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The first step in his strategy is to put people from production to research and back again trying to get to technology tier 2 before the empire plan I don't see how that's possible if i take time to focus on influence to convert someone. I wouldn't even have the influence to get a level 2 empire plan after that.
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Jan 9, 2018 05:46
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He's using a custom faction that doesn't even have conversion; he's getting those sky-high starts from custom traits.
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Jan 9, 2018 06:05
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And he is probably changing the start condition to crank Anomalies up to 11. It's seriously nuts when you put them on high.
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Jan 9, 2018 06:06
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Okay so is getting to tier 2 by turn 20 not a reasonable goal. I missed it by three turns once.
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Jan 9, 2018 06:50
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Cultists have a harder time doing it than most factions, maybe even all other factions, since they can't use the 'settle early/Salt the Earth' trick. I have pulled it off with vanilla cult with default start settings, but it required both a good bit of luck and a careful build order. If memory serves, my start had either two or three good anomalies, and I ended up going Founder's Monument->Public Library for the first two buildings as well as spending a good bit of dust rushing something (maybe Geomantic Labs, maybe another district, maybe even the library). Delaying Mill Foundry turned out to be important due to how little time there is. By the time it pays for itself, you've hit something like turn 15 and don't have anything super-important left to build, so it's better to prioritize the things that give influence and science directly. I think that I also converted a village relatively early by leveling up Andom with exploration, then assigning him to the city and putting everyone on influence (the first village is so cheap that it can justify itself and the 10% empire plan cost increase if it's on the right terrain).
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Jan 9, 2018 07:51
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Getting to era 2 by the first empire plan as cultists doesn't sound like something you can reliably do. Never tried it myself, but you'd probably have to go for the mineralogy center immediately after mill or something. It's something usually done with Ardent Mages, Mezari or Forgotten, I believe. You could probably do it as other factions but the point is to get -33% building cost and -25% buyout cost empire plans, so you also need 120 influence. Getting both is probably impossible for most factions. Drakkens should also get at least the -33% production cost for buildings too, but they don't have to get to era 2 for that so it's easy. Cultists probably have the influence side covered since the starting hero has influence boost and they might not want the buyout cost early, but I honestly don't know if it's worth it to focus on science that early. That's a lot of production to sink into it. Plus you're not converting anything if you dump all of your influence to getting tier 2 empire plans.
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Jan 9, 2018 08:00
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He's using a custom faction, so presumably he's bought some +FIDS traits. Custom factions are not balanced in the slightest, so he's basically cheating, if there ever was a way. His 'necessary' start has 41 FIDS (30+ before faction traits is more sane), so he's defo save scumming. Acutally, yea, here it is: -Food Efficient (to get growth without dedicating population) -Industry Efficient -Landscapist (to further improve anomalies, which are generally near your starting location) and why not, -Cellulose Mutation (for cheap districts) -Endless Excavation (to make ruins into better tiles) Well no loving poo poo he gets 40+ FIDS. I'd take his advice with a huge grain of salt, since it basically boils down to "Do the science faction trick of Teir2 for the first empire plan", but also with food and industry faction's perks.
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Jan 9, 2018 09:37
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Staltran posted:It's something usually done with Ardent Mages, Mezari or Forgotten, I believe. You could probably do it as other factions but the point is to get -33% building cost and -25% buyout cost empire plans, so you also need 120 influence. Getting both is probably impossible for most factions. Drakkens should also get at least the -33% production cost for buildings too, but they don't have to get to era 2 for that so it's easy. How on Earth do you do that? I was playing a Vaulters game this weekend and that definitely never occurred to me as possible. Although, despite loving 4X games, I can never get my head around min-maxing like that.
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Jan 9, 2018 10:03
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Stabbatical posted:How on Earth do you do that? I was playing a Vaulters game this weekend and that definitely never occurred to me as possible. Although, despite loving 4X games, I can never get my head around min-maxing like that. Protip: pick Morgawr, who specialize in both Dust and Influence.  Speaking of fishmen, is anyone proficient with them itt? I wonder: - whether strategic/luxury resource extraction is still worth it, or perfectly skippable tech, given all the sea fortress production? - what's the proper viligance to garrisoning your cities? I tend to skimp on it extremely because AI is braindead and I like playing with little boats.
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Jan 9, 2018 10:59
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Garrosining is mandatory for anyone that has a Governor; they gain xp/turn as leading an army, but nothing for building poo poo. ES2 fixed that. Otherwise, I only build garrisons when I'm expecting front-line fights that they'll participate in. In both cases I create a new unit called "cannon fodder" who's stripped naked, and I can retrofit them into a real unit if I have to.
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Jan 9, 2018 11:22
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Stabbatical posted:How on Earth do you do that? There are a great many tricks to use. Ardent Mages use science pillars, Forgotten take advantage of the dust bonus on their Founder's Memorial and Mezari have a science boost on their starting hero, although plain Vaulters generally get by ok even without that by virtue of with the terrain bias on their starts and their factional science trait. Almost everyone wants to explore aggressively in hopes of finding dust to spend on a building, get a Public Library very early and get a settler to build a temporary city in a good science location or a region with pacified villages to help with science and influence. There's a good bit of juggling workers to make things take one less turn and careful planning of the first tech or two and build order as well. If you limit yourself to the building cost reduction plan and skip the (much less important) buyout cost reduction, every faction can manage it in a significant portion of their games. In fact, I just started a Cultist game to make sure it was about as hard to do as I remembered and was able to hit Era 2 with two turns to spare on the very first try, although it had a weird mix of good and bad luck that balanced out as much better suited to the tech rush than the average start for the cult. Serephina posted:Garrosining is mandatory for anyone that has a Governor; they gain xp/turn as leading an army, but nothing for building poo poo. Nope. Governors get a portion of the industry cost of anything their city builds as xp, just like in ES2. It's enough to outstrip the xp from a garrison in most cases and is many times higher in a city with an industrial focus. A garrison for xp is often still worth it, but as much because of how easy it is to spare the industry and upkeep by some point in the mid-game than the moderate benefits: the difference between spending 100 turns in a city with a six-unit garrison and a city with no units is two levels or less on the sort of hero that's been around for that long.
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Jan 9, 2018 11:53
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Yeah, I remember one quick levelling scheme for late game is planting a hero in a new city where you're about to do mass building buyout.
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Jan 9, 2018 11:59
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I... am so very wrong about that, but sure I was right. And glad I'm wrong actually, that's been annoying me for so long.
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Jan 9, 2018 12:06
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HundredBears posted:Nope. Governors get a portion of the industry cost of anything their city builds as xp, just like in ES2. It's enough to outstrip the xp from a garrison in most cases and is many times higher in a city with an industrial focus. A garrison for xp is often still worth it, but as much because of how easy it is to spare the industry and upkeep by some point in the mid-game than the moderate benefits: the difference between spending 100 turns in a city with a six-unit garrison and a city with no units is two levels or less on the sort of hero that's been around for that long. Of course, the time between getting meritocratic promotion and the game ending is probably less than 100 turns on normal speed. Still probably worthwhile, especially if it's a border city. Just build units with a tier 1 weapon and not armor/accessories and retrofit later if you end up needing them. Speaking of which: Never buy properly equipped units with dust, it costs more than buying them with nothing and retrofitting them. Unless you value the extra hero exp on the governor more than the dust, I guess. Honestly I basically never build real units after the early game these days unless I'm in a war or intend to be very soon, no need to spend production now instead of dust later. Unless I'm building them to sell to the market.
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Jan 9, 2018 12:34
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While we're on the topic, what's the formula for dust buyout? And does it benefit from the empire plans' -industry% for units/buildings?
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Jan 9, 2018 12:37
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It does benefit from industry cost reductions, which is part of why the -33% empire plan is so powerful. According to the wiki, the formula is (remaining industry cost)^1.2. Which makes dust a bit better on faster game speeds, but the exponent is small enough that the difference isn't that big. Unless I'm screwing something up, the ratio of the ratios of dust buyout cost and industry cost on fast and endless speeds is 4^0.2, or about 1.32. So while buying with dust is less efficient on endless, it's probably not a huge deal. Who the hell plays on anything slower than normal anyway? Also, looking at the retrofit cost formula, it's apparently 0.75*(industry cost)^1.1. I'm assuming the industry cost means the difference between the cost of the models. So I guess if you have at least than 25% unit cost reduction, it's actually cheaper to buy the units directly after all, and maybe for just -20% as well with sufficiently expensive units. Huh.
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Jan 9, 2018 13:06
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I think you've mis-read the wiki, the retrofit is (.75*industry)^1.1, ie the 25% reduction is before the exponent, not after. So yea, retrofit always! I also always thought it was a linear buyout, guess that explains a lot. But yea how dumb is it that we have to check a wiki for this instead of it being explained literally ANYWHERE ingame (or in-manual. Manuals! lol) edit: Reading more, things might change again if you have/are Wind Walkers. I wonder how those bonus' stack. Serephina fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Jan 10, 2018 |
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Jan 10, 2018 11:56
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Yeah, when playing industry-heavy there comes a point where your science output just can't keep up with your monster factory so it's either stockpiles from now on or an army of darkness.
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Jan 10, 2018 12:17
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Lichtenstein posted:Yeah, when playing industry-heavy there comes a point where your science output just can't keep up with your monster factory so it's either stockpiles from now on or an army of darkness.
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Jan 10, 2018 15:02
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Double Post 14 hours apart: What do I do for end-tier Strategics when I have expanded to 8 Regions in 100 turns and none of them, or any adjacent regions, have Mithrite or Hyperium? I'm pretty annoyed but I figure I should ask before doing anything dumb.
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Jan 11, 2018 05:02
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Buy them on the market. The AI will only trade if it has an excessive surplus (and only a fraction of what they have), so basically you have to put some pops on dust and buy out the market. It's enough for quest-related things, but for mass-equipping armies you just might have to miss out. edit: Ooh! If you research endless mechanisms (tier4? tech) all the ruins come back up, and they can spit out 15ish strategics randomly. It's kind of a stretch, but a lot of ruin rewards scale strongly with era progress.
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Jan 11, 2018 05:06
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Serephina posted:Buy them on the market. The AI will only trade if it has an excessive surplus (and only a fraction of what they have), so basically you have to put some pops on dust and buy out the market. It's enough for quest-related things, but for mass-equipping armies you just might have to miss out.
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Jan 11, 2018 05:16
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I've never bothered with Endless Mechanisms (at that point in the game I really don't feel like checking dozens of ruins again), but if you do IIRC you should probabably wait for era 5 before actually getting all the ruins again for better rewards. Other than that, you can buy what's on the market, which isn't much most of the time, conquer regions that do have them, or beat them up until they give all/most of their hyperium/mithrite for a truce (you can also give them their cities back in the truce if you really don't want them, which probably helps with getting all of the resources too).
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Jan 11, 2018 11:12
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There isnt a mod or an item on the steam workshop that lets you edit out temple/unspoiled ruins or lets you build a district on top of them, is there? Even a Pearl-locked option that only lets you have one per city would really do the trick for me. I think I'm just too OCD about my city placement but it sure bugs me when I cant place a city because of a ruin. Also I really wish a hex could exploit over regional boundaries, but then would lose it if a city inside that region's boundary would exploit said hex. I think its kinda silly and arbitrary. It also sucks when you dont get ocean access with a region simply because of the way a line was drawn (like, the Ocean is RIGHT THERE, but because of the way the boundary was drawn you cant exploit the sea tile and thus I assume cant build boats even if you have a coastal hex). AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Jan 13, 2018 |
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Jan 13, 2018 14:28
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https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=945048590
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Jan 13, 2018 16:44
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What is the general opinion of ES2's combat system? I tend to think it's a nice middle-ground between "if you don't micro your army gently caress you" of Endless Legend and "rock-paper-scissors cards" of Endless Space 1. I kind of hope they adapt it for land battles for EL2, and have little formations of dudes Total War style. Edit: Also do we have a Discord for Endless multiplayer?
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Jan 13, 2018 17:32
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You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. Somehow I missed that or ordered the steam workshop and missed it when I first looked. Thank you.
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Jan 13, 2018 18:22
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 I....I think I'm going to do it. (it should be 10 Dust, too, but I have a short-term event lowering each tile by 2 right now) edit: This "Center of Influence Facility" is some bullshit. 
AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jan 13, 2018 |
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Jan 13, 2018 21:40
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I'm doing my first Vodyani play, and it seems Righteous Fury is completely broken. The law has been active since start of game, and Religion hasn't fallen out of favor of being the lead party once. Some googling shows that this has been a bug since launch, so I'm wondering if anyone is aware of a possible fix, workaround, or solution? Couldn't find any mods specific to it on workshop.
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Jan 15, 2018 21:55
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Looks like we got an hour long presentation coming up on Endless Day, the 18th. What are you hoping for? I'd like a full sized expansion for Endless Space 2, and perhaps an announcement for Endless Legend 2: now with Terraforming!
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Jan 15, 2018 22:16
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i'd like endless space 2 to be enjoyable
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Jan 15, 2018 22:43
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maybe the expansion could add some kind of "artificial intelligence" that would simulate having other players in the game even while playing singleplayer
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Jan 15, 2018 22:45
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they teased something called end of the voyage on twitter
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Jan 15, 2018 22:55
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onesixtwo posted:I'm doing my first Vodyani play, and it seems Righteous Fury is completely broken. The law has been active since start of game, and Religion hasn't fallen out of favor of being the lead party once. Some googling shows that this has been a bug since launch, so I'm wondering if anyone is aware of a possible fix, workaround, or solution? Couldn't find any mods specific to it on workshop. That's working as intended, as far as I can tell from your description. Vodyani naturally favor religious politics, and whichever party is in the lead will permanently have its default law active. The default laws are all extremely powerful and game-changing. Unless there's something in particular about Righteous Fury that's "broken" that you haven't described.
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Jan 15, 2018 23:24
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Oh poo poo, let me actually describe what ‘completely broken’ means, my bad. Yeah, it is active since start of game, and should be.. the broken part is it doesn’t work as the description says. I’m in a Cold War with Cravers, but I cannot invade. The description fo the Law states I should be able to invade during Cold War (Righteous Fury), but the option to invade is grey’d out unless I officially ‘Declare War.’ I’ve tried in both UE, and Cravers and the only thing I can do is shoot their ships in space, but no invasion until a Wardec.
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Jan 15, 2018 23:40
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Helion posted:Looks like we got an hour long presentation coming up on Endless Day, the 18th. What are you hoping for? I'm hoping it's a full expansion also, which would mean mechanics updates/changes. Hopefully not just "Here's a Vaulter hero and the 1.1.15 patch". When I looked on their forums I saw a dev mention it's too early to be looking at Endless Legend 2, so I think that's a year or so off right now, at the least.
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Jan 15, 2018 23:45
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I hope it's more than a patch, since the presentation runs an hour.
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Jan 16, 2018 02:59
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Anyone know if, in EL, the hero 'Ranged' class skill "Perfectly Balanced" is bugged? My ranged units, including the hero, cannot shoot any farther than before. I have had the skill for several turns so I dont think its any sort of delay in it showing up? edit: Oh, apparently I get the range bonus but there is nothing in the battle UI that tells me this 
AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Jan 16, 2018 |
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Jan 16, 2018 03:56
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Well, made a new game, turn 5 I cannot invade Horatio despite the ‘Righteous Fury’ law being active. That is a really lovely bug, and completely explains why the Vodyani AI is absolutely brain dead 10/10 times. Completely broken law mechanics are awful to uncover. Next Vodyani game I’m going to just have to focus Military laws and ignore religion beyond the +essence law. Boooooo.
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Jan 17, 2018 20:19
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What in the world, I just noticed this...thing that they cal la region when I was burning down the rest of Orange's empire:
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Jan 17, 2018 23:56
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