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His argument was dumb. And lol at "not being able to remember" whether he was playing normal or hard in this of all games. After that comment, I don't think the guy even played it.
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Jan 9, 2018 15:51
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I never expected Automata to be a thrilling tough action game ever since they mentioned making accessibility a priority in prerelease interviews. The gameplay is honestly just a cool-looking, fluid framework for experiencing the story content and I’m fine with that.
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Jan 9, 2018 16:09
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I was expecting the game to be harder to beat. Usually these kind of games has some way to call you a huge pussy if you use something that the devs didnt intend a person looking for a challenge to use. Devil may cry for example ruins your score if you use healing items. Basically even if you ignore autoheal youll be overpowered with a lot of the chips and the game doesent mock you for it. Leveling too much also makes you too powerful. I CANT MAKE THIS GAME DIFFICULT EVEN IF I WANTED TO.
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Jan 9, 2018 16:28
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Dabir posted:His argument was dumb. And lol at "not being able to remember" whether he was playing normal or hard in this of all games. After that comment, I don't think the guy even played it. I played it over launch week and never touched it again. I'm sorry I can't tell you my graphics settings either, but thanks for your critique, I'll mull over all this in detail. 
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Jan 9, 2018 17:13
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One of my favorite memories of this game was playing the entire intro at like 50% speed because I didn't realize the game had decided to use my laptops integrated chip rather than the actual graphics card. I honestly thought "maybe it's supposed to play like this..." until I got to the space station and couldn't take it anymore. It was pretty funny though.
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Jan 9, 2018 17:15
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Cymbal Monkey posted:I played it over launch week and never touched it again. I'm sorry I can't tell you my graphics settings either, but thanks for your critique, I'll mull over all this in detail. Wow that's sad nursing a grudge over a video game since (checks) early March 2017.
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Jan 9, 2018 17:19
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Baka-nin posted:Wow that's sad nursing a grudge over a video game since (checks) early March 2017. Wait, there's a statute of limitations on having an opinion on a game now?
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Jan 9, 2018 17:49
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Natural 20 posted:Wait, there's a statute of limitations on having an opinion on a game now? It's six months but I'm a renegade.
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Jan 9, 2018 17:50
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Saagonsa posted:Nier Automata is an ARPG, not a character action game. I have no idea why people compare it's combat to the combat in actual character action games Because it was made by Platinum Games, a company entirely known for making really good character action games. This fact was even advertised before the game came out.
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Jan 9, 2018 19:04
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In fairness, they never said this is character action but they also did nothing to dispel people's thoughts that it was Bayonetta 3 (before Bayo 3 was announced).
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Jan 9, 2018 19:15
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The fact that it was Platinum was a huge part of the marketing for Automata, which is understandable because Platinum has several of the greatest action games ever under their belts. What I don't understand is how Platinum managed to get so much of Automata so wrong when they've demonstrated in Bayo and Rising that they know how not to get those things wrong. Automata wasn't an attempt to shake up their formula or reinvent the wheel as much as it was Platinum apparently forgetting how to do it as evidenced by the fact that it doesn't so much go in a new direction from Bayo or Rising as much as just doing everything worse. It's one thing to take a risk and make a mistake, it's another to stick to what you're good at and gently caress it up.
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Jan 9, 2018 19:27
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Automata's combat is fine, I imagine any problems are just the budget
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Jan 9, 2018 19:29
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Arist posted:Automata's combat is fine, I imagine any problems are just the budget They could have literally re-skinned Bayo and it would have been an order of magnitude better. Or even simply copying over the two-dodge limit from Bayo where if you try to dodge too much you stumble in order to discourage rampant spamming of the most broken mechanic in any game in recent memory. That one tiny change would force a more engaged and thoughtful approach to combat where you have to dodge into safety and consider how you approach a hoard rather than just have an iframe "on" button that you can stop hitting when you feel like actually doing combat again. Cymbal Monkey fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jan 9, 2018 |
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Jan 9, 2018 19:30
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It's an ARPG. If every fight was a Bayonetta arena on a 40h+ long game it would be fatiguing as hell. I do wish the bosses were a bit harder, but most of the issues are connected to it having a traditional level up system. You're either very underpowered or too overpowered, but doing the actual fighting feels good, IMHO. Again, I feel like people that played the original Nier should've known what to expect.
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Jan 9, 2018 19:33
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why are you like this
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Jan 9, 2018 19:33
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More like reskinned Revengeance, which was already on the PC when this game was announced. 2B even had some of Raiden's animations in the initial trailer (though I forget if she still has them). Above all things I was very disappointed that at no point does 2B put a sword on her heel and do a barrage of kicks.
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Jan 9, 2018 19:33
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I imagine they added the broken mechanics because they wanted to make broken bosses like Hegel. I didn't really miss the sense of accomplishment from winning a difficult fight tbh but I've often enjoyed games with broken combat systems (FF8 being the most memorably broken for me).
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Jan 9, 2018 19:35
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Momomo posted:More like reskinned Revengeance, which was already on the PC when this game was announced. 2B even had some of Raiden's animations in the initial trailer (though I forget if she still has them). Above all things I was very disappointed that at no point does 2B put a sword on her heel and do a barrage of kicks. 2B does have her pole-dancing attack so I think it's a fair trade.
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Jan 9, 2018 19:37
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It's a shame Automata allows you to just chug items and button-mash to win, a simplistic strategy that definitely, absolutely did not get me through Bayonetta. Hopefully in the future Platinum Games will take more pointers from their well-known top notch character action games like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Star Fox Guard.
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Jan 9, 2018 19:55
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grancheater posted:It's a shame Automata allows you to just chug items and button-mash to win, a simplistic strategy that definitely, absolutely did not get me through Bayonetta. Hopefully in the future Platinum Games will take more pointers from their well-known top notch character action games like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Star Fox Guard. I know you're taking the piss but I found myself making massive adjustments to the play style I was using and the combos I was using for different combinations of enemies. I died a fair amount in Bayo and had to engage with it way more than I did in Nier, where I stopped dying the second I equipped healing chips.
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Jan 9, 2018 20:02
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You can stop dying in Bayonetta the second you play on easy with the automatic combo accessory or whatever it was too
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Jan 9, 2018 20:04
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Iretep posted:I was expecting the game to be harder to beat. Usually these kind of games has some way to call you a huge pussy if you use something that the devs didnt intend a person looking for a challenge to use. Devil may cry for example ruins your score if you use healing items. Basically even if you ignore autoheal youll be overpowered with a lot of the chips and the game doesent mock you for it. Leveling too much also makes you too powerful. I CANT MAKE THIS GAME DIFFICULT EVEN IF I WANTED TO. I get the impression that it was a top-down decision for this game to not have some sort of meta "score" system that encourages you to do well in battle. The fact that it's such a staple in Platinum games and that it would be such an easy gameplay/thematic fit (oh no, I feel good getting high scores but doing that makes the robots cry and scream in terror) makes it kind of stand out to me that it's not in the game. I get the impression that they probably wanted to go with a combat system that doesn't force "good" or "bad" judgments onto the player, because a lot of the game's tension is around the ambiguity of your actions.
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Jan 9, 2018 21:00
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Keli posted:Is it soft porn for weebs, or is it actually playable? At the beginning of the game, I think the combat is reasonably enjoyable. But you become so powerful so quickly once you start amassing and fusing chips that it eventually just turns into mindless spam light attack (+ endless dodge) every fight. 'Difficult' fights are just massive grinds. There's no sense of danger. I didn't die a single time during my entire playthrough (on Hard) - an I'm not an action game pro. Also, because of that, the many different weapons they give you are largely indistinguishable - so there's no compelling reason to change from the starting weapons. The fast travel mechanism should have been introduced earlier as well. Also, it is 100% soft porn for weebs.
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Jan 9, 2018 21:02
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Cymbal Monkey posted:The fact that it was Platinum was a huge part of the marketing for Automata, which is understandable because Platinum has several of the greatest action games ever under their belts. What I don't understand is how Platinum managed to get so much of Automata so wrong when they've demonstrated in Bayo and Rising that they know how not to get those things wrong. Automata wasn't an attempt to shake up their formula or reinvent the wheel as much as it was Platinum apparently forgetting how to do it as evidenced by the fact that it doesn't so much go in a new direction from Bayo or Rising as much as just doing everything worse. It's one thing to take a risk and make a mistake, it's another to stick to what you're good at and gently caress it up. The fact that they have done differently than this previously suggests to me that the combat system in N:A was a deliberate choice probably made in the name of accessibility to storygamers. I quite like the feel of combat, excessively generous dodging and healing mechanics aside, but I find that it can get a bit hard to tell exactly where I am on the screen when things zoom out. Most of my deaths when I tried playing on hard, before I got frustrated and switched down to normal, were largely because I couldn't immediately tell which of the two protagonist characters on screen was me.
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Jan 9, 2018 21:09
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DoNotFeedTheBear posted:At the beginning of the game, I think the combat is reasonably enjoyable. But you become so powerful so quickly once you start amassing and fusing chips that it eventually just turns into mindless spam light attack (+ endless dodge) every fight. 'Difficult' fights are just massive grinds. There's no sense of danger. I didn't die a single time during my entire playthrough (on Hard) - an I'm not an action game pro. Also, because of that, the many different weapons they give you are largely indistinguishable - so there's no compelling reason to change from the starting weapons. The fast travel mechanism should have been introduced earlier as well. Thank christ I'm not the only person who sees this. I died a few times in the prologue but yeah, once you get access to chips the game just melts before you, and bosses become tedious grinds. 2house2fly posted:The fact that they have done differently than this previously suggests to me that the combat system in N:A was a deliberate choice probably made in the name of accessibility to storygamers. I quite like the feel of combat, excessively generous dodging and healing mechanics aside, but I find that it can get a bit hard to tell exactly where I am on the screen when things zoom out. Most of my deaths when I tried playing on hard, before I got frustrated and switched down to normal, were largely because I couldn't immediately tell which of the two protagonist characters on screen was me. I totally buy this, and have no issue with this, but I feel like this is the whole point of difficulty settings. Consider MGS3 and 4, where they have trivialised easy modes for people who just wanna see the story. That's fine, I don't care, in fact I think Fromsoft hosed up when they didn't give DS2 and easy mode for this reason. I personally like to be punished a bit and I know that isn't for everyone, and I also like to find strange ways to exploit a game's mechanics, like when I hosed up sphere grid stuff in FFX to make what's her face fast lady my heavy hitter and wrecked everything in sight that way, but Automata's upgrade system is so simple and broken that you can stumble rear end-backwards into cracking the game in two in an hour. It has some great ideas, like making HUD elements removable and having that free up slots for more useful stuff, but it also seemed to have no one checking to see if certain common chips had insane synergistic effects that made the combat fall apart. Cymbal Monkey fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Jan 9, 2018 |
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Jan 9, 2018 21:09
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Cymbal Monkey posted:Thank christ I'm not the only person who sees this. I died a few times in the prologue but yeah, once you get access to chips the game just melts before you, and bosses become tedious grinds. I think that's the consensus about the game.
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Jan 9, 2018 21:12
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Cymbal Monkey posted:That you're made to play twice as artificial padding. I'm not saying it's the best implementation but this is basically Taro's signature move: presenting a story in its entirely and then introducing details later that change your perspective on it. At least Nier 2 let you play a different character (I liked the hacking minigame so this was a plus for me) instead of literally making you play the same game again like in Nier 1.
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Jan 9, 2018 22:01
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Momomo posted:Because it was made by Platinum Games, a company entirely known for making really good character action games. This fact was even advertised before the game came out. I really don't see why that means it should be judged by the standards of a genre that it doesn't belong to
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Jan 9, 2018 22:22
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I can't wait for the insanely salty poster that threadshits for 9 months because the game has shoot'em'up and bullet hell elements but doesn't live up to his touhou or ikaruga standards The chip system owns and i want to see it in other games, including the parts where i can take off UI or audio notifications using it. RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Jan 9, 2018 |
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Jan 9, 2018 22:29
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Know Such Peace posted:Is there anything positive about Automata's progression system? It's such a glaringly obvious flaw with the game that I'm surprised they never attempted to fix it with a patch. I'd say that the chip system is really good, if somewhat unbalanced when you get it going. The customization options are varied, the way it interacts with the setting is neat, the way you can unequip UI elements to fit in just a little more power is fun... It's about as engaging as the main leveling system is dull.
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Jan 9, 2018 22:30
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Saagonsa posted:I really don't see why that means it should be judged by the standards of a genre that it doesn't belong to When they advertise the game as being x, people play it and find out that it is not in fact x but is in fact y, I think criticizing it is fine. Figuring out that the game is not in fact a character action game is a realization, not something that's obvious from the start.
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Jan 9, 2018 22:34
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Saagonsa posted:I really don't see why that means it should be judged by the standards of a genre that it doesn't belong to Yeah it tells more about how Platinum have a big PR issue in being expected to deliver very homogenous products than it does about Nier
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Jan 9, 2018 22:42
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Momomo posted:When they advertise the game as being x, people play it and find out that it is not in fact x but is in fact y, I think criticizing it is fine. Figuring out that the game is not in fact a character action game is a realization, not something that's obvious from the start. When did they ever advertise it as a character action game specifically instead of a Yoko Taro game by Platinum?
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Jan 9, 2018 22:46
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Sakurazuka posted:When did they ever advertise it as a character action game specifically instead of a Yoko Taro game by Platinum? I think Nina has the right of it, honestly. Nina posted:It tells more about how Platinum have a big PR issue in being expected to deliver very homogenous products than it does about Nier
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Jan 9, 2018 22:48
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Cymbal Monkey posted:That you're made to play twice as artificial padding. Doing it twice made 2B and 9S feel closer somehow.
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Jan 9, 2018 22:49
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Nina posted:Yeah it tells more about how Platinum have a big PR issue in being expected to deliver very homogenous products than it does about Nier
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Jan 9, 2018 22:51
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As someone who loves his fair share of Platinum's catalog AND its variety, it's always really funny to me when some fans just completely blend out stuff like W101, The Legend of Korra or that Mutants in Manhattan game as if that studio never tries different poo poo (including poo poo that doesn't work) and anything that isn't Bayonetta is Not A Real Platinum Game.
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Jan 9, 2018 22:59
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chiasaur11 posted:I'd say that the chip system is really good, if somewhat unbalanced when you get it going. The customization options are varied, the way it interacts with the setting is neat, the way you can unequip UI elements to fit in just a little more power is fun... It is fun to play around with, which is why it's disappointing they didn't design the game around it at all. They make every other customisation element (pods, pod abilities, weapons) irrelevant. As it stands the gameplay would be better if they just took it out entirely. Also, it shouldn't have had the random cost aspect. Hikaki posted:I'm not saying it's the best implementation but this is basically Taro's signature move: presenting a story in its entirely and then introducing details later that change your perspective on it. At least Nier 2 let you play a different character (I liked the hacking minigame so this was a plus for me) instead of literally making you play the same game again like in Nier 1. In what way did the 9S playthrough change your perspective of the 2B one?
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Jan 9, 2018 23:13
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Saagonsa posted:Nier Automata is an ARPG, not a character action game. I have no idea why people compare it's combat to the combat in actual character action games because it's the same combat but not as good, and only partly because of the RPG elements
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Jan 9, 2018 23:18
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You thought he was dead weight but it turns out he did everything.
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Jan 9, 2018 23:18
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