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Al Borland Corp. posted:In the Jedi order in particular it seems humans are the vast minority, except the younglings. Are there even any humans on the council aside from Mace? Not that I recall off the top of my head, but we don't meet a lot of Jedi in the movies besides our human protagonists and the Council, most of whom I think show up to pull double duty in that AotC ring fight. However, if the younglings are the future of the rank and file -- which seems reasonable to infer, as they're being given group instruction like cadets -- I think we can assume there are a bunch of human Jedi besides the three or four the movies are focused on already out there in the order. We certainly see more human Jedi than Jedi of any other single particular species, which I think is the most instructive measure; whatever Yoda's race is comes in second with two members, I think. Yoda and the other one. Yaddle? Edit: Yaddle. Crion fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Jan 8, 2018 |
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Jan 8, 2018 01:17
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One thing that always stands out to me in TPM is Obi-Wan's very casual racism. "What's this?" when he first sees Jar Jar instead of "Who is this?". And again later when he says, "Master, why do I sense we've picked up another pathetic life form?" Since Obi-Wan is Qui-Gon's apprentice since childhood, I have to assume he picked up this manner of thought and speaking from Qui-Gon, and by extension the Jedi Order.
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Jan 8, 2018 01:19
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Shrimp or Shrimps posted:One thing that always stands out to me in TPM is Obi-Wan's very casual racism. "What's this?" when he first sees Jar Jar instead of "Who is this?". It's kind of amusing that taken on the whole, Obi-Wan spends basically his entire life unlearning everything Qui-Gon taught him until by the OT he's a devious, charismatic, silver-tongued "everything I say is technically true" trickster in Yoda's bent
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Jan 8, 2018 01:22
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Obi-Wan goes from a stilted, flat expositor to a charismatic, fun old man. The transition point is the moment McGregor gets the freedom to start doing an Alec Guinness impression.
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Jan 8, 2018 01:26
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Crion posted:Not that I recall off the top of my head, but we don't meet a lot of Jedi in the movies besides our human protagonists and the Council, most of whom I think show up to pull double duty in that AotC ring fight. However, if the younglings are the future of the rank and file -- which seems reasonable to infer, as they're being given group instruction like cadets -- I think we can assume there are a bunch of human Jedi besides the three or four the movies are focused on already out there in the order. We certainly see more human Jedi than Jedi of any other single particular species, which I think is the most instructive measure; whatever Yoda's race is comes in second with two members, I think. Yoda and the other one. Yaddle? The younglings I'll write off as production reasons there probably being a lot of time constraints on filming kids and getting them in makeup and poo poo.
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Jan 8, 2018 01:31
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Al Borland Corp. posted:The younglings I'll write off as production reasons there probably being a lot of time constraints on filming kids and getting them in makeup and poo poo. Sure. Doesn't change what the movie's showing us, though. Doesn't make the Jedi Council any less diverse if I suspect there's only one or two alien reps from each species there to sell more and different toys. Crion fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Jan 8, 2018 |
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Jan 8, 2018 01:37
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Al Borland Corp. posted:The younglings I'll write off as production reasons there probably being a lot of time constraints on filming kids and getting them in makeup and poo poo. The little people’s actor guilds finally gaining the confidence to tell George to gently caress off unless he pays better and doesn’t forget there’s a guy inside the trash can robot suit when he breaks for lunch.
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Jan 8, 2018 01:39
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I think this discussion is clarifying why I didn't like the prequels. It's supposed to be this grand tragedy, but everyone involved is kind of a petty and boring rear end in a top hat. If the Jedi order is a near-sighted and racist organization, is it really a tragedy that they fall? Maybe that's more realistic than having noble wandering knights in space, but it's not really as fun. And not really what most people are looking for out of Star Wars. That being said I do think there are a lot of interesting ideas in the prequels! But they certainly don't have the same feeling of adventure and mystery as the original trilogy does.
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Jan 8, 2018 02:31
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It's a tragedy in the same way that it's a tragedy Trump became president even though the Democrats also largely suck, but to a much lesser degree
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Jan 8, 2018 02:36
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they re not all that they're made up to be (in our minds watching the ot). At the same time i feel they do a lot of good, i think there's middel ground there between them being totally cool and good and SMG's theories.
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Jan 8, 2018 02:37
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“They blow you up today, you’ll blow them up tomorrow” is one of the more profound lines in the entire series
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Jan 8, 2018 02:59
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:By contrast, the dialogue in Episode 7 is atrocious: This dialogue seems weird in light of what TLJ reveals to us about the First Order and its structure. I remember there being talks around the time TFA came out where people theorised that the First Order was a combo of the Imperial Remnant, led by Hux, and a Dark Side cult led by Snoke. Hence why Hux can be like 'Hey, we've got this weapon, let's use it' and Snoke doesn't seem concerned at all about the Republic. But like a lot of things, TLJ went for making it as boring as possible. Snoke's preoccupation with Luke seems kind of funny in light of TLJ too. Does he have no idea what went down with him and Ren or something?
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Jan 8, 2018 04:47
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Snoke thought Luke was Ren’s opposite, not Rey. Which is why he was surprised.
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Jan 8, 2018 04:48
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Nah. The whole relationship between the Force, Snoke, Rey, Ren and Luke is incredibly confusing. Light will always rise to meet Dark and vice versa. Okay, sure, whatever. Luke exists, so Ren rises to meet him. Okay. But here's the first problem with it: Snoke also exists, and Snoke is pretty powerful, too. So surely it is Snoke:Luke and Ren:Someone Else? Which would fit with "There has been an awakening, have you felt it?"
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Jan 8, 2018 04:53
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quote:Luke exists, so Ren rises to meet him. Okay. But here's the first problem with it: Snoke also exists, and Snoke is pretty powerful, too. So surely it is Snoke:Luke and Ren:Someone Else? Which would fit with "There has been an awakening, have you felt it?" The implication is that Snoke thinks that Kylo Ren is/will be stronger than himself, but Snoke thinks he can control him anyway and not get murdered by his apprentice, because no one ever learns a lesson from the past in Star Wars. e: I bet the Republic was set up because the last galactic government also got taken over by evil space wizards who got overthrown and everyone forgot that the wise, good wizards who protected it eventually became stupid assholes who got lazy, but that won't happen this time! RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Jan 8, 2018 |
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Jan 8, 2018 05:12
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Waffles Inc. posted:I think that's an incredibly complex topic as it applies to America that this thread isn't equipped to handle what the gently caress is a LatinX?
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Jan 8, 2018 06:54
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:And all while doing so, unwittingly serve the interests and goals of a greater evil. No they don't. The Trade Federation's occupation of the planet and oppression of its people was what served Palpatine's interests and goals. The people on the planet demonstrating the value of cooperation, interpersonal bonds, and community autonomy--and kicking the Trade Federation off the planet--does nothing but hurt Palpatine. Palpatine wants to show the galaxy that the only way to solve problems like these is by electing a strongman and implementing a draconian, top-down military regime. The Gungans and the Naboo disprove that notion. It isn't enough to prevent Palpatine's eventual takeover, but that's only because the characters lose sight of what they learned in the first movie. Amidala returning to Naboo and forming an alliance with the Gungans is not what was supposed to happen. It's an "unexpected move" for her in Sidious's mind, and that's something that clearly alarms him. Sidious doesn't understand compassion, empathy, or mutually beneficial cooperation; it's his one weakness, the only thing he can't predict (and this has consequences far down the road when he fails to take into account both the Rebel alliance with the Ewoks and Vader's selfless act of sacrifice). He thinks he can still make things work to his advantage by having the Trade Federation wipe out all the opposition, thus opening the way for him to swoop in as Chancellor and save the day. But that doesn't happen. Amidala and her allies actually triumph all by themselves. The coequal and cooperative relationship between the protagonists of the film, and especially between the Gungans and the Naboo at the end of the film, is contrasted with the hierarchical and exploitative relationship running downward from the Sith, to the Neimoidians, to the Naboo, and finally to the Gungans (at the beginning of the film). Even the spatial positioning of the various players of the latter, hierarchical relationship is significant--the Sith exist as holographic phantoms emerging from out of a ghostly nowhere, the Neimoidians float in space above the planet, the Naboo live on cliffs high above the ground, and the Gungans live in the depths of the swamps. This hierarchy is even echoed during the heroes' bongo journey through the subterranean dream realm at the center of the earth: They're attacked by a succession of allegorical titans who attack and consume each other based on relations defined by size and power. The Phantom Menace is the prototype for how things are supposed to go. People are supposed to act with compassion and empathy and help each other, just like Qui-Gon helps Jar Jar avoid being run over by a tank, Jar Jar helps Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan find safe haven and transport in the Gungan city, Qui-Gon helps Anakin win his freedom and set off on a journey to become a Jedi, Anakin helps his new friends escape their marooning on Tatooine so they can petition the Senate on Coruscant, and the Gungans and Naboo ultimately help each other to take back their home (an alliance spurred by the chain of unlikely friendships precipitated by a single act of clumsiness by Jar Jar at the beginning of the movie, bringing everything full circle). The two following movies depart from this prototype with its depiction of galactic civil war, fratricide, and supreme selfishness. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Jan 8, 2018 |
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Jan 8, 2018 06:56
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gohmak posted:what the gently caress is a LatinX? 10
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Jan 8, 2018 07:12
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exquisite tea posted:I liked Willow a lot as a kid and then gradually had a less rosy opinion of it as I read more and discovered it was pretty much a direct ripoff of Lord of the Rings. I do have lots of nostalgia for those grimy 80s fantasy movies though. Labyrinth, the Dark Crystal, the Neverending Story, and Willow all had that unique blend of the fantastical and the frightening. I will sooner sit through Willow than any bloated LOTR movie.
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Jan 8, 2018 07:25
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Cnut the Great posted:The Phantom Menace is the prototype for how things are supposed to go. well, apart from everyone ignoring all the bad things happening on tatooine, i guess and it turns out ignoring all the bad things happening on tatooine is really, really responsible for things going wrong in the next two episodes!
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Jan 8, 2018 07:33
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Blisster posted:I think this discussion is clarifying why I didn't like the prequels. It's supposed to be this grand tragedy, but everyone involved is kind of a petty and boring rear end in a top hat. If the Jedi order is a near-sighted and racist organization, is it really a tragedy that they fall? Maybe that's more realistic than having noble wandering knights in space, but it's not really as fun. And not really what most people are looking for out of Star Wars. They're not racist, though. That's ridiculous. The Jedi are an explicitly multicultural organization. And being short-sighted doesn't make you evil. It's a very relatably human flaw. The choice presented to the Jedi is to either compromise their values or watch the Republic they've sworn to protect fall to the Sith. It turns out, the latter was the correct answer. But that's far from being an easy thing to see. ungulateman posted:well, apart from everyone ignoring all the bad things happening on tatooine, i guess Yes, the Republic ignores the bad things happening on Tatooine, because it has become stagnant and ineffective. Qui-Gon, on the other hand, actually does what he can to help in his own small way, the rules be damned. And none of that has anything to do with the Gungans and Naboo aligning with each other, which is an unreservedly positive thing. The Gungan/Naboo/Jedi/Anakin storyline is the prototype. The Senate, obviously, is cast in opposition to them as a corrupted institution full of squabbling delegates who are either unable or unwilling to do anything to help anyone. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Jan 8, 2018 |
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Jan 8, 2018 07:39
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Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba's cameo in Rogue One is maybe the most wack moment of Disney Star Wars.
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Jan 8, 2018 08:20
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Kart Barfunkel posted:Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba's cameo in Rogue One is maybe the most wack moment of Disney Star Wars. Goddamn they really do write a novel's worth of backstory for every single thing that appears in the movies
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Jan 8, 2018 08:30
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Kart Barfunkel posted:Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba's cameo in Rogue One is maybe the most wack moment of Disney Star Wars. There was a really cool subplot they were going to have where Dr Evazan was Experimenting with people and turning them into freak shows (google decraniated ones) but Lucasfilm has it cut because it was too dark and gruesome and they wanted child friendly.
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Jan 8, 2018 08:46
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Top Gun posted:There was a really cool subplot they were going to have where Dr Evazan was Experimenting with people and turning them into freak shows (google decraniated ones) but Lucasfilm has it cut because it was too dark and gruesome and they wanted child friendly. There’s a lot about Rogue One that I like. I think it was the closest to the look and feel of a Lucas project. But for a dumb cameo to a better movie you have to believe that these guys jump off the planet like twenty minutes after that scene happens to wind up saying the exact same thing to a character who will also save the galaxy, like, the next week.
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Jan 8, 2018 08:59
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Cnut the Great posted:Yes, the Republic ignores the bad things happening on Tatooine, because it has become stagnant and ineffective. Qui-Gon, on the other hand, actually does what he can to help in his own small way, the rules be damned. Qui-Gon doesn't help on Tatooine. He lies, cheats and steals the two things he finds of value there, then goes on his merry way.
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Jan 8, 2018 09:58
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gohmak posted:what the gently caress is a LatinX? It's a Latin person who's been buried for 100 years to run diagnostic ethics tests, who can jump off of walls
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Jan 8, 2018 12:16
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gohmak posted:what the gently caress is a LatinX? I've never seen it typed with a capital x before, but Latinx is a gender neutral combination of Latino and Latina.
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Jan 8, 2018 13:52
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Darth Vaders appearance in Rogue one is cool and good, and one of the few enjoyable parts of the movie for me. That includes the dad jokes.
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Jan 8, 2018 14:08
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The part I enjoyed was the actual seige and space battle on the death star plans. Corvette pushing one star destroyer into another was cool. All the action on the ground was very good as well.
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Jan 8, 2018 14:19
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McCloud posted:Darth Vaders appearance in Rogue one is cool and good, and one of the few enjoyable parts of the movie for me. That includes the dad jokes. It was stupid Edit: well no his castle was fun. But him being ”bad rear end” was dumb
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Jan 8, 2018 14:23
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I can't imagine why anyone would think Darth Vader was bad rear end or cool
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Jan 8, 2018 14:31
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Cnut the Great posted:They're not racist, though. That's ridiculous. The Jedi are an explicitly multicultural organization. What I don't understand with this line of thinking is that anything can happen in Star Wars. You're taking a set of circumstances as given, necessary, maybe even good: the fact of their existence is proof of it somehow. That Qui-Gon explicitly says 'we're not here to free the slaves' in a series that begins with a farm-boy bringing about total nuclear disarmament should reveal something to you surely? He doesn't even try! Saying 'well this is just the way it is, how could it possibly change' is a prime example of what Mark Fisher called capitalist realism: people depend on it even when they're talking about, of all things, Star Wars.
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Jan 8, 2018 14:47
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Al Borland Corp. posted:The part I enjoyed was the actual seige and space battle on the death star plans. Corvette pushing one star destroyer into another was cool. All the action on the ground was very good as well. The ground fighting was a lot like a Battlefront campaign. There's a bunch of spawning points arranged around the central command centre, and they have to fight their way to the middle to get to it.
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Jan 8, 2018 15:13
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I love anytime you got characters climbing up a shaft of some kind
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Jan 8, 2018 15:17
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Cnut the Great posted:The Phantom Menace is the prototype for how things are supposed to go. Lucas cuts almost-immediately from the victory parade to a terrorist attack. Cnut the Great posted:They're not racist, though. That's ridiculous. The Jedi are an explicitly multicultural organization. Multiculturalism is not antiracism. Multiculturalism is white supremacy. The Republic is racist on a systemic level, and the Jedis are sworn to serve the Republic. This is why you frequently see droids and nonhumans insulting Jedis in the films, but you never see a human criticize them. Jedis are cops. Only the fundamentalist Jedis - Quigon and his master, Dooku - consider the Jedi teachings more important than being cops. This is why Quigon is cynical about the Republic and makes a point of being ‘politically incorrect’ (i.e. the entire Anakin plot in Episode 1), while Dooku cuts ties with the Republic altogether (i.e. the entire plot of Episode 2).
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Jan 8, 2018 17:15
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The fundamentalist Jedi (Anakin included) prove to be Sheev's greatest allies in his quest for galactic domination.
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Jan 8, 2018 17:17
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sassassin posted:The fundamentalist Jedi (Anakin included) prove to be Sheev's greatest allies in his quest for galactic domination. So are the moderate, secular Jedi. The point of the prequel films is that literally everyone is Sheev’s ally.
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Jan 8, 2018 17:36
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:So are the moderate, secular Jedi. Not Captain Panaka. He did nothing wrong
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Jan 8, 2018 17:40
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Everyone is an ally. But they are his greatest allies.
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Jan 8, 2018 17:40
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