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I should check out Zelazny again. Last time this came up I had a go at Creatures of Light and Darkness and it didn't really engage me. Maybe I'll try Isle of the Dead or Dilvar the Damned this time.
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Jan 8, 2018 14:17
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ToxicFrog posted:I should check out Zelazny again. Last time this came up I had a go at Creatures of Light and Darkness and it didn't really engage me. Maybe I'll try Isle of the Dead or Dilvar the Damned this time. Dilvish the Damned is basically Zelazny's take on Fritz Leiber style pulp fantasy. They're great little stories for what they are but they're closer to the Amber end of the "wrote this for cash" spectrum. Zelazny is probably a good author to check out of the library because there's so much book to book stylistic variation. Pohl posted:When Zelazny died it was the only time I've ever experienced anything like real grief from a celebrity/author dying. Gaiman based the funeral of Dream in Sandman on Zelazny's funeral. Gives a little closure :asingletear:
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Jan 8, 2018 14:25
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ToxicFrog posted:MST was originally published in the late 80s. The Eye of the World was still two years away, and A Game of Thrones, eight (and was in fact directly inspired by The Dragonbone Chair). At the time, stuff like "I am not entirely ripping off Tolkien and/or my D&D campaign" and "the ancient prophecy that the protagonists are following turns out to be instructions for building a human-destroying superweapon, because to the people who wrote it, humans were the all-devouring evil that needed to be stopped at any cost" was in fact new and interesting in epic doorstopper fantasy -- a subgenre that MST is largely responsible for kicking off. Yeah, I can definitely see the influence on GRRM and Bakker: probably this is the earliest decent-quality use of Tolkien style secondary world that is so clearly Europe But Not Quite that would come to form the basis for both these authors’ work, even before Guy Kay got super into that sort of stuff (IIRC Fionavar doesn’t really play it up). It’s only in contrast to the edginess of these guys that Williams seems particularly innocent. And I did enjoy the books and find them reasonably interesting even if I rag on them a bit. I think the least appealing quality of it is really Simon as a protagonist. I actually do buy his transformation from a dumbass scullion into a dumbass sworn sword and it’s much slyer and better handling of inexplicably important schmuck protagonist than say Eragon; but he’s still so very dumb throughout. So what I don’t especially buy is his happy ending. If Williams really is writing sequels as per that blog post, I’m looking forward to finding out that Simon basically ruined everything because running an empire you pretty much usurped with no power base is tough. Selachian posted:Speaking of Tad Williams and derivative, you should check out his very first book, Tailchaser's Song, which is an unholy mash-up of Watership Down (only with feral cats instead of rabbits) and Tolkien. Eh sure, why not.
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Jan 8, 2018 15:51
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I’ve never wanted a book to end as badly as I wanted To Green Angel Tower to end. For whatever that’s worth. I have semi fond memories of the first book, which I read pre-GRRM but post Robert Jordan. I don’t think Williams did anything better than Jordan, which may be why Dragonbone Chair has fallen off the map a bit.
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Jan 8, 2018 17:09
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uberkeyzer posted:I don’t think Williams did anything better than Jordan He finished 
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Jan 8, 2018 17:11
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uberkeyzer posted:I’ve never wanted a book to end as badly as I wanted To Green Angel Tower to end. For whatever that’s worth. I have semi fond memories of the first book, which I read pre-GRRM but post Robert Jordan. I don’t think Williams did anything better than Jordan, which may be why Dragonbone Chair has fallen off the map a bit. It's kindof amazing how much the American fantasy field changed in the 1990's. If you look at the jacket quotes for Eye of the World, it's Anne McAffrey and Piers Anthony.
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Jan 8, 2018 17:29
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's kindof amazing how much the American fantasy field changed in the 1990's. If you look at the jacket quotes for Eye of the World, it's Anne McAffrey and Piers Anthony. I'm going to go back and re-read all of Zelazny. I haven't read much lately, so this should be fun. It sucks though, because when I read him I always want to start writing. I suppressed that urge a long time ago.
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Jan 9, 2018 07:11
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Pohl posted:I'm going to go back and re-read all of Zelazny. I haven't read much lately, so this should be fun. It sucks though, because when I read him I always want to start writing. I suppressed that urge a long time ago. There is no downside to writing and you should give it a go!
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Jan 9, 2018 11:36
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There's the risk a friend you send it to will show it to the girls at school and you will be laughed at and shoved in a locker Do it
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Jan 9, 2018 11:39
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Fifth Season is 99p in the UK Kindle Daily Deal.
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Jan 9, 2018 12:03
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So the ending Echopraxia sure is uh.... something.None of the plot made a lick of sense and It felt like he was just throwing a constant stream of weird science at the page (corrupted blood! Dancing viruses! Cancer brained god scientists!)instead more focused dissection of consciousness that he had in Blindsight. I saw a review that compared it to Lovecraft, and that's the only way I can really understand the plot - there are unknowable intelligences doing something sinister, and to understand it would drive you mad! Mad I say!
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Jan 9, 2018 12:38
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Strom Cuzewon posted:So the ending Echopraxia sure is uh.... something.None of the plot made a lick of sense and It felt like he was just throwing a constant stream of weird science at the page (corrupted blood! Dancing viruses! Cancer brained god scientists!)instead more focused dissection of consciousness that he had in Blindsight. Basically "Ha ha ha, gently caress you Homo sapiens".
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Jan 9, 2018 13:58
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Groke posted:Basically "Ha ha ha, gently caress you Homo sapiens". Also "gently caress you reader". Blindsight had the feel of a Feynman type guy, who has all these ideas about science and philosophy and wants to share them with you, Echopraxia feels more like it wants to intimidate you with how much more than you it knows - it throws stuff out there without the bbarest bit of explanation and then hurries on to the next idea - it never even explains what Echopraxia is, just drops it into the plot without warning. Blindsight left a lot of its sci-fi conciets for the reader to deduce (ConSensus and subtitles are never explained, you learn what they are by seeing them used) but it never kept the reader so in the dark about what's actually going on. Theres a bit in the middle where Bruks is trying to figure out how the Bicameral hive works, and his train of logic goes from "oh there's something weird with the pigmentation of their eyes" straight to "aha! They've given themselves brain cancer!" which is quite a big leap. Luckily I saw an article in the paper about how eye cancer messes with the reflexivity of the retina (some kid got diagnosed after a camera flash gave him red eye in only one eye) so I was just about able to puzzle out the gist. But i can't help but feel sci-fi should be about the ideas ("what if we built a hive mind by lashing brains together?") rather than demanding the reader to brush on some oncology just to follow the dialogue. It's a very fine line to tread, it's great when it works, but it's dreadful when it doesn't. There are bits like this where it became almost incomprehensible, but then bits where he talks about a "quantum callosum" which is just a slight tickle of an idea, but is wonderfully evocative. But most of the time it feels like he taken the core ideas of Blindsight and pushed them further than I can suspend my disbelief - Sarasti's gradual reprogramming of Siri is just on the right side of believable, but Valerie's induction of the crucifix glitch through body language and religious imagery might as well be magic. An engineered mob of multiple personalities is a cool sci-fi gimmick, but then Valerie spontaneously generates a cavalcade of sub-personilities to have seizures for her, and I'm left flailing my arms and whining how that's not how brains work
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Jan 9, 2018 15:14
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Strom Cuzewon posted:So the ending Echopraxia sure is uh.... something.None of the plot made a lick of sense and It felt like he was just throwing a constant stream of weird science at the page (corrupted blood! Dancing viruses! Cancer brained god scientists!)instead more focused dissection of consciousness that he had in Blindsight. Echopraxia was outright described in the closing pages of Blindsight. The best in hindsight thing about Echopraxia for me was Siri Keaton's "normal human friend" from the 1st book being the Doctor Mengele monster/lynch-pin fuckup responsible for unleashing safety-interlocks-disabled vampires back into the world, the solar station transmissions go two ways reveal was my 2nd favorite thing in Echopraxia.
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Jan 9, 2018 16:49
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NoNostalgia4Grover posted:Echopraxia was outright described in the closing pages of Blindsight. Can you clue me in to the significance of your spoiler? It's been ages since I've read Echopraxia last and I've been as confused as most people each time. Seconding that it's much less focused than some of his other work. And man is that one character who speaks in run-ons ever annoying.
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Jan 9, 2018 17:27
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NoNostalgia4Grover posted:Echopraxia was outright described in the closing pages of Blindsight. You sure? I'm looking at my kindle search page and the word Echopraxia never appears in Blindsight. The vampire revolt was really cleverly done, it's like that puzzle of the island of perfect logicians, but with murderous geniuses instead.
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Jan 9, 2018 17:36
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There's a few AMAs with Watts on Reddit that help explain some of his thoughts too.
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Jan 9, 2018 17:37
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Strom Cuzewon posted:You sure? I'm looking at my kindle search page and the word Echopraxia never appears in Blindsight. Echopraxia the book plot, I meant. The whole vampire outbreak + humanity being wiped out. Sorry I dropped 2 words in my sentence, was more focused on the fixing the formatting of my two spoiler things in the next paragraph of that post. Rough Lobster posted:Can you clue me in to the significance of your spoiler? It's been ages since I've read Echopraxia last and I've been as confused as most people each time. Seconding that it's much less focused than some of his other work. And man is that one character who speaks in run-ons ever annoying. Which spoiler, the 1st one or the 2nd? The 1st one dude straight up Mengele mad scientist experimented with his vampires test subjects until the vamp test subjects adapted a mental hack to the vampire's weakness to right angles that made vampires epileptic out. And then karmic payback happened. The 2nd one was the alien object entity(RORSHACH) that Siri Keaton's expedition made 1st contact with contaminated the Icarus quantum communications back to earth & colonized the Icarus sun station.
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Jan 9, 2018 18:35
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Can't find the space opera thread, so posting this here: got some advance TPBs of this one: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/318374/the-glory-of-the-empress-by-sean-danker/9780399587085/ they're free, same as always, if you're in the lower 48 and you want one, pm me
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Jan 9, 2018 19:00
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Danknificent posted:Can't find the space opera thread, so posting this here: got some advance TPBs of this one: The Space Opera thread has been archived.
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Jan 9, 2018 22:49
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:From what I could tell with a quick google, there seems to be some family issues going on with the rights-holders so rights to electronic versions seem to be locked up and unavailable for [legal, official] publication. A lot of pre-internet-era SF&F contracts didn't include electronic publishing rights at all. I think the CIA still own the film rights too, although someone is planning a TV adaptation soon. I hope they can do it justice, it is one of my favourite books ever.
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Jan 10, 2018 01:06
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Pohl posted:I'm going to go back and re-read all of Zelazny. I haven't read much lately, so this should be fun. It sucks though, because when I read him I always want to start writing. I suppressed that urge a long time ago. Don't forget to jump into Roger Zelanzy's Alien Speedway FWIW i see most of Zelanzy's books on the kindle store for both .com and .com.au it may be an Australia licencing thing
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Jan 10, 2018 01:33
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Also "gently caress you reader". Blindsight had the feel of a Feynman type guy, who has all these ideas about science and philosophy and wants to share them with you, Echopraxia feels more like it wants to intimidate you with how much more than you it knows - it throws stuff out there without the bbarest bit of explanation and then hurries on to the next idea - it never even explains what Echopraxia is, just drops it into the plot without warning. Blindsight left a lot of its sci-fi conciets for the reader to deduce (ConSensus and subtitles are never explained, you learn what they are by seeing them used) but it never kept the reader so in the dark about what's actually going on. I recall reading a reddit Ask Me Anything with Watts where he acted completely surprised that any portion of Echopraxia would be considered confusing or unclear. It didn't give me hope for his next work. Tiny Timbs fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Jan 10, 2018 |
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Jan 10, 2018 01:37
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I remember hearing that watts was slowly dying of a mystery illness a couple of years ago, whatever happened with that?
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Jan 10, 2018 01:53
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andrew smash posted:I remember hearing that watts was slowly dying of a mystery illness a couple of years ago, whatever happened with that? Someone in the Horror thread said something about this, I guess they met him at a convention not long ago and he said he got better? I may be mis-remembering, but in any case Watts is still around and kickin'.
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Jan 10, 2018 01:59
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He hosed his leg up pretty bad; I think he suspected he had a flesh-eating virus at one point.
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Jan 10, 2018 02:57
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Ornamented Death posted:He hosed his leg up pretty bad; I think he suspected he had a flesh-eating virus at one point. Wow I chose a really unfortunate idiom in my last post if that's the case
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Jan 10, 2018 02:59
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No, that was a different thing. He had necrotizing fasciitis (“flesh eating bacteria”) of his leg a few years ago, but recovered with treatment, and then there was some other weird ailment he contracted but i can’t remember the details
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Jan 10, 2018 03:40
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Ornamented Death posted:He hosed his leg up pretty bad; I think he suspected he had a flesh-eating virus at one point. He did have a flesh-eating virus, which resulted in a hole in his leg “the size of Australia”, if I recall correctly. There’s a rather spectacular picture of this He also THEN had a mystery out-of-nowhere super illness that wasn’t anything the doctors could find but just kind of went away on it’s own. Peter Watts does not have good medical luck. Arcsech fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Jan 10, 2018 |
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Jan 10, 2018 03:40
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Arcsech posted:Peter Watts does not have good medical luck. Particularly if you include being beaten up by border guards for no reason, yeah.
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Jan 10, 2018 04:35
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NoNostalgia4Grover posted:The 2nd one was the alien object entity(RORSHACH) that Siri Keaton's expedition made 1st contact with contaminated the Icarus quantum communications back to earth & colonized the Icarus sun station. while i agree that's what happened, was there anything recognisable about what came back to the station that tied it to rorschach or the scramblers? i remember being confused about a seeming lack of correspondence.
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Jan 10, 2018 04:57
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branedotorg posted:Don't forget to jump into Roger Zelanzy's Alien Speedway I have pretty good physical collection of his work. I sent you a pm.
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Jan 10, 2018 05:51
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Neurosis posted:while i agree that's what happened, was there anything recognisable about what came back to the station that tied it to rorschach or the scramblers? i remember being confused about a seeming lack of correspondence. No, not really. You could read it as some kind of "optimal agent to send back through a quantum transmission to cause havoc at the far end and therefore fairly anonymous insofar as being purely functional" but there was nothing about it that seemed specific to the scramblers, except for the weird Siri Keeton appearance. Whose significance I never felt like I really understood.
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Jan 10, 2018 07:10
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General Battuta posted:No, not really. You could read it as some kind of "optimal agent to send back through a quantum transmission to cause havoc at the far end and therefore fairly anonymous insofar as being purely functional" but there was nothing about it that seemed specific to the scramblers, except for the weird Siri Keeton appearance. Whose significance I never felt like I really understood. thought so. i didn't get the siri thing either unless he really is coming back and it's a sequel hook, but i wouldn't have thought watts would be the type to do that kinda thing without present plans to write another novel. what i found especially weird was iirc some of the narration made it seem like portia was conscious.
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Jan 10, 2018 11:20
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Neurosis posted:while i agree that's what happened, was there anything recognisable about what came back to the station that tied it to rorschach or the scramblers? i remember being confused about a seeming lack of correspondence. Read Echopraxia as a library book, so my memory may be off. The solar station walls were covered in rorschach material leading to one character commenting how the sensors stated that the solar station's room dimensions were slightly off & I could have sworn baby scramblers appeared after the alien-walls did a trash-compactor attack. The humans who survived did the sensible thing + got the gently caress away unlike any horror scifi movie ever made, which was a nice change of pace. MODS: Feel free to spoiler any part of the above, figured why bother, since no one else scrambled their mentions of the entity name + the beasties from Blindsight. Watts chat: Watts melts down a lot online and in real life, because he needs attention to stay alive & keep feeling internet famous. My favorite Watts thing is still his forever-ban-from-entering the USA*, nature's undeclared war vs Watts with various super-germs is the 2nd favorite-Watts tidbit. *Something about Watts being a rampant inciting dick on the US side of a Canada-US border crossing while helping a friend with a house move(?), and then physical assaults from both sides (Watts vs border patrol) happened. quantumfoam fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jan 10, 2018 |
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Jan 10, 2018 15:36
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General Battuta posted:No, not really. You could read it as some kind of "optimal agent to send back through a quantum transmission to cause havoc at the far end and therefore fairly anonymous insofar as being purely functional" but there was nothing about it that seemed specific to the scramblers, except for the weird Siri Keeton appearance. Whose significance I never felt like I really understood. I honestly never felt like Portia really worked for me, didn’t Sarasti or the Captain in Blindsight specifically say they had the Icarus stream off-axis from Rorschach to prevent exactly that from happening? Did they just gently caress it up? Obviously without Portia there is no second book but it seemed off to me.
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Jan 10, 2018 20:05
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I find it funny: the more I read Amber, the less fun I'm having as Corwin and Bleys' armies get decimated and it's so much like the Chain of Dogs from Malazan - not as awful, but it's that same kind of misery and I don't like it. ...And as I read more of Shadow and Claw the more I love it? The sequence where Severin went to the library was delicious (very Gormenghast!) and I'm intrigued to see how his relationship with this noble lady is going to proceed. It feels like it's unfolding more and more into a complex world that I want to learn more about...whereas Amber went from beautiful and fascinating to "and then another hundred men died because two idiots decided they wanted to be become King" Still reading both, though, as the writing quality is still solid and I want to at least ride out the first Amber novel, see how I feel about continuing.
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Jan 10, 2018 22:02
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The chain of dogs is one of my favorite parts of any book, but yeah it's sad as gently caress.
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Jan 10, 2018 22:32
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StrixNebulosa posted:I find it funny: the more I read Amber, the less fun I'm having as Corwin and Bleys' armies get decimated and it's so much like the Chain of Dogs from Malazan - not as awful, but it's that same kind of misery and I don't like it. I forget where it comes up in Amber but one of the brothers, at one point, speculates about whether the soldiers they raise in shadow are even ‘real’ given how the amberites find / create them which is grim as gently caress
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Jan 11, 2018 00:26
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andrew smash posted:I forget where it comes up in Amber but one of the brothers, at one point, speculates about whether the soldiers they raise in shadow are even ‘real’ given how the amberites find / create them which is grim as gently caress Yeah - Corwin speculated as well, but decided that they had real deaths, at least, which was. Even more heartbreaking, given what happened to all of them.
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Jan 11, 2018 00:29
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