.

Al Borland Corp. posted:

What about the ones that use cars instead?

They don't count, everyone knows ghosts can't get a class D license.

# ? Jan 7, 2018 03:04

Gonz: Dec 22, 2009; "Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?"

Neo Rasa posted:

They don't count, everyone knows ghosts can't get a class D license.

Uh, pardon me, but I have timed trialed against hundreds of ghosts in my lifetime.

# ? Jan 7, 2018 03:07

Neo Rasa: Mar 8, 2007; Everyone should play DUKE games.

Gonz posted:

Uh, pardon me, but I have timed trialed against hundreds of ghosts in my lifetime.

Street legal or not their skills are supernatural.

# ? Jan 7, 2018 03:19

Harime Nui: Apr 15, 2008; The New Insincerity

Al Borland Corp. posted:

What about the ones that use cars instead?

Robbie Reyes (the one that drives a car) has powers that come from a completely different source than the other two Ghost Riders and is more limited in what he can do. He can't just transform any vehicle he wants into a magic hellcar, it's the one specific magic car for him.

# ? Jan 7, 2018 04:37

Gatts: Jan 2, 2001; Goodnight Moon; Nap Ghost

Guys, in the comics the lineage has had horses, wooly mammoths, bears, sharks, etc. vehicles are just one possibility of what can be Ghost Ridden.

# ? Jan 7, 2018 05:41

John Wick of Dogs: Mar 4, 2017; A real hellraiser

What if you a riding a dick

# ? Jan 7, 2018 06:22

Away all Goats: Jul 5, 2005; Goose's rebellion

Flaming balls

# ? Jan 7, 2018 06:24

The MSJ: May 17, 2010

I�d like to give a Ghost Rider a piggyback ride.

# ? Jan 7, 2018 06:48

John Wick of Dogs: Mar 4, 2017; A real hellraiser

Whoa what if he like, was at the helm of a Star Destroyer

# ? Jan 7, 2018 06:49

McSpanky: Jan 16, 2005

A geologist gets the powers of Ghost Rider.

*spooky demon voice whisper* "Continental drift..."

# ? Jan 7, 2018 07:33

bushisms.txt: May 26, 2004; Scroll, then. There are other posts than these.

Seeing Kwastes MoS essay in the wild is like watching the 2001 monolith scene. Just beautiful poo poo flinging by people mad at the mention of marvel.

# ? Jan 7, 2018 07:39

Snowglobe of Doom: Mar 30, 2012; sucks to be right

Gatts posted:

Guys, in the comics the lineage has had horses, wooly mammoths, bears, sharks, etc. vehicles are just one possibility of what can be Ghost Ridden.

# ? Jan 7, 2018 08:26

The MSJ: May 17, 2010

bushisms.txt posted:

Seeing Kwastes MoS essay in the wild is like watching the 2001 monolith scene. Just beautiful poo poo flinging by people mad at the mention of marvel.

Where was it posted?

# ? Jan 7, 2018 08:46

bushisms.txt: May 26, 2004; Scroll, then. There are other posts than these.

The MSJ posted:

Where was it posted?

It's on the neogaf replacement site, resetera. Bunch of bad mis readings and pontifications that don't actually approach the essay.

a semi coherent post posted:

Metallix87 said: ↑
I don't agree at all. I think even Nolan would struggle with applying the script and it's themes to Superman.

PCPace said: ↑
I don't believe Nolan could have done the film as well as Snyder. Action set pieces the kind of which are required for a super powered fight are simply not his strength. And his comic book films often seem embarrassed to be comic book films.

I had something (way too) long written up, but long story short, I think you're both half right. Nolan couldn't have done the action as well, but would've made a better movie. Were the finished film transcribed back into a script, Nolan would've had trouble articulating its themes using that exact template -- but the finished film isn't what Nolan would've shot.

It's a movie written by 2 of the 3 writers of The Dark Knight (with the third being one of their brothers), originally intended for the director of The Dark Knight, explicitly intended to mimic the model of success of The Dark Knight. The Dark Knight is a thematically strong movie, relative to superhero movies. Chaos vs. Order, The Good vs. The Greater Good, Security vs. Liberty, the nature of criminality and the criteria for a criminal, Katie Holmes vs. Maggie Gyllenhaal, etc. The movie is chock full of that stuff, and doesn't really miss the mark in articulating any of it.

That Man of Steel has any themes of similar complexity is just the good fortune of Snyder being able to Frankenstein flesh onto the charred bones of a TDK-esque script.

The things that people most commonly rip Man of Steel for -- a sullen Superman, Pa Kent dying for our memes, Superman freaking out about killing Zod in the graveyard that was Metropolis -- are all pretty simply explained when you look at things through a TDK-esque lens. They just weren't presented well on film because themes to Snyder mean SUPERMAN IN FRONT OF JESUS STAINED GLASS and SUPERMAN ON THE CROSS POSE and DAD DIE = SAD, and so on and so forth.

I'm gonna gloss over the first two and cut straight to the third because

gently caress

OH poo poo

In the biggest miss of all

Snyder whiffed on the entire purpose of the movie, as evidenced by the reaction to the neck snap.

"You didn't think I'd risk the battle for Gotham's soul in a fist fight with you...?

The Dark Knight wasn't about a fistfight between Batman and the Joker, or even a battle between Joker's scheming and Batman's ability to overcome. It was about the clash of the two diametrically opposed philosophies manifested in the villain and protagonist. The resolution to that clash is a complex, morally murky resolution that's functional but dirty but understandable but wrong but kinda-sorta admirable.

The charred bones of Man of Steel's script have the exact same thing.

The entire first half+ of the movie is about Clark being pulled between two worlds, his love for his family and his drive to find out who/what he is, punctuated by him saying this to the people who have loved and raised him since the moment they laid eyes on him like, "You're not my real dad, dad!" and "Mom, I've found my actual mom, mom!". Hell, the marketing even did that with the two fathers approach.

(gently caress those trailers are good)

When he does find out where he's from, he gets this beautiful, benevolent message from his birth father, saying that his job is to help the people of mankind join him in the sun. Situation resolved! Clark found his origins! He found his purpose! He has positive affirmation for benevolently exercising his power from a figure of authority!

But then the Kryptonians show up, and throw all that poo poo in the dumpster.

Clark Kent's problem in the beginning of the movie is that he's being mentallyrackedbetween two worlds. Then he finds out that his purpose is to be a bridge between humanity and their better selves. And then the Kryptonians show up and tell us that they want to destroy humanity to make room for Kryptonians. But then we find out that CLARK KENT, ON A GENETIC LEVEL, IS LITERALLY THE BRIDGE TO EARTHLING AND KRYPTONIAN CIVILIZATIONS PEACEFULLY COEXISTING.

And this is Clark Kent's dream. He can get his old world, and he can get his new world, and he gets to be the key to it all. He doesn't have to be pulled any more, because he doesn't have to choose. Everyone wins! Except, the Kryptonians don't like bridges. They don't want any bridges. In fact, they want to burn all of the bridges and kill all the people who built them, because bridges are terrible.

This is the fundamental conflict in Man of Steel. Here, 'war' and 'peace' ('bridges' v. 'no bridges') are analogous to TDK's overarching conflict of 'order' vs. 'chaos'. But while these things were clearly articulated in TDK, they're completely muddled in MoS. The movie does nothing in service to delivering on this theme that is so clearly there in the script. I mean, poo poo, the point whiffs over the movie's head so hard that we get glorious lines like, "There's only one way this ends: Option A, or Option B!"

After Clark Kent snaps Zod's neck, his freakout isn't about him killing. That isn't a notion that's supported anywhere else in the film in any way, and people (justifiably) thinking that is a failure to deliver on the film's part. What is supported, by the poorly executed themes of the rest of the movie and the context of the film's creation and creators, is that Clark Kent is upset that he just killed the last Kryptonian, the only person in the universe that could make him whole and allow him to fulfill his purpose as the metaphorical (literal?) bridge. It's a Win-Lose situation for Clark -- he saves the world, but loses his personal means of victory. Which is, oh poo poo, just like the up-and-down Pyrrhic triumph of The Dark Knight.

That entire theme, the crux of the movie, of Clark being the bridge, of 'Peace vs. War', is completely whiffed by the movie. The same goes for the Sullen Superman and Pa Kent Tornader Death that I glossed over before. It's like Snyder read the script and understood the visual presentation of each scene, but didn't get the narrative ideas behind them. Actual themes are fumbled and replaced with blunt force cinematic trauma like the aforementioned CLARK KENT IN FRONT OF JESUS STAINED GLASS and JESUS POSE OUT THE SPACESHIP and DEAD DAD = SAD.

Which sounds like Snyder, and is why Nolan would've made a better movie, but Snyder gave us better live action DBZ.

This is the short version of this.

thank u, and goodnigt.

The next poster, the OP, references the essay in response to all that and killed the thread.

another one posted:

#6

I'm sorry, I haven't finished the video but so far it sounds very fanboyish. If you want me to take your opinion of how good a DC is don't start your argument by dissing the Marvel Universe. I'll keep watching see if it gets better or more balanced but so far it seems to want to argue that the film is somehow secretly genius.
What I think of TAS is that no one has made a Superman Fight as visually espectacular as Zach Syder, and henrry cavil is a perfect fit for the roll.
butt......Pa ken't ruined the movie for me as well as the killing ruined the film. Sad thing is that I don't have an issue with superman killin zod they just should have made that scene better.

yup posted:

As Addi rightfully pointed out he isn't actually saying anything. He clearly likes Man of Steel but all he does is point to something in Man of Steel and that is it, as if by explaining a facet of the film that means said facet is good. He spends time comparing the film to Donner's Superman, basically describing how MoS is different and once again that is it, describing Man of Steel and through some magic that equals Man of Steel = good. He talks about the bombardment of spectacle in the film and then just says that spectacle is in service to the characters and story without actually going into it, there is talk about the "exhaustive spectacle" of the climax and how that is thematically relevant but that doesn't mean it is good. The whole video feels like he is trying to argue with someone who didn't "understand" Man of Steel when the general argument is that the film isn't good, not that it doesn't make sense.

And his way of dancing around the Clark in Church scene is impressive in the lengths he goes to to try to make that scene not terribly, painfully on the nose(which it is).

Kaironaut said: ↑

I mean, if all you listened to was 15 minutes, I doubt you found much substance in a 45 minute video.

The first third of something shouldn't be terrible and the first third of this particular video is nearly worthless.

bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Jan 7, 2018

# ? Jan 7, 2018 09:19

josh04: Oct 19, 2008; "THE FLASH IS THE REASON
TO RACE TO THE THEATRES"
_{This title contains sponsored content.}

quote:

CLARK KENT, ON A GENETIC LEVEL, IS LITERALLY THE BRIDGE TO EARTHLING AND KRYPTONIAN CIVILIZATIONS PEACEFULLY COEXISTING.

Someone's going to be absolutely furious when they find out about the bottle city of Kandor.

# ? Jan 7, 2018 10:17

got any sevens: Feb 9, 2013; by Cyrano4747

josh04 posted:

Someone's going to be absolutely furious when they find out about the bottle city of Kandor.

Superman is both jesus and god in the sistine chapel ceiling

# ? Jan 7, 2018 10:42

Electromax: May 6, 2007

Keep us posted on what those other crappy forums are up to!!

Al Borland Corp. posted:

Did Ghost Rider have to be inside a vehicle to have it stay transformed, or can he Ghost Ride it?

I don't think many people here actually understood this question, but yes he can let Casper drive for a few seconds without the car changing back.

# ? Jan 7, 2018 12:24

RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

quote:

After Clark Kent snaps Zod's neck, his freakout isn't about him killing. That isn't a notion that's supported anywhere else in the film in any way, and people (justifiably) thinking that is a failure to deliver on the film's part. What is supported, by the poorly executed themes of the rest of the movie and the context of the film's creation and creators, is that Clark Kent is upset that he just killed the last Kryptonian, the only person in the universe that could make him whole and allow him to fulfill his purpose as the metaphorical (literal?) bridge.

hmmm

# ? Jan 7, 2018 15:54

K. Waste: Feb 27, 2014; MORAL:
To the vector belong the spoils.

Weird thoughts.

# ? Jan 7, 2018 16:13

WeedlordGoku69: Feb 12, 2015; by Cyrano4747

WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:

I may mix up directors but some things are solid: no movie that uses Drowning Pool deserves a second cut

the Daredevil soundtrack is predominantly Evanescence and has precisely one Drowning Pool song on it that I'm pretty sure isn't in the movie

I think you might be thinking of the 2004 Punisher movie (which, ironically, also has a better director's cut) there, but that might have just been the trailer?

# ? Jan 7, 2018 22:05

Harime Nui: Apr 15, 2008; The New Insincerity

It's in a fight scene I think somewhere in the first 1/3rd of the movie which also includes Daredevil snagging his cane(?) on a ceiling fan and spinning around kicking a bunch of guys in the face.

I haven't seen this movie since High School and that + a few other shots are just seared into my brain for being lol stupid

# ? Jan 7, 2018 22:17

Detective No. 27: Jun 7, 2006

I swear that there was a different song thst wasn't Evanescence playing in the training sequence during the theatrical run. I distinctly remember that they changed it to Evanescence in the DVD cut.

# ? Jan 7, 2018 22:53

Harime Nui: Apr 15, 2008; The New Insincerity

Comic Book Movie Megathread 2018: A Bunch of Thirty-Odds Vaguely Remember Old Movies

# ? Jan 7, 2018 22:55

PriorMarcus: Oct 17, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY

WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:

Comic Book Movie Megathread 2018: A Bunch of Thirty-Odds Vaguely Remember Current Movies

Fixed it.

# ? Jan 7, 2018 23:06

Burkion: May 10, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Yeah, 2004 still is not Old Movie territory. We're just now in the 80s for current Old Movies.

Don't get too ahead of yourselves.

# ? Jan 7, 2018 23:37

Snowglobe of Doom: Mar 30, 2012; sucks to be right

WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:

Comic Book Movie Megathread 2018: A Bunch of Thirty-Odds Vaguely Remember Old Movies

I'm a 40-odd :colbert:

When I was a kid it cost a nickel to see a movie and in those days nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. "Give me five bees for a quarter," you'd say. Now where were we? Oh yeah: the important thing was Superman wore his underpants on the outside, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white underpants because of the Kryptonian war. The only pants you could get was those big red ones...

# ? Jan 8, 2018 05:30

Snowman_McK: Jan 31, 2010

The Daredevil movie makes me sad. It was on track to be based on Frank Miller's pretty good run, and be all dark and grim. Bits of that survived. However, while it was late in production, Spider man opened and made a bajillion dollars. And so heaps of lovely CGI and bigger action scenes were added to make it more like Spiderman, so the end result is a loving weird movie that shifts tone constantly, before cutting to a terrible CGI Daredevil climbing a ladder.

The thing is, two years later, Batman Begins came out and made 'grounded comic book movies' a thing. Daredevil could have been that.

# ? Jan 9, 2018 02:25

hiddenriverninja: May 10, 2013; life is locomotion
keep moving
trust that you'll find your way

The thing that bothers me most about Daredevil is that it's unclear what kind of law Matt is supposed to be practicing

# ? Jan 9, 2018 02:35

sponges: Sep 15, 2011

The thing that bothers me the most about Daredevil is Ben Afflecks dye job

# ? Jan 9, 2018 02:39

Snowman_McK: Jan 31, 2010

There's also the scene where Jennifer Garner tries really hard to beat up a blind guy, unaware that he's superhuman.

Also, the film's love story kicks off with Murdock not taking no for an answer.

As uneven as the TV show is, it's depressing how much worse the other piece of Daredevil media is.

# ? Jan 9, 2018 02:56

The MSJ: May 17, 2010

hiddenriverninja posted:

The thing that bothers me most about Daredevil is that it's unclear what kind of law Matt is supposed to be practicing

Uhhh, ninja law?

# ? Jan 9, 2018 02:57

Harime Nui: Apr 15, 2008; The New Insincerity

I'd probably like it better now if I ever watched it again because I've become way more unabashed in enjoying corn as I've gotten older. BUT, IIRC the movie was too tonally discordant to even work as an extended Evanescence video. If you're gonna make melodrama work you have to commit all the way.

# ? Jan 9, 2018 03:13

NotJustANumber99: Feb 15, 2012; somehow that last av was even worse than your posting

Snowman_McK posted:

two years later, Batman Begins came out and made 'grounded comic book movies' a thing. Daredevil could have been that.

Having checked this and confirmed you are correct I still refuse to accept batman came out only two years after daredevil. They are a generation apart.

# ? Jan 9, 2018 03:36

Neo Rasa: Mar 8, 2007; Everyone should play DUKE games.

Daredevil was one of the final "90s" movies, the same way historians measure "centuries" by the occurrence of major world changing events instead of by the hard year.

# ? Jan 9, 2018 03:37

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 18:35

Snowman_McK: Jan 31, 2010

NotJustANumber99 posted:

Having checked this and confirmed you are correct I still refuse to accept batman came out only two years after daredevil. They are a generation apart.

Well, it's the difference between Nolan and Johnson. Johnson wanted to do a grounded movie, and so made a regular super hero movie a little grimmer and small scale. Nolan threw the visual rule book out and did something completely different. For a clumsy comparison, look at the difference between 'The boys in company C' and 'Full Metal Jacket' for another example of one director subverting an existing formula, and a master doing his own thing completely.

# ? Jan 9, 2018 03:52

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Comic Book Movie Megathread '18: Disney trying to buy Fox edition

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